Hansard: NCOP: Committee of Chairpersons Meeting

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 30 Nov 2011

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Minutes

START OF DAY

THURSDAY, 1 DECEMBER 2011

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

____________________________

The Council met at 14:01 in the Old Assembly Chamber.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

NOTICES OF MOTION: Mr A G MATILA


START OF DAY

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr A G MATILA: Chair, I hereby give notice that I intend moving on the next sitting day of the Council, I shall move:

That the Council-

(1) notes that 1 December marks World Aids Day, which is dedicated to raising awareness of the impact of the Aids pandemic on communities across the globe, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa;

(2) further notes with utmost dismay the political stance taken and the vicious statements made by the Leader of the DA and Premier of the Western Cape, Helen Zille, to use public funds to establish a competition to award prize money of up to R50 000 to people who test for HIV and Aids, irrespective of whether they take the results or not;

(3) acknowledges that this competition is one of the desperate attempts of the DA to exploit the material conditions facing our people and undermine progress that our nation is making in the fight against the spread of HIV and Aids and the stigma and discrimination facing those who dare disclose their status; and

(4) takes this opportunity to call on the DA to stop this misguided political grandstanding on an issue that continues to impact adversely upon many communities and households, and which has left hundreds of homes without parents and orphaned large numbers children.

Mr D V BLOEM


Mr A G MATILA

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I give notice that I intend moving on the next sitting day of the Council, on behalf of Cope:

That the Council-

(1) debates the massive corruption that has been exposed regarding the Crime Intelligence Unit's secret service account;

(2) notes the breakthrough in the investigation of there being more than R30 million of missing funds from the secret service account since 2007;

(3) further notes the missing funds were allegedly used to buy houses, vehicles and other luxury items for senior police officials living the high life;

(4) acknowledges the alleged 250 posts created by Solly Lazarus and former crime intelligence boss Richard Mdluli without consulting with their human resources and advertising these posts without mentioning the posts as SA Police Service posts;

(5) notes that I express my concern and disgust about this development in a unit that is supposed to infiltrate and identify corrupt syndicates;

(6) notes that this, once again, strengthens the perception that many of us are having that corruption is the order of the day ...

Ms M G BOROTO: Chairperson, on a point of order: I am worried because the hon member is quoting issues that are being dealt with by the police and that are sub judice.Also he is alleging corruption of which we are not sure, as only the courts can tell us. Please, Chair.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no. If the issues are before the courts, then they are sub judice and treated as such. Members should not then be raising those issues. But if the police are still investigating them then they are not yet sub judice issues, because they are not before the courts. I'll check with the Table quickly. Just give me a chance, Mr Bloem. Let me check with the Table quickly just to ascertain that.

I have been given advice. I am correct. However, it would appear that some of the issues might be before the courts. Mr Bloem, would you mind - nice and honourable request - giving us a copy of your motion so that we can check whether parts of your motion contain issues that are not before the courts. In that case, we would allow you to move that motion on the next sitting day of the Council.

Mr D V BLOEM: I will definitely do that, Chairperson. I will.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay. Thank you very much.

Mr D V BLOEM: But I am very sure that what I read today was on television last night about these criminal acts by people in crime intelligence. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We just want to make sure that our Rules are well followed.

Mr D V BLOEM: I fully agree. This member does not know. [Laughter.]

Mr D B FELDMAN


Mr D V BLOEM

Mr D B FELDMAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I intend moving on the next sitting day of the Council, on behalf of Cope, the following:

That the Council-

(1)debates the continuation of government with the launching of the narrow national strategic plan to combat the spread of HIV and Aids;

(2)notes that the plan is projected to double in expenditure from R16 billion to R32 billion by 2030;

(3)further notes the failure by both the government and SA National Aids Council, Sanac, to take into consideration the withdrawal of funds by the Global Fund to Fight Aids, Tuberculosis and Malaria;

(4)acknowledges the reliance of the plans on vaccines and gels that are not available to prevent HIV; and

(5)also notes the importance and urgent need for government and Sanac to include all South Africans who are sexually active as the target population in the prevention strategies.

