Hansard: Appropriation Bill : Debate on Vote No 17 - Sport and Recreation

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 30 Jun 2009


No summary available.




Wednesday, 1 July 2009




Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 16:44.

House Chairperson, Ms M N Oliphant, as Chairperson, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.




Debate on Vote No 17 – Sport and Recreation:

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, esteemed members of this auspicious House, our friends and leaders of various federations from our country, especially those leaders who come from the Fédération Internationale de Football Association, Fifa, led by the Secretary-General, Mr Jerome Valcke. I am sure by now, he is no stranger to the South African public. I would also like to welcome the leadership of the local organising committee, led by its Chairperson, Dr Ivan Khoza, sometimes called Colonel Ivan Khoza, together with the CEO, Dr Danny Jordan, and all the officials from the Local Organising Committee, LOC, sport and recreation and other formations that came to give us moral support.

After South Africa failed to trounce Iraq by at least five goals on 14 June, one newspaper dubbed Bernard Parker "Pariah Parker". His sin was that he had accidentally knocked a sure South Africa goal away from the Iraqi net. The following week he scored two brilliant goals against New Zealand. That very newspaper dubbed him as "St Bernard". What can denote the fragility, frailty and fickleness of our sport-loving nation better than this sudden change of heart? A few days earlier he was a pariah and a few days later, he became a saint. A nation that easily uses hyperbole declared after the game against Brazil on 25 June, "We outplayed. We beat and outfoxed Brazil tonight!". In fact we had lost by one goal to Brazil, but that did not matter to the South Africans.

This is obviously anecdotal. It clearly signifies the power of sport in society. It is shows how sport is capable of evoking national solidarity in mourning, like when Bernard Parker knocked that ball out of the poles, but it is also capable of lifting the spirit of a nation to unprecedented heights. Like when we scored two goals against number 3 and another two against number 1 in the Fifa rankings of world soccer. Indeed, an effective catalyst for social cohesion. This fact was clearly understood by President Nkrumah in 1957 when he donated 400 guineas towards the establishment of the Confederation of African Football in 1957, "to unite Africa through sport". Of course, hon Spies will not understand the value of the guinea. It is an old currency which would not make sense to the younger generation, but it was a lot of money during those days.

The same truth inspired Chief Albert Luthuli to take time off his teaching and political activities as well as that of being a choir master, and becoming a very active organiser of a nonracial sport in both soccer and lawn tennis. The young Mrs Albertina Sisulu was driven by this passion for sport to contribute to the community development of her time, to the extent that she became a champion high jumper. So there is more value in sport than meets the eye and many people miss that because it is easily discernable until you contemplate it.

As we celebrate the success of our athletes and national sport teams, let's do so mindful of the lessons we could derive from their participation and the impact that sport has on young people. We should also not forget the role played by those who support them, whether they are administrators, professionals or their parents. They all contribute to the wellness of the nation, both at the psychosomatic level as well as at the socioeconomic level.

Sport is a therapy, a leadership workshop as well as a disciplinarian. Nowadays, sport is a big contributor to the economy of individuals as well as that of the country. Within this context, we can, without any fear of contradiction, declare South African sport well and alive. Not exactly what it should be, perhaps, but very well on the way, anyway. Major events that our country continues to host such as: the Fifa Confederations Cup; the Super 14 Rugby competition; the Indian Premier League Championship; the Netball Tri-Nations; World Championships in swimming; fresh water angling and many more in various sport codes, all positively contribute towards change and unity.

We were talking to the management of the Blue Bulls just before the finals, and they were boasting about the role played by sport at Loftus Versfeld via the Blue Bulls, Supersport and Mamelodi Sundowns who have changed the demographics of the spectators for sport in that very important field. Sport is a catalyst for change. We hope that, as we hold our breath for the announcement of the winning bids for the 2015 and 2019 Rugby World Cups, South Africa will emerge victorious and get an opportunity to once again bring the world together on our shores. We know about the preliminary report of the technical committee, but that is not the final decision. The final decision on this issue will be taken by the International Rugby Board, IRB, on 27 July.

Our support to the bid as government is informed by our belief in our teams and people, and also the need for the development in sport, which must take place in our communities. When we win one of the bids, we should do so as a country and not as a specific sector within our country. This is already taking shape. It was visible at the netball tri-nations when a team of rugby players as well as a team of hockey players came to give support to their sisters. At the Confederations Cup, I don't know if many noticed, many rugby administrators and players were there to give support to Bafana Bafana. South Africa had indeed become one country and one nation.

The legacies brought about by these championships go a long way towards bettering the lives of our people and for this to continue, we must as a nation also continue to give our time, expertise and where possible, other resources to ensure that our country remains a respected global player. This year we present this Budget Vote at a time when one of our sons landed in hospital after a gruesome bike accident. The young BMX rider, Sifiso Nhlapo, has proven time and again that given a chance, the previously disadvantaged athletes too, can also rise onto the bigger stages. We wish him well and a speedy recovery. We are hoping that he will soon be winning trophies again and again. His mother needs that money because we were told how she mortgaged her house in order to make it possible for Sifiso to go to Beijing last year.

Let us also congratulate our world champions in rugby football. Both the sevens and the fifteen-a-side teams are world champions! The SA Freshwater Angling team are world champions! The Blue Bulls are Super 14 champions! The netball team are tri-nations champions! Khotso Mokoena has recently also out-jumped the world in Germany. Team Shosholoza, our cricket team and our young swimmers and athletes, all show a resolve to keep our nation at the top echelons of sport in the world.

Our own Bafana Bafana have also confounded the critics and left a legacy that has made all of us feel proud to be associated with them. [Applause.] We should always be magnanimous in victory and respectable in defeat. After all, that is what sport does to us. It does build very good citizens. It teaches us how to handle defeat and success. Fair play and the respect of the other are very important ingredients for a well-rounded person.

As far as sport and the economy are concerned, the hosting of major sporting events brings economic activity and employment opportunities into the country. The significance of the economic and social successes of smaller scale sport events should not be overlooked, as every year all over the world supporters travel significant distances to watch their favourite sports on a regular basis. Increasingly spending money on sports events have also become part of a broader strategy aimed at raising the profile of a city or a country and therefore success cannot be judged by the size of the federation, but by the frequency and the quality of the contribution.

South Africa has demonstrated a capability of staging major events ably supported by the willing and welcoming assistance of many volunteers and also support from government. It is imperative that South Africa develops a proactive strategy aimed at hosting more major international sports events after 2010. The investment made by the South African Government for the 2010 Fifa World Cup needs to be sustained. This is a legacy we will bequeath to our country and local municipalities long after 2012 - eThekwini, Durban clearly seems to understand better than anyone else the importance of sport in the strengthening of the tourism capacity of a city.

While we will continue supporting the hosting of major international events in our country, we have realised the need for better co-ordination in scheduling such events. This also applies within sport codes themselves. We cannot continue having competing events only a stone's throw away from each other. Neither can we afford to have competing events helping to divide our communities instead of uniting them.

Encouragingly, we have at least seen some co-ordination within football, where their Premier Soccer League, PSL, matches are scheduled in consideration of the Bafana Bafana matches. This is what should be happening in all national federations. What still needs to happen, is to have such co-ordination across all codes through an integrated seasons' planning. Although this might be difficult in some instances, our federations should be able to identify major events that they could plan their programme around.

In striving to create an active and winning nation, our department commits to keep on doing whatever it takes to have a significant and positive impact on the entire South African nation. Our scope is clearly one of nationwide impact with the implication that despite the delivery of sport and recreation at three different spheres of government, all of the actions and initiatives within Sport and Recreation South Africa will be optimally integrated and co-ordinated for maximum impact. It is sincerely believed that Sport and Recreation South Africa can achieve this ideal of making a difference in our nation. We will not tire in our attempt to maximise access, development and excellence at all levels of participation in sport and recreation in order to improve social cohesion, nation-building and the quality of life of all South Africans.

Our flagship since 2005 has been the Mass Participation Programme. We have repeatedly reported on the success of this programme. Our goal is to see funds used properly and leading participation to increase to 20% of the total population of people who participate in sport and recreation, with more sport festivals being held and legacy projects being supported.

While the hub system has had its successes, the creation of employment and skills development for the unemployed youth, has also made a contribution to the creation of jobs in our country. It has become clear in implementing this system of sport participation that we would achieve more if the hubs were aligned with municipal boundaries. Working together with the South African Local Government Association, Salga, we should be able to sharpen organisation and co-ordination in this respect. It was pleasing talking to the Executive Mayor of eThekwini about this. He is very passionate about it.

Sport and Recreation South Africa is supporting development in sport through club development, community sport and school sport programmes. In areas where all sectors are involved in sport development, there is evidence of increased participation in competitive sport programmes. To sustain the many programmes that have been initiated, an integrated approach to delivery is being developed by the different directorates of our department, because we must deal with the problem of athletes who fall off the radar after passing matric and do not get into tertiary or community sport.

In areas where there are no sport facilities, schools are being identified as sports delivery centres for the development programmes of community sport. The existing infrastructure in schools provides a platform for the launch of sport and recreation activities. The revival of school sport and community clubs minimises the loss of talent when learners leave school. This approach also serves to intensify and build community links, thus building stronger communities.

A classical example of this was witnessed last weekend when I responded to an invitation by the Ziphozonke netball club of Empangeni, a model club which is not just talking about the possibility, but that has developed from a school and expanded to the community and other neighbouring communities. It has produced some of the best players at national level, both at the senior and under-21 level. It has also produced some of the umpires and coaches that South Africa needs so desperately. Of course, it has also produced top administrators at national level.

The establishment of clubs and community sport programmes also provides access to learners from schools where there is little or no sport programmes largely due to inadequate resources. We must emphasise that these efforts will not succeed if some of our schools still see themselves as islands in our democratic country. There is a tendency, and I saw this in the North West, where some schools and educators think that sport is an interference with the academic programme, which is the biggest nonsense I have ever heard, because what I have heard since I was young, was that mens sana in corpore sano ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon Minister, your allocated time has expired.

