Hansard: NCOP: Debate on the NCOP Provincial Week Report: Taking decisive action to address service delivery challenges in our communities

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 28 Nov 2011

Summary

No summary available.


Minutes

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

START OF DAY

TUESDAY, 29 NOVEMBER 2011

 

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

____________________

The Council met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 14:00.

The Deputy Chairperson (Ms T C Memela) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

NOTICES OF MOTIONS

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela)

 

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr O DE BEER: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the House-

(1) debates the increase in alcohol abuse, which may lead to domestic violence;

(2) notes the increase in the incidence of this form of violence against women under the age of 45 years;

(3) considers the need for harsher punishment of those found guilty of this crime;

(4) debates the further need for creating public awareness and educating children from a young age.

Mr D V BLOEM

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr O DE BEER

 

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Cope:

That the Council-

(1) debates the 300 residents of Petrusburg near Bloemfontein in the Free State who yesterday morning embarked on a protest over poor service delivery;

(2) considers that the N8 between Bloemfontein and Kimberley was barricaded with stones and burning tyres;

(3) takes note of the furious residents who are without housing, water and sanitation;

(4) debates that urgent attention has to be given to the citizens' memorandum of demands, which was delivered to Letsameng Municipality two weeks ago;

(5) hears the cry of the poor, which falls by the wayside time and again; and

(6) debates the need for government to urgently address poor service delivery in South Africa.

Mr D JOSEPH

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr D V BLOEM

 

Mr D JOSEPH: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of DA:

That the House-

(1) debates that the abuse of tik and other drugs is getting out of control, is connected to criminality, gangsterism and other ills in society and poses a serious challenge to the future of our young people;

(2) considers that law-abiding citizens are suffering unfairly under the lawlessness created by these gangs in the community;

(3) requests the Minister of Safety and Security to reintroduce special units in support of current legislation to deal with the scourge of drugs and gangsterism, which threaten to destroy our communities; and

(4) debates drugs and gangsterism in our communities.

Mr D A WORTH

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr D JOSEPH

 

Mr D A WORTH: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House-

(1) notes that a staggering 19 tons of medication has been destroyed by the Eastern Cape health department over the past seven months;

(2) further notes that the medication, worth millions of rand, had either been tampered with or left to expire at government depots, hospitals and clinics;

(3) considers that the destroyed drugs range from headache pills to life-saving antiretrovirals and insulin;

(4) further considers that allowing vast amounts of medication to expire and go to ruin is the same as withholding treatment and is tantamount to a human rights violation; and

(5) notes that rural areas often run out of much-needed medication and that proper stock control and redistribution would mean that medicines could be put to good use well before the expiry dates.

Afrikaans:

AGB LEDE: Skande! Skande!

Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr D A WORTH

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the DA:

That the House-

(1) notes that the 2011 report of the Financial and Fiscal Commission stated that some 83% of the 14 million households in the country did not qualify for bank housing loans;

(2) further notes that some 8,3 million households qualified for state house subsidy - that is in the income group up to R3 500;

(3) considers that this information is worrisome because if no rental stock of houses is available and affordable to households who do not qualify for a bank loan or a state-subsidised house, then they will be the squatters in future; and

(4) urges government and other role players to plan timeously to prevent this from happening in the future.

Mr M C MAINE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS

 

Mr M C MAINE: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the Council-

(1) notes with a great sense of pride the successful beginning of the 17th Conference of the Parties, or what is commonly known as COP 17 to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, in the city of Durban this week and expected to end on 9 December;

(2) further notes that 192 parties from 191 countries, consisting of 11 810 delegates, including several heads of state, government Ministers, officials of the UN, including Secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon, members of civil society and journalists were approved to attend COP 17; and

(3) takes this opportunity to welcome all our national guests to the beautiful shores of our land and wishes them a successful conference as they seek to rally the global community and to find better ways to manage and respond to the global threat of climate change by advancing the negotiations that took place in Cancun, Mexico last year.

Mr M W MAKHUBELA

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr M C MAINE

 

Mr M W MAKHUBELA: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the Council-

(1) debates the shocking revelation by the Auditor-General that Izwilesizwe Primary School in KwaZulu-Natal was completed only four years after a contract deadline;

(2) notes the unacceptable fact that the contractor was given multiple contracts even though the company was unable to do the task;

(3) further notes that thousands of children are left without education because of corrupt practice;

(4) Debates the urgent need for government to address corrupt and underhand dealings with regard to government contracts.

Mr S H PLAATJIE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr M W MAKHUBELA

 

Mr S H PLAATJIE: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of Cope:

That the House-

(1) debates the dumping of medical supplies at Lewisville Combined School in Nkomazi;

(2) notes the lack of accountability and the lacklustre attitude of the provincial department of health in the Mpumalanga province;

(3) further notes the health hazard such a careless incident may pose to the children caught playing with the supplies;

(4) debates the need for a thorough investigation into the incident and for disciplinary procedures to be instituted against the wrongdoers.

Mr W F FABER

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 521

 

Mr S H PLAATJIE

 

Mr W F FABER: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House-

(1) notes that Ministers don't have to scan hand luggage and that President Jacob Zuma has instructed the government protocol unit to ensure that no Minister is ever again obliged to put their hand luggage through an airport scanner;

(2) further notes that he emphasised that under the Vienna Convention, VIPs such as Ministers are afforded certain privileges and protections, but that this is actually not the truth as the Vienna Convention does not exempt the luggage of diplomatic officials from pre-flight X-ray scanning. Article 36 merely prohibits the routine searching inspection of diplomat's luggage unless it is suspected to contain items prohibited by the law or controlled by the quarantine regulations of the receiving state. In fact, diplomats' personal baggage must always be subjected to routine pre-scanning as it applies in civil aviation. The President referred to the incident in September when Minister Nkoana-Mashabane missed a flight in Norway, when she declined to put her hand baggage through a scanner; and

(3) debates that the DA condemns this action by President Zuma and wants to know if Ministers are so far above the law that their handbags may not be searched anymore. The Information Bill, no searching of Ministers' hand luggage - I wonder what will follow next.

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522

 

NOTICES OF MOTION

 

PREMIER LAUNCHES KWAZULU-NATAL HIV, AIDS, STIs AND TB STRATEGIC PLAN FOR 2012 TO 2016

(Draft Resolution)

Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Deputy Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Dr Zweli Mkhize, unveiled a new HIV/Aids, sexually transmitted infections and tuberculosis strategic plan for the province of KwaZulu-Natal for 2012 to 2016;

(2) further notes that this plan seeks to decrease by 80% behaviours that put men and women at risk of HIV and Aids, sexually transmitted infections and TB through the implementation of focus programmes targeting men and women aged 15 to 49 years by 2016 and outlines several key strategic interventions to reduce risk of exposure to HIV/Aids, STIs and TB; and

(3) takes this opportunity to welcome such innovative leadership from the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal and his government in taking the lead to fight the spread of HIV and Aids and its ravaging impact on our communities.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Ms L MABIJA

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522

 

Mr L P M NZIMANDE

 

DISASTROUS STORMS IN AGANANG LOCAL MUNICIPALITY

(Draft Reolution)

Ms L MABIJA: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes the devastating storms that hit the villages of Rosenkrantz, Mamehlabe and Pinkie-Sebotse in Aganang Local Municipality in Limpopo last week and left 104 families homeless;

(2) further notes that a local high school was also hit and extensively damaged when, among other things, certain classrooms were destroyed and that this impacts severely on existing infrastructure that is already inadequate and under pressure;

(3) welcomes the intervention of the Aganang Local Municipality, Capricorn District Municipality, SA Social Security Services and provincial department of co-operative governance, who have come to the rescue of these families and assisted them with food, blankets and shelter; and

(4) takes this opportunity to call on the relevant national and provincial departments, as well as on local and district municipalities, to render further assistance to resettle these families as soon as possible.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr M H MOKGOBI

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522

 

Ms L MABIJA

 

INTERNSHIP PROGRAMME FOR MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS

(Draft Resolution)

Mr M H MOKGOBI: Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes the announcement by the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to develop an internship programme to train municipal officials to deal with specific problems in municipalities, including infrastructure problems and generating the skills needed to deal with ageing and failing infrastructure;

(2) further notes that the programme intends to include engagement with universities to work with the department and align their courses appropriately and that academics work with municipalities for a year as the practical component of the course; and

(3) welcomes this initiative in view of the many challenges relating to municipal infrastructure and service delivery, as well as the need for qualified and skilled officials, and calls on the Minister to implement such a programme as soon as possible and to extend it to include training in financial and supply-chain management, performance management, as well as training in other sectors.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr T A MASHAMAITE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522

 

Mr M H MOKGOBI

 

UNAVAILABILITY OF WATER FOR COMMUNITIES AROUND NANDONI DAM

(Draft Resolution)

Mr T A MASHAMAITE: Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes that despite the Nandoni Dam in the Vhembe district of Limpopo having been built and completed in 2004 at a cost of R600 million, the communities living next to the dam as well as other communities in the Vhembe district are still without water;

(2) further notes that the reason for this unfortunate and unacceptable state of affairs is attributed to poor workmanship by the contractor, as well as inferior pipes that were used for water reticulation, leading to a court battle that resulted in water not being provided to communities;

(3) expresses concern that the communities have been deprived of the most basic source of life, namely water, for a long time while the relevant departments, the provincial legislature and municipalities have allowed this state of affairs and the matter to remain unresolved;

(4) takes this opportunity to welcome the assurance given by the Minister of Water Affairs that the communities will get water within 56 weeks; and

(5) calls on all relevant Ministers and their departments, as well as the provincial government and local authorities, to intervene as a matter of extreme urgency and to find other means to provide water to these communities in the interim.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Ms M W MAKGATE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522

 

Mr T A MASHAMAITE

 

HIV AND AIDS STUDY

(Draft Resolution)

Ms M W MAKGATE: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice ...

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon member, just hold on for a few minutes. Dear hon Mnguni and others, let's have one meeting. Please don't disturb the person who has the floor.

Ms M W MAKGATE: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the House–

(1) notes that a study commissioned by the Department of Higher Education and Training, conducted at 21 universities with 25 000 respondents, found worrying trends about the prevalence of HIV and Aids in the country's higher-education sector, with university students in the Eastern Cape displaying the highest prevalence of HIV and Aids compared to other provinces with universities;

(2) further notes that female students are more likely to contract HIV and Aids at university, compared to their male counterparts;

(3) acknowledges that this study has demonstrated an urgent need for universities and the Department of Higher Education and Training to implement a robust strategic intervention to raise awareness and increase responsible sexual behaviour among university students; and

(4) takes this opportunity to call on the Minister of Higher Education and Training and the vice chancellors in our higher-education sector to ensure that the higher-education sector establishes an HIV and Aids strategy to address those worrying levels of HIV and Aids exposure in our higher-education sector, especially among people who have the potential to advance the growth of our national skills and expertise pool.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Is there any objection to the motion? Yes, there is. In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. [Interjections.] Order, please! The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.