Mr D A WORTH / AZM MNGUNI/VM / END OF TAKE

Mr D B FELDMAN

Mr D A WORTH: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I intend moving on the next sitting day of the Council, on behalf of the DA, the following:

That the Council-

(1) notes that the Free State youth yesterday marched to the office of the premier, Mr Ace Magashule, demanding better economic empowerment opportunities from the government in that they demanded sustainable youth co-operatives linked to public expenditure in every municipality, such interventions having been proposed to the government for many years but with few improvements having been noted;

(2) notes that it appears that businesses linked to powerful officials and politicians get most government business;

(3) further notes that it is apparent that access to necessary reports and documentation in the Free State about specific matters remains a problem, especially when trying to get forensic audit reports about investigations not being tabled, whilst investigations into other municipalities have resulted in merely executive summaries being released;

(4) also notes that the Free State finance and public accounts committee has a list of 11 outstanding reports, which were requested at meetings from departments, but were never delivered to the committee;

(5) moves therefore that if government is serious about rooting out corruption and receiving clean audit reports, it has to be accountable and transparent about how revenue that is intended to improve the lives of all our citizens is being utilised; and

(6) takes note of the fact that citizens, especially the youth, are becoming frustrated with political connectiveness that is obstructing any growth in South Africa.

Mr F ADAMS

Mr D A WORTH

Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I intend moving the following:

That the Council-

(1) notes the allegations by Western Cape provincial leader Mr Theuns Botha and DA federal executive chairperson Mr James Selfe of an illegal ANC plot to bribe DA ward councillors to give up their seats and to stand for the ANC in the by-elections;

(2) also notes similar allegations that Mr Botha was the main architect in the DA, not only in bribing ANC and ID MPs and councillors to cross the floor to the DA when floor-crossing was still place, but also allegedly in having bribed DA councillors who they feared would leave the DA, and that lucrative amounts were allegedly paid by the DA ...

The CHAIRPESON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order, Mr Adams. Mr Faber?

Mr W F FABER: Mr Chair, I would just also like to mention that ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no. You were rising on a point of order. What is your point of order?

Mr W F FABER: Yes, my point of order is that it might also be sub judice, as Mr Botha has made a case against ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is it before court?

Mr W F FABER: No, not yet.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: If it's not before court, it is not sub judice. Continue, hon member.

Mr F ADAMS:

(3) further notes allegations that evidence and affidavits exist that prove these alleged illegal practices of Mr Botha and the DA and that some of these documents and affidavits were submitted to the police some time ago, and that some were to be submitted to the former Erasmus commission, but that the Erasmus commission was dissolved before it could start with this work; and

(4) expresses grave concern about these allegations that threaten not only our democracy, but also clean governance, and calls on all persons in possession of any evidence or affidavits relating to these alleged illegal practices to submit them to the police for investigation, and further calls on the police to investigate all the allegations and, if necessary, to pursue charges against those involved.

Mrs R N RASMENI


Mr F ADAMS

Mrs R N RASMENI: Hon Chair, my motion was raised by the hon Matila.

Mr M J R DE VILLERS /NN / /GC/ END OF TAKE

Mrs R N RASMENI

Afrikaans:

Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Voorsitter, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek, by die volgende sitting van die Raad, namens die DA sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad-

(1)kennis neem dat die aanstelling van oudregter Willem Heath as hoof van die Spesiale Ondersoekeenheid in die Presidensie uit verskeie oorde afkeur en veroordeling ontvang het;

(2)verder kennis neem dat oudregter Willem Heath se aanstelling selfs die etiket van 'n Zumafikasie van 'n onafhanklike instelling om die nek gehang was;

(3)erken dat hierdie kritiek en oordeel geregverdig word omdat oudregter Willem Heath voor 2009 'n raadgewer vir President Jacob Zuma was in die regsaksie van korrupsieklagtes teen hom;

(4)ook erken dat dit blyk asof President Jacob Zuma, die ANC en die binnekring deurdagte planne en aksies in plek sit om inligting wat die ANC en ander binnekring leiers en rolspelers mag skaad, te stop en in die kiem te smoor; en

(5)versoek word om grondwetlike en verantwoordbare demokrasie te debatteer.