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: ... is a major component of building sound bodies, if you let your children participate in sport. I will leave it there and I will take it up when I summarise. [Applause.]



Mr B M KOMPHELA: Chairperson, good afternoon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon members and comrades, I am going to speak about contemporary issues that we, as the portfolio committee and the oversight committee, pick up in our work on a daily basis.

In pursuit to grant the Minister this budget, which the ANC supports, we had to go through how this department is spending money and the challenges faced by this department. I would like to say, however, that the SA Institute for Drug-Free Sport, Saids, is doing a very good job.

The 5%, in the view of the portfolio committee, that Saids is getting from the Minister and the Director-General, in light of the challenges that Saids is faced with: out-of-competition testing; blood testing; passport testing; and the 3 000 average target given by the World Anti-Doping Agency, Wada, to Saids and the money that they are getting, the committee, the portfolio committee and the ANC feel that it is important that we check into those challenges, because it was easy for urine testing, blood testing and passport testing to meet that target of 3 000. These are only a few of the challenges that Saids is faced with. Therefore, we urge that the Minister look into this matter seriously, because part of that 5% is for educational campaigns at schools. I feel that Saids is giving us quality for our money and we are all pleased with the work they are doing.

To come to the thorny issue of Boxing South Africa - this has become a pain for everybody in the committee. [Laughter.] But this pain, Minister, has been a pain that the portfolio committee has endured for five years. Boxing South Africa has now run for five years with a qualified audit report and the committee has taken up the responsibility to try and assist Boxing South Africa to get of that quagmire. The Auditor-General has given the committee a certain Mr Steenkamp, and we sat from the morning until seven o'clock that evening trying to assist Boxing South Africa in handling these issues so that the Auditor-General does not give Boxing South Africa a qualified report. Up until today, Boxing South Africa has had a qualified audit report.

There is no leadership in the Board of Boxing South Africa. Our view, as the committee, is that the Minister should dissolve that board, because that board impacts on the work of Boxing South Africa, and therefore Boxing South Africa cannot exercise its duties, because they have a responsibility to look into the issues and the running of Boxing South Africa on a daily basis. Apart from the dissolution of the Board of Boxing South Africa, it is nonfunctionary, inefficient and paralysed and it is a waste of our time. [Applause.] We are therefore urging the Minister to dissolve that board. [Interjections.]

CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N OLIPHANT): Order, please!

Mr B M KOMPHELA: Almost worse than the SABC Board. [Laughter.]

Comrade Minister, let me come home on some of the contemporary issues. Both the multiparty committee and the ANC have certain views about how our national anthem is handled by the SA Football Association. In Algeria it was an embarrassment. I will never stand under the Vierkleur and sing the old national anthem. I think we did a good thing in Algeria by walking away from the old national anthem, because it is an embarrassment. [Applause.]

When we attended an opening ceremony at Loftus, the national anthem was cut off abruptly and the whole country was ashamed. Nobody has ever come to this country and asked why we did that. We are saying, either the football association gets the national anthem, or no national anthem at all, and thus save the country from further embarrassment. [Applause.]

Those are very difficult and hard issues that we have arrived at, but many of the people in this country died for that flag and national anthem. One flag, one national anthem unites us as a country that cannot be divided. We cannot be divided because we wanted something to be superior to the national anthem. That is not right. [Interjections.]


Mr B M KOMPHELA: Hon Minister, the historic ANC 52nd National Conference was not a picnic or a convention, but a conference of the branches of the ANC, an elected representative from the branches who converged in Polokwane to do an assessment on the work of the ANC in government and outside government. In as far as the social cohesion and the glue that binds all of us, one of the things that were identified in that conference was heritage, arts and culture and sport and recreation. In that historic conference of the ANC more than eight profound resolutions were reached. One of the most important resolutions was when the ANC called upon the Minister to have one national emblem, one national anthem and one flag for this country in order to bind us. One of the things observed by the ANC in that conference was that there were no facilities since the advent of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, because it is taking the money allocated to sport for building facilities. We are urging that it be resolved for that money to come back to sport so that, when we talk about development, we must have contributed to the basic facilities for our children for it to work. [Applause.]

The other decision we had arrived at there was that the ANC must ensure that investment in 2010 results in an everlasting community and that our people benefit. The ANC, in that historic conference, said that we support the 2010 World Cup and the ANC must be at the pulse of this World Cup. Therefore, Minister, we have made sure, as a committee, that we support it. [Interjections.] Because we would never have gotten the 2010 World Cup if the ANC did not stand up and say, "yes, we want the 2010 World Cup". [Applause.] Others would not have gotten us the World Cup. It would simply have been a pipedream.

Our own Nelson Mandela, when he left for Zurich to go and tell the nations of the world that Africa's time has come. Africa "Ke nako"! [It is time.] It is important for the nations of the world to look at us and say: what is it that we can do to this dark continent, for Africa, to be what it is? The ANC-led government said we are committed to that and we are still committed to that. If we say we are not committed to it, then we are not. I would like to thank the DA. Before this Cope of yours was born, the DA was behind this 2010 and said that it would have and everlasting investment on this country. [Applause.] These people who are talking too much, have come here today... [Interjections.]

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N OLIPHANT): Order, please! Order, hon members.

Mr B M KOMPHELA: Hon Minister, I want to speak about ...

"Umlungukazi uyandicaphukisa." [The white woman is annoying me.] ... important things like the impact of the Confederations Cup on the world. But before I talk about that, I want to talk about what we, as Parliament and a committee, have given you. We said that a Minister cannot govern sport today, because sport has become a little government in itself. Sport itself in this country becomes a holy cow that pillages and plunders and then, because you are interfering and putting them in line on a national agenda on a policy of government. Sport is not operating outside the political atmosphere, it operates within a political atmosphere. What we have given the Minister was this: In section 6(3) of the National Sport and Recreation Amendment Act of 2007 we said to the Minister that the national federations must, before recruiting a foreign sport person to participate in the Republic of South Africa, satisfy themselves that there are no other persons in the Republic to participate in such a sport activity and ensure that such a recruited person complies with all relevant criteria pertaining to entry into the Republic, as contemplated in the Immigration Act 13 of 2002. We are seeing a proliferation of foreign coaches and foreign administrators in this country, but the Minister has not come to the portfolio committee to say that we have granted these people permission to come and work in this country. That is why soccer bosses and other sports people are saying that there is nobody in this country who can coach Pirates and Kaiser Chiefs, because 47 million of the people in this country are utterly useless. I think that is an insult to the people of this country. [Applause.]

Hon members, if we are able to have our own South African coach coaching the national rugby team, and succeeding to become number one, what is wrong with that? When we have a cricket team coached by one of our own South Africans that is number one, what is that? When we have athletics in this country, a number one sport in this country, coached by our own countrymen, what is it that football has that makes people in this country inferior? [Interjections.] [Applause.]

That very same hard question is a question that the Minister has to explain to the people of this country. How many of those are given permission and are they at all obliterating the law of this country? We cannot leave the people in our country without capacity. If the CEO of any of these federations leaves the country, and we say "no, we don't have a South African with the capacity, therefore let us rather get somebody from Toekomsrus to come and work here." There are no issues that put him on the level that on the day you leave we have this person to take over from you - our own South African that we can be proud of. That is not happening.

The Confederations Cup was a huge success. A total of 500 018 spectators, an average of 35 773 per game, was recorded. These figures are higher than those recorded at Korea and Japan in 2001 and France in 2003. Germany had 37 694, just beating South Africa with our 35 773. This was a success. But when it comes to how South Africa has been put at the world stage, it is quite phenomenal and amazing and I think this was the best Confederations Cup ever and a precursor to the best World Cup ever on the continent. Television coverage surpassed that of the previous Confederations Cup with 198 territories having taken event rights and many countries showing eight to ten matches on television.

I think Donald Lee would at least understand this: A total of 6,8 million people watched the semi-final between South Africa and Brazil on SABC. The game between New Zealand and South Africa was watched by a total of 6,1 million people. Now, let's go international and see the impact of the Confederations Cup: In Brazil on TV Globo, 15 million people watched the game between Brazil and Egypt as it was happening right here in South Africa. In Spain, on a station called Telecinco, 6,4 million watched Spain against New Zealand playing on our own soil. We can be proud to be South African and for this to happen during our lifetime. In Italy on a station called RAI, the game of Italy versus Brazil was watched by 10,3 million people thinking to themselves that only South Africa on the dark continent of Africa that can live up to such and expectation. We are so proud of our country. [Applause.]

Minister, the last point that I want to raise regards protocol. I was pained to see the Minister's wife sitting next to me while the Minister was up there, looking at his wife every now and again, but she was sitting next to me. I think the issue of protocol is something that we have to revisit. Protocol in those games was completely amiss. [Applause.] This Parliament, Minister, is a Parliament that has appropriated R50 billion for these stadiums. I hail those in construction who have given their workers, who have worked so hard, tickets to go and watch these games. I think these members deserve better treatment than what they got, because they have given purpose to this. [Applause.] You see, Minister, when you are sitting there, you are seated next to the Governor of the Reserve Bank. [Time expired.] Thank you very much.

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N OLIPHANT): Hon Minister, could you arrange vuvuzelas for some of these members here, so they can go out and make a lot of noise? [Interjections.]



Mr T D LEE: Chairperson, first of all I want ... Is there a point of order? I haven't even started and there is a point of order already!

First of all, I want to congratulate the Minister and the Deputy Minister on their appointments. Well done, gentlemen.

Secondly, I can't really congratulate him ...


... maar ek kan darem vir die oud agb Jannie Momberg daar welkom heet.