Mr G G MOKGORO

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522

 

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela)

 

"WALK THE FUTURE" WALK

(Draft Resolution)

Mr G G MOKGORO: Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes that Deputy President Kgalema Motlante, who was joined by the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs, Edna Molewa, and the KwaZulu-Natal premier, Dr Zweli Mkhize, led hundreds of community and civil society members on a 2,8 km walk called "Walk the Future" along Durban's beachfront on Sunday, 27 November 2011;

(2) further notes that this walk was part of raising awareness about COP 17 and to highlight the effects of climate change and rising sea levels, particularly concerns raised by eThekwini scientists that the sea level at Durban could rise by between 30cm and one metre if South Africa did not continue with its robust measures to lead the global community in managing climate change and global warming;

(3) takes this opportunity to congratulate the Deputy President, the premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Minister Molewa and the hundreds of civil-society members and communities who took part in this very successful walk; and

(4) appeals to every citizen of South Africa to play their role in advancing our national efforts to ensure that our nation responds to the changes brought about by global warming and climate change.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Ms M G BOROTO

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522A

 

Mr G G MOKGORO

 

MURDER 10-YEAR-OLD MASEGO KGOMO

(Draft Resolution)

Ms M G BOROTO: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes the sentencing of a muti and witchcraft killer, Brian Mangwale, to life imprisonment in the Pretoria High Court yesterday for murdering 10-year-old Masego Kgomo and another six years imprisonment for kidnapping her in December 2009;

(2) further notes that 10-year-old Masego Kgomo was killed in the most aggravating and heartless circumstances where her womb and breasts were cut out while she was still alive;

(3) welcomes the sentencing of Mongwale for hisheartless, inhuman and senseless killing of this innocent child; and

(4) calls on any person who might have additional information about any person who might have assisted Mangwale in this senseless murder to ensure that such people are brought to face the full might of the law.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr T M H MOFOKENG

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522A

 

Ms M G BOROTO

 

BRUTAL KILLING OF A 26-YEAR-OLD MOTHER

(Draft Resolution)

Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes with the utmost apprehension the announcement by prosecutor Andrea Johnson that two of the men accused of the brutal killing of a 26-year-old teaching assistant and mother of a small child, Chanelle Henning, who was murdered in the Tshwane suburb of Faerie Glen this month, may escape jail time because of a plea bargain with the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA;

(2) recognises the independence of the judiciary, particularly in ensuring fair justice for our people irrespective of their social status, yet takes this opportunity to express its profound outrage and derision at this announcement as nothing more than an attempt to sell our justice to the highest criminal bidder and degrade the fairness of our justice system; and

(3) calls on the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development to intervene and ensure that these heartless criminals, who have shown repulsive disregard for human life, are made to face the full might of the law and to pay for their cruel deeds and that the NPA does not take the easy way out of arresting any person who may be linked to this heinous criminal act.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr V M MANZINI

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522A

 

Mr T M H MOFOKENG

 

FOURTEEN PEOPLE DIE ON WESTERN CAPE ROADS

(Draft Resolution)

Mr V M MANZINI: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the DA:

That the Council-

(1) notes that tragedy struck the family of a top South African golf star on a weekend that saw at least 14 people losing their lives on Western Cape roads;

(2) further notes that Aidan Greeff died in the ambulance after a motorbike crash on Saturday on a road between the N1 and Calitzdorp in the Klein Karoo;

(3) acknowledges that it is a very sad day for the Greeff and Immelman families;

(4) notes that, according to provincial traffic chief Kenny Africa, it was a "dark weekend" in Cape Town; and

(5) calls on all South Africans to join hands in observing the speed limit and making sure that we are not counted as drunk drivers.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Is there any objection to the motion? Can you all be attentive and answer the question I have just posed. It will save us time.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution

Mr S S MAZOSIWE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522A

 

Mr V M MANZINI

 

POOR PEOPLE LOSE THEIR HOUSES IN MIDVAAL LOCAL MUNICIPALITY

(Draft Resolution)

Mr S S MAZOSIWE: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that at least 85 poor people have lost their houses under dubious circumstances in the DA-controlled Midvaal Local Municipality amidst damning findings by the Public Protector against the municipality;

(2) further notes that, among others, one victim's house was demolished just three months before he would have paid the final instalment thereon and the house of another family, who owed the municipality R2 000, was auctioned and sold for a mere R100 by unscrupulous people who are now selling it for R400 000;

(3) acknowledges the findings of the Public Protector that the law firm that acted on behalf of the municipality in these matters had been improperly and irregularly appointed by the council; and

(4) calls on the provincial government to intervene as a matter of urgency to prevent the further sale of houses and root out these draconic actions of the council.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Are there any objections? Yes, there is an objection. In light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with and the motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion. [Interjections.]

Hon members, I might be forced to order some of the members in this Chamber to leave. This is the final warning. We either toe the line or some of you will actually be taken out of the Chamber.

Mr M P SIBANDE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522A

 

Mr S S MAZOSIWE

 

INTEGRITY LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE HOSTED BY THE PREMIER OF KWAZULU-NATAL

(Draft Resolution)

Mr M P SIBANDE: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that the premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Dr Zweli Mkhize, hosted the Integrity Leadership Conference at the Olive Convention Centre in Durban last week;

(2) further notes that the conference was intended to strengthen the KwaZulu-Natal Antifraud and Anticorruption strategy by introducing new and innovative ways of fighting fraud and corruption, as well as rekindling the centrality of good ethical behaviour and values in public discourse; and

(3) takes this opportunity to congratulate the premier of KwaZulu-Natal and his government for taking decisive measures to put an end to corruption, maladministration, inefficiency and abuse of public funds.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr D V BLOEM

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522A

 

Mr M P SIBANDE

 

FRUITLESS AND WASTEFUL EXPENDITURE BY MOQHAKA LOCAL MUNICIPALITY

(Draft Resolution)

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes the fruitless and wasteful expenditure of more than R9 million of taxpayers' money by the Moqhaka Local Municipality in the Free State;

(2) further notes that the Moqhaka council's tourism extravaganza event, which never materialised, was supposed to draw international personalities like Tiger Woods to play golf in Kroonstad, which is part of Moqhaka, and several soccer games involving top Premier Soccer League teams like Orlando Pirates and Kaizer Chiefs;

(3) registers disgust in this municipality for wasting R9 million of taxpayers' money while the communities of Moqhaka Municipality are without proper and civilised services like proper roads and sanitation;

(4) calls upon the Public Protector to investigate this whole project.

In light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with and the motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.

Mr M C MAINE

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 522A

 

Mr D V BLOEM

 

PASSING AWAY OF FORMER BAFANA BAFANA COACH APRIL "STYLES" PHUMO (Draft Resolution)

Mr M C MAINE: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes with sadness the passing away of former Bafana Bafana coach April "Styles" Phumo, aged 74, who died in a Bloemfontein private hospital on Sunday after a long battle with cancer;

(2) also notes that Phumo was thrust into the job of Bafana Bafana coach in 2003, shortly before the 2004 African Cup of Nations final in Tunisia, after the untimely firing of current South African under-23 coach, Ephraim "Shakes" Mashaba;

(3) further notes that after being replaced by Stuart Baxter as coach, "Styles" Phumo continued serving the South African Football Association, SAFA, in various capacities for many years, coaching a number of age-group teams and making a huge contribution in the area of football development;

(4) acknowledges that he first made an impact in South African soccer in the 1990s as the coach of Bloemfontein Celtic and greatly enhanced the stature of that Free State club through the clinical, exciting brand of soccer they displayed;

(5) notes that he was born in South Africa but spent many years in Lesotho, coaching the national team and becoming a revered legend, and that, when Fifa president Sepp Blatter opened a Fifa-sponsored development complex in Maseru in 2002, Phumo was described as "the most famous name in football to emerge from Lesotho";

(6) that a few months before his death, Phumo bravely accepted the job of coaching PSL First Division club Atlie Football Club, but his health was deteriorating fast and he was forced to relinquish the position; and

(7) salutes this staunch and dedicated football stalwart and expresses sincere sympathy with and condolences to the Phumo family.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): I appeal to all hon members that we are not going to take further motions without notice because we have a very long list of people who have to talk.

FIRST ORDER

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 523

 

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT ON PROVINCIAL WEEK OF 12-16 SEPTEMBER 2011

Sesotho:

Mr T E CHAANE: Ke a leboha Modulasetulo ya kgabane. Ditho tse kgabane, ke rata ho totobatsa ka kotloloho ho latela taelo ya mokgatlo wa setjhaba, e leng ANC. Puong ya ka ke tla akaretsa dintlha tsohle tse ileng tsa sisinngwa ke diporofense tsohle tse se nang dibeke thapameng ya kajeno.

English:

Chairperson, the theme of today's debate, "Advancing citizen involvement in addressing service delivery challenges in our communities", could not have come at a better time. It comes at a time when service delivery in communities has become a very hot topic. The question is whether the main reasons behind these protests is service delivery or something else. The debate today gives us one more opportunity to examine exactly that.

The NCOP, the only House of Parliament in which the three spheres of government meet together to discuss issues affecting the provinces and the municipalities directly, presents a perfect platform for us to get into specifics in terms of the challenges we are faced with, and we dare not fail. It is in this very House where evaluation and monitoring on issues of provincial interest in the national spheres of government should be discussed and resolved.

It is my contention that the provinces are equally expected to create an enabling platform to make this possible by ensuring that there is a free flow of information between them and permanent members, and vice versa, on issues affecting the provinces. To this end, that kind of relationship seems to be the one thing that is lacking as most provinces either don't take the importance of this House seriously or there is a lack of understanding of its importance, or this is just a case of a lack of political will to explore this rare opportunity.

It is encouraging, though, that some provinces like Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal - to cite two examples - seem to have found a formula on how best their legislatures and permanent delegates in the NCOP should relate. One hopes that all other provinces will soon follow suit.

This House has indeed championed the art of involving communities in finding solutions to their problems. This has been achieved through various programmes, such as committee engagement with the communities, Provincial Weeks and the "Taking Parliament to the People" programme. One of the most successful stories is the programme of action rolled out by the President during the recent "Taking Parliament to the People" in uNquthu District in KwaZulu-Natal.

The bold steps taken by the President in response to the identified problems is not just one isolated achievement by this House. It is one of the many untold successes realised through hard work by the permanent delegates and NCOP staff, who are always combat-ready to make sure that the communities are well mobilised and equipped with information before the members visit them through their various committees.

Allow me now to highlight some of the crosscutting issues that were raised by the provinces during the Provincial Week. The first issue is the scarcity of water. Research by various institutions has shown and confirmed that South Africa is a water-scarce country. The scarcity in the provision of water in the country is gradually reaching crisis levels.

The question we need to address is how we should preserve water and use it sparingly. What should be done to make sure that every living being has access to clean water and that water reserves are enough to sustain us into the distant future? The scarcity of water remains a challenge that needs to be treated as a high priority, and quickly.

The second issue raised is acid mine drainage. Many mines in Gauteng and the North West remain operational and create a serious challenge regarding the rising levels of acid water. Although researchers have given the assurance that this does not pose a crisis at the present moment, it remains a serious challenge and a health hazard to those who live close to these mines. The efforts put into this matter are much appreciated, but more work is needed on this matter. We need innovative strategies and funds to address this problem.

The third issue that was raised was the equitable share formula. Through the inputs of various members and committees on this matter, National Treasury has introduced some changes on the weighting for health and education in the equitable share formula. Although the provinces have benefited from these changes, some people still believe that more changes are required, and the matter needs to be discussed further. We are happy that the matter will soon be debated in this House and we hope that the provinces will come up with innovative ideas that will facilitate a rapid change in the formula while we await the results of the latest census, which is one of the primary factors in the determination of each equitable share formula.

The fourth point that has been raised is the number of permanent delegates in this House. Everyone has come to realise that the constraints and challenges brought about by the number of representatives in this House remain and make the life of the NCOP difficult. Unless this matter is urgently addressed, the provinces will argue that the NCOP will never reach its maximum performance. It will, at best, become inefficient and ineffective, as its members will burn out due to high workloads. The majority will run to the National Assembly whenever there is an opportunity to do so.