Mr D JOSEPH


Mr M J R DE VILLIERS

Mr D JOSEPH: Hon Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council, I intend moving, on behalf of the DA, the following:

That the Council-

(1)notes that the DA has received a mandate to govern the Western Cape and that we must work hard to protect our hard-earned democracy;

(2)further notes that ongoing internal fights in the ANC are the biggest obstacles to service delivery and that the ruling party must start governing itself;

(3)agrees that South Africa has a democratic system through which political parties receive a mandate from voters to govern, and that the alleged offer of positions and financial packages for political control in municipalities is generating mistrust amongst the voters; and

(4)further notes that buyovers and walkovers are illegal.

Mr S H PLAATJIE


Mr D JOSEPH

Mr S H PLAATJIE: Chair, I hereby give notice on behalf of Cope that, on the next sitting day of the Council, I shall move:

That the Council-

(1)debates the poor state of higher education teaching at South Africa's universities and technikons;

(2)notes the call by the University of Free State's Vice-Chancellor, Prof Jonathan Jansen, that teaching in higher education has become pessimistic because lecturers are no longer excited about teaching; and

(3)recognises the urgent need for adequate intervention in tertiary institutions in order for future generations to become successful in their endeavours.

Mnr H B GROENEWALD

Mr S H PLAATJIE

Afrikaans:

Mnr H B GROENEWALD: Voorsitter, namens die DA gee ek hiermee kennis dat ek, in die volgende sitting van die Raad, sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad-

(1)'n debat sal voer oor die feit dat 'n derde van die land se inwoners – naamlik 15,1 miljoen mense – van toelaes afhanklik is en dat inligting verklaar dat die bedrag tot die betaling van toelaes in 2013 gaan styg tot R132 miljard;

(2)kennis neem dat 3 miljoen kinders in Kwazulu-Natal alleen van staatstoelae afhanklik is;

(3)verder kennis neem dat hierdie statistiek dit vir die regering moeilik maak om maatskaplike toelaes volhoubaar te bestuur omdat die ekonomie nie volhoubaar groei nie; en

(4)versoek dat daar vir Suid-Afrikaanse burgers geleenthede geskep moet word om vir hulself te sorg in 'n oopgeleentheidsgedrewe samelewing.

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: Mr M C MAINE / TH (Eng&Afr)//nvs(Eng&Afr) / END OF TAKE


NOTICES OF MOTION: Mr H B GROENEWALD

RECORD NUMBER OF SOUTH AFRICANS SUBMITTED TAX RETURNS

(Draft Resolution)

Mr M C MAINE: Hon Chair, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that a record five million South Africans submitted their returns between July and November 2011, and that the SA Revenue Service reported that it is on track to collect R728 billion from taxpayers, which amounts to a 23% increase on last year, but that 750 000 returns are still outstanding;

(2) further notes that this is as a result of the innovative introduction of the E-filing system by National Treasury;

(3) acknowledges that tax collection is what actually enables our fiscal system to work because the money that the government spends comes largely from taxes that are collected from South Africans and makes it possible for government to deliver services to our people; and

(4) therefore wants to commend all South Africans who have complied with their obligations to submit their tax returns, and in particular congratulates the SA Revenue Service on the excellent service they have provided to ensure a smooth and efficient process for all our people.

Motion agreed to in accordance with rule 65 of the Constitution.

Mr T A MASHAMAITE


Mr M C MAINE

TEENAGE PREGNANCY AS A RESULT OF RAPE

(Draft Resolution)

Mr T A MASHAMAITE: Hon Chair, I hereby move without notice that:

The Council-

(1) notes with concern the findings of a study by the Limpopo Department of Social Development that the majority of teenage mothers in Limpopo fall pregnant after having been raped;

(2) further notes that the study was commissioned to examine factors behind the high rate of teenage pregnancy in the province;

(3) notes that this study revealed that more than a quarter of cases were statutory rape and that more than half were explicit rape, with statutory rape being significantly high in the Waterberg and Mopani areas while explicit rape is the highest in Sekhukhune and Vhembe;

(4) acknowledges notes that legislation prohibits sex with a person under the age of 16 and that it is a criminal offence for anyone to have sex with a child under the age of 16 and that such a person can be charged with statutory rape, even if sex with a child under 16 had been consensual; and

(5) therefore notes with concern the further findings of the study that violence against women in South Africa is on the rise, and calls on the police and the National Prosecuting Authority to leave no stone unturned to ensure that the perpetrators meet with the full force of the law and that they are not released on bail.

Motion agreed to in accordance with rule 65 of the Constitution.