I also see various people in the gallery and here I want to congratulate Cricket South Africa - I see Gerald Majola there - and also soccer in South Africa - I see Dr Irvin Khoza there - on their achievements.

I don't see Mr Hoskins here. I suppose he is busy with the Springboks ...

... you represent Mr Hoskins? I see that gentleman there. Welcome and congratulations on your achievements.

Then, lastly, I also see a homeboy here, Mr Danny Jordaan. Danny, we in this country are very proud of you for what you have done for soccer. [Applause.] We are very proud of the Confederations Cup that you have arranged. Very well done!

Now, to my speech. [Laughter.] I would like to speak about Boxing South Africa today. It was mentioned by the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation, but he did not go far enough, as far as I am concerned. I would today to talk about Boxing South Africa, and propose that it be dissolved and privatised.

Boxing South Africa is one of the government's most poorly run institutions, which is saying something, when one considers that the South African taxpayer has had to bail out various public entities to the sum of R100 billion over the last few years.

The principle that underlies my call is well established. Under the ANC, the South African state has overextended its reach and, perhaps more to the point, has repeatedly demonstrated that it is next to incapable of properly managing public money and institutions.

I am not alone in arriving at this conclusion. The Minister of Public Enterprises, Ms Barbara Hogan, agrees with me. She said the following:

There is no longer a space for state-owned enterprises that are running with huge inefficiencies.

She is quite right. Boxing South Africa is a case in point. Certainly, the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation agrees with me that Boxing South Africa's board and general administration is a disgrace and has been for quite a few years. The chairperson of that committee said it has been that way for the last five years.

The committee is proposing that the current board be dissolved. To quote from its draft report, that it –

... make a determination as to whether Boxing South Africa is a viable entity receiving monies and funding largely from the Department of Sport and Recreation.

You might recall that up till about a year ago, Boxing South Africa's chairman was Mr Dali Mpofu. When he left, he said:

I am very proud to be leaving at a time when we have turned the ship around.

You know, he should have said, "when we have overturned the ship".

Mr Mpofu left to focus on the SABC, of which he was Chief Executive Officer. Let me do no more than point out that the SABC Board has also imploded and the public broadcaster has to be recapitalised to the tune of some R4,2 billion. No doubt, another ship successfully turned around, or should we say overturned, by Mr Mpofu. You know, there was a man called Winston Churchill and he would have said, "some ship, some turning around".

Yet, just five months ago, after Dali Mpofu left the Boxing South Africa, the newspapers would report that, after years of maladministration, qualified audits and infighting, even the ANC government had reached a tipping point. The Minister of Sport and Recreation was quoted as saying this about Boxing South Africa's board:

I appointed them. I need to see them delivering as early as this December, failing which I will kick them out of office.

Why did he make this threat? Here is the Minister's reason:

I must say, I am disappointed by these guys because it looks like they are clueless in what they do.


Net 'n ANC Minister kan 'n administrasie saamstel en dan erken dat hulle nie weet wat hulle doen nie. Dan, om alles te kroon, te wil voorgee dat hy glad nie vir hulle optrede verantwoordelik gehou kan word nie.

Ja, Minister, ek aanvaar dat die raad verantwoordelik is. Maar u moet ook mede-verantwoordelikheid aanvaar. Hulle is tog deur u aangestel. Die mense van hierdie land verwag van u om die regte aanstellings te maak, maar u het self erken dat u 'n groot fout gemaak het. Dit is baie keer goed om te erken dat ons 'n fout begaan het.


It is good, Minister, to admit to our mistakes. Let's talk about your department. Not that your own department is a model of excellence by any stretch of the imagination. To quote a City Press editorial of November last year about yet another qualified report for the department from the Auditor-General:

This mismanagement is par for the course in many other government departments, but it is especially ironic in sports, where leaders can't resist playing political games, unaware that people who live in glass houses should be wary of throwing stones. [Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr G P D MAC KENZIE: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, hon members, visitors and guests, I've got a prepared speech, but the hon Komphela got me going a bit here: Firstly, to the Fifa people here, I feel very sorry for you. The hon Komphela does not want you to work in this country; he doesn't want you to have any part in the World Cup. Foreigners can't help at all in this country. Hon Komphela, what we're really saying is that you can't just have mediocrity. [Interjections.] If the Kaizer Chiefs' owner wants to employ a foreigner, that is his business. It is not our business to tell him who and who not to employ. [Interjections.]

Hon Lee has covered quite a few critical areas, I'm just going to get on to what I believe is a plan going forward. We, the Congress of the People, applaud President Zuma's state of the nation address wherein he acknowledged that sport is one the most unifying forces for our people. He further stated that there was going to a major policy shift in sport in schools.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: On a point of order, Chairperson: I would like to know from the Chair if it is parliamentary for an elected representative of Parliament to advocate in the House the undermining of existing law in this country. I suggest it is not parliamentary to be, as an elected representative, advocating the undermining of existing legislation. I would like your ruling, please.

He CHAIRPERSON (Ms N B GXOWA): Hon Deputy Minister, I am going to think about that. You may continue, hon member.

Mr G P D MAC KENZIE: As noble as these statements were, the devil is always in the detail. For too long sport has been used as a political football, where politicians have used their perverse ideology to humiliate sport federations and national sports teams.

The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation needs to build a united policy that advances national unity and pride. This committee, chairpersons and deputy chairpersons have in the past been guilty of issuing insults and threats to our sport federations, teams and players, which makes us the laughing stock of the world, demoralises our teams and players and causes division in our country in stead of unity. We have winning teams and should be proud of their achievements. They must ensure that in future this doesn't happen again, as players feel disenfranchised from their own country when they are attacked.

Leadership requires that we build upon our achievements, make improvements where we are weak, which in turn will achieve the President's stated goal for national unity as well as the goal of the Congress of the People.

Hon Minister, we are fully behind transformation in sport. In the past 15 years several different approaches have been used to address this issue, none of which have been particularly successful. We, the Congress of the People, believe that the time has come for a new and comprehensive approach to unlock our neglected sport talent in the country that has been severely neglected over the past several years. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N B GXOWA): Order please!

Mr G P D MAC KENZIE: Sport must be brought to our schools, both rural and urban ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N B GXOWA): Order, hon members.

Mr G P D MAC KENZIE: I am sorry the hon member has to get someone else to write his speeches.

... with facilities that enable students to participate and we must provide sport administrators, teachers and coaches to ensure that they have proper mentors. In KwaZulu-Natal alone, less than 5% of government schools have sport facilities of any kind. This is shocking indictment on our government and we should be ashamed. Sport provides not only the opportunity to discover talent, but also a healthy lifestyle and discipline in the way we live our lives. It further encourages youngsters not to get involved in criminal activities brought on by ill discipline, no direction and boredom.

The reason previously disadvantaged sport men and women are not coming through into our representative teams as they should is because they haven't had many opportunities. We as Cope propose a joint venture between government and the private sector to provide fields, facilities, coaching and mentorship to bridge the gap between those who have opportunities and those who don't. The establishment of various sport academies and satellite centres of sport excellence in urban and rural areas will help unlock sport potential in this country.

Arsne Wenger, the famous Arsenal football coach, once stated that if a young person had not developed his or her technical skill by the age of 14, it would be highly unlikely that he or she would be successful at professional club or international level. This highlights our point of reaching our young people. We also believe that women in sport should be given more prominence and that greater equalities should be attained amongst our young people. If children in Butterworth and Jozini had the same opportunities as others more fortunate, we would never again have calls for quotas in sport. [Interjections.]

Furthermore, we need a system of tracking and monitoring our best talent, I think the Minister referred to that. I recently discovered a young rugby player living in Grahamstown who is talented, but fell through the cracks. He is now with the Sharks Academy, but there are many others who are less fortunate. I believe he could be the next Breyton Paulse.

We support the Budget Vote, but we will pursue funds aggressively in the next fiscal year, much of which is currently allocated to World Cup infrastructure, to be allocated to the development of infrastructure for sport facilities in our schools and clubs in order to create a winning nation.

The last time I was in Umlazi there was a bit of an uproar at the hostels. I have been there ... [Time Expired.] [Applause.]



Mr E J LUCAS: Chairperson, I would like to begin by congratulating Bafana Bafana on an outstanding display in the recent Confederations Cup and the Springboks on their victory over the British and Irish Lions. Well done to a major African event.

The passion for sport in South Africa should be utilised, as sport has much more to offer than just entertainment. The potential impact that sport can have on our social and economic landscape is immense. South Africa is plagued by many social problems, especially among our youth, who need and outlet for their energy and creative spirit. It is obvious that sport can play an important role in this regard and keep our youth occupied and away from crime and other illegal activities, but this is clearly not happening.

The facilities and opportunities to engage in sport activities are very limited in our rural areas and townships. The department should pay more attention to this area and allocate additional funding for the construction of various sport facilities and employment of skilled coaches, who will be able to teach these youngsters different sports.

Transformation in sport is very important. This process should start at grassroots level and this is another reason why there must be increased investment in grassroots sport as well as sport at school and club level. Unfortunately in rural areas there are very few sport grounds. This is where the sport stars of tomorrow learn and are groomed.

The 2010 World Cup is the biggest sport event that this country or the African continent has ever hosted. South Africans are eager for it to begin so that we can showcase our country and host the most colourful and successful event yet. The fact that we have just hosted successfully the Confederations Cup and the British and Irish Lions Tour, as well as the Indian Premier League within the space of a few weeks, puts us in good stead for next year's event and proves that we are capable hosts. However, there are areas we need to improve upon and strengthen before the World Cup begins.