The fifth point, as raised by provinces, is the issue of health. The challenges of health in all the provinces cannot be overemphasised. There is a need for closer collaboration between the provinces, permanent delegates and the Ministry of Health if we are to make a meaningful dent in these challenge. Working in silos will only burden the other provinces that provide better services and have better facilities.

The sixth point raised by provinces, which is also crucial, relates to rural development. We all know that this matter is one of the top-five priorities of our national government. Yet in most provinces one is not sure which position it occupies. After what we saw in KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, the North West, the Eastern Cape and elsewhere in the country, we are all convinced that a lot still has to be done in developing our rural areas. There is no doubt that addressing rural issues will go a long way in addressing urban challenges like migration to Gauteng, overpopulation in hospitals, informal settlements, etc.

Other issues of national importance, as raised by provinces, include job creation, the shortage of police officers in the SA Police Service and related resources, the shortage of technical skills, the need for an integrated single police service, as proposed by the Gauteng province, and the chronic disease of the public purse: the cancer of corruption. There is no doubt that these issues need to be pursued further and the necessary funds channelled to those areas where the lives of communities are at the mercy of criminals.

Chair, I have raised these issues, which are contained in the reports of the provinces, as issues that are crosscutting. I hope that those who will be debating them will go into specifics in terms of how the issues affect the provinces and the projects that are failing because of a shortage of funds and skills, where necessary.

It is high time that the provinces spend money on the filling of critical posts - the posts that matter most if we are really serious about value for money and a better life for all. There can never be a better life for all if we continue to run our government without better skilled people. We will never reach our goals if we take years and years to take bad elements out of our systems. It cannot be right that we allow corrupt people to stay in our systems on full salaries after we have identified them as being on the wrong side of the law.

We will never defeat this war as long as we allow corrupt accounting officers to be accountable only to their pockets at the expense of our people. Now is the time. Let us join hands and work together. Yes, we should work together, for together we can achieve more - as the ANC has identified. Yes, together we can build a better future, a better country and a better nation. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): May I take this opportunity to welcome and acknowledge the dear hon Watson and all the other people who are seated in the gallery. [Applause.]

Mr M DIMAZA

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 524

 

Mr T E CHAANE

 

Mr M DIMAZA (Eastern Cape): Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon members of this House, hon members from the different provinces and guests, I am greatly honoured to speak on behalf of the people of the Eastern Cape in this important debate about the Provincial Week visit by members of this House in the process of carrying out its constitutional mandate, which is the performance of oversight. To us as the Eastern Cape province this visit is a source of encouragement because it allows us to check and also see for ourselves where we are failing our people.

During the 2011 local government elections, we made a call that we work together towards building better communities. We were informed by the firm belief that our people must be their own liberators rather than spectators in the struggle for their own economic emancipation. In keeping with our commitment to being a government that is engaging, accessible and responsive, members of the Executive Council, Exco, have been implementing a very successful Executive Council outreach programme throughout the districts of the Eastern Cape province.

Through this particular programme, engagements and interactions with the leadership of the municipalities, communities and stakeholders had taken place. Through these particular interactions, government was also trying to attend to the governance and service delivery challenges of the province. These interactions also engaged public servants in all the districts on the new and improved strategies, policies and programmes as part of the roll out of the Public Sector Transformation Strategy Action Plan, which is part of the human resource management turnaround in the province.

As far as the question of job creation is concerned, as the province of the Eastern Cape we have created 64 837 job opportunities through the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, against the annual target of 94 504. In the first quarter, we managed to bring food to households that lived below the breadline, placing the Eastern Cape at the top of all the provinces. The province is currently engaging the private sector and labour to devise means of saving existing jobs while creating more. We have lined up major infrastructure projects that have the potential of stimulating job creation.

From 2007 to 2011, the province of the Eastern Cape invested R97 million in skills development and more than 2 000 young people have graduated in different fields. Some have even secured jobs. The last 367 youths graduated from the Coega Skills Development Programme. Some of them are ready for the trade and others are artisans. The province has also enrolled 428 young contractors as learners through the accelerated professional trade competency development programme of the department of roads and public works, while to date 180 learners have graduated as fully fledged artisans in the province.

On the issue of education, as the province we can confirm that 4 200 temporary teachers have been permanently appointed. Both the national and provincial governments are continuing with engagements, striving towards finding an appropriate legal framework for the intervention by the national Department of Basic Education. Based on the President's guidance, a task team with five people from each side was established in an attempt to find political management in the intervention. The team continues to meet and give reports to the Office of the President.

As far as the question of health is concerned, as the province of the Eastern Cape and as a person who has come to this House for the first time, I think the question of medication ...

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Dimaza, can you just hold on for a second. Hon Mokgobi, it's a ruling: Switch off your phone. Continue, Mr Dimaza.

Mr M DIMAZA: As far as health is concerned, and as part of improving the health profile of the citizens of the Eastern Cape province, we have managed to upscale our efforts in the fight against tuberculosis, TB, and HIV/Aids, which are major killer diseases in the province. The prevention of mother-to-child transmission has saved 3 913 babies who tested PCR negative, compared to the 207 who tested PCR positive. The province has also expanded access to antiretroviral treatment to 158 084 clients through 610 antiretroviral, ARV, sites that have been established.

As you might know, one of our pharmaceutical depots caught fire. As a result, we instituted an investigation and it transpired from that particular investigation that quite a number of medications had expired. This was the incident referred to earlier.

Since the launch of the HIV and Aids counselling and testing campaign, we have covered 1,4 million people. Through the medical school at Walter Sisulu University, 52 clinical associates graduated. This was the first graduation and will address the shortage of doctors and health professionals, especially in the rural health institutions of the province of the Eastern Cape.

As far as the question of municipalities is concerned, the government of the Eastern Cape is among the leaders of provinces that continue to make significant strides in the important fostering of good working relations between the royal houses and elected councillors. As the province we believe that through working with these institutions of traditional leaders, they can play a vital role to influence the municipalities and communities in embracing and promoting heritage, language, customs and tradition, as well as in the promotion of indigenous knowledge systems for sustainable development.

The Eastern Cape provincial government, through the department of local government and traditional affairs, has developed a turnaround strategy for municipalities to address issues such as employing the right personnel in the right positions and developing enough capacity to lead to a clean audit in 2014. Consequently, municipalities are implementing an anticorruption strategy and supply chain management system, and they have functional audit committees.

While it is evident that the lives of our people in the province continue to change, we need to agree that there is no denying the fact that there is still much to be done. We believe that together with the people of the province, NCOP members and everybody in the country, we can do far better than what we are doing. We want to thank you on behalf of the province for this opportunity. Ndiyabulela. [I thank you.] [Applause.]

Ms A ROSSOUW

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 525

 

Mr M DIMAZA

 

Ms A ROSSOUW (Western Cape): Deputy Chair, Provincial Week is one of the mechanisms established by the NCOP to achieve its mandate of representing the country's provinces in the national sphere. The Provincial Week is designed to give permanent delegates to the NCOP and the legislature an opportunity to undertake oversight visits and interact with communities in order to get first-hand information on the delivery of services.

It is a privilege to be part of the debate today. The debate is centred on the Provincial Week of September 2011, where the areas visited are those that were previously visited by the NCOP and provincial delegates as part of the Taking Parliament to the People programme of 2007. The purpose of the week-long visit and the subsequent report is to ascertain the progress made in regard to issues that were raised by the communities during the visit of 2007 and new issues that were added.

A number of issues and recommendations have been highlighted in the report that documents the 2011 visit. Some of the main sites visited that received attention were Kayamandi Clinic, Stellenbosch Hospital, Nondzame Primary School in Pniel, Klapmuts Primary School and the Thusong Centre in Worcester.

Klapmuts Primary School was established in 1976 and the old school was demolished during 2009. The construction of the new school started in 2010. The Western Cape education department, WCED, in partnership with the Independent Development Trust, ensured the replacement of the old, inappropriate structure and the construction of a new school that includes 32 classrooms, two ablution blocks, a computer facility, a library, an early learning centre and sports facilities.

This is also a new-generation concept school for South Africa. Once the students have gone home, the library and computer facilities are opened up and become a place where older students and parents can learn. Here community members can involve themselves in enriching and furthering their knowledge and interests. This integrated approach towards using and sharing facilities should be encouraged in other places and provinces.

One of the concerns in this area was the drop-out rate of pupils. It is projected that in sub-Saharan Africa 10 million children drop out of primary school every year. This dilemma has to be addressed at both provincial and national levels. More must be done to ensure that well-qualified teachers are trained and salary scales adjusted to draw people to this profession.

To address the problem in the Western Cape, the education department has started providing quality education by improving literacy and numeracy outcomes, as well as identifying where special interventions need to happen. There are, however, other socio-economic factors that also contribute to the drop-out rates.

The delegation also visited Nondzame Primary School, where some tension had been caused by the proposal to integrate Nondzame Primary School with Pniel Primary School. Nondzame Primary School is currently located on the same site as the Pniel Primary School. The WCED would like to merge the schools, but the Nondzame school governing body has refused to merge. Therefore the department decided to erect separate classrooms for Nondzame on the grounds of Pniel Primary School. At the same time of the move, the Nondzame school governing body agreed to share facilities at Pniel, including ablution facilities.

Afrikaans:

Een van die aanbevelings waarna die verslag verwys is dat mobiele toiletgeriewe by Nondzame beskikbaar gestel moet word. Dit het intussen 'n probleem geraak. Die Wes-Kaapse Departement van Onderwys het onderneem om hierdie ablusiegeriewe te voorsien en dit is reeds teen die einde van September 2011 geïnstalleer.

English:

Education and health care will be two of the most important issues to be addressed in South Africa. Of all the provincial departments, the Western Cape department of health received the largest amount from the provincial budget of 2011-12. The department has also shifted its focus from the creation of more facilities for sick people to a greater focus on the prevention of disease. The department is also aware of the tension between limited resources and demands on the health service. Great efforts must also be made to stay within the budget. The department of health commissioned the Burden of Disease Report, and this report guides the interventions based on evidence, to address the upstream factors in health.

The issue of the toilets adjacent to the Kayamandi Clinic has been attended to by the ward councillor and the local municipality. They ensured that the dug-out pit into which overflow must run was cleared and deepened in order to allow for more overflow.

Many of the issues outlined in the report have been addressed by the department of health, including the issue of staffing concerns. The antiretroviral, ARV, site now has a full-time doctor, one session doctor and a pharmacist. This is to cope with the high volume of patients at this clinic.

The Thusong Clinic in Worcester is supposed to be a primary vehicle for the implementation of development, communication and information, and to integrate government services into primary rural communities. It aims to empower the poor and the disadvantaged through access to information services and resources from government, nongovernmental organisations, business and so forth, to enable them to engage in government programmes for the improvement of their lives.

Thusong Centres may not become political instruments. Both local government and the provincial department of local government must take joint responsibility to ensure that these centres operate to the benefit of the community, that the infrastructure is not neglected but maintained and cleaned, and that services are provided. These centres must add value to the community and we call on the provincial department of local government to conduct regular checks on these centres and ensure that the mandate of these centres is fulfilled.

Afrikaans:

Behuising is een van die kwessies wat ook met baie emosie en intense gemoedere gepaardgaan. Ons moet onthou dat die behoud van behuisingswaglyste die verantwoordelikheid van munisipaliteite is. Die departement van behuising in die Wes-Kaap verleen ondersteuning om die munisipaliteite by te staan met hul behuisingsaanvraag data-insameling, sowel as die bestuurstelsels en praktyke van hierdie data. Data van 'n goeie kwaliteit word benodig om die keuse van begunstigdes te maak. Hierdie strategie is reeds by nege van die 24 nie-metro munisipaliteite geïmplimenteer en die oorblywende munisipaliteite sal volg. Meganismes is in die strategie ingebou om te verseker dat die ooreenkomste en reëlings nagekom word.

