SABC Board Interviews

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Communications and Digital Technologies

28 August 2007
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Meeting Summary

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Meeting report

COMMUNICATIONS PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
SABC BOARD INTERVIEWS
28 August 2007


Acting Chairperson: Mr G Oliphant (ANC)

Documents handed out:

None

Audio recording of meeting [Part1] ; [Part2]& [Part3]

SUMMARY
The Portfolio Committee continued with the interviews of nominees for appointment to the South African Broadcasting Corporation Board. The six candidates interviewed were Mr Andile Mbeki (a current SABC Board member), Ms Fadila Lagadien, Mr Sizwe Shezi, Mr Paul Raleigh, Mr Peter Vundla and Ms R Smith. Details of the questions asked appear in this Minute but the full responses may be heard on the attached audio recording.

A wide variety of questions were asked by the Committee. All Candidates were asked to introduce themselves and indicate why they were seeking appointment to the Board. Members called for comment on the possible conflict of interest arising either by reason of their work in the communications sector or from party political affiliations. Candidates were asked to address the particular contributions or value they could add to the Board, and to give suggestions for rectifying any current difficulties or mistakes, their approach to rebuilding the reputation of the public broadcaster, the current status of the SABC.  Members were concerned about the candidates’ relations with the SABC as a public broadcaster, their views on the role and function of a public broadcaster, and what suggestions they would make for changes to various aspects of the board and its work. Members were also asked how they would attempt to rectify mistakes or rebuild the reputation. Negative perceptions about the SABC, standards of journalism, the public aspirations, violent content in programmes, addressing the needs and aspirations of the poor, and the purpose and scope of advertising were also addressed. Other questions were asked around the coverage of certain events and parties, the reasons why some matters were not covered by the SABC although they were strongly reported by the print media, Premier Soccer League matter, the Commission of Enquiry, and the situation at the Sea Point offices,

MINUTES
Interview: Mr Sizwe Shezi

The Acting Chairperson requested a brief introduction from the candidate and asked why he would like to be considered for appointment on the Board.

Mr S Shezi replied he was currently employed as a Relationship Manager at Ithala Development Finance Corporation.  He was the President of the South African Youth Council, and part of National Economic Development and Labour Council. Mr Shezi was the founder Board member of the Finance Charter Council and mentioned his academic qualifications. He added that he regarded the SABC as a critical instrument in ensuring that the values embodied in the Constitution and Bill of Rights were upheld.

Ms S Vos (IFP) referred to his CV, noting his involvement in HIV issues and social policy involving youth. She asked how he perceived the programming and public broadcasters’ approach to HIV/AIDS, youth programmes regarding social policy and business or economics news.

Ms Vos indicated that she was interested in Mr Shezi’s paper on youth for socialism; and asked how he would develop that further on the socialist concept and how it would be articulated.

Ms Vos wondered what appended to the research on KwaZulu Natal Capital City Location Attitudes.

Ms D Smuts (DA) indicated that the Communist Party had nominated the candidate and that he was an office bearer for the SACP. She asked if that would not create an obligation to advance a certain agenda.

Ms Smuts referred to his opening remarks on the values of the SABC and requested Mr Shezi’s opinion of the coverage on allegations of half a million rand in plastic bags that were given to Mr Nzimande.

The Chairperson was concerned that this was a police matter, and asked that Mr Shezi should not talk to the merits or demerits, but he could comment on his impression of the coverage.

Mr R Mohlalonga (ANC) mentioned that the SACP was the first party to use broadcasting for propaganda and asked the candidate, being a member of that party, what his perception was of the public broadcaster.

Mr Mohlalonga requested the candidate’s appraisal of the SABC as a public broadcaster.

Mr S Nxumalo (ANC) followed up on the question of the candidate’s SACP membership. He also noted his experience in the youth council, Kwazulu Natal (KZN) youth council and Jacob Zuma RDP Trust and asked if he had ever received any complaints from these structures that he held the SACP agenda.

Mr Nxumalo asked how the candidate would ensure that the broadcaster was biased to the agenda of the poor if appointed to the Board.

A person undergoing job-shadowing experience asked to what extent should the SABC toe the government line in showing issues such as ideology or democracy, and whether it should be drawing the line on issues that were detrimental to the government’s reputation, like corruption or previous wrongs or programmes that could damage the reputation of the government. He asked if the candidate was of the view that these programmes should be included in the SABC.