This event must not be seen as merely a sporting spectacle, as its success has financial and social implications for the whole country and the benefits it could accrue are great. There must, therefore, be a co-ordinated team effort between various government departments and businesses as well as the general South African public. It is in our best interest to host this tournament successfully and ensure that it leaves a sustainable and positive legacy. The IFP supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]



Mr J J MC GLUWA: Chairperson, Hon Minister, Deputy Minister, irrespective of race, culture, religion, beliefs or language, sport has the potential to unite our nation. In his state of the nation address President Jacob Zuma said, "It is clear that we need to invest on a large scale in sport development. We will speed up the revival of school sports and ensure that it forms part of our school curricula. In addition we will ensure that the provision of facilities in poor communities receives priority.

South Africa's schools sport structures particularly at schools in poor communities have collapsed. Schools should be seen as the key to our national project of transformation. Schools sport structures needs to be made an urgent priority in this department.

During the primary schools athletics championships in March this year, the North West under-11 and under-13 teams were lilywhite, which shows that the transformation we pay lip-service to, still has a long way to go. This is a disgrace for schools sport after 15 years of freedom and our government must take responsibility for this.

More emphasis must be placed on transformation, development and the building of facilities in poorer communities and schools. Therefore the budget for schools must be increased. School sport must be under one organisation with the proper administration.

Chairperson, I attended both the final matches of the Fifa Confederations Cup 2009 soccer tournament on Sunday 28 June. My experience was synonymous with the experience of every other South African citizen. Been there, done that, wore the T-shirt. I used the park-and-ride system, I passed the security controls and sat amongst none other than the vuvuzela blowers.

My experience was mind-blowing chairperson, and there is no way that South Africa will be offside or miss any goals in organising the 2010 event, because I was driving from Rustenburg to Johannesburg to watch the game, and I watched the game started in Johannesburg as well.

To the sons of the soil of Africa, Irvin Khoza and Danny Jordan, we salute you. Those who are complaining must go to Wimbledon where you wait seven hours to go in. I would like to ask the Minister, if he is prepared to pull out his cane and sort out the schools sport in South Africa? Is the Minister prepared to put on his boxing gloves and to sort out the circus in boxing? Is the Minister prepared to put on his soccer boots together with other hon members and show excellent soccer skills during the 2010? [Time expired.] I thank you. [Applause.]



Ms L N MJOBO: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon Members of the National Assembly, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, good evening.

I am going to talk about mass participation and our contribution as a Department has already been trained and recruitment of the youth into employment as activity co-ordinators where they got a stipend. The mass participation programme has already trained over 4 000 young volunteers in sport and recreation. It shows that we are serious about contributing positively towards the socioeconomic health of our country.

The work of mass participation is to increase the number of participants in sport and recreation programmes at community and local levels in conjunction with the provinces, local authorities, national federations, education departments and other key stakeholders.

One of the elements of this programme is called community mass participation. It's a horizontal sport and recreation development programme that co-ordinates and builds a capacity in sport and recreation activities in the provinces through the identified hub; promotes special projects on transformation, HIV/Aids and celebrating national days and monitors, measures and reports on the impact of the programme.

The Department of Sport and Recreation has mainly had to provide the mass participation programme with the resources for the disabled and for women. It is important that sectors of our society who have lived in a disadvantaged environment, like women and disabled persons, be given equal opportunities in sport. These are codes that were previously reserved for males, like soccer, rugby and cricket. We now have a national ladies soccer team as well as a rugby team. Some of the objectives will include addressing gender issues insports and recreation, promoting similar opportunities to all community members in sport and ensuring equal access to all available opportunities in terms of sport.

How do we promote sport to our women with disabilities? Equality to access and opportunity to participate in physical activities should be made available to all, including those with disabilities and chronic illnesses. Sport federations must embark on programmes and campaigns that attract women and people with disabilities.


Somlomo ohloniphekile, ngiyakubingelela. Abesifazane badlale indima enkulu ukuthuthukisa leli lizwe kodwa babecindezelwe emidlalweni ethile yendabuko, singabala imidaniso kanye nakwezemidlalo. Ngakho-ke ngiyazibuza ukuthi isimo sesinjani namuhla. Uma sithatha imidlalo yama-olimpiki njengesibonelo, siphawula ukuthi abantu besifazane sebeyamukelwa emidlalweni ebeyithathwa njengemidlalo yabantu besilisa kuphela.

Le ntuthuko iveza ukwamukelwa kukahulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose kwezemidlao nokungcebeleka ukuphumelelisa izinhlelo ezifana nokubamba iqhaza ngobuningi kanye nokuthuthukiswa kwemfundo kwezemidlalo, okuyikhona okwaba yisivumelwano sasePolokwane ukuthi lesi sifundo akube yisifundo esifundwa ezikolweni.

Lolu hlelo luyisisekelo sokubandakanya futhi lulekelela labo abamanqikanqika ukubambeni iqhaza kwezemidlalo. Lolu hlelo luhlinzekela ukuba iningi libambe iqhaza kwezemidlalo, njengoba kancane kancane lwenza umkhakha wezemidlalo ube nomthelela ku-Asgisa. Ngiyazi ukuthi uhulumeni oholwa uKhongolose uyayihlonipha imithombo eminingi ethi abaesifazane babambe iqhaza ezinhlelweni eziningi zezemidlalo eziyizinhlobo ezahlukene emazweni amaningi.

Izinga lalezi zinhlelo, ngendlela ezibe nomthelela ngayo odabeni lwamantombazana kanye nomame ngokunjalo ukuthi uhlobo lwemithelela ibemihle ngokuphelele kubalwa nemihlomulo. Yingakho nje lezi zinhlelo kade zingahlinzekelelwe abakhubazekile, yingakho nje iNingizimu Afrika isineqembu labagijimi abakhubazekile ... [Kwaphela isikhathi.] [Ihlombe.]




Mnr W D SPIES: Voorsitter, "Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika" [God seën Suid-Afrika.]is seker die bekendste Xhosa woorde. Dit is 'n roepstem van die mense van Suid-Afrika dat God die kontinent sal seën. My skoonmoeder het jare lank sendingwerk in die Oos-Kaap gedoen en sy het my vertel dat hierdie lied van Enoch Sontonga, wat jare later die nasionale lied van Suid-Afrika sou word, selfs in die Xhosa psalm- en gesangeboek opgeneem is. Sy het die woorde dus goed geken, lank voordat dit amptelike erkenning geniet het.

Suid-Afrika is inderdaad 'n land van baie wonderwerke. Ek glo dat baie wonderwerke wat in die jare verby is en wat hier in Suid-Afrika gebeur het, juis te danke is aan die feit dat Suid-Afrikaners daagliks bid dat God ons land sal seën.

Die nasionale simbole van Suid-Afrika is baie kosbaar en dít wat daardeur gesimboliseer word, moet beskerm word met alles wat ons het. Toe daar in 1994 besluit is op 'n nasionale lied vir Suid-Afrika, is daar ooreengekom op 'n kombinasie van Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika en Die Stem. Die simboliek wat hieruit geneem is, is die feit dat daar in Suid-Afrika ruimte gelaat word vir al sy gemeenskappe en vir die volle prentjie van die geskiedenis.

Toe President Zuma in sy staatsrede die Springbokke én Bafana Bafana én die Blou Bulle geluk gewens het met hul onderskeie sportprestasies het hy iets laat blyk van wat wel moontlik is, naamlik dat daar ruimte vir al hierdie simbole is. Dit wys dat die erkenning van een nie noodwendig op die miskenning van die ander neerkom nie. Dit behels 'n Suid-Afrika wat ruimte laat vir beide die Springbokke en Bafana Bafana; 'n Suid-Afrika wat ruimte laat vir 'n Butana Kompela en vir 'n Pieter Mulder; vir 'n Afrikaner sowel as 'n Afrikaan. Juis hierin lê nog 'n potensiële wonderwerk opgesluit.

Daarom was dit jammer dat die organiseerders van die openingseremonie van die Konfederasiebeker-toernooi slegs 'n verkorte weergawe van die nasionale lied, waaruit 'n gedeelte van Die Stem weggelaat is, gespeel het. Ons is dankbaar dat dié voorval hom nie weer sal herhaal nie.

Die suksesvolle afloop van die Konfederasiebeker-toernooi en die moedige spel van Bafana Bafana het vir die eerste maal mense laat insien dat Suid-Afrika van die Sokkerwêreldbekertoernooi volgende jaar 'n reuse sukses kan maak. Ons glo dit is moontlik en ons wens die Minister, Adjunkminister en die plaaslik reëlingskomitee alle sukses daarmee toe.

Voorsitter, vyf jaar gelede het ek my eerste toespraak in hierdie Parlement - juis hier in die sportdebat - gemaak. Vandag lewer ek my laaste toespraak in dieselfde debat. Ek tree DV op 31 Augustus 2009 as LP uit. In die toekoms sal ek die stryde wat ek hier gestry het op ander forums voortsit, en dit in die burgerlike samelewing. Die agb Komphela sal weer van my hoor!

´n AGB LID: Ek sal jou mis, agb Spies. [Gelag.]

Mr W D SPIES: In Suid-Afrika is sport nie net speletjies nie. Van die hewigste openbare debatte oor die toekoms van Suid-Afrika is, ironies genoeg, juis oor sport en sportgebeure gevoer. Ek dink dit is omdat daar soveel simboliek in sport opgesluit lê. As die Springbokke teen Engeland of die Britse Leeus speel, word die Anglo-Boereoorlog oorbaklei, en gelukkig het ons die laaste rondte gewen.

Maar dit is juis daarom dat hierdie debatte nie ligtelik opgeneem moet word nie. Wanneer ek vandag van u afskeid neem, is dit my wens dat ons die debatte sal voortsit, dat die debatte gesond en lewendig sal bly, maar dat ons altyd sal onthou dat dít wat hier gesê word, 'n reuse impak op die mense daar buite het.

Ek wens u elkeen alles van die beste toe. Mag God Suid-Afrika en al sy mense seën en mag Hy elkeen van u se paaie voorspoedig maak, en mag ons nog baie wonders in hierdie land van ons sien. Ek dank u. [Applous.]