English:

A last issue of great concern was the houses next to the railway line in Mbekweni, Paarl. It is good to know that Transnet has undertaken to erect a barrier wall in order for the community to remain safe but part of this undertaking needs to be the continuous engagement between the community and Transnet in order to ensure that everyone understands what the agreement entails and why the community must allow the barrier wall to be erected. Transnet should also continue engaging with the municipality on how the relocation of the community can take place because it is ultimately about the preservation of life.

At the Western Cape debriefing session, many of the issues highlighted by the report and the planning of the Provincial Week were discussed. Ways to accommodate the recommendations to ensure better planned visits in the future were also discussed. All the political parties were consulted for suggestions and proposals on which areas to be visited during future Provincial Weeks. Researchers will also be requested to do more in-depth research and provide reports on the background, issues and problems in the areas we intend to visit.

Afrikaans:

Daar sal moet besin word oor hoe doeltreffend en wenslik dit is, en hoe polities geregverdig dit is, dat 'n NRVP Besoekweek so gou na 'n verkiesing plaasvind. Is dit werklik regverdig om van 'n nuwe plaaslike regering te verwag om onmiddellik aandag te skenk aan probleme en kwessies wat onaangedaan gelaat is deur 'n vorige administrasie, en daarop te moet reageer?

Beplanning moet geskied sodat die regte amptenare van die munisipaliteite of instansies ook beskikbaar moet wees om die korrekte inligting aan die afvaardiging oor te dra. In 'n provinsie soos die Wes-Kaap is die voorbereiding van kardinale belang en daar moet deeglik beplan word om te verseker dat geleenthede om die besoek te verpolitiseer nie daar is nie. Die kiesers word nie hierdeur gedien nie.

English:

Further problems and issues arise from the size of the delegations. Would it not be better for the delegations to be divided into clusters? Then there would be the possibility of visiting more areas or sites.

Afrikaans:

Ek is bly om te rapporteer dat die Wes-Kaap reeds tydens ons swepevergadering versoek het dat navorsing oor potensiële gebiede gedoen sal word vir April 2012 se besoek.

Adj Voorsitter, hierdie verslag word vandag met resolusies goedgekeur en na ons onderskeie wetgewers verwys. Dit sal ons as lede van die Parlement se verantwoordelikheid wees om ons oorsigrol te vervul en te verseker dat hierdie resolusies uitgevoer word tot voordeel van ons kiesers.

Die aanbeveling is ook dat daar op 'n jaarlikse basis terugvoering oor die vordering met die resolusies gegee word as deel van die volgende NRVP Besoekweek se program. Só kan verantwoordbare regering gevestig word om die belange van die kiesers te dien. [Applous.]

Mr B A MNGUNI

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 526

 

Mrs A ROSSOUW

 

Mr B A MNGUNI: Madam Deputy Chairperson, hon members, it is a great pleasure and privilege for me to represent the province in today's debate, as it concerns the lives of the voters who sacrifice their time and energy during elections to bring us here.

I believe that, like in any other province, there are achievements and strides in the Free State to improve the lives of ordinary people. The extent and quality of these improvements depend on a combination of factors that include, among others, political leadership, vision, skills and resources.

Some of the issues that stick out like a sore thumb in the province are the lack of financial management and skills at local government level. Of the municipalities that we visited as a delegation, none have had a clean audit for the past two years. The main audit query in many municipalities concerns the asset register, followed by poor financial management systems. As a result, grants from National Treasury, such as the municipal infrastructure grant, are not spent in full. This translates into inadequate service delivery to communities.

It is also a concern that some municipalities, such as Masilonyana in Theunissen and Brandfort, do not make use of the financial management grant to skill their staff in finance management. Of those who have been sent for training, less than 60% completed their training. According to the provincial treasury report, these staff members will graduate at the end of October. What is of greatest concern is that municipalities do not seem to take any action against people who drop out of these courses and, at the end of the day, do not perform at their work.

As far as education is concerned, there are still some pupils who have to travel 10 kilometres to and from school. In total, they travel 20 kilometres per day. These pupils live on the farms and when they come home, there is little to eat and they are tired. Some wake up as early as five in the morning and return home at eight in the evening. This is the case in some rural areas. Scholar transport still has to accommodate these kids. However, on the positive side, there are some schools in rural areas, like those around Edenville, where bicycles have been given to pupils who have to walk such long distances. At most schools on these farms there are also feeding schemes that help to alleviate the poverty at the learners' homes.

At places such as Edenville there is still a shortage of clinic staff and, as a result, health services cannot be rendered after hours. In order to get immediate help after hours, people have to travel to places such as Kroonstad or Sasolburg. If they are suffering trauma or have an emergency, you will find that they have nowhere to go. We know that the shortage of doctors and health workers is a national problem. However, there are places such as these communities where these shortages have an amplified effect.

The good in the province is the difference that has been made by Operation Hlasela. Everybody knows that this flagship project in the province is under investigation by the Office of the Public Protector. For now, let us allow those investigations to run their course and look at the outcomes that the project has had: In places like Heilbron, houses have been built as a result of this project. In Edenville, houses are under construction. In Kroonstad, in Marabastad, and in Matjhabeng and most other areas, there is paving. The housing project in Kroonstad is one of the first human settlements to accommodate families of other races, thus fulfilling an ANC-driven objective of a nonracial society. It is, of course, the Moqhaka Municipality.

Many former townships such as Thabong, Kutlwanong, Meloding, Mnyakeni and others in Matjhabeng Municipality have had major roads paved. This has not only improved the state of some roads in those communities or townships but has also created jobs and imparted skills in road building and paving to those communities.

Provincial Week is one of those programmes which, like Taking Parliament to the People, is unique to the NCOP. Its purpose is to monitor and ensure that projects are implemented and the lives of people are improved. However, it appears as if our colleagues in the province – I don't know about other provinces but it seems to be so in KwaZulu-Natal as well - seem to wait for us, or for the Provincial Week, to reinforce them before they do their oversight work. [Interjections.] We appeal to our colleagues and counterparts for a collective effort in bringing about a better life for all.

As you all know, the legislators at provincial level also play an important role in doing oversight and ensuring that projects that are planned by the provinces are implemented in order to better the lives of the people. Chairperson, it has been a pleasure for me to report on this Provincial Week. [Applause.]

Ms J MALULEKE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 527

 

Mr B A MNGUNI

 

Ms J MALULEKE (Limpopo): Deputy Chairperson, hon members of this august House, ladies and gentlemen, when he ended his active political life, our former President, Rolihlahla Nelson Mandela, said:

I have walked a long road to freedom. I have tried not to falter along the way. But I have discovered the secret that after climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are more hills to climb.

As government we have learnt the valuable lesson that even as we deliver services to our people, the reality is that challenges remain and that every stakeholder in government needs to ensure that they are addressed.

Part of our responsibilities and role as public representatives is to raise issues that affect service delivery in our constituencies and to ensure that they are speedily addressed. The NCOP's visit to the Vhembe district in Limpopo has given hope to our people that their plight in a number of the challenges they raised will be attended to by their government.

Water is one of the scarce commodities and one of the biggest challenges faced by our country. It was no surprise to be confronted by the Vhembe people begging the NCOP and the Limpopo government to assist them and see to it that the Nandoni Dam project is completed. It has taken a long time and our people are running out of patience. If the Nandoni Dam project could be finalised, water shortages in Vhembe district could be history. It is the belief and hope of the Vhembe communities that your visit was not just a waste of time but will produce positive results. They hope that your promise to them to take their concern to the relevant departments will speed up the completion of the project. This will restore the dignity of women in Vhembe, who have to sacrifice their sleep to wake up at midnight to queue at the one available tap, which runs for only three hours.

Health is one of government's priorities and the NCOP also prioritised it during the Provincial Week. The following health institutions were visited: Tshilidzini Hospital, Mutale Health Centre and Elim. Some positive achievements were noted when we conducted oversight there. But it is as our icon, comrade Nelson Mandela, said: "More hills still need to be climbed." Yes, there is still much to be done to achieve our target of providing quality health to all in South Africa.

During our visit to these health facilities the following challenges were raised: a shortage of doctors, ageing infrastructure, a shortage of water and a shortage of wards. We believe all these challenges can be addressed if all the stakeholders are committed. In your next visit to Vhembe it would be nice if people could appreciate the progress made after your first visit.

We believe you were also disappointed by the condition of the road infrastructure in Musina. This municipality is small and can hardly generate enough income to deliver services on its own. The volume of trucks and other vehicles has eroded the N1 road and although the municipality and the province are trying to maintain the road, it is not enough. If the South African National Roads Agency, Sanral, could extend its support to Musina, this problem may be solved.

As Musina is situated at the border of Zimbabwe, it is faced with a high volume of refugees, asylum seekers from Somalia, Ethiopia and the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Department of Home Affairs established a satellite office to assist in the registering of these people. The centre services more than 600 people per day and only 50% are assisted per day because of the shortage of personnel and the slow IT system. This leads to some people who go to the centre for help sleeping on the street near the centre in the hope of being the first in the queue to be helped the following morning. We call upon the department to beef up this centre.

In conclusion, the people of Vhembe have spoken and all the issues raised are central to the work of the NCOP and the Limpopo provincial legislature. We have a duty to ensure that our people are properly serviced. If the challenges posed by water, road infrastructure, health and unemployment are not thoroughly attended to by all our relevant departments, then our hard-earned democracy will be threatened. We hope that all departments will move with speed to change this situation. Kea leboga! Ndo livhuwa. [Thank you.]

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 527

 

Ms J MALULEKE (Limpopo)

 

J MALULEKE

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, permanent delegates of the provinces and members of the public, the NCOP is one of the Houses in Parliament that plays an important and integral role in helping provinces and local government carry out their mandate on service delivery. The NCOP is the mechanism, the tool, the instrument in the hands of provinces, municipalities and communities for holding the executive members in government accountable for service delivery.

We as members from different parties in the NCOP can use the Provincial Week of the NCOP as a political tool and, on both sides of the political spectrum, can fire at each other with huge cannons and machine guns loaded with the best ammunition. If we do this, then we have missed our role and mandate of oversight in the NCOP and as permanent delegates. It is of the utmost importance that every member of the delegation in Provincial Week or Taking Parliament to the People must understand that they are 100% part of a team when doing oversight on a site visit. If one member misuses the situation, then he or she is putting the lives and safety of the other members in danger or at risk. This is unacceptable and totally out of order.

In the Western Cape's Provincial Week, we found good, not so good, and very bad situations on the site visits. The Klapmuts Primary School, the Disaster Management Centre, School of the Deaf in Worcester, the police station in Paarl and the Nondzamo Primary School in Stellenbosch are institutions with a good administrative structure which speaks of excellence. The delegation did address recommendations to improve and help these institutions to further their service delivery programmes. The Western Cape Education Department, WCED, must find a suitable solution on how to integrate the Nondzamo School, because the Pniel Primary School has enough accommodation and opportunity to address the language issue of Nondzamo Primary School.

The provincial and local governments must develop programmes and financial assistance to aid the Disaster Management Centre and the De La Bat School in Worcester. The pregnancy, abortion, TB and social problems in the community around the Kayamandi Clinic in Stellenbosch create huge problems for the clinic and staff, who cannot address them adequately within the resources at hand.