Mr K Khumalo (ANC) mentioned that the SABC, through advertising and programmes, created an impression of building an idealistic or materialistic society that engaged in consumerism and accumulation of wealth. He asked whether Mr Shezi, based on his experience as the President of the Youth Council, could suggest an approach that the broadcaster must provide to build social conscience.

Mr Khumalo referred to the violent material in the programmes at SABC and asked what the broadcaster should do in changing that to build a non-violent country.

Mr Khumalo stated that the candidate’s party membership was not the deciding issue, but the independence of the broadcaster should be emphasised.

Mr R Pieterse (ANC) referred to the incidences not being broadcast, such as heckling against the Deputy President in KZN, blacklisting and so forth. He stated that society seemed to shift blame of monitoring children to other people. Mr Pieterse mentioned that there was a request to have a youth radio and asked how soon they could have that if he were to be a Board member.

Ms L Yengeni (ANC) indicated that the print media projected the SACP as an organisation disloyal to the government, and wondered if this showed cracks in the alliance. She asked if it would be appropriate for the government to question certain statements by the SACP or the SACP to question the government.

The Chairperson mentioned that there was nothing in the legislation to prohibit the candidate’s membership of any political party, although the decision whether this could impinge upon his independence was a matter that the Committee would have to discuss and decide upon. He clarified the “plastic bag” story concerned allegations that a plastic bag full of money had been handed to Mr Nzimande, but this was still under investigation. He encouraged investigative journalists to get their facts straight before publishing a story.

Interview: Mr Andile Mbeki
The Chairperson asked Mr Andile Mbeki, who was already serving on the SABC Board, why he would like to be reconsidered for appointment to the new SABC Board and his relations with the President.

Mr A Mbeki responded by providing his academic qualifications and broadcasting experience. At times he went live on air, had translated and prepared programmes. Furthermore Mr Mbeki mentioned that he was a businessman and a community leader where he worked with various organisations and youth formations. He had extensive experience working in the communications industry.

Ms Vos asked the candidate if he still considered himself as a “young lion”.

Ms Vos requested to know what community work Mr Mbeki was involved in.

Ms Vos referred to the organisations or projects the candidate had been involved in, given also his full time employment, and asked if he missed any Board meetings.

Ms Vos focused on the committees in which he had served whilst on the Board, and asked about his involvement in risk management, and his views in light of problems experienced by the Board. She asked if he ever visited any of the SABC offices.

Ms Vos referred to the Commission of Enquiry recently held and asked if Mr Mbeki was aware of the content of the document, and what the Board had done to address that challenge.

Ms Vos indicated the allegations made against the Sea Point office and asked his views. If he was not aware of the allegations, she called for an explanation why this was so.

Ms Vos requested the candidate’s views if and why he had ever questioned the SABC on the scandal over the awarding of land, the Blackman Ngoro allegations, and some of the other scandals that had not been covered.

Mr Nxumalo requested the candidate’s specific contributions to the innovations during his time of the Board, and what were the specific strengths he brought to the programmes or committees he had served on.

Ms C Nkuna (ANC) indicated that despite being thirteen years into democracy, not all eleven official languages had been covered nationally by the broadcaster. She requested what role he would play in ensuring that all these languages would be broadcasted by the SABC.

Ms Nkuna appreciated the rural background of the candidate, and the areas he visited, such as Limpopo. She asked what language he used when he visited those rural areas and expressed her concern that she was not able to hear her mother tongue whilst she was in Cape Town, due to the limited broadcast.

Ms Nkuna stated that there was a Eurocentric slant being given to adverts in TshiTsonga, Tshivenda or SeSotho.  She asked what role he would play in ensuring a TshiTsonga advert would be purely that and not translated.

Ms Nkuna wondered how the out comes based education could be implemented since it had problems before.

Mr Pieterse mentioned that very little was done on the recommendations made to the Sea Point office.

Mr Pieterse agreed with Ms Vos that the SABC reported selectively on certain incidences. 

Mr Pieterse mentioned that there was a tendency for the SABC to focus on the first economy and very little on the second economy. He asked how the candidate, if appointed, would rectify that skewed representation of the country.

Ms Smuts said that Mr Mbeki provided an impression that he was not a vital member of the Board. He had mentioned that he could be a custodian of institutional memory. She was concerned about his remarks about the holding back of a report. She mentioned that it was not a criterion to have a candidate who represented the youth on the SABC Board, and commented that the Committee had interviewed a number of people who had interesting and varied connections.