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, I am honoured to continue to support Mfundisi Stofile as we march, not only to 2010, but beyond. I am also delighted that another key part of the team is in place and my congratulations to the chairperson of the portfolio committee and the portfolio committee. We are looking forward to be working with them closely, as we did in the past.

We have to say that we are in full agreement, hon Kopela when you talked about the role of the South African Institute for Drug-free Sport, Saids, and the laboratory in Bloemfontein and the role that they are playing in combating the scourge of doping in sport. We are in absolute agreement that they are doing a sterling job and we need to support them wherever we can to make sure that we eradicate this scourge of doping. When you talk about boxing, we are in absolute agreement. I was partly in agreement with the hon Lee, and we are dealing with that. The Minister is taking action and we are dealing with that very proactively. However, hon Lee, you disappointed me a little bit towards the end. You did not read the Act. This is why the Minister is taking action in a particular route and will come to the committee to ask for your assistance and support there to amend the Act to give him the enabling powers to do what we know he wants to do.

As far as the national emblems and the National Anthem is concerned, when we spoke to South African Football Association, Safa, they immediately, hon Komphela, corrected their mistakes. As we speak, we can say that all sport codes are now conforming to the resolutions taken and they all have the National Emblem on the left of the chest. [Applause.] Hon Mac Kenzie, you are a new member here, I wish you a long stay in this House, but one piece of advice: If you have nothing to say, don't say it here. [Laughter.] [Applause.]


Aan die agb Spies, vriend, ons wens jou sterkte toe waar jy heen gaan. Ek hoop jy gaan 'n positiewe bydrae lewer. Ek glo ons sal weer van jou hoor. Ons kantoordeur bly oop en ek weet ek en die Minister skuld jou 'n koppie tee, so neem daardie uitnodiging aan voor 31 Augustus, asseblief.


Chairperson, the President in his state of the nation address said:

Sport is a powerful nation-building tool. Working together, we must support all our national teams, from Bafana Bafana to the Proteas and the Springboks; from Banyana Banyana to the Paralympians.

In this time of relative depression, sport has become a panacea for our people who remain sports-mad. We have had the privilege of being exposed to a surplus of sport taking place recently at an international level with our cricket team giving a more than creditable performance losing to the eventual winners of the International Cricket Council's T20 World Championships; the Springboks outperforming the British and Irish Lions – not once, but twice and Saturday again, I hope - and Bafana Bafana meeting their destiny against Brazil, the hosts of the 2014 Fifa World Cup and then Spain in the3rd and 4th playoff in the 2009 Fifa Confederations Cup. Let me say, we are all extremely proud of Bafana Bafana. You did us proud. You did well! [Applause.]

We are also preparing for the Deaflympic Games, the Global Games, where our deaf and intellectually impaired athletes will compete later this year, as well as the World Games in Chinese Taipei, where we hope our team will perform strongly. We also have the World Student Games currently underway and a host of other events in which all our federations participate on a regular basis.

As the President said "Our teams can only do well with our support." Let me add: With the invaluable role played by the media in getting the information out to the South African public, we will support our teams fully, confident in their ability to deliver.

In recognising our teams, we also need to pay tribute to the other quieter successes that have taken place in this country. We have hosted a number of successful events in recent months, which have almost taken place back-to-back – and that in the middle of an election campaign in this country. Tribute must be paid to the security sector for ensuring the safety of spectators and teams alike. This is one part of government's support system brought to bear in hosting major sport events.

Taking but one example, the Indian Premier League brought an estimated 50 000 spectators into the country and injected in the region of R1 billion into our economy with, among other things, over 25 000 bed nights being sold, which otherwise would not have happened; 6 000 flights were booked locally over the 40 days of the event. The fact that this is happening in the midst of our recession, can only be good news for our economy. Of these, 59 matches were broadcast with a cumulative total of television coverage of 177 hours of positive images of our country with the most wonderful backdrops of mountains and seas to an international audience with ratings being 11% higher than the inaugural event held in India. A total of 800 000 people watched the matches in the stadia, 40% of whom were doing so for the first time ever in their life. What an achievement!

There is no doubt that many visitors who visited us for the first time will be back! Not only was this event a boost economically, but it also reinforced good sporting, trade and international relations between South Africa and India. The good news continues with Cricket South Africa undertaking to put much of the surplus they made on the event to development. I hope and trust that, in line with government policy, that a major surplus of this money and funding will be used in our rural areas.

We also had the privilege of hosting the Supreme Council of Sport in Africa Zone IV under-20 Youth Games in Potchefstroom in Tlokwe last year in December, where 600 volunteers were trained; over 700 children in the North West province were trained for magnificent gymnastrada displays in both the opening and closing ceremonies; local economic development was given a boost, because many teams purchased what was available in the shops to take home; and local infrastructures, particularly sport facilities, were upgraded through a much-appreciated grant from the National Lottery Distribution Trust Fund.

I would like to thank our colleagues from other Ministries who contributed to the success of the Games and to enabling South Africa to lift the bar on the quality of organisation. I hope sincerely that the Chairperson, who is sitting next to me here, of the Zone VI Council of Ministers was duly impressed by South Africa's performance, on and off the field. Team South Africa topped the medals table with 56 gold, 40 silver and 14 bronze medals. I am particularly indebted to former Deputy President, Baleka Mbete, for presiding over the closing ceremony.

This is what we need to encourage more of through our sport tourism strategy, which is being developed in close co-operation with the Department of Tourism and South African Tourism. I look forward to the strategy and policy being delivered for implementation in the next financial year. This will ensure that our economy benefits from increased hotel occupancy, more internal transport being booked, more purchases being made and invaluable word of mouth marketing bringing more tourists to South Africa for sport events, let alone the myriad of other activities and sights to see in our wonderful country.

There is life after 2010 and the Fifa World Cup and we are delighted that Cabinet threw its full weight behind the bid by the South African Rugby Union to host the either the 2015 or 2019 Rugby World Cups. I would like to acknowledge the co-operation received from National Treasury in preparing that bid. With government's full support, we hope that the International Rugby Board, IRB, will announce that South Africa's bid is successful on 28 July 2009. In fact, I know that we tabled the best bid by far.

As we move towards that decision, it is appropriate to expand on why this is an important bid for South Africa. We have spent billions of rands on accelerated infrastructure expenditure, significantly on stadia. Hosting the Rugby World Cup will provide additional high profile opportunities to use those world-class stadiums with all the information and communications technology, ICT, and other investments, which more than meet the requirements of the Rugby World Cup, in fact, no other country comes close to offering to what we are offering in the bid in terms of infrastructure. This is where we need to ensure that there is a continuous, planned and sustainable return on the investment made by South African taxpayers. Hosting major events can provide integral support to this endeavour.

The economic impact study done for the Rugby World Cup indicates that the total economic impact will be in the region of R9,5 billion, of which direct expenditure equates to R5,2 billion. The South African Rugby Union, and we sincerely hope that there will be at least 110 000 foreign visitors for the event who will spend, as they predict, at least R2 000 a day. Our colleagues from the SA Revenue Service will be happy to note that there will be an estimated R740 million in additional tax revenue accruing to the state should we be successful.

The value that is more difficult to estimate is the goodwill generated by South Africa in our interaction with visitors and with visiting teams. Add to that the media impact of the tournament being broadcast across the world. Another significant aspect which is intangible is the contribution the tournament will make to the development of the game of rugby with funds being contributed, focusing on South Africa, Africa and the rest of the world in priority order. This is yet another contribution South Africa can and must make to the development of sport on the continent.

I am able to report that we have finally been able, hon Komphela, to implement an initial pilot project of sport for peace and development. The Minister and I were approached by colleagues from Burundi late last year requesting South Africa to contribute a variety of sport balls. We worked closely with the SA National Defence Force and our mission in Burundi and the balls were finally handed over to the Minister of Youth, Sport and Culture as part of South Africa's Freedom Day celebrations in April this year. Ambassador Lembede, who, at the handover ceremony, referred to the work South Africa has done in conjunction with others to bring peace to Burundi in his speech. He also said that the focus appropriately moving from our military support to our support through sport as the respective federations promote reconciliation through sport. How great is that? [Applause.] Their Minister indicated that sport is life. That is a powerful statement from someone who has experienced division in his own country. He said that, according to the youth of Burundi, "When I play, I live". This is a contribution that South Africa must continue to make to our brothers and sisters in Africa. We are obliged to do this for those who supported our struggle for a free, democratic, nonracial and nonsexist society.

However, we must go further by ensuring that our Defence Force personnel and national federations are empowered to leave a lasting legacy in nations who have overcome war. We need to promote sustainability of sport clubs and federations when we leave that particular country. Most of all, we need to contribute in whatever small way to an integrated society which values all its citizens, men and women, those with and without disabilities often caused by internal strife, as well as those who have opposed each other over the barrel of a gun rather than on the field of play of their chosen sport. As Mfundisi Stofile said, it is fine for us to contribute to sport for peace and development in other countries, but he also said to me: Gert, but what are we doing back home in South Africa?

I am delighted that our department has now taken this message on board and is working closely with the SA Police Service on what is called sport for safety. I have to acknowledge our thanks to the pioneering work done by our partners from the United Kingdom: The British High Commission, British Airways, the Metropolitan Police, specifically the Southwark Police Station in London and the Charlton Athletic Football Club. They have been partnered by Ajax Cape Town with the police stations in Khayelitsha and Mitchells Plain; by Bidvest Wits in Hillbrow and in Alexandra; and AmaZulu, who recently joined the programme in KwaMashu.

With the focus on schools, it is imperative that we work with both the police and the Department of Basic Education in close co-operation to ensure that we collectively meet our government's commitment to reducing crime, particularly among the youth. This is a national imperative and we are committed to working in this collaborative way to ensure the programme takes root. I hope that we can roll it out in the near future with additional partners in the shape of our provincial colleagues, the nascent provincial sport councils and local government.