Informal settlements and the backlog in opportunities for housing are a huge problem. The expectations of people in the different communities in terms of receiving a house are unaffordable. It is a ticking time bomb which threatens to explode into anarchy. We, as responsible Members of Parliament, must manage the situation very carefully and with sensitivity in order to create a situation which is manageable.

Afrikaans:

Raadslede moet hul rol as leiers baie ernstig opneem. Hulle moet in hul wyke sigbaar wees, in hul wyke 'n diens lewer en 'n leidende rol speel om die kieser te lei op alle vlakke van die samelewing. Die gemeenskap langs die treinspoor by Mbekweni in die Paarl is een so 'n voorbeeld waar mense toegelaat is om hulle op 'n baie gevaarlike plek te vestig. Mense is nie bewus gemaak van die gevaar vir menselewens nie - of hulle is bewus gemaak, maar het nie geluister nie en is ook nie verhoed om voort te gaan nie. Sulke omstandighede moet te alle tye verhoed word, want die dood van een mens of kind is een te veel. Ek vertrou die aanbevelings van die afvaardiging sal spoedig moontlik uitgevoer word.

English:

I take this opportunity to thank all the support staff who were responsible before, during and after the Provincial Week for the administration and arrangements for the site visits and members' accommodation and travel. We really appreciate their assistance. I do hope that we will get a progress report on a regular basis on the recommendations made by the NCOP and provincial delegation, as mentioned in the report. [Applause.]

Ms L MABIJA

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 529

 

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS

 

Tshivenda:

Vho L MABIJA: Mufarisa Mudzulatshidulo a thonifheaho, mufumakadzi Vho Memela na mirado ya Nndu, ndi kombetshedzea u amba zwi tevhelaho ndi tshi khou ndondomedza uri.

English:

When one analyses and considers the 2011 Provincial Week report in the context of the theme of the programme, "Parliament in action – advancing citizen involvement in addressing service delivery challenges in our communities", the intention and commitment of the South African government, under the leadership of the ANC, to improve the living conditions of all South Africans in partnership with them is clear. It is evident that the government, conscious of extensive backlogs in various sectors and conscious that a lot still has to be done, has achieved much since the dawn of democracy despite having inherited a country characterised by disparities and sharp socioeconomic inequalities and hardship. This was also emphasised ...

Tshivenda:

...nga Muphuresidennde wa shango, Muhulwane Vho Zuma, nanwaha nga nwedzi wa Luhuhi musi vha tshi khou amba na lushaka. Vho amba zwi tevhelaho:

English:

While many South Africans celebrate the delivery of houses, electricity or water, there are yet many others who are still waiting. The legacy of decades of apartheid underdevelopment and colonial oppression cannot be undone in only 17 years.

Tshivenda:

Ndi zwa vhukuma nwana ha bebiwi khathihi na u takuwa a gidima. Tsetsetse i vhidza u gidima.

English:

It is also evident from the report that the challenges and problems that provinces as well as municipalities and communities are faced with are transversal in nature. That is because most of such challenges and problems are common and overwhelming in the rural provinces and, in particular, in the poor and vulnerable rural areas.

The advent of democracy in 1994 created a crisis of expectation among the majority of the previously disadvantaged communities and the South African government is faced with the problem of how to correct the decades of socioeconomic imbalance that it inherited.

Due to the limited time, I shall limit myself to the report relating to certain rural provinces, such as the Free State, Limpopo, Mpumalanga and the Northern Cape, and the issues and challenges emanating from there. Some of the most burning challenges in these and other rural provinces, as highlighted in the report, relate to poverty and job creation; poor municipal infrastructure and services; a lack of economic development; poor road infrastructure and a lack of reliable public transport; a lack of water resources, housing, rural development and agrarian reform, including a lack of sustainable agricultural activities; poor health services; major challenges relating to education, educational infrastructure and related matters; crime, crime prevention and challenges relating to police services and the like.

It is common knowledge that the root cause of these challenges and socioeconomic inequalities is decades of apartheid underdevelopment and colonial oppression of the majority, which created enormous backlogs that will take many years to eradicate. However, the government has already done much over a relatively short period to eradicate the disparities and inequalities of the past and the huge backlogs created thereby. Since 1994, millions of households have been given access to electricity, water, sanitation, housing, medical care and other services they did not have before. Mindful of the plight of the poor and their devastating circumstances, the ANC-led government has also ensured that tens of millions of people receive free basic water and electricity.

However, to address and resolve these challenges successfully, it is necessary to once again assess and analyse them against the background of the root causes thereof and to rectify such causes. In the rural areas of Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Free State and the Northern Cape, services such as sanitation, waste removal, transport, housing and the like have either not been provided or have been of very poor quality. Agricultural production in the homelands stagnated and declined over the years and the population was unable to produce sufficiently for their needs and were therefore bound to a migrant labour system – most unfortunately. This state of affairs and the apartheid regime simply failed to provide resources and support for infrastructure and development in the homelands, including infrastructure for water, electricity, etc. It also resulted in huge backlogs and challenges that the present government is faced with today. To date, budget allocation is still biased towards the urban and developed areas of South Africa. This must change. For the sake of development more of the budget allocation must go to rural areas.

The eradication of poverty is the most profound challenge facing South Africa. High levels of poverty, especially in the rural areas, are compounded by high levels of inequality and a lack of access to natural and financial resources. Those facing the highest risk of poverty and marginalisation are rural people, especially women, women-headed households, as well as the young and the elderly.

The ANC-led government inherited a society with massive disparities in access to health care, income and otherwise. The apartheid government developed a health care system that was sustained through the years by the promulgation of racist legislation and the creation of institutions for the control of the health care sector with the specific aim of sustaining racial segregation and discrimination in health care. The net result was a system that was highly fragmented, biased towards curative care and the private sector, ineffective and inequitable.

Furthermore, health care services were geared towards the needs of minority of the population and sharply divided between the private sector, for those who could afford to pay or who belonged to medical aid schemes, and the public sector, for the poor. A comparison between the richest province, Western Cape, with no former homeland areas attached to it, and the poorest province, Limpopo, which includes the former homelands of Lebowa, Venda and part of Gazankulu, is a case in point.

In 2007, the Western Cape had a substantially greater health infrastructure than Limpopo, with 60 private hospitals, 55 public hospitals and 1 246 doctors for a population of 4,8 million, compared to Limpopo with only six private hospitals, 44 public hospitals and 882 doctors for a population of 5,7 million. These disparities still exist, not only in Limpopo but also in other rural and poorer provinces, as is clearly evident from the report.

Tshivenda:

Fhedzi zwi mangadzaho ndi zwauri na namusi tshelede nnzhi i ya hangei hune ha vha vhuponi ha dzidoroboni ho no bvelelaho. Vhane vha vha vhuponi vhu sa athu bvelela vha wana tshelede thukhu. Hezwi zwithu zwi khou tea u shandukiswa u itela uri ri shumele vhathu vhashu nga ndila yo teaho.

Ndi a livhuwa. Ndi khou toda u fhedzisa nga uri:

 

English:

The Council must therefore ensure that all role players are engaged and committed on an ongoing basis to address and resolve the problems and to improve the lives of the people. Furthermore, the Council and its select committees, in partnership with provincial legislatures, must at all times and on a regular basis perform oversight vigorously. [Applause.]

Mr S P D SKHOSANA

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 530

 

Ms L MABIJA

 

IsiNdebele:

Nom S P D SKHOSANA (Mpumalanga): Sekela lakaSihlalo, iNdlu ehloniphekileko namalunga, angithokoze ithuba lokobana nathi sibe lapha ngekulumo eqakathethileko yelanga nanyana iveke yeemfunda. Isikhathi enginikelwe sona simizuzu elitjhumi. Njengomntwana okhuliswe kuhle godu onehlonipho, ngizakuzama bona ngisebenzele ngaphasi kwaso. Ihlangano yabantu ihlanganisa iminyaka elikhulu unyaka ozako ngenyanga kaTjhirhweni, yakhuluma eminyakeni engamatjhumi amahlanu edlulileko, yathi, "Abantu bazakubusa."

Ihlangano ebusako, nangambala yenze koke okusemandleni bona abantu babenelizwi, bakhulume, babuse eSewula Afrika. Kuyitjisakalo nanyana lithabo elikhulu kithi bona, lokhanyana iveke yesifunda yenzekako eenkhathini ezidlulileko eMpumalanga, yahlangabezana, yatholana phezulu nalokhu eMpumalanga esikubiza ngokuthi kuThatha isibeThamthetho usise ebaNtwini. Sihlangene namalunga we-NCOP, ngokubambisana soke emihlanganweni ebikhona egade ihleliwe. Sifuna ukutjho-ke Sekela lakaSihlalo bona amalunga ahloniphekileko akhuluma ngokuveza lokho ekhenge kubaphathe kuhle ngesizathu sokobana izinto ngendlela ebezihleleke ngakho akhenge zihleleke ngendlela egade bayilindele. Esikuthokoza khulu kukobana ehlelweni leMpumalanga lokuThatha isibeThamthetho usise ebaNtwini, bazithatha bazifaka kilo basebenzisana nesibeThamthetho seMpumalanga, njengabantu nanyana abantwana abavela ngeMpumalanga.

Nakhu ke okukhulu amalunga abekade ahlangene ngokubambisana akuvezako:

English:

The referral of section 76 Bills presented a serious problem within the legislature. Under normal circumstances provinces were given three weeks to process Bills, but in most instances the NCOP gave the province far less time than the three-week period. It was therefore of prime importance that this problem be taken seriously and that assistance be rendered for the province to process Bills appropriately and within reasonable timeframes. On the other hand, the legislature's administration needed to put measures in place that would ensure the smooth running of the referral system.

IsiNdebele:

Thina-ke njengabantu lokha nasenza lokho esikubiza ngokobana lilihlo lakakholo, emsebenzini weminyango yakarhulumende wombuso ophakathi norhulumende wekhaya, eendabeni ezithinta isiFunda seMpumalanga kabuhlungwana, nakhu-ke esakubanako nesakuyelelako njengamalunga ngokuhlanganyela: Kunendawo esiyibiza ngokobana kuse Daggakraal e-Ward 10, kuMasipala wePixley Ka Seme. Kunenarha eyathengwa ngurhulumende lapho nanyana ayilungiselela abantu bona bazo kwazi ukutjala ama-apula nanyana kube neemvande ekuzotjalwa kizo imirorho godu nazo zoke izinto ezikhambelana nalokho. Ngokutlhogeka kwetjhudu, izinto akhenge zikhambe ngendlela efaneleko. Iphrojekthi leyo akhange iphumelele kuhle, nabantu bendawo leyo azange bathathe iphrojekthi leyo kube ngeyabo. Esakutholako sihlangane soke namalunga ahloniphekileko weNdlu le neweKhansela ngilokhu:

English:

The Mosakong project collapsed after millions of the taxpayer's money had been wastefully spent on the project that was supposed to have benefited the community of Daggakraal. The department appointed Mosakong as the consultant engineer as well as the implementing agency. Moreover, the consultant named the project after itself - Mosakong. The consultant did not honour the service contract. Therefore there was no communication by government with the community and the community never took ownership of the project.

 

IsiNdebele:

Sekela lakaSihlalo, sifuna ukutjho bona ngeMpumalanga sizayelela bona eSewula Afrika akukho indawo nayinye nanyana inarha ingaba ngangani engekho ngaphasi komasipala. Nangabe abomasipala bama-293, sithola abomasipala abakhombako kwaphela abakghona ukubanalento esiyibiza ngokobana kuhlanzeka kweencwadi nanyana yi-Clean Audit. Kilaba abomasipala abakhombako abathathu bakhona babuya esiFundeni seMpumalanga. IMpumalanga inabomasipala abama-21. Okusithokozisako kukobana eendabeni zabomasipala itjhuguluko likhona, silibonile kunengi okwenzekileko ngeMpumalanga, kodwana njenganje sitjho sithi, sibonile bona iMpumalanga iyatjhuguluka iyakhamba iyaphambili.