Mr D B FELDMAN


Mr T A MASHAMAITE

APPOINTMENT OF ADVOCATE SIMELANE

(Draft Resolution)

Mr D B FELDMAN: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on behalf of Cope that:

The Council-

(1) notes the continual and inconsistent judgments made by President Zuma, noting today's ruling by the Supreme Court regarding the invalid appointment of ... [Interjections.] This is the truth. ... of the national Director of Public Prosecutions, Mr Simelane, by President Zuma in November 2009;

(2) further notes the poor leadership that the President showed in appointing Mr Simelane, in the first place ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, hon member! Hon Chaane?

Mr T E CHAANE: Chair, I rise on a point of order. In terms of information we receive from the same source, I think it has also been reported that the matter is now being referred to the Constitutional Court. So it is still before court. Therefore the member should reserve his enjoyment.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I will give a ruling just now. Hon Bloem, are you rising on another matter? [Inaudible.] ... okay. My ruling is that the matter is before court; that it is sub judice. There has been an appeal which I have just seen on television now.

Mr D V BLOEM: Hon Chairperson, I just want clarity: Are you saying that the President or the ANC have filed an appeal?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: If I am not mistaken, it is the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development.

Mr D V BLOEM: ... that has filed an appeal? So, in other words, you are saying that it's not a judgment.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, the judgment has been given. But the judgment is being appealed. We can check to verify that.

Mr D V BLOEM: Thank you very much, Chair. I respect you because you are the Chair; there are lots of other chairs here. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Let us verify, Mr Bloem. Let us check. I will always come back to the House if I am mistaken. You can trust me as the Chair in that regard. Table staff, could you verify that for me? If possible, we can give a ruling before we adjourn this House this afternoon. Could somebody, in the meantime, check in his or her office please.

Ms B V MNCUBE / SPB / END OF TAKE

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP

SUDDEN DEATH OF KENNETH BATYI

(Draft Resolution)

Ms B V MNCUBE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes and expresses its shock and sadness at the sudden death of ANC member of the Gauteng provincial legislature, the hon Kenneth Batyi;

(2) further notes that-

(a) the hon Batyi was born and raised in the Eastern Cape in the 1960s and finished his schooling at the Cala High School in 1984, then moved to Daveyton, Ekurhuleni, in search of work;

(b) prompted by his experiences of living in a shack, in 1988 he became a leader of the Daveyton Civic Association, going on to become Deputy Chairperson of the township's arm of the SA National Civic Association until 1998;

(c) in 1994 he went to the Gauteng legislature and joined the social development, health, sport, recreation, arts and culture committees;

(d) in 1996 he was elected as a Daveyton ANC branch chairperson;

(e) following the 2004 elections, he was seconded to the Department of Social Development as Deputy Director, on a seven-month assignment and returned to the legislature in December 2004; and

(3) dips its revolutionary banner in honour of this dedicated ANC cadre and conveys its heartfelt condolences to the Batyi family and the entire ANC family in these trying times – "inkosi mazizole, izichaka zizolile" – the words he said last Monday at the legislature.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mrs B L ABRAHAMS

Ms B V MNCUBE

Mrs B L ABRAHAMS: Hon Chairperson, the hon Mncube has covered me. I would also like to give my condolences to the family. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.

Mr T H M MOFOKENG


Mrs B L ABRAHAMS

EASTERN CAPE POLICE ARREST MORE THAN A THOUSAND PEOPLE

(Draft Resolution)

Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Chair, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes that the Eastern Cape police have arrested more than a thousand people as part of the government's Operation Duty Calls programme launched last month, among which were two of the province's most wanted men;

(2) further notes that those arrested were sought for a variety of crimes, including car theft, hijacking and possession of stolen goods;

(3) acknowledges that stolen goods valued at R250 000 were recovered and 27 illegal fire arms and ammunition confiscated, as well as dagga with an estimated street value of R500 000;

(4) commends the Eastern Cape police on a job well done and expresses appreciation to them and all other members of the SAPS who selflessly put their lives on the line to make South Africa a safer and better place.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr G G MOKGORO


Mr T M H MOFOKENG

PREGNANT MOTHER KILLS HER FIVE CHILDREN

(Draft Resolution)