Research in the United Kingdom by the Association of Chief Police Officers indicates that for every £1 spent on youth leads to a saving of £18 on future criminal justice activities. With this return on investment evident in the United Kingdom as a developed country, South Africa can expect at least the same benefits.

This, hon members, bears out what we have been saying for years, namely that the full value of sport is underestimated and with increased investment from the state and private sector, we can at present only imagine what an enormous impact we could have on the fabric of our society. This developing relationship between sport and recreation, the police and the Department of Basic Education is something we will be monitoring closely and for which, with the assistance of the portfolio committee, we will provide budget and other resources for this and hopefully in future financial years.

The President, in his state of the nation address stated:

It is clear that we need to invest on a large scale in sport development. We will speed up the revival of school sport and ensure that it forms part of the school curriculum. In addition we will ensure that the provision of sport facilities in poorer communities receives priority.

The Minister was going to speak about school sport and its importance to the health and future welfare of our nation and the transformation of our sport teams and federations. It goes without saying that we need basic sport facilities in our communities, particularly in our rural areas, to enforce our commitment to rural development.

Last year, I reported on the failure of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, to address the need for basic facilities. I can report that we are making slow but inexorable progress towards getting funding allocated to our department to fund this dire need. Moreover, we need to ensure that the Department of Human Settlements incorporates sport and recreation facilities. [Time Expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr M M DIKGACWI: Chairperson, hon Minister, Members of the Cabinet, Members of Parliament, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, the successful Fifa Confederations Cup has left the prophets of doom eating humble pie.


Amagqwirha, amaxaxavila angayithando elilizwe, adanile ke ngoku.


The unfortunate part, hon members, is that this onslaught does not only emanate from forces outside our Parliament who are jealous of the strides we have made to liberate this country, but also from some among our ranks that we thought were with us for some time, yet they were firmly batting for the other side. Parliamentarians should at all times be objective about our country. We can't wait for the most successful 2010 Soccer World Cup next year. We hope the successful performance of our team will make people who think that there are no successful coaches in this country think again. We have coaches in this country who have won the league. Gordon Igesund has won the league three times. We do have them. Dunga, who is captain of Brazil now, was captain of Brazil in 1994. He was captain and is coaching now. You must understand these things. [Laughter.] You are new here! We have our own Lucas Radebe. We have our own Jomo Sono. Why do we overlook them? The ANC is not apologetic about these foreign coaches. We say: Let us give our kids a chance. Together with this guy, we can do more. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Clearly the road ahead for normal society remains a key challenge and sport is the barometer by which we measure our progress. These principles can only be realised through development programmes which are aimed at facilitating increased participation in sport and recreation in the black communities, villages and rural farm areas. Minister, we need you to give attention to these places.

We must have programmes to develop grassroots sport. It is therefore imperative that sport and recreational facilities be an integral part of all community development programmes. Minister, we want you to provide us with answers to the following questions: What is your department doing about sport development programmes in these areas that I have mentioned; what resources are you allocating to development programmes; what structures have you designed to ensure implementation of development programmes; and how can we evaluate the impact of this?

Furthermore, Minister, how are we approaching the federations that have benefited from their successes in the international arena? For example, we have won the Rugby World Cup and hosted the Indian Premier League, IPL. The Deputy Minister has just mentioned that they have made something like R15 billion. How much of that money goes to development? [Interjections.] We have ratified an Act, Minister, that empowers you to act without fear of contradiction ...


... uyaluma na okanye uwalibele laa mazinyo zikunike wona wasebenzise ayizo false teeth ... Minister, xa siluma nawe luma. Amafederation athi ikomiti iyannila wena Minister usobe ngoba awulwi.


The issue of facilities is a challenge to the development of young champions, especially from rural areas, and therefore the concept of club development, and club rugby in particular, is pie in the sky.

Chairperson, there are still municipalities that charge high amounts for the use of their sport facilities and amenities. In the same breath, there are white rugby clubs that have a 99-year lease from these municipalities, making it difficult for other clubs, especially black clubs, to access these facilities.

Minister, I want to quote from a document which was produced by the ANC on 28 May 1992, Ready to Govern [Interjections.] - and I hope that Cope is not going to claim that one -

Sport and recreation is a right of each and every person and not a privilege. Facilities and opportunities in sport education must be open to all, irrespective of age, physical condition, class and gender.


Sithi bopha Thahla i-ANC iyaluxhasa olu hlahlolwabiwo-mali, babawela ukuba uqhubekeke.


Minister, we will ensure that we employ effective oversight services and the above questions are going to be a high priority for this committee. Crucial ingredients in the portfolio committee's efforts would be to strengthen sport and recreation in the 21st century. The Sport Trust must indicate to us which committees they distributed this kit to, so that we can trace it. They should also indicate what criteria they used. The Lotto must stop giving money to these big federations, such as the Blue Bulls. They must give this money to disadvantaged areas.

The issue of the emblem is non-negotiable. There are not two emblems – there is one and it's the King Protea! The ANC has taken that resolution, sport bodies met in Durban in August and we all agreed to the King Protea. So there is no right-hand Springbok and left-hand Protea. It is only going to be the Protea, like it or not. You know, the late Steve Tshwete once said, ...


... "Amabhulu, abelungu zange basibuze ukuba siyafuna ukucinezelwa na. Bavela bacinezela."


We are better. We are discussing these things with you; accept that we are in power. [Time expired.]

Mr W P DOMAN: Chairperson, on a point of order: The hon member's mike didn't work. Can't we give him his minutes again, so that he can repeat his speech, please? [Laughter.]

Mr L SUKA: Sihlalo, obekekileyo.

Mr A TROLLIP: Chairperson, on a point of order ... [Interjections.] Chairperson, may I address you? I take exception to the hon chairperson of the committee pointing at me and saying to the next speaker, ...


"Theta nela bhulu le-DA esicinezeleyo."


[Laughter.] I take exception to that. You said earlier this morning that we are all hon members here, we are not "broers" and "susters".


Andilobhulu mna. Ndililungu lale Ndlu.


[Interjections.] I'm still waiting on your ruling, Chairperson.

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order! I'm doing exactly that. Can you take your seat whilst I do that? Thank you very much. Hon members, we have just ruled earlier that here we are "hon members". We are not "susters", "broers" and "boere", so let us address each other properly. Thank you.

Mr A TROLLIP: Chairperson, on a point of order: I asked that the member withdraw it, and he proceeded then to say that I'm "hon bhulu". I'm waiting for a withdrawal of what he said because he reinforced what he said and it is totally unacceptable, unparliamentary, and he must withdraw it.

HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon member, can you withdraw it?

Mr L SUKA: Chairperson, it is not "hon bhulu", it is "honourable". I withdraw it.



Ms C DUDLEY: Chairperson, hon Ministers, it is undeniable that sport has played a significant part in breaking down barriers of prejudice, racial, gender, age and income, and despite political interference at times has been a crucial element in nation-building.

World-class teams, and coaches for that matter, hon chairperson of the portfolio committee, begin at the level of schools. The ACDP would like to know what funds have been dedicated to teacher training in sport - if you are listening? Whose responsibility it is to ensure that we have the capacity needed to develop young sportsmen and women?

The ACDP is concerned to read the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Minister Shiceka, say that many of our municipalities are in a state of paralysis and dysfunction, and in need of extraordinary interventions. Hon Minister, how will this impact on the roll out of mobile gymnasiums to municipalities? In the strategic plan 2009-13 of Sport and Recreation South Africa, a lack of commitment by municipalities to build sport facilities, despite government's focus on assisting them with planning and managing facilities, is reported. Are measures in place to ensure that communities are not deprived of these facilities, even where municipalities are failing?

We note the recent comment by the SA School Sport Association, which organises school sport at local and international level, mainly in disadvantaged areas and with disabled and farm schools, that they are no longer recognised by the department. Hon Minister, can you explain what this means and how this affects the development of school sport, especially in view of the department's acknowledgement that there is a lack of organisation in school sport, especially in the poorer schools?

We note that the SA Institute for Drug-Free Sport is considering cutting back on its activities as its budget is insufficient for the new and improved but very expensive testing techniques. While new doping techniques are being developed, funding is not keeping up. This, we assume, could impact negatively on the Fifa World Cup, and indeed on all sport.

Lastly, has provision been made for communication projects to inform and encourage communities to use new opportunities for healthy recreation in rural municipalities, keeping in mind of course the relatively inexpensive use of cellphones to do this? I thank you. [Time expired.]




Mnu L SUKA: Sihlalo obekekileyo, malungu ale Ndlu ahloniphekileyo, maqabane ombutho wesizwe, zindwendwe ezikhoyo namhlanje kule Ndlu ibaluleke kangaka. Sihlalo, kuluvuyo kum namhlanje ukuba ndizokuhlomla, ndizathuze ndidalance kwiingongoma ezimbalwa ezibalulekileyo zeli Sebe leZemidlalo noLonwabo ukuze kuvokotheke kubaphulaphuli bale Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho. Ndizakugxila kwiingongoma ezimbalwa, ezinokuthi zenze ukuba uMphathiswa akwazi ukuphendula apho anako. Ndincome ndigxeke apho kufanelekileyo.Kukho intetha ngabula makhumsha ethi, ...


... "A healthy mind in a healthy body."


Loo nto ibalulekile, ingakumbi kubantwana bezikolo. Okwesibini, inabe le ntetha ngelithi:


You groom a child, you mould him or her and you develop a child to his or her totality, so that we can have a productive nation.


Ezi ngongoma zimbini azinako ukwenzeka xa amanye amaziko ezemfundo okanye izikolo zethu zifedile kwicala lezemidlalo. UMongameli wombutho okwanguMongameli wesizwe, uthi masiphuhlise ezemidlalo ezikolweni, ingakumbi ezilalini, ezifama, ezilokishini zabantu abamnyama. Elo khwelo ke kumele ukuba zelisatyelwe ngamagosa eli sebe, asebenze ngezandla ezingenamikhinkqi.


