Department of Defence Annual Report 2006/07: briefing
NCOP Security and Justice
20 November 2007
Meeting Summary
A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.
Meeting report
SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE
20 November 2007
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE ANNUAL REPORT 2006/07: BRIEFING
Chairperson: Mr M Kgoshi (ANC - Limpopo)
Documents handed out:
Department
of Defence (DOD) Annual Report 2006/07
Department of Defence
(DOD) Annual Report 2006/07 presentation
Audio
recording of meeting
SUMMARY
The Department of Defence provided a briefing on their Annual Report. Issues of
concern included the qualifications received from the Auditor General. These
were discussed and the explanation for the financial problems was that they
were due to the legacy of outdated systems and a lack of funding for
replacement. Furthermore the lack of
funding had led to major infrastructure problem with SANDF buildings and
equipment. The Committee acknowledged these budgetary constraints and pledged
to assist the DOD. Despite these issues the Committee felt that the DOD was
doing a good job with the funds at hand.
MINUTES
Briefing by the Department of Defence (DOD) on the Annual Report
Mr January Masilela (Secretary for Defence: Chief Director – DOD) overviewed
the Annual Report as per the presentation, outlining highlights including the
deployment of over 4000 troops in humanitarian relief operations throughout
Africa, rural safeguarding and the transference of border duties to the South
African Police Services (SAPS). Initiatives include the establishment of the
Works Regiment in order to provide outgoing personnel with skills as well as
maintaining DOD structures. Audit qualifications were attributed to the legacy
of outdated and incompatible financial systems. He outlined that initiatives to
implement new systems did not meet with approval from government. However strategies in order to mitigate these qualifications had
been discussed and approved by the Office of the Auditor General and National
Treasury.
Discussion
The Chairperson (Mr M Kgoshi ANC - Limpopo) opened the floor to questions by
asking Mr Masilela to talk about the training accident at Lohatla training
exercise base
in October 2007 that claimed the lives of nine soldiers and seriously injured 15
others.
Mr Masilela replied that the Minister had instituted a commission of inquiry
and delivery of its report was pending. He praised the financial support
received from members of the community and businesses.
Mr Z Ntuli (ANC Kwazulu-Natal) asked what the establishment of the South Africa
National Defence Force (SANDF) was and how many people the DOD envisaged as
ultimately being part of the SANDF and DOD. He recommended that the SANDF
utilise the aging force component for re-skilling in order to supplement South
Africa Police Service (SAPS) numbers.
Mr Masilela replied that 300 personnel had been transferred to the SAPS, but
that this was not feasible for aging SANDF members as the SAPS had their own
fitness and health requirements.
Mr Visser added that it had been envisaged that approximately 800 military
police would migrate to the SAPS, but that this did not materialise.
Mr
Ntuli asked for clarity on the transfer of funds from the Department of Public
Works (DPW).
Mr Antonie Visser (Chief Director: Strategic
Management – DOD) replied that in the past the DOD maintained and ran
its own facilities, but that was now the responsibility of the DPW. The
capacity to manage these facilities was devolved to the DPW, leading to a lack
of capacity to manage facilities by the DOD now. There was a R17.5 billion
backlog, with 46 percent of buildings below standard. The DOD had decided to
list the total footprint of facilities in terms how critical their maintenance
was and act accordingly. The CSIR (Council for
Scientific and Industrial Research) had been contracted to help with the
assessment. The Repair and Maintenance Project (RAMP)
had been initiated to repair critical facilities. Mr Visser reiterated that the
money received from the DPW was simply insufficient.
Dr Mary Ledwaba (Chief Director: Human Resources Strategy and Policy – DOD)
replied that the Secretary for Defence had indicated that number of individuals
“fit on the ground” was 77 158 and the number of posts in their establishment
numbered 103 552. However in terms of the White Paper on Defence those numbers
were due to be readjusted to 70 000. The introduction of the Military Skills Development System (MSDS) in 2003
before the current White Paper led to this disjuncture.
Mr Visser stated that the new White Paper currently being drafted considered
this and envisaged a total complement of 90 000.
Mr S Shiceka (ANC – Gauteng) was concerned that as the DOD, and particularly
the SANDF, were considered as generally being visionary and efficient
components of government, yet they were still unable to receive a clean audit.
He asked when they envisaged this and stated accounting was a simple matter.
However he acknowledged that this weakness was endemic to the government as a
whole and stated that the issue should possibly be taken to Cabinet in order to
promote the inter-departmental sharing of knowledge. Further, he requested
reasons why Generally Required Accounting Practices (GRAP) was rejected,
especially in the context of the forthcoming bill outlining a single government
system requiring departmental interoperability.
Mr Shiceka asked whether the DOD was any more satisfied with the State
Information Technology Agency (SITA). He
outlined the complaint that the SANDF is ill-equipped and under-resourced,
especially the Army and the contrasting view that as a third world country our
priorities were development not defence. In line with that he asked whether the
DOD had conducted a needs analysis so that it could fit in with a strategy that
allowed them to state at a certain time that now the SANDF is adequate and can
take on any military threat including, hypothetically, United States troops.
The efficiency of Defence Intelligence was questioned, especially in light of
the shooting and security breach at Pelindaba nuclear
facility in early November.
Mr Masilela agreed that the SANDF was under resourced and stated that they
accounted for only four to five percent of government expenditure. He stated
that that the problem they faced was the inheritance of the badly run South
African Defence Force (SADF). Rejuvenation of the Navy and Air force were
prioritised as towards the end of the liberation struggle, the SADF focused
heavily on the land component. The Army would compose the third phase of
rejuvenation.