Mr G G MOKGORO: Chair, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes with utter dismay and shock that a pregnant mother from the Northern Cape appeared in court on charges of murdering her five children, aged between 2 and 13, by allegedly forcing them to drink a cocktail of brake fluid and cool drink and then drowning them when she thought that they were not dying quickly enough;

(2) further notes that she allegedly fetched two of the children from school and took them to their grandmother's house where the other three were waiting, and that on her way to fetch the children from school she apparently asked a nephew to fill the bathtub in the meantime; and

(3) calls on all relevant authorities and, in particular, the Department of Social Services and all relevant agencies, as well as churches, church organisations, welfare organisations and community workers, to join hands and to develop and implement appropriate measures and programmes to identify families and individuals that are in distress or have mental disorders and, in particular, identify children that are in the care of such families or persons so as to ensure timeous intervention.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Ms M G BOROTO


Mr G G MOKGORO

LAUNCH OF NATIONAL STRATEGIC PLAN TO FIGHT HIV AND AIDS

(Draft Resolution)

Ms M G BOROTO: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that this morning President Jacob Zuma launched the new National Strategic Plan to Fight HIV and Aids as part of South Africa's 23rd commemoration of World Aids Day at Wolfson Stadium in Port Elizabeth;

(2) further notes that the President outlined the government's new plan and the strategic intervention to fight the spread of HIV and Aids and to respond to the ravaging impact of the HIV and Aids scourge in our communities;

(3) takes this opportunity to congratulate President Zuma and his government on such an elaborate and bold plan to tackle the spread of HIV and Aids in South Africa; and

(4) puts an end to new infections by mobilising our people to get tested without any form of reward, but with the utmost care and willingness to know their status so that they can change their lifestyles and get the necessary assistance.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Are there any objections to the motion? Yes there is. In the light of an objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.

Mr S S MAZOSIWE / Nb/ / END OF TAKE


Ms M G BOROTO

WOMAN BRUTALLY ATTACKED IN EASTERN CAPE

(Draft Resolution)

Mr S S MAZOSIWE: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with utter dismay and aversion that a 32-year-old woman near Mthatha in the Eastern Cape has been gang raped and robbed at her home allegedly by four youths aged between 16 and 17 after they kicked open the door of her house on Tuesday night;

(2) further notes that they took turns in raping her whereafter they robbed her and ran away;

(3) also notes with concern that this gruesome incident took place amidst the Sixteen Days of Activism Against Gender Violence and, in particular, sexual violence, and condemns this cowardice and horrific act;

(4) commends the police who followed up leads swiftly and efficiently and arrested the youths who have already appeared in court; and

(5) calls on the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development and the National Prosecuting Authority to review the penalties for rape with a view to introducing much harsher penalties.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The CHAIRPERSON: Order! Hon members, the time for motions has expired, but I am going to add five minutes to take the remaining hands.

Mr V M MANZINI


Mr S S MAZOSIWE

SEVENTEEN PEOPLE KILLED IN HEAD-ON COLLISION

(Draft Resolution)

Mr V M MANZINI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes the passing away of 17 people in a head-on collision between a taxi and a truck;

(2) further notes that the accident took place along the N4 route in Belfast, Mpumalanga, early this morning;

(3) also notes that three passengers were flung on the hard tar and the rest were burnt beyond recognition;

(4) notes that the taxi moved to the wrong side of the road, which may have been caused by fatigue; and

(5) calls on all long-distance drivers to rest at hourly intervals in order to Arrive Alive!

May the souls of the departed rest in peace.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr M P SIBANDE


Mr V M MANZINI

PLANS BY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT TO BUILD RAILWAY LINE LINKING THE WESTERN CAPE TO THE EASTERN CAPE AND KWAZULU-NATAL

(Draft Resolution)

Mr M P SIBANDE: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes the plans by the national Department of Transport to build a railway line linking the Western Cape, the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal;

(2) also notes that this railway line will transport people as well as goods and thus benefit thousands of people who travel between the Western Cape and the Eastern Cape every weekend and will drastically ease congestion on the N2, which will, in turn, reduce fatal road accidents;

(3) further notes that this will lead to tourism and economic development, particularly for the Eastern Cape;

(4) acknowledges that the rail connectivity between the three coastal provinces is therefore key to their growth and development; and