Sport forms an integral part of the school programme and should be offered at all schools. It should be part of the school curriculum as it is, in essence, part of life orientation. It means that the Department of Sport must tell us whether there is a blueprint that governs school sport in South Africa. Is there a policy that compels every school in South Africa to participate, so that it is not by choice? The National Sport and Recreation Act must strengthen that blueprint for intervention by the Minister where necessary.

On the issue of social cohesion, we need to create a climate in schools that is conducive to it, and certain things cannot be compromised or negotiated.

As a result, we move that each and every school in South Africa should have the South African flag to develop the issue of patriotism. Secondly, we are also moving that Wednesdays should be declared a sport day. Those schools that are so serious about the academic curriculum must start their schools by half-past seven or seven o'clock, so that they can make up the full hours of tuition. This cannot be done alone; surely there must be dynamic interaction between the Department of Education and the Department of Sport and Recreation. They should be working together to achieve the objectives of these goals. Taking that matter further, I think the Department of Arts and Culture should also come into the picture, especially on the question of the national anthem, so that our kids can also own up and be proud South Africans and rally against that. [Applause.]

The development of school sport should be supported by all relevant stakeholders to, sothat we can produce sport people to represent this nation. By enabling children to participate in sport activities, we can identify talent. The unfortunate part is that I don't think the department has a database to track all outstanding and excellent sport people so as to assist them to reach their peak in terms of professional sport.

Also, to have proper sport in schools, surely, the misplaced grant, called the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, or MIG, can be used. That grant normally goes to municipalities through the Department for Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs. We propose that, especially after the resolutions of the 52nd conference of the ANC, that grant must go back to the Department of Sport and Recreation where it belongs, so that facilities can be delivered at that level.

The department must also engage with local municipalities in the provision of these facilities. It cannot be the role of the department alone to provide these facilities. They should be made accessible because there are indoor sport games or codes and some schools don't have the facilities to accommodate those.

I want to address the question of community halls. Sometimes the municipalities charge exorbitant fees that prohibit or limit the participation of our kids in sports held in those community halls. They should reduce those fees. On the matter of talent that I have spoken about, we once again urge the department to intensify its campaign. Regarding participation in school sport, there should be an involvement by all relevant stakeholders. [Time expired.] We support Budget Vote No 17. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr R B BHOOLA: Chairperson. The Minority Front congratulates South Africa on proving its highly qualitative organisational ability, and Africa has emerged very strong with the performance of Egypt and the high quality performance of Bafana Bafana.

His Excellency the President in the state of the nation address emphasised sport very strongly, and we will recommend to the hon Minister, together with the Minister in charge of education, that we shall no more play fools and theorise about school sport.

The future glory of South African sport is dependent on the nursery and the schools, and I am very glad that the school mass participation programme - especially in KwaZulu-Natal - has proven to be a great success. It is very important that, although school sport does not come under the hon Minister, sport in schools is restored.

The former MEC for Sport of KwaZulu-Natal, Mr A Rajbansi, had planned 2009 to be a year where there must be mass participation at nursery and junior level, and there must be a programme for talent identification, talent retention, and the establishment of academies and high performance centres.

We cannot allow sport to be splintered into various organisations and companies that are organising school sport, and the partnership between the Departments of Sport and Recreation and Education must be bonded together. That is the only way to the future. The MF suggests that the Building for Sport Programme and recreation be brought back under the control of the department, assisted by the provincial department. It is evident that the code of sport where they are attending to the nurseries, like rugby and cricket, are codes that have excelled immensely in the world.

We also suggest that there should be a formation of a provincial SA Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee, Sascoc, and furthermore, that those federations that are forming small clicks and calling themselves provincial federations should be dealt with very severely. If federations are not structured at least along district lines in our country, sport cannot progress, and we must ensure that at national level money is not transferred to these federations.

However, the MF is indeed concerned about Lotto funding in sport, which should be channelled through the national Department of Sport and Recreation, once again assisted by the provincial. The answer lies in taking sport to the townships where ordinary masses reside, and not to overemphasise the construction of massive projects in the CBDs, which people struggle to reach.

Every sport in the country, whether it happens in a dam, in the sea or on the road, must be under the control of a recognised federation by Sascoc, and here I am referring to the Comrades Marathon and mini cycle races that are run by private firms. [Time Expired.] The Minority Front will support the Budget Vote. [Applause.]




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, earlier the hon Deputy Minister of Sport and Recreation contended in a point of order that the hon member Mac Kenzie was undermining the law and encouraging others to undermine the law. I suspect that the hon Deputy Minister raised his point of order with reference to Rule 65, which prohibits members from reflecting on statutes of the same session.

That particular rule does not apply in this case. Furthermore, expressing criticism of a law does not necessarily constitute casting aspersions on the proceedings of the House, or undermining that particular law.

Hon Mac Kenzie acted within the confines of the Rules of the House and the hon Deputy Minister's point of order is, therefore, not upheld. Indeed, without this sacrament their would be no debate, and in that case we as members would have much less to do.




Mnr J J VAN DER LINDE: Voorsitter, agb Minister, Adjunkminister, agb lede, agb sportadministrateurs, mnr Lee het vroeër 'n paar name genoem. Hy het egter sekeres uitgelaat; ek wil almal wat hier teenwoordig is, hartlik verwelkom.


The Democratic Alliance wishes to congratulate the Local Organising Committee for putting together a first-rate demonstration of the 2009 Fifa Confederations Cup. We are confident that the security and transport issues that came up during the tournament, as well as accommodation for next year, will be resolved ahead of 2010.

Bafana Bafana also deserves credit for showing a great deal of determination to reach the semi-finals of the tournament. Congratulations to the rugby team with their performance against the British Lions.


Maar, ek moet self sê, ons "coach" [Afrigter.] is baie gelukkig. Hy het die verkeerde keuses gemaak. Hy is baie, baie gelukkig.


Also the achievement of the men's hockey team in the Four Nations Tournament in Russia this past weekend – they have further contributed to our national pride and unity.

It is clear that we will be ready for 2010. Huge amounts of money were given for infrastructure for this event to ensure its success. It is hoped that after 2010 the same kind of commitment will be evident for all the other codes. The 2008 Olympics was a disaster, especially for the normal coach.


Die paralimpiese atlete het ons naam hoog gehou.


And 2012 is just on our doorstep. It seems as if no specific plans are in place for this event, based on the current and future budget. The bigger, professional codes, which are soccer, rugby and cricket, are deemed to be more important than the Olympic codes. After the Beijing fiasco, one would have assumed that the government would have explored reasons for other countries' successes and started with a national academy and academies within all the provinces. An even-handed approach will do much to arrest any demoralisation, which can be caused by a perception that some codes are more important than others.


Daar is alreeds veel gesê van die "drugs" ...


The SA Institute for Drug-free Sport had unqualified audit reports for the past few years. This body should be funded fully to meet the need of international standards.


As ons net na vandag se sportgedeelte in die Burger kyk: Fietsry, die Tour de France begin vandeesweek en ons Saids wil "on par" wees met die wêreld. Hulle moet "on par" wees. Dit gaan lelik wees as ons eie sportlui by die groot sportbyeenkomste uitgevang word vir "drugs".


Finances remain a big challenge for young athletes to attend trial games, training camps and eventually to go on tournaments, as the cost of it is too high. The result is a privileged few that can attend these tournaments. The rural areas are mostly affected, as everything is held in areas where they have to travel long distances.

As stated in the state of the nation address of the hon President, there is a need for large-scale investment in sport development, the revival of school sport, and the role of the curriculum where teachers play an important role.


So, ons moet seker maak dat die onderwysers 'n belangrike rol hier speel.


This brings us to school sport, which should be left in the hands of our teachers and those who were previously from the teaching profession.

The United School Sport Association of South Africa, Usassa, was seen as a structure from the previous era. We understand why the ANC wanted to do away with this structure, but school sport has been left in limbo. It is important to have a similar, national school sport structure.

Fifteen years after democracy, schools in poorer communities still lack a sporting infrastructure – and needs to be rectified as a priority – if we are serious and committed in growing the sport by developing all the communities in our beloved country.


Die 2010-toernooi het miljarde rande gekry. Nou hoekom dan die begroting heeltemal sny, waar dit eerder afgeskaal kan word om hierdie nood aan te spreek?


It is pleasing to note the provision for mass participation in the Budget: Community mass participation, school sport mass participation, love life games and farm school sport. However, this is a noble vision under serious threat of not being realised, unless the various programmes are condensed into one properly managed and co-ordinated programme. [Time expired.] I thank you.



Mr C T FROLICK: Chairperson and hon members, South Africans are generally in a celebratory mood and we could see it today in this debate as well, following the outstanding achievements of our national soccer, rugby and cricket teams in competitions over the last few weeks.

The performance of our national teams have been brilliantly complemented by the will of our people, supporters, administrators and organisers of events, to show to the world that working together as a nation we can, indeed, achieve much more. As a continent and the nation we can rightfully proclaim, "Ke Nako!" [The time is now!]

This is further affirmed by the positive evaluation of the Confederations Cup by Fifa. In the next eleven months all of us must display the resolve to address the areas that require attention to make the Fifa 2010 World Cup the best ever.

During the debate I listened carefully to what the opposition speakers had to say and I struggled to find any ideological differences. It seems that we have succeeded in getting the opposition to converge behind the ideas of the ANC programme of action, and their support in this regard is welcomed. [Applause.] It is also noticeable that the opposition has taken the issue raised by the hon President, during the state of the nation address, seriously that we must rise above petty political differences and focus on issues of national importance for the nation to succeed.

Over the next five years, the contribution of the ANC in this committee will continue to focus on the interventionist role government must play in eliminating huge societal disparities in order to improve access and the creation of equal opportunities in sport. By so doing, we will be informed and guided by our policy positions derived from national conferences and our election manifesto.