Besinalokhu esikubiza ngokobana yi-section 139 interventions ngeMpumalanga lapho abomasipala abane, iThaba Chweu, iMkhondo, iPixley Ka Seme neThembisile Hani, bebonganyelwe lilifu elinzima lapho izinto zabo bezingakhambi kuhle khona. I-section 139 interventions kukghoniwe bona isuswe, nasifikako sathola umbiko wokobana, seyisusiwe abomasipala laba sebasebenza kuhle. Sibatjhejile begodu siyavuma soke ngokukhamba kwesikhathi sisazobatjheja bonyana ingabe basenza zona na?

Sithole nokobana kuneragelo phambili ngeendabani zamakhosi eMpumalanga. Kuyasetjenzwa begodu kusetjenzwa ngendlela ehloniphako. Isithunzi samakhosi siyabuyiswa begodu indlela ekusetjenziswana ngayo amakhansela namakhosi iyathabisa. Esikhathini esidlulileko besinomraro omkhulu lapho begade kunganakusebenzisana phakathi kwamakhansela namakhosi. Njenganje sengathi kubonakala isentjenziswano nebambiswano. Kunalokhu esikubiza ngokobana yi-Mpumalanga Ingoma Bill ka-2011 ophasiswe sibeThamthetho seMpumalanga.

Eendabeni zamanzi, singatjho ngaphandle kokuzaza bona ubujamo buyatjhuguluka. Siyakhumbula bona esikhathini esidlulileko sibe nomraro omkhulu endaweni ebizwa nge-Delmas lapho kwaqubuka okwaziwa nge-typhoid. Singatjho ngaphandle kokungabaza bona isiFunda seMpumalanga ngokubambisana sikwazile bona isetjenzwe indaba yamanzi nge-Delmas. Ngikhuluma nje, iveke le kizo zoke ezinye izinto ebazenzileko kozokunikezelwa nge-Purification Plant yamanzi eyenza bona amanzi ahlanzeke. Kune-payipi ehlangabezana namanzi la abizwa nge-Rand Water azokhamba isigaba esingangamakhilomitha ama-25 siza nge-Delmas ukusuka nge-Blomandani. Lapho kuzokwazi bona abantu boke beGauteng nabeMpumalanga abasebenzisa amanzi we-Rand Water ukuthoma nge-Delmas bakwazi bona bawasebenzise. Kungenzeka bona ekukhambeni kwesikhathi pheze boke abantu bangeMpumalanga nabaseduze neGauteng bawasebenzise amanzi la we-Rand Water, senzele bona indaba yamanzi ingalinge isitlhagise godu ngePumalanga. Sengibuthelela koke-ke, Sekela laSihlalo:

English:

We are saying that the provincial department of co-operative governance and traditional affairs, Cogta, undertook to support the Delmas Municipality in the completion of the water treatment plant. It was reported that the project is now 100% and that the department would further support the municipality with the completion of the Delmas 25km bulk water supply pipeline.

IsiNdebele:

Kizo zoke izinto lezo, isiFunda seMpumalanga sitjho ngokungangabazi bona iveke yokuthatha ikulumo yePalamende uyise ebantwini ibe yipumelelo ngaphezulu kwepumelelo. Nginithokoze noke. [Iwahlo.]

English:

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms M C Memela): Hon members, before I call the next debater, may I announce that there will be two people to relieve me, namely hon Adams and hon Mazosiwe.

Cllr I R IVERSEN

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 531

 

Mr S P D SKHOSANA

 

Cllr I R IVERSEN (Salga): Madam Deputy Chair and hon members, during Provincial Week, permanent delegates to the NCOP met with leaders of various provincial legislatures and other stakeholders, such as local government leaders and Salga. Provincial Week is a crucial platform for permanent delegates to the NCOP and MPLs to interact and engage with various government departments, municipalities and members of the communities and consider provincial and municipal plans and programmes.

A number of issues that requires our attention arises from the most recent interaction, namely the need to engage in consultative preparatory planning; the need to project ourselves as partners instead of adversaries; and the need to have a common understanding on the mandates of all stakeholders.

In the first instance, that of preparatory planning, we must emphasise the importance of oversight visits being well planned and co-ordinated to avoid oversight stampede at local government level. In particular, it must be avoided that different committees from different spheres visit the same areas and/or provinces. It is clear, also from the report, that what often emerges is a long list of problems in municipal areas without assessing coherently if the programmes put into place by municipalities and national government are having the desired impact and are meeting the targets set.

It is important to place the challenges raised into the governance context of municipalities and the provinces where they occur. This can only be done if municipalities are involved at the planning stage and a proper engagement takes place, not only at administrative level but also at political level, similar to the preparation for Taking Parliament to the People. Although it happens in a couple of provinces, it must become the norm rather than the exception.

The NCOP programme, although welcomed, must avoid pitting communities againstmunicipalities in an almost adversarial manner. This is particularly the case when communities are engaged at length about their challenges without understanding the delivery context for those services. In some instances, the programme is also poorly organised, with the delegation diverting from the set programme and engaging with the public in an unstructured manner. It is also critical that the approach agreed to during the planning phase is adhered to to ensure that we come across as coherent government, without pitting municipalities as villains in the service delivery chain.

Another major and consistent challenge with oversight visits to provinces and municipal areas is the often adversarial nature of the NCOP delegation to councillors and municipal officials. It is really a time to clear the air here. We have just emerged from the local government elections and many councillors are new to the government and local government, in particular. One also needs to be aware that many of the mayoral committee members have only been in their new positions for a few months and are unlikely to be fully up to speed about decisions taken by their former colleagues. It is disheartening and patronising and in some instances the attitude of the NCOP delegation is that they don't want to hear a councillor telling them that he or she has been only in office for two or three months and therefore could not respond to questions. They want answers on the progress with the projects and the reasons for the delays and challenges experienced.

In our view, local government and councillors are as important as their counterparts in the national legislature and should be engaged as such. Our municipal officials are also a vital cog in the delivery machinery of a municipality. Indeed, unlike the other spheres of government, a municipality is defined as comprising of the council, administration and community. The attitude of many of the NCOP delegates is thus hugely disappointing, counterproductive and only serves to undermine the principle of co-operative governance and the institutional integrity of local government.

Another key challenge is the understanding of the co-operative governance model and the respective roles of, in particular, provincial and local government. In one instance, on the issue of municipalities and provincial governments concluding memoranda of understanding with their counterparts abroad, a premier indicated that it was only the responsibility of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation to enter into a memorandum of understanding with countries outside the borders of the Republic. While the point of co-ordination is understood, the statement is not technically correct or accurate. Again, it creates a negative perception of municipalities, while there may be legitimate municipal international co-operation or partnerships in place to the benefit of communities.

The role and mandate of Salga as a representative body and playing an advisory and support role to municipalities is also often not clearly understood. In particular, the fact that Salga has no oversight or executive powers over municipalities is overlooked - it cannot, for instance, compel a municipality to do x or y but can only advise and support.

In conclusion, a number of challenges listed during the Provincial Weeks and in the report is an indication of the momentous task ahead of us. It will require, among others ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Please take your seat, hon member. Yes, hon member?

Mr M H MOKGOBI: Chair, can the councillor provide evidence of the disappointing nature of members of the NCOP on the ground?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Hon member, let's allow the hon member to finish his speech, then I will make a comment afterwards. I've noted what he has said.

Cllr I R IVERSEN (Salga): Thank you, Mr Chair. The information will be provided. There are a number of challenges, as I was saying, namely the effective execution of political and administrative oversight in financial and performance reporting, internal control and legislative compliance; sound human resource recruitment and employment practice and budget provision to employ suitably qualified personnel - in other words, fit for purpose - immediately after critical posts are vacated and their performance monitored; council approval for the implementation of sound policies and procedures to capacitate staff to comply with policies and business processes; and development, implementation and monitoring of action plans to address shortcomings in internal control and taking action to address noncompliance.

If we are to achieve this task, we must demonstrate a coherent government to ensure that the spheres of government support each other and pool resources to maximise our impact. The Provincial Week remains a critical platform for seeking collaborative approaches that will bring us closer to our people. As Salga, we remain committed to continuous and more meaningful engagement with the NCOP and provincial legislatures to achieve this objective.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Thank you, hon member. I have noted the serious remarks you have made about the NCOP and the conduct of some members when doing oversight. We have a unit in the NCOP called Intergovernmental Relations and it is headed by a presiding officer, hon Magadla. I hope that we will look at the Hansard and perhaps take the matter further because it is a very serious matter to us. We need to really make sure that we follow up on the issues you have raised. I guess therefore that the matter will be dealt with at that level so that it can be finally resolved. In fact, it is the wish of the NCOP to actually strengthen relations between all government structures, including local government, and that we always improve. Thank you very much. Order, hon members!

Mr S H PLAATJIE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 532

 

Cllr I R IVERSEN

 

Mr S H PLAATJIE: Chairperson, this democratic dispensation is still confronted with an unprecedented tidal wave of violent protests that have torn communities apart and to some extent created space for anarchy. To date, service delivery protests make up as much as 15% of the protests recorded since 2004, which marks the ANC's first decade in power. Poor and downtrodden communities who protest against poor services and corruption often encounter scoff and condemnation from the ruling party and contempt and brutality from the police, who operate in a manner far worse than the apartheid-era security branch. [Interjections.]

Afrikaans:

'n AGB LID: Skande!

Mr S H PLAATJIE: Yesterday, 300 residents from Petrusburg protested on the N8 because their memorandum, which had been submitted two weeks earlier, has had no response. [Interjections.] The government therefore left them with no choice but to protest in order for their voice to be heard. In addition, the glaring example of Andries Tatane will always top the list of examples of the abuse of power. Ficksburg communities are still looking for answers on why the government responded with violence instead of with services.

There is the widely held notion that in a democracy the government should listen to the people and do what the majority asks ...

An HON MEMBER: Hear, hear!

Mr S H PLAATJIE: ... if that is possible, and where it is not, government should work with citizens to ensure that what is done is as close to what they want as can be. Instead of responding to the cries of citizens with tear gas and bullets, the government needs to advance citizens' involvement in addressing service delivery challenges in our communities.

The thrust of the democratic system is citizen satisfaction. Government has an obligation to deliver essential services congruent with needs and desires of the community. Municipalities should be able to identify and prioritise local needs, determine adequate level of services and allocate necessary resources to address those needs. However, in this process of good governance, we must ensure that people are free to participate and their voices are heard.

Democracy dictates that citizens be given a role in decision-making. Unfortunately, this is wishful thinking, as our municipalities and ward committees are hopelessly dysfunctional. [Interjections.] Poor service delivery and governance remain an overwhelming challenge in most municipalities. Of major concern is the degree of corruption, institutional capacity constraints, lack of transparency, lack of compliance with municipal ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order, hon members! Hon Plaatjie, can you please take your seat? Hon Matila, are you raising a point of order? [Interjections.]

Mr A G MATILA: No, Chair, I just want to check if the member will take a question?

Mr S H PLAATJIE: No, I will take that question at the end of my speech.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Thank you. Continue.

Mr S H PLAATJIE: These factors affect the functioning of municipalities tremendously. These governance challenges require robust intervention by national government. The government's slogan "Together we can do more" should be practised at all levels in society. It cannot merely remain a slogan without proper action and implementation. [Interjections.] Municipalities should act as employment hubs. [Interjections.] It is critical that communities get involved, with the support of their municipalities, to create their own revenue within their area. In this way, society can be transformed.