(5) commends the Department of Transport on this initiative to implement plans that will serve as a stimulus for economic growth and job creation for our people.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr L P M NZIMANDE


Mr M P SIBANDE

VIOLENT STORM KILLS EIGHT PEOPLE IN DURBAN

(Draft Resolution)

Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes that a violent storm killed eight people in Durban and Pietermaritzburg on Sunday night and destroyed scores of homes, bringing the number of people killed by the floods in KwaZulu-Natal to 13 in less than two weeks;

(2) also notes that about 100 homes were flooded and damaged in Isipingo and that these unexpected and extreme weather patterns are attributed to climate change by the provincial department of co-operative governance and traditional affairs;

(3) further notes that this happens at a time when over 20 000 delegates from more than 190 countries are gathered in Durban to thrash out a plan to counter global warming and catastrophic climate change, including extreme weather patterns which are causing havoc in many parts of the world; and

(4) takes this opportunity to welcome the speedy response by the KwaZulu-Natal provincial government in providing assistance to those affected by this disaster, and further urges delegates at Cop 17 to find lasting solutions to the problem of global warming by committing to a legally binding agreement and establishing a climate change global fund and, lastly, conveys its condolences to the bereaved families and affected communities.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

FIRST, SECOND & THIRD ORDERS OF THE DAY / Mpho/UNH (Checked)/ END OF TAKE

MOTION WITHOUT NOTICE: Mr L P M NZIMANDE

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS – CONSIDERATION OF TERMINATION OF INTERVENTION IN THABO MOFUTSANYANA DISTRICT MUNICIPALITY

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS – CONSIDERATION OF TERMINATION OF INTERVENTION IN THEMBISILE HANI LOCAL MUNICIPALITY

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS – TERMINATION OF INTERVENTION IN UMHLABUYALINGANA LOCAL MUNICIPALITY AND EXTENSION OF INTERVENTIONS IN INDAKA, OKHAHLAMBA AND MSUNDUZI LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES

Mr M H MOKGOBI: Hon Chair, I will start by debating the Consideration of the Termination of the Intervention in Thabo Mofutsanyana District Municipality issued in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution of 1996. In the Free State province, the provincial executive council intervened in Thabo Mofutsanyana District Municipality, in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution, as a result of failures to fulfil various executive obligations.

The observation, situation and gap analysis of the current situation revealed the following shortcomings: failure of the municipality to function effectively; a high vacancy rate; and the council's failure to execute executive obligations and its inability to resolve conflicts between the then municipal manager and the chief financial officer.

The committee has observed that the Free State department of co-operative governance and traditional affairs made progress in providing technical and financial support to the district municipality.

Furthermore, the committee has also observed that the decision to terminate the intervention in the district municipality has received the support of the municipal council. Therefore, the committee recommends the following: that the NCOP approve the termination of the intervention in the Thabo Mufutsanyana District Municipality; the national Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs should institute an investigation, led by the Hawks and the Public Protector, to investigate irregularities in the collection of debts and professional services rendered on behalf of the district municipality; the Free State provincial department of co-operative governance and traditional Affairs should table the KPMG forensic report with the select committee within seven days once it has been completed, and that the report be handed over to the Hawks for further investigation; the select committee, in collaboration with the relevant portfolio committee in the Free State legislature, should conduct a joint follow-up visit to the district during the first term of the 2012-13 financial year, to verify and observe the extent of the progress made in the municipality.

I now come to the consideration of termination of intervention in the Thembisile Hani Local Municipality, issued in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution of 1996. The committee observed that the provincial department of co-operative governance and traditional affairs in Mpumalanga has made significant progress by intervening and appointing an administrator in the municipality.

The major progress noticed by the committee related to transformation and organisational development, service delivery, financial management, governance and public participation, and the forensic investigations that were conducted. Perhaps the Council should note that the approach of this municipality was one of the best in the country.

The select committee recommends that the NCOP approve the termination of intervention in the Thembisile Hani Local Municipality. The select committee, in collaboration with the relevant provincial portfolio committee in the Mpumalanga legislature, should conduct a joint follow-up visit to the municipality during the first term of the 2012-13 financial year to verify and observe the extent of progress made in the municipality.

I now come to the termination of intervention in the Umhlabuyalingana Local Municipality and extension of interventions in Indaka, Okhahlamba and Msunduzi Local Municipalities issued in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution.

