Correctional Services Portfolio Committee Activities: 2004 to 2009

Meeting report

Consideration of Draft Report on Committee Activities 2004 to 2009
The Chairperson tabled the report and said that he expected Members to have gone through the report beforehand and raise points that they thought needed amendments. He suggested that the Committee should deal with the Kimberley Prison. He added that the prisons should not be comfortable places that pampered prisoners, but rather that correctional facilities were meant to rehabilitate.

Ms W Ngwenya (ANC) cited an example of an informal settlement next to a huge shopping mall in Soweto. She said that the Deputy President of the ANC Women’s League had remarked that if such malls could be built there was no reason why poor people could not have proper houses. Ms Ngwenya said that she felt that there was no need to build prisons with gymnasiums and other luxuries for inmates. The Committee should deal firmly with such waste.

Rev L Tolo (ANC) said that children that grew up in rural areas would think that Kimberley Prison was akin to a five-star hotel. He said that inmates who bragged about passing their Grade 12 exams appalled him. Those prisoners were effectively stating to the international media that life in a prison was better than life on the outside.

Ms L Chikunga (ANC) said that the Department of Correctional Services (DCS) should explain to the Committee the wasteful expenditure incurred in building luxurious prisons. She suggested that the Committee should undertake study tours to countries that had Private / Public Partnership (PPP) prison systems. She than asked Members how best could parliamentarians strike a balance between the constitutional rights of prisoners and the emphasis on rehabilitation. She said that the Constitution stipulated that prisoner had a right to see a doctor of his or her choice at the taxpayers’ expense, whereas law abiding citizens had to pay their doctors’ fees. She said that where she grew up there were no libraries or school laboratories. The new prisons had top facilities for prisoners to study, as also recreation facilities. She suggested that the Committee should examine the building plans before the new prisons were built.

The Chairperson replied that the Constitution did not state that prisoners should have gyms, but they had a right to exercise. He mentioned when he was in prison the inmates would be allowed to walk around for an hour as a form of exercise. Capitalists were effectively making money out of the prison system. He said that Dr Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu and others, when they were imprisoned, had eaten healthy food in prison and they lived longer lives. They had not had the benefit of a gymnasium. He said that his words should be remembered when he spoke of the outsourcing of prison catering services. The Committee had never approved the PPP system. This money could have been be utilised for other important things.

Ms Chikunga agreed that the Committee had never agreed to the PPP system, and that SCOPA too had been in accord with the Committee on this point.

The Chairperson said that prisoners had been used when building the Pietermaritzburg and Kroonstad prisons. If the skills of inmates were properly and effectively utilised to work in prisons they could save the State billions of rands.

Ms Chikunga said that the Committee should address the overcrowding in prisons.

The Chairperson noted that the numbers of awaiting trial detainees (ATDs) were the main contributors to prison overcrowding.

Ms Ngwenya suggested that the new Committee should address the issue of remand centres for awaiting trial detainees.

The Chairperson said that the Committee should address the appointment of a new Commissioner.

Ms Ngwenya asked whether the Minister had informed the Chairperson about the appointment of the new Commissioner.

The Chairperson replied that he was never informed about the appointment nor the reasons why the former Commissioner, Mr Vernon Petersen, was redeployed to the Department of Sport. He said that he could not brief the Committee about something of which he had no knowledge.

Ms Chikunga warned that this Committee should not leave a substantial amount of work for the new Committee to tackle.

Ms Ngwenya replied that the Committee had agreed to summon the Department to explain the situation regarding the appointment of the new Commissioner and to deal with other unfinished business.

The Chairperson noted that the Accounting Officer of the Department should brief the Committee for oversight purposes.

Mr M Cele (ANC) suggested that the Committee should include these issues in the recommendations for the new Committee, owing to time constraints.

The Chairperson agreed.

He then asked Members to consider the portion of the report relating to administrative challenges faced by the Committee. He emphasised that the reason for the study tour was to see how other countries operated prisons for women and children, and to study their PPPs. Study tours were serious business within the mandate of the Committee.

Ms Ngwenya said that those who administered Committee funds should treat the Committee like other Committees.

The Chairperson said that the Committee felt aggrieved by the uneven treatment of this Committee by the presiding officers.

Ms Chikunga added that the treatment meted out to this Committee was not fair.

Rev Tolo asked what had happened to Committee funds that were not used.

The Chairperson said that the presiding officers made all the decisions as to which Committee would get what amount and for what purposes. He said that the Committee should express itself strongly in regard to the fact that there had been qualified audit reports for the past six financial years. He then asked the Committee Secretary to list all the reasons that led to qualified reports. He reminded Members that they had agreed, during a previous meeting, to look at the role played by the Nursing Council as health providers in prisons.

Mr Tolo asked whether the Department had reviewed the Curriculum that was used to train prison warders and personnel. If not, he suggested that the issue should be investigated in the longer term.

The Chairperson replied that the Committee did not get a briefing on this issue. He added that the review should also encompass the vetting of all officials employed by the Department.

Rev Tolo noted that the public was aware of this Committee and its work, as it was both vocal and visible. He urged Members not to shy away from mentioning the successes of the Committee. He added that the Committee had been very strong in tackling issues around crime.

Ms Chikunga agreed that there were some successes in the relationship between the Committee and the Department.

Mr Cele reiterated Ms Chikunga’s observation.

The Chairperson informed Members that the report could only be adopted on 17 February 2009.

The meeting was adjourned.