Furthermore, communication between local government and citizens has to be clear and to the point. Exact timeframes should be created in this regard. Municipalities have a legal obligation to provide basic services to the community in an adequate and timeous fashion. Corruption is the biggest threat facing proper service delivery to date. The citizens of South Africa will always get the short end of the stick if corruption is always ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order, hon member!

Mr S H PLAATJIE: Cope can ... [Time expired.] I can take that question now, Chair.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): No, your time is up. Order!

Mr D V BLOEM: Chair, I rise on a point of order. The Deputy Chairperson called Mr Mokgoro to order twice today, and when the speaker of Cope was busy with his speech, he interjected twice with the member who is not sitting at ... My question is: What is wrong today with ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order, order! There is another point of order.

Ms M G BOROTO: Chair, with due respect, there was no speaker on the floor and the issues that are raised by hon Bloem are totally out of order. That is not a point of order; it is a waste of our time.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order, order! Hon Bloem, you have made your point. There is no follow-up and we will continue with the debate. [Interjections.] No, no, hon Bloem ...

Mr D V BLOEM: I just want to call this member out of order.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Hon Bloem, you're out of order. I call hon G G Mokgoro.

Mr G G MOKGORO

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 533

 

Mr S H PLAATJIE

 

Mr G G MOKGORO: Chair, I am not going to waste my time by trying to ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Mazosiwe): Order! Hon Mokgoro, you have been given the floor.

Mr G G MOKGORO: As members of this House, the NCOP, will recall, we embarked on an intensive five-day programme from 12 to 16 September 2011, where we undertook oversight visits and interacted with communities in all our respective provinces. I suspect that our visit to the Northern Cape was even more challenging due to the vastness of the province and the long distances between the areas visited. However, I must indicate at the outset that going back to the people and listening and interacting with them was indeed interesting and motivating.

Since our previous visit to the province, a lot has been done and more is happening as I speak. [Interjections.] Progress has been made in the areas of community development, sports, the arts, culture, education, health, social development, public works, economic development, etc. Of greater importance is the alignment of work to the key priorities of government and the focus on job creation and service delivery. To cite just a few examples of progress made, the Kenhardt water project was established to provide water to both Kenhardt and Levitsville. This project comprises a reservoir with a capacity of 966 kilolitres. It is estimated that it will satisfy local water needs for the next 25 years.

However, regarding the floods that hit the Upington area and left great devastation, the issue has need yet been attended to. Money has to be transferred from Treasury and that has not yet happened – and we are facing another rainy season.

The Riemvasmaak Clinic provides primary health care services to a number of surrounding areas, including commercial farms where the population varies from a 100 to 300 people per farm. The clinic also provides a basic health care service to Vredesvallei, where there is no structure or facility to assist with the provision of basic health care services to the community at the moment. By now, an ambulance services should be operating at the clinic, for it was indicated that it would be available by October.

There are three agricultural projects in Riemvasmaak: a kraal project, water for livestock and the upgrading of outer fencing in communal areas. About 23 farms of 46 hectares each were purchased and windmills erected. Two people have been trained as welders and will be provided with welding equipment to do repairs on the project. An extension officer was also appointed to engage with auctioneers to facilitate livestock auctioneering.

A new hospital is under construction in Upington and will provide quality health care at level 1 and 2. It will also accommodate referrals from the western region of the province. This will include the municipalities of Nama Khoi, Hantam, Richtersveld, Kamiesberg and Kai-Ma, not forgetting the areas like Alexander Bay, Springbok and De Aar. The hospital will have 267 beds, 50 beds in the TB unit and four beds for psychiatric patients. This will also be equipped with the latest medical technology such as a CD scanner. There will be a renal dialysis unit, an oncology unit, five operating theatres and an intensive care unit designed to the latest specifications. Other facilities at the hospital will include a district pharmacy and a forensic mortuary. The hospital will be energy efficient to reduce electricity usage from six to three megawatts.

Having seen and heard about all these developments, we realise that a lot has indeed been done, but one must also admit that we still need to do more. There are still challenges in regard to water supply and purification, and there are delays in the completion of projects. TB is still a threat and the backlog in the maintenance of roads remains. We need to fight poverty more effectively, and many other problematic areas remain.

In conclusion, the 2009 ANC manifesto identified five key priority areas for this government: the creation of decent jobs and sustainable livelihoods, health care, rural development, crime and education. The visit to the Northern Cape illustrates and is testimony to real delivery towards achieving these key priority areas. Clearly people are benefiting from the robust and accelerated implementation of the ANC manifesto in the Northern Cape, which is a mostly rural, poor and vast province. [Interjections.]

The report proves that we are dealing with health care, rural development, education and crime. However, more should be done to accelerate the provision of institutions of higher education, so ensuring tertiary education for the youth. We should also do more to provide sustainable livelihoods and decent jobs. In this regard, the mining sector must be the catalyst. In order to do more, we must continue to work together. [Applause.]

Mr A MOTHUPI

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 534

 

Mr G G MOKGORO

 

Mr A MOTHUPI (North West): Chairperson, hon members, distinguished guests, it gives me great pleasure to participate in the debate about the NCOP's oversight visit to our province. This debate takes place at a time when our country observes 16 Days of Activism for No Violence Against Women and Children as well as the 17th Conference of the Parties, COP 17, of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. The primary objective of the conference is to reach an agreement on how to deal effectively with climate change in a fair manner on a global level. In this way, it will address the threat that climate change poses to human development and growth. Also, we will be commemorating World Aids Day on 1 December and our government's message of the "ABC principle" needs to be sustained at all cost. To achieve that objective, we have to stop the spread of HIV in order to reduce the rate of new infections. Prevention is our most powerful weapon against this epidemic.

I also want to welcome that the new Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, hon Richard Baloyi, recently announced the new Municipal Infrastructure Support Agency, Misa, which aims to support service delivery and enhance capacity in municipalities. We hope that the department will be able to accelerate service delivery through their five programmes, namely municipal infrastructure assessment and diagnosis of the challenges to find solutions that are viable and sustainable; provision of municipal infrastructure capacity support and municipal infrastructure implementation support.

As part of its constitutional role in strengthening accountability in our public representatives or three spheres of government, namely national, provincial and local, the National Council of Provinces visited our province on 12 to 16 September 2011 in the Bojanala district, in Moses Kotane Local Municipality in order to receive update reports from the provincial government on progress made on service delivery programmes. This is done to afford the NCOP the opportunity to ensure that the provinces and municipalities put in place measures and programmes to address recommendations made in the last financial year under review.

In its observations, after presentations by different departments, including the Office of the Premier, the NCOP delegation noted that there are areas that need great improvement in certain departments, particularly those departments that bear the responsibility of advancing the five key priorities of government. For example, the delegation noted with serious concern that many departments in the province operated with acting heads of department, HODs, including the Office of the Premier. This lead to a number of service delivery programmes being affected badly because there is no measurement of performance. However, the House has to be informed that the hon premier has a made strides in this regard by recently appointing three HODs, namely for agriculture, health and sports. [Applause.]

There is also a serious gap in the area of monitoring and evaluation of rural development pilot projects, particularly the Makgalwane project.

In addressing the call by the President of the Republic, hon Jacob Zuma, in his state of the nation address, when he made a commitment that government would fill all funded vacant posts – in particular with regard to the challenges confronting our municipalities in the provinces - we agree with the recommendations of the NCOP delegates that the Department of Local Government and Traditional Affairs will have to assist municipalities to accelerate the process of recruiting qualified municipal managers, chief financial officers, CFOs, engineers and planners. Critically, the Department of Finance also needs to roll out qualified accounting practices to ensure that generally accepted accounting principles are implemented to assist municipalities and to ensure that a clean audit by 2014 is realisable. Provincial government must work harder to employ the right people with qualifications and skills appropriate and relevant to the posts, especially heads of departments, to improve service delivery.

We also support the recommendations of the committee that the North West Development Trust Act, Act 7 of 1997, should be repealed and the responsibilities of the trust taken over by the Youth Development Agency. This will assist in ensuring a joint commitment towards the advocating of youth development.

We further acknowledge that a number of MECs have not been attending plenaries of the NCOP. We believe that improvement in this regard is needed to ensure accountability and also to increase participation by sector departments to avoid visits by the NCOP, thereby enabling the NCOP to be productive.

In welcoming the resuscitation of the intergovernmental structures in the province, it should be appreciated that all spheres of government are distinctive, interdependent and interrelated. One of the pervasive challenges facing government in our country is its endemic failure to observe the principle of unity of purpose. This principle of intergovernmental relations was not conceived purely for academic purpose, but with a well defined and progressive intent.

With regard to the roads in the province, we agreed with the delegation that the roads in our province need special attention

In conclusion, we agreed with the committee that efforts were being made to provide continuous and comprehensive support to institutions of traditional affairs in order to ensure that intended objectives were effectively achieved. In regard to leaner transport, we agreed with the recommendations that the departments of education, public works and transport needed to have a memorandum of understanding to resolve this matter, because this problem was reported last year.

We support the recommendations of the NCOP on its oversight visit to our province. I just want to inform the House that the report has been tabled in the House. The resolutions will be taken by the House so that members of the executive are able to undertake these responsibilities. Lastly, I wish you a blessed festive season and may God bless you richly. [Applause.]

Mr M OZINSKY

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 535

 

Mr A MOTHUPI

 

Mr M OZINSKY: Chairperson, hon members and delegates, thank you for the opportunity to participate in this debate. I want to use my turn to expose some of the issues that are not properly reported in the report from the Western Cape.

Let me start off by dealing with the issues of preparations for the visit. The Chief Whip of the provincial legislature stressed the importance of preparation in order for the visit to succeed. However, in our visit week, preparations had not been made properly and this led to serious problems, some of which are actually reflected in the report that is tabled here today. For instance, we were supposed to visit farmworkers in De Doorns, but by the time we got there, those farmworkers had left because they had been waiting for a long time. That happened because the programme was not properly arranged.

Secondly, there was also a part of the programme ... Let me read what the report says, because I think it records it properly:

A presentation on the Farmworker of the Year competition by Mr D Niemand was not attended by members of the ANC, as the Chief Whip of the NCOP expressed the view that the presentation was not part of the programme. The visit to Black Economic Empowerment, BEE, farms with Mr Kriel consequently took place during the late afternoon.

Well, firstly, it shocks me that the programme could not have been properly sorted out between the legislature and the Chief Whip of the NCOP, who was part of the visit. In addition, the second part – where Mr Kriel was supposed to explain about the farms – was also cancelled. This meant that we were actually not able to see the true reality of the problems around BEE on the farms of the Western Cape and the way in which that continues to be used to exploit poor, mainly black farmworkers.

The second problem with the preparations – and this relates to what hon Iversen from the South African Local Government Association, Salga, said - is that we went to two housing projects in Paarl, actually in Mbekweni, which is part of the Drakenstein Municipality. After visiting the people in those housing projects, we went to a public meeting where the mayoral committee, Mayco, member for housing refused to respond to the issues that citizens were raising. This refusal led to the disruption of the meeting by the people – the citizens - who were in the meeting and nearly led to the delegation being held hostage. That problem was caused directly by the Mayco member for housing in that municipality.

Now, for Mr Iversen to come and say here what the Mayco member had said in Drakenstein - that she had been a Mayco member for only three or four months so she can't respond to the questions - is to completely undermine the process of the NCOP, because even if you've been there for only three months, you should have read the reports on those housing projects before the NCOP went to those projects. [Interjections.] You should have read the reports from the community participation processes on those projects - these are handed over to Mayco members when they take power.

