Mutual Legal Assistance on Criminal Matters Treaty & Extradition Treaty with Lesotho; Statute of Hague Conference on Private Int

Meeting report

SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE
6 November, 2001
MUTUAL LEGAL ASSISTANCE ON CRIMINAL MATTERS BETWEEN REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND KINGDOM OF LESOTHO TREATY; EXTRADITION TREATY BETWEEN REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE KINGDOM OF LESOTHO; STATUTE OF THE HAGUE CONFERENCE ON PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL LAW: DELIBERATIONS

Chairperson: Mr Zulu

Relevant Documents:
Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill Amendments [B72B-2001] later renamed Judges' Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill [B83-2001]
Explanatory Memorandum: Ratification of Extradition and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters between the Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom of Lesotho
Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom of Lesotho on Extradition
Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom of Lesotho on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters
Statute of Hague conference on Private International Law
(E-mail [email protected] for documents)

SUMMARY
The Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom on Extradition and the Treaty on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters was adopted.

All Committee members agreed to The Judges’ Remuneration and Condition of Employment Bill with amendments.

MINUTES
Mr. Allers briefed the Committee on the treaties between South Africa and Lesotho.

Treaty on extradition
Mr. Allers stated that the treaty was not new but the existing one was being modified to correspond with international law. The treaty was the same as other treaties that South Africa signed with countries such as Australia, United Kingdom of Great Britain and United States of America. Article two was added to make the word ‘offence’ more general to avoid ambiguities when dealing with a specific offence. Mr. Allers read the purpose of the treaty and the titles of all 23 articles.

Mutual legal assistance in criminal matters
Mr. Allers read the purpose of the treaty from the preamble and also read all the 24

article titles. He said that the treaty was the same as the others that South Africa has signed with other countries.

Hague Conference Statute
Mr. Allers read the purpose of the Statute and some of the reasons why South Africa would benefit as a member of the Conference. In summary the main reason was that South Africa would keep abreast of the participation and knowledge in international affairs and economic development. He also stated that the membership fee was R120 000 which was already budgeted for.

Judges Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill
Dr Basset reminded the committee of some of the amendments that were made to the Bill. The Chairperson read the motion of desirability and the Committee agreed to it. The Committee agreed to the Bill with amendments.

Discussion
Extradition Treaty
Mr. Lever (DP) asked why article 4(4) of the extradition treaty provides for discretion when our Constitution does not allow such discretion.

Mr. Allers replied that the treaty was made before the Constitution was adopted and that the treaty could always be amended.

Mr. Lever also asked if there was a way of crime proceeds sharing between states in cases of syndicates under article 14(3) of the mutual assistance treaty

Mr. Allers said that the courts of involved countries would have to attest evidence and decide which state will receive the proceeds.

Mr. Lever insisted that there should be a formula for crime proceeds sharing.

The Chairperson asked for clarification of implementing article 13(1) as to how a Requested State can decide on two States seeking the same extradition.

Mr. Allers referred the Chairperson to subsection two of the article, which stipulated the procedure for such a decision.

The Chairperson also needed clarification on the difference between articles 13(1) and 15(1).

Mr. Allers explained that article 15(1) pertained to someone who was already been convicted in South Africa and pending a decision to extradite.

The Chairperson also asked what property was being referred to in article 16(1) of the extradition treaty.

Mr. Allers said that the property was what would be needed as a crime exhibit and such as a stolen vehicle.

The Chairperson asked for clarification of article 18(1) of the extradition treaty as to whether a second state could extradite someone to a third State.

Mr. Allers said that was permissible subject to the consent of the initially requested state.

Hague Conference
Mr. Lever asked if the Hague Conference was only to codify our existing Private International Common Law.

The answer was in the affirmative.

The Chairperson asked if the Committee could adopt the treaties.

The Committee agreed and the treaties were adopted.

Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill
One member asked what the word ‘spouse’ meant in Section 16(4b) of the Judges Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill.

Dr Basset said that so far it referred to the conventional heterosexual meaning and that he was aware of the debates on that issue. The issue would be debated early next year.

The meeting was adjourned.