In the Umhlabuyalingana Local Municipality progress has been made in so far as developing a recovery plan which addressed mainly the governance systems, the financial systems and institutional review.

The Indaka Local Municipality has made progress in certain focus areas in terms of the recovery plan. However, this progress was masked by non-co-operation by the council and administration with regard to the implementation of the intervention.

The Okhahlamba Local Municipality has stabilised with regard to its financial position, which improved from a R16,3 million deficit to an anticipated R4,2 surplus by the end of the financial year. Considerable progress has been made with regard to putting in place various financial systems and controls, governance and institutional systems. In terms of the exit strategy, there are still matters that require continuity and, for this purpose, it is pertinent to note that the municipal manager has been recently been suspended.

In terms of the financial state of the Msunduzi Local Municipality, the noncompliance with various statutory obligations relating to the financial, institutional and governance matters and lack of oversight by the municipal council prior to the intervention, the municipality has adopted a 2011-12 operating and capital budget and the IDP, integrated development plan, this time.

A number of policies have been adopted including budget, tariff, rate and credit management policies to support the budget process. Grant funding is now cash-backed, and a grants register has been developed to track developments and to account for each grant.

In terms of the committee's observations and opinion - noting what has been done by the provincial government to provide support to the municipalities - the committee therefore recommends the following: that the NCOP approve the termination of intervention in Umhlabuyalingana Local Municipality only; that the NCOP approve the extension of interventions in terms section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution in the Indaka Local Municipality, the Okhahlamba Local Municipality and the Msunduzi Local Municipality; that the interventions be extended for a period of six months, ending 31 December 2011.

The select committee further recommends that the KwaZulu-Natal provincial department of co-operative governance and traditional affairs table the forensic investigation report to the NCOP, once it has been approved by the Msunduzi Local Municipality. The select committee, in collaboration with the relevant provincial portfolio committee in the KwaZulu-Natal legislature, should conduct a joint follow-up visit to the respective municipalities during the first term of the 2012-13 financial year to verify and observe the extent of progress made in those municipalities. Msunduzi is the city of choice. I so move.

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs – Consideration of Termination of Intervention in Thabo Mofutsanyana District Municipality – be adopted.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs – Consideration of Termination of Intervention in Thabo Mofutsanyana District Municipality – accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs – Consideration of termination of Intervention in Thembisile Hani Local Municipality – be adopted.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs – Consideration of termination of Intervention in Thembisile Hani Local Municipality – accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs – Termination of Intervention in Umhlabuyalingana Local Municipality and extension of Interventions in Indaka, Okhahlamba and Msunduzi Local Municipalities – be adopted.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs – Termination of Intervention in Umhlabuyalingana Local Municipality and extension of Interventions in Indaka, Okhahlamba and Msunduzi Local Municipalities – accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

FOURTH TO TWELTH ORDERS: Mr T E CHAANE / JN.../TM

FIRST TO THIRD ORDERS: Mr M H MOKGOBI

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - AGREEMENT

BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE

GOVERNMENT OF THE STATES OF GUERNSEY FOR THE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION

RELATING TO TAX MATTERS

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - PROTOCOL

AMENDING THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF

SEYCHELLES AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - PROTOCOL

AND ADDITIONAL PROTOCOL AMENDING THE CONVENTION BETWEEN THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME AND CAPITAL

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - PROTOCOL

AMENDING THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF

SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF MALAYSIA FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO

TAXES ON INCOME, SIGNED AT PRETORIA ON 26 JULY 2005

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SAN MARINO FOR THE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE CAYMAN ISLANDS FOR THE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF JERSEY FOR THE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF BERMUDA FOR THE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF THE BAHAMAS FOR THE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS

Mr T E CHAANE: Hon Chair, as per section 231(2) of the South African Constitution, international agreements bind the Republic only after they have been approved by a resolution in both the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces.

The Select Committee on Finance on 16 November 2011 conducted hearings with the SA Revenue Service and National Treasury regarding the formal ratification of all the international agreements, as already read.

The South African-Seychelles Tax Treaty Protocol had to be renegotiated to make provision for the new dividends tax that will come into operation on 1 April 2012, as proposed in the 2011 Budget by the Minister of Finance, which replaces the secondary tax on companies.