What is very interesting is that the mayor of Drakenstein has also been a counsellor for only few months, but when the Mayco member refused to answer the questions, the Mayor, who has been there for the same period of time as the Mayco member, was able to step in and tried to answer the questions. It is precisely this kind of behaviour - of counsellors refusing to take the NCOP seriously, of counsellors refusing to take the ratepayers and the citizens of their own towns seriously - that creates big problems. I can tell you, that problem is still not resolved, even though we went there in September as part of the visit. On Sunday past, there was another mass meeting in that area and people are again considering whether to occupy that land illegally. In my mind, all this goes back to the refusal of a counsellor to address the community in a particular area.

Complete disregard was also shown by the provincial government for the programme of the NCOP. For instance, the first point on the programme for the visit was a briefing by the provincial cabinet on their response to the NCOP's Taking Parliament to the People visit report from 2007. Not one member of the provincial cabinet was present at that meeting. [Interjections.] It was left to an official of the premier's department to respond to the report. In the end that official admitted that they were unable to respond to the report. That meeting was then postponed to the Friday of the visit week and on that Friday most of the MECs were again not present. Some MECs who were expected to be there were meeting white farmers, while they were supposed to be in that meeting ... [Interjections.] ... because that was subsequently reported in the press – that they had an engagement with those farmers. They were, however, not present when the NCOP was there. And that, you can then see, is reflected in the first part of the Western Cape report, which says that the officials were unable to respond to the issues raised.

The premier of the province had arranged a premier's co-ordinating forum meeting for the first two days of the visit week, which is why the MECs were not part of the visit week. But it also meant that when we went to various municipalitiesl like the Stellenbosch Municipality and the Breede River Municipality, the mayors were not able to be present in our meeting because they were in the premier's co-ordinating forum meeting. So, then we were unable to get proper answers to the questions that were raised. [Interjections.]

Mr W F FABER: Chair, I want to know if the hon Ozinsky would take a question.

Mr M OZINSKY: Chair, if I have time at the end, I'm willing to take any question. Let me continue.

The report also doesn't reflect a number of issues that were agreed on in the delegation meeting. For instance, the issues of the Klapmuts School, the issues around BEE and the issues around housing in Paarl were agreed on in the meeting but are not reflected in the report.

Let me also say that we saw some very worrying things. For instance, we went to this brand-new school, where R12 million had been spent on building the school in 2010. It's a great school; no one can doubt that. The problem was revealed when we were in the school's library. There we saw a shelf of books labelled "English fiction". We saw another shelf of books labelled "Afrikaanse fiksie". Then there was a last shelf of books labelled "Black language". Now, I'm not aware of any official language in this country called "black language". [Interjections.]

The real problem is that in this province we have lovely buildings and lovely schools, but what goes on in the schools is the problem. For instance, the problem at the Nondzame Primary School in Pniel is that it is an isiXhosa-medium school ... [Interjections.] ... and the department has decided that it had to merge with an Afrikaans-medium school, with no regard for the feelings of the learners and their parents. In the case of the Nondzame Primary School, it was actually established by the parents and only later became a school of the provincial department. The department has now been doing everything it can to force that school to adopt Afrikaans as its language.

When you go and look at the school in Klapmuts, where at least a third of the learners are also isiXhosa speaking, you will find not one class being conducted in isiXhosa. The explanation we are given by the department is that the parents, even isiXhosa-speaking parents, are quite happy for their children to be taught in Afrikaans. But there is no independent verification of that fact and now the department is trying at a nearby school to force an isiXhosa school to close and become an Afrikaans school.

Chair, I can also go on at length about the problem of the BEE farms. But I want to say that I met one of the workers who was hanging around when we were supposed to have that presentation. That worker told me that she was a share owner in a BEE farm that is 70% owned by the former white farmer while 30% of the ownership shares are shared among the 100 workers. One white farmer has 70% and 100 workers have 30%? At the end of the year this worker received R800, which is less than R80 per month. [Interjections.] Meanwhile, the farm – which is supposedly a BEE farm – is now being leased back to the farmer who used to own it and that farmer is now gaining access to national resources that are meant for the beneficiaries. But because he is the 70% owner of the farm, he monopolises those resources and the workers must take home R900 a year.

I would like to request the NCOP to spend more time in our province following up these serious issues because if you read our reports, you will see that there are a number of issues that are not resolved and where it is recommended the NCOP delegation comes back. I hope that will happen soon for the benefit of the citizens in the province. [Applause.]

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: I want to agree with the hon member that no MEC was there, in the Free State as well. Not a single ... [Interjections.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr S S Masosizwe): Hon member, that is not a point of order.

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

 

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr C J DE BEER

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 536

 

FIRST ORDER

 

TAXATION LAWS AMENDMENT BILL

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance thereon)

Mr C J DE BEER: Chairperson, taxation is an important element of the economy and the country's fiscal framework. Through taxes, government is able to reach core objectives to provide for basic services.

However, it is important that National Treasury and Sars take note of the recent comments on our economic growth projections by the Reserve Bank, which further suggest that we may not meet the set objectives presented in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, and the joint economic outlook. [Interjections.] It looks like the eurozone effect is on this table.

Let me take this opportunity to welcome the positive assessment of our economic policies by the International Monetary Fund, IMF, Article IV report. What is of critical importance about this report is that it confirms the appropriateness of our countercyclical fiscal policy's approach and the monetary stance of the Reserve Bank, particularly on inflation targeting.

We should welcome the reaffirmation by the same institution that South Africa is both politically and economically stable. Therefore, like our counterparts and sister nations in the Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa group, Brics, we pose no economic threat in the global economic environment. This is in direct contrast with the international rating agency, Moody, which perceives South Africa to be politically unstable.

This Amendment Bill before the House today will give effect to the tax proposals as highlighted in the 2011 Budget Review. The proposals are intended to broaden the tax base in support of inclusive growth. Business will receive tax breaks to support skills development and job creation. Various loopholes will be closed and tax equity will be improved.

These amendments provide further personal income tax relief, the introduction of a third rebate for individuals aged 75 year and older, transfer duty relief and various monetary threshold adjustments, including increases in capital gains amounts. There are also measures to enhance the learnership and industrial policy incentive programmes in support of the Industrial Policy Action Plan. There will be an increase in the turnover tax exemption threshold for microbusinesses and measures to build on South Africa's role as a regional gateway. It also includes new and tougher anti-avoidance measures.

With regard to rates and thresholds, a direct tax relief of R8,1 billion to individuals isproposed. This is done to compensate for the effects of inflation. We call it fiscal drag. Regarding income tax, the impact of the new changes is that any contribution made by the employer to retirement funds will be regarded as a taxable fringe benefit. On the other hand, individual taxpayers will be able to deduct up to 22,5% of their taxable income for contributions made to pension, provident and/or retirement annuity funds.

Regarding medical tax credit, it is proposed that the expenditure associated with medical aid contributions is converted into a tax credit. A tax credit provides for more equitable tax relief. The changes to long-term insurance are meant to prevent executives from using key personal plans as a means of avoiding fringe benefit tax.

With regard to income tax for business, as stated in the 2011 Budget Review, the proposed dividends tax will be in operation from 1 April 2012. Foreign dividends will effectively become subjected to the same 10% level of tax.

Furthermore, a revision is done on a number of pre-existing tax incentives. The requirements associated with the venture capital company incentive will be greatly eased to encourage the pooling of investments for junior mining and small business. The industrial policy incentive will be enhanced for projects located within the industrial development zones. The research and development incentive will now require a preapproval system to curtail avoidance while providing enhanced certainty for legitimate projects. The film allowance for film owners will be converted into an exemption in order to encourage film profit.

With regard to government Islamic bonds, a tax framework that will allow the government to issue Islamic bonds will be enacted.

National Treasury highlighted a number of anti-avoidance measures, including the hiatus of section 45 and ordinary tax treatment of dividends from third party-backed shares. Regarding international income tax and the regional gateway incentives, the Bill largely expands on the gateway to Africa incentives initiated in 2010 and removes the potential of double taxation by South African multinational operation abroad through a variety of legislative measures.

Regarding controlled foreign company revision, the proposal of controlled foreign company rules is to prevent South African residents from shifting income offshore.

It is important to acknowledge and appreciate the success stories of Sars, under the leadership of Commissioner Oupa Magashula and his team and under the guidance of the Minister of Finance and his deputy. I hereby move that the House adopts the committee's report and votes in favour of the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill, Bill 19 of 2011. I so move. [Applause.]

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F ADAMS): Before I put the question, I shall just read Rule 32, hon Bloem and hon Feldman: During a debate in the Council, no member may converse aloud. [Interjections.]

Mr D B FELDMAN: Chairperson, I don't understand ...

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F ADAMS): I will not have a debate about this. You may both take your seats, hon members. [Interjections.] Order! Take your seats. Thank you.

Debate concluded.

Question put.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F ADAMS): That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to. In accordance with Rule 63 I shall first allow political parties to make their declaration of vote if they so wish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr A LEES

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 536

 

 

 

 

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F ADAMS)

 

 

 

 

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr A LEES: Chairperson, the order before us today is the consideration of the Tax Laws Amendment Bill and of the report. The report is a product of the committee, and we do not have any problems with the report. However, I hereby make a statement relating to the Tax Laws Amendment Bill, Act 19 of 2011.

This Bill, with its revenue proposals, is based on the fiscal framework as revised in October 2011. As it stands, the fiscal framework will not stimulate the economic growth that is desperately needed in order to overcome the enormous problems of unemployment and consequential poverty that bedevils South Africa even after 17 years of democracy. The DA has proposed an alternative Budget that has workable proposals that will, among other aspects, encourage entrepreneurial activity and thus the development of small and medium enterprises.

There is general agreement that a growth rate of 8% or more is required if the rate of unemployment is to be reduced to single-digit figures. The DA proposes a growth policy that will stimulate economic growth of 8%. Given the government's lack of realistic proposals to achieve the required growth rate, the question must be asked why proposals from the DA, such as the youth wage subsidy, accepted an announced by the Minister of Finance nearly two years ago, massive improvements in education, zero rating of VAT on books and incentives for domestic savings, have not been included?

The DA does not support the Tax Laws Amendment Bill, Act 19 of 2011, as the fiscal framework forms the basis of this Bill.

Mr T E CHAANE

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 536

 

Mr A LEES

 

Mr T E CHAANE: Chair, on behalf of the ANC, I wish to submit that the submission by the hon member from the DA has nothing to do with the Tax Laws Amendment Bill. It would have been better if it had been discussed under the Medium-Term Budget Policy proposals.

During the MTBPS processes, the hon member did have an opportunity to raise the issue he is raising now, but he didn't do so. On behalf of the ANC, we wish to submit that it is not entirely correct that these taxation laws arise from the fiscal framework, as he wants the House to believe. I wish to submit that these taxation laws come as a result of the policies as contained in the Budget Review of the previous year.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F ADAMS): We shall now proceed to voting on the question. Those in favour say "aye" and those against "no". The "ayes" have it. The majority of members voted in favour.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

THIRD ORDER

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

Tuesday, 29 November 2011 Take: 537

 

SECOND ORDER

 

TAXATION LAWS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance thereon)

Mr C J DE BEER: Chairperson, the Select Committee on Finance, having considered and examined the Taxation Laws Second Amendment Bill, B20 of 2011, National Assembly, section 75, as referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendments. I move that the House adopts the report. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Question put.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr F ADAMS): That concludes the debate. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to. Those in favour say "aye" and those against "no". The "ayes" have it. The majority of members voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 16:43.


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