Mr Masilela stated that in terms of a clean audit, it was a difficult
environment and that the problems facing the SANDF were endemic to defence
forces across the world, including the United Kingdom. Reasons for this included capacity and
structure and the payment of chartered accountants. These salaries could not compete
with private sector salaries due to the level that these posts were rated as
(that is, Assistant Director). Another factor was skills. The SANDF had trained
soldiers to become competent accountants, but now their leaving for the private
sector loomed. A further factor was the legacy of outdated information systems
such as the personnel salary system, PERSOL (23 years old), which the DOD was
prevented from renewing due to lack of funding.
Mr Masilela stated that these were the challenges that they needed the
Committee to assist them with and which in all likeliness would only be solved
in the medium and long term. He added that SITA was grappling with their own
problems, but that they had tried to help implement an interface between PERSOL
and the Financial Management System (FMS). He raised the issue that post 1994
the focus of the SANDF was integration of former forces to the detriment of
combat efficiency in order to foster reconciliation. Despite these shortcomings
the SANDF was ready and did deliver on its commitments. Mr Masilela added that
a needs analysis was conducted and that missions in Africa were reduced and an
evaluation of the African Defence Space had been conducted. Despite this he
conceded that the SANDF was indeed overstretched in Africa and that the
original one battalion of deployed troops was now at three. Once again he
stressed under-funding and the fact that sometimes they were deployed without
the necessary funding. Despite this the SANDF was trying its best to deliver.
Mr Visser added that approximately R8 billion per annum was needed to redress
funding problems.
Mr Masilela stated that Defence Intelligence was operating well and that as
they did not operate within the country he could not comment on the Pelindaba
National Key Point facility security breach as the security of those facilities
was the responsibility of the SAPS.
Mr J Le Roux (DA – Eastern Cape) stated that Slide 46 spoke about totally
inadequate infrastructure and he asked what they intended to do. He asked if
inadequate funding for maintenance of weapon systems had led to the incident at
Lohatla. Mr Le Roux requested specific figures for the number of SAAF pilots.
Lt Gen Derrick Mbuyiselo Mgwebi (Chief Human
Resources – SANDF) stated that they trained and qualified pilots and tried to
provide incentives for them, but that private companies just bought them off.
Air traffic controllers, flight engineers and mechanics were also in short
supply. They had tried outsourcing but this was not feasible in deployment
zones. Further there was a shortage of doctors and Explosive Device experts. He
stated that often doctors did not leave due to the pay but because of the
excessive workload.
The Chairperson added that despite these policies and incentive schemes this
was still a major problem that the entire country was facing, especially as
government could not compete with the private sector.
Mr N Mack (ANC – Western Cape) was concerned about equipment maintenance and
asked for an idea of the backlog. He asked how many accidents had happened and
how many accident-related claims had been instituted by personnel and
civilians. He asked about the efficiency of early warning systems, especially
in relation to maritime protection of fish stocks. He raised the issue of
losses due to criminal misconduct and the writing off of debts. Finally he
asked about the SANDF’s state of readiness despite the fact that South Africa
was not in a state of war and as such the need for security was downplayed.
Mr Masilela replied that the DOD was engaging in Private Public Partnership
(PPP) agreements. He stated that Lohatla could not be attributed to the state
of facilities and maintenance. Besides this incident there have been no other
accidents. The DOD has faced litigation over medical complications, vehicle
accidents involving civilians and uncontrolled fires in exercises affecting
surrounding farms. Early Warning Systems were operational and South Africa
contributed to the entire SADC region’s maritime security.
Mr Visser added that the first phase of the new ground-based
air defence system (GBADS) had been completed and that with the delivery
of the frigates the Navy’s blue water capability had been enhanced.
Mr A Manyosi (ANC – Eastern Cape) asked what the reasons for
SANDF’s withdrawal from internal duties was and if this was due to a
reduction in the need of their services by the SAPS or due to other
considerations. He asked what the impact of the SANDF being overstretched
across Africa was on internal duties, as well as the issue of United Nations
reimbursement for expenditure on peacekeeping operations. As 99.64% of the
budget had been spent, how did the DOD plan on making it through the rest of
the financial year? Also why were personnel leaving?
Mr Masilela replied that the withdrawal from an internal security role by the
SANDF was in line with the mandate of the White Paper. The SANDF was mandated
to secure territorial integrity. Internal matters were the ambit of the SAPS.
However the SANDF would continue to play a smaller role in maintaining border
security and as soldiers they would assist only in crises. He stressed that the
SAPS needed to build capacity, as it was a constitutional matter.
Mr Masilela replied that the UN reimbursed according to equipment utilised and
that in the case of aging 25-year-old SANDF vehicles they did not due to the
age of the vehicles.
The Chairperson asked whether members of the delegation had anything to add.
Mr Vusumuzi Sindane (Chief Director: SD – DOD)
stated that some of the issues reflect back on decisions taken by Parliament
including the devolving of National Key Point security to the SAPS.
The Chairperson asked if there were any follow up questions.
Mr Shiceka requested that they call it a day and agree that the DOD has raised
these issues and that now it was the duty of the Committee take them up with
Parliament and develop a systematic way of engaging said issues.
The Chairperson agreed and requested that the DOD reply to his following
questions in writing. He asked about the impact of rightsizing as well as what
the DOD required to be able to increase the flying hours of SAAF pilots to the
required number. The Chairperson asked what Mr Masilela’s view was on the issue
of outsourcing recruitment, especially in light of the selection of undesirable
candidates.
Mr Mack expressed a general sense of agreement and pledged the Committee’s
support in order to give the DOD the tools necessary to do their job
effectively.
The Chairperson added that they would take up the DOD’s issues with the powers
that be.
The meeting was adjourned.
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