An amendment to the Seychelles Tax Treaty Protocol was also necessary to align it to the global initiative to incorporate a comprehensive exchange of information article in the existing double taxation. [Interjections.] Thank you, hon Bloem.

The new article on exchange of information is aligned to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development model and extends to taxes of every kind. It further ensures that bank secrecy or the absence of domestic tax interest can no longer be used as a reason to deny a request for exchange of information.

The committee moves that the House ratify the South African-Seychelles Protocol amending the double taxation agreement. The South Africa-Australia Tax Treaty Protocol needs to be amended to align it to the global initiative to incorporate a comprehensive exchange of information article in the existing double taxation agreement.

The committee moves that the House ratify the South Africa-Austria Protocol amending the double taxation agreement. The South Africa-Malaysia Tax Treaty Protocol needs to be amended to align it to the global initiative to incorporate a comprehensive exchange of information article in the existing double taxation agreement.

The committee further moves that the House ratify the South Africa-Malaysia Protocol amending the double taxation agreement.

Tax information exchange agreements were negotiated with the following countries:Guernsey, the Cayman Islands, Jersey, San Marino, the Bahamas and Bermuda. In the absence of double taxation agreements, these agreements are worded slightly differently. However, that does not affect the shared principle of the agreements. Tax information exchange agreements afford the SA Revenue Service the right to the exchange of tax information regarding South African citizens operating in these countries or owning offshore bank accounts, as these countries were previously viewed as tax havens.

The committee moves that the House ratify the South Africa–Guernsey tax information exchange agreement, the South Africa-Cayman Islands tax information exchange agreement, the South Africa-Jersey tax information exchange agreement, the South Africa–San Marino tax information exchange agreement, the South Africa–Bahamas tax information exchange agreement, and the South Africa–Bermuda tax information exchange agreement. I so more, Chair.

Debate concluded.

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a member of the House to call another member a clown?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: A clown? I can make sure but I don't think it is unparliamentary. Let me check with the staff quickly.

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, it is Louis who called me a clown.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In terms of the practice of Parliament, members have to respect the decorum of the House. Therefore, for a member to call another member a clown is unparliamentary. Could you withdraw that, hon Mnguni.

Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Chairperson, on a point of order: I have never said a clown. I never said so. It is an inappropriate point of order raised by the hon member who was a senator before. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What did you say?

Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Chairperson, I never used the word clown, and I commented across the House on a Chamber in that I said "a Chamber comedian", which is more positive than a clown, Chair. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Well, that was between the two of you. I did not hear that, but I'm ruling that you don't call each other a clown. It is unparliamentary.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the States of Guernsey for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the States of Guernsey for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Protocol Amending the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Seychelles and the Government of the Republic of South Africa for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Protocol Amending the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Seychelles and the Government of the Republic of South Africa for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Protocol and additional protocol amending the convention between the Republic of South Africa and the Republic of Austria for the Avoidance of Double Taxation with respect to taxes on income and capital - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Protocol and additional protocol amending the convention between the Republic of South Africa and the Republic of Austria for the Avoidance of Double Taxation with respect to taxes on income and capital - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Protocol Amending the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Malaysia for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income, signed at Pretoria on 26 July 2005 - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Protocol Amending the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Malaysia for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income, signed at Pretoria on 26 July 2005 - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of San Marino for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of San Marino for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Cayman Islands for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Cayman Islands for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Jersey for the exchange of information with respect to taxes - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Jersey for the exchange of information with respect to taxes - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Bermuda for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Bermuda for the exchange of information relating to tax matters -accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Question put: That the Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - be adopted.

IN FAVOUR:Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report of the Select Committee on Finance – Agreement between the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas for the exchange of information relating to tax matters - accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: RULING

FOURTH TO TWELTH ORDERS: Mr T E CHAANE

CONTENT OF MOTION WITHOUT NOTICE IS SUB JUDICE

(Ruling)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I now wish to make a ruling on the content of the motion moved by the hon Feldman that I suspended earlier. I'm sorry to break up your caucus. Hon members, I have checked the motion without notice moved by the hon Feldman and would like to confirm that indeed the matter is sub judice as it has to go to the Constitutional Court for certification in terms of section 172(2) of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 15:07.

Mn/src(ch)

END OF TAKE


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