The key ingredient of our approach will always centre on the bottom-up involvement and participation of our people in decision-making processes that affect their lives, and that includes sport. It was this commitment that saw more than 13 million voters reaffirming their support for the ANC in the general elections. We thus have a commitment to the people to oversee that our mandate is translated into programmes that will address youth empowerment and increase the number of women and girls participating in sport, especially in the rural areas. Several speakers also mentioned that it is crucially important for the department to realise the strategic objectives of school sport and mass participation.

As the ANC, we will continue to challenge and break down the barriers of racism, class superiority and gender discrimination in sport federations. The grip that finance capital has on access to sport needs to be broken down as it is counterproductive to the transformation objectives of the nation.

It has become common practice for sponsors, businesses, the media and old boys to influence team selections, the appointment of coaches or even determine the outcome of leadership contest in federations. We also need to discuss the issue of ticket pricing with the South African Rugby Union. This issue was highlighted again during the current Test Series between our country and the British Lions. The SA Rugby Union, Saru, relies on market forces to determine tickets prices. Tickets with a price tag, under current economic conditions, of more than R1 000 for 80 minutes of action, is simply too expensive for most South Africans.

This area requires attention to ensure that our people have access to sport events. Perhaps, a lesson can be learned from the pricing structure of the Confederations Cup, where tickets were as cheap as R85,00 for the 2010 World Cup to address this matter. During the Indian Premier League, IPL, Cricket Tournament, tickets were very cheap and made accessible to the majority of the people.

Failure to do this will result in access being restricted to those who can afford to pay ridiculous amounts of money to go and watch a match. On the other hand stadiums will be packed with visiting supporters while locals are excluded. South Africans must benefit from the hosting of international events, including attending these events. [Applause.] And a large percentage of the profits must be directed towards the development of sport in previously disadvantaged areas.

During the debate, rightfully, various speakers across political parties referred to the development of school sport, mass participation, sport development in rural areas and the funding of sport. While successes have been achieved in certain areas, it is also noticeable that we still need to strengthen the South African Sport Act so that we can derive from that a coherent sport strategy, which is at the moment sadly lacking in the country. This plan or blue print must be the glue that holds everything together. It must address the funding of sport and the allocation of responsibilities between the different spheres of government, federations and stakeholders. Unless this happens, we will continuously return to the question of funding and the allocation of roles and responsibilities.

The last speaker, the hon Van der Linde, mentioned that he understands why the ANC wanted to disband the United School Sport Association of SA, Ussasa. You can ask your colleague next to you sir; we were never in favour of the disbandment of Ussasa. What we said was that Ussasa must return to its original mandate. That mandate was to promote schools sport at grass roots level. Unfortunately, the organisation started focussing on just running national tournaments and events. We also said that when they return to it, they must also return to financial prudence and ensure that teachers take the leading role in Ussasa, and not people who are no longer involved in school sports.

As far as the hon Mac Kenzie is concerned, I can understand, to some extent, the comments that were made. It is quite simply because the hon member comes from a party that has absolutely no policies. You must still go to a conference, you must still elect the leadership, and only then can you engage with us in an ideological debate on policies. It seems to us that as you walk from the Marks Building to committee meetings, you manufacture your policies. [Time expired.]

We will continuously strive to get the support of everyone involved. We support this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]



The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, I would like to thank all the participants in the debate for the way they dealt with the issues – not all of them, some of them dealt with them very shabbily. I would also like to recognise the presence in the House of my homeboy, the MP from Qoyi, hon Trollip. I know he wants us to believe he is from East London, but he is from Qoyi, on the other side of Bedford. [Laughter.] "Ungumfama waphaya." [He is a farmer there.]

Let me just answer a few of the questions you have raised. I am not going to go through all of them, because some of them were answered by yourselves. For example, the question of the status of The South African Institute for Drug-free Sport, Saids, as an antidoping or a drug-free institution. It is accepted as such in South Africa, but it is also respected as such throughout the world, as well as by the World Anti-Doping Agency, WADA. As such, we try, within the limit of our budget, to put the resources requisite to Saids to carry out their mandate.

Boxing South Africa, we agree with all of you. Actually, you agree with us, because most of the things you are raising, are the things we raised to you in the portfolio committee meeting last week. We are pleased that you have internalised our pains, Mr Lee. I am not sure where exactly this pain is, but I agree with you, it is a pain nonetheless. We are really pleased with your offer of support. By the way, the Boxing Act is not an ANC Act, it was promulgated in 1954 and you know who was in government at that time. So it is not really our Act, but we will look at what to do to make boxing the entity that it was before 1954 and get it out of the state's pocket.

Secondly, we must be very careful in the debates to not ask Ministers to do anything that would be in contradiction of the law. The DA, as early as 1987, in the debate of the constitutional amendment at the time – although I was in prison, I followed that debate. [Interjections.] Yes, or it was the Democratic Party, your ancestor. [Laughter.] Of course. [Applause.] You must not forget, the DA has been going through a metamorphosis over a period of time. [Laughter.] One of the issues they have always been consistent on is respect for the rule of law. You can't, when it suits you, want us to start ignoring the rule of law and do what seems popular from the nondiscerning. We can't break the laws of this country and we cannot even agitate against them. I respect the ruling of the Chair, but I still think Mr Mac Kenzie has no right to take an oath and then agitate against the laws that were passed by this House. There is something wrong with that.

The other thing I really wanted to plead the members to not fall in the trap of is that of selective amnesia. When members start saying that we are responsible for the absence of facilities in the rural areas - hon Mac Kenzie said that and he is not being truly accurate. We did not pass the Group Areas Act, nor did we pass the Separate Amenities Act. Who are the parents of these disparities? What we are trying to do is to correct that legacy, so we must be very careful. [Applause.]

As far as school sport is concerned, it has been our gospel in this House since 2004 that without getting it right at this level, we are not going to get it right on any other level. This is what we said and this is what you say. We are very pleased that there is cohesion, at least at this level. As I said the other day, the real question here is how do we do it? That is where the ideological differences emerge. When you address the question of implementation to questions of the tactics of attaining this strategic objective. We cannot agree on this, because we come from different ideological positions. I am sure Cope will tend to agree. [Interjections.] Well, my job is to teach them the origins and objectives of what we are trying to do, so I still have hope. [Laughter.]

School sport is the prerogative, first and foremost, of the teachers at the schools. Most of us who participated in sport started there. Without that exposure and the existence thereof, we would never have participated in sport at all. This is what the hon members must help us achieve when we go home, not here in the Chambers - when we go home to where the schools are. That is where we must mobilise the teachers, where we must assist our communities to move towards the reorganisation of school sport, because once upon a time it was well-organised.

On the question of the structure to co-ordinate school sport in this country, I am glad Ms Dudley raised this point, because there are many people lobbying, saying this, that and the other – all of them claiming to be a South African school sport association. As a matter of fact, such an organisation does not exist in this country. It does not exist. If it does indeed, I would like to know when it was formed, who its executive members are and where it operates, etc. It does not exist. What does exist, are pockets, whether they are people who have been involved with the Southern African Schools Sports Union, Sassu, in the past or people who were involved with United School Sport Association of South Africa, Ussasa, the old structures of SA Council on Sport, Sacos, and so on. These people, hearing the Minister saying that we must revamp the organisation of school sport, so that we can budget for something we know we can invest in through an entity that is accredited, all of them are jumping around, trying to claim easy victories, which Amilka Cabral warned against. What we are doing, Ms Dudley, is that from 17 August, at the Minmec in KwaZulu-Natal, we are kicking off a programme to mobilise teachers in their districts for the purpose of going back and doing what they should always do. I know what they are saying about being overworked - of course there is no scientific proof for that. The subjects we took and the time we spent with our teachers in the classrooms and outside on the fields, is nothing compared to what is being taught today. We are working on that and we have started rolling up our sleeves in that respect.

Regarding the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, we have raised this on a number of occasions in the House and we are still raising it today. The present Minister is making proposals, which we will bring to the portfolio committee. We don't think that they are what we want. Somebody said just now that we must bring back Building for Sport Programme – we agree. We may not call it that, because that was a Division of Revenue Act, Dora, Grant, but we must bring it back so that it becomes part of the national planning and is managed according to national priorities.

Comrade Cedric is correct in saying that we have come together in many ways with respect to what is to be done. Invariably we must work together harder on the ground in order to find one another and do what has to be done.

Regarding the ready to govern document – I remember Frene Ginwala was the Chairperson – the member is correct in quoting from it, but that document will only be a living document when the councils and councillors who are in charge of these facilities make it happen. They are the ones who overcharge our children and our schools; they are the ones who sell the golf courses and give leases for R200, which are then sublet for R2 000.

We agree with the tiger, Mr Bhoola, that South African sport is very much alive and indeed the window opened to us by the Confederations Cup and the 2010 World Cup should not be treated like the window that was opened in 1995 when we hosted the World Cup or in 2003 when we hosted the Cricket World Cup. This window must be widened, it must not be closed after 2010, otherwise all these accolades will come to nothing. Thank you very much to everybody for participating. [Applause.]

Mr DOMAN: On a point of order: Chairperson, I didn't want to interrupt the Minister while he was speaking, but I think it was unparliamentary for the hon Minister to reflect on a decision of the Chair. I won't call for a red card on the Minister, but at least a yellow card. If we start going down that avenue, that anyone may give their own interpretation after the Chair has given a ruling, it is unparliamentary.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N OLIPHANT): Hon member, unfortunately the Minister has responded and finished and his time expired. You are not supposed to raise this after the Minister had finished.

Mr W P DOMAN: On a point of order: Chairperson, ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N OLIPHANT): Hon member, just take your seat. [Interjections.]

Debate concluded.

The Committee rose at 18:59.


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