Ms Smuts asked about the Sihlale incident and what happened in regard to invoicing and double invoicing.

The Chairperson said that the Committee would go back to the Board when the report was provided, and would be having a further investigation on the leakages and corruption that happened within the public broadcaster.

Mr Khumalo referred to the perceptions that the SABC Board was under attack by the print media, and asked why the Board was believing itself to be under attack.

Mr Khumalo expressed the view  that the bad publicity around SABC had reflected bad leadership, or the Board not executing its duties, and wondered why no one was blamed for these mistakes.

Mr Khumalo mentioned that there was some perception that the coverage of current affairs and news was carrying political bias, and gave examples of the booing of the Deputy President, and the coverage on Zimbabwe that tended to give prominence to certain individuals or parties. He further mentioned the documentary of the President, the lack of coverage on the premier of KZN on 16 June, and Mr Tony Leon’s lost campaign about abuse of children at Bishop Lavis. He stated that the independence of the broadcaster was important. He asked why there were perceptions that members of the SABC were affiliated directly or indirectly to certain political parties or individuals and were pushing their agendas.

Mr Khumalo asked what the Board saw as the country’s national trajectory.

Mr Mohlalonga referred to the leakages of reports that the candidate viewed to be unethical. He asked whether the SABC, on its news bulletins, also run leaked stories and, if that was the case, was that not unethical to do so.

Mr Mohlalonga asked the candidate about the PSL rights. If he were given the opportunity to deal with this issue, he asked whether he would have approached it in the same way, or differently, and who should be blamed for the SABC losing the deal.

Mr Mohlalonga asked if booing was newsworthy from the public broadcaster’s perspective, and if any disciplinary steps were likely to be taken in regard to the coverage on this incident.

Mr Mohlalonga asked if the fact of commissioning a report or programme necessarily meant that it would be broadcast.

Ms Yengeni requested Mr Mbeki to evaluate the current Board, with specific focus on its weaknesses.

Ms Yengeni referred to perceptions that SABC was biased to certain political leaders or the views of other countries. Only person had been interviewed on the matter where it was suggested that racist statements of the French government were supported. She asked if this would not reinforce the notion that the SABC was intolerant of views criticising the President.

Interview: Ms Fadila Lagadien
The Chairperson welcomed Ms Lagadien, who was currently serving on the Board, and asked why she would like to be considered for re-appointment into the new SABC Board.

Ms Lagadien replied that she had entered deeper into the communications sector in investigating the idea of creating a product in the market for disabled people, and improved access when travelling, which was supported by her own experiences. She mentioned that she would like to be reconsidered for the Board due to the complex nature of the SABC, and the volume of  outstanding work that the current incumbents of the Board had not yet finalised.  The four-year period was too short for the amount of work to be covered, and this inhibited continuity. She noted that the Board had adopted a gender strategy and was in process with the disability strategy, and she would like to see this completed.

The Chairperson requested the candidate’s view of how many current Board members should be reappointed to address the continuity issue.

Mr Pieterse indicated the SABC facilities were not disabled friendly, except for the Port Elizabeth office, and asked why there had not been sufficient changes.

Mr Pieterse asked how, if Ms Lagadien were re appointed, she would ensure the challenges of structural access could be addressed at SABC.

Ms Vos referred to the allegations made by a former board member, about corruption and mismanagement of funds, and requested clarity on what actually happened.

Ms Vos noted the Commission of Enquiry investigating the alleged blacklisting and problems with the Sea Point office. She asked if the candidate knew what happened and if she ever visited the office or interacted with the staff at that office.

Ms Yengeni asked if there were any Board members that had tendered for work with the SABC.

Mr Khumalo asked how many SABC Board meetings were held annually and asked if it was possible for the Board to deal with the corporation’s challenges, that were featured on a daily basis.

Mr Khumalo mentioned that there were no current programmes on SABC to highlight the plight of disabled people, and asked what could be done to rectify this.

Mr Khumalo asked how SABC was intending to cater for blind people, especially in regard to coverage over soccer following the PSL situation, and noted that this was of particular concern in respect of those blind people that relied on radio.

Ms Nkuna indicated that children were taught to use sign language, but the challenge was that the family could not communicate in this way since they did not know how to sign. She asked if the Board had planned anything to help hearing-disabled parents and children communicate with each other.

Interview: Mr Paul Raleigh
The Chairperson welcomed Mr Raleigh and briefed him about the selection process. He requested the candidate to introduce himself and why he would like to be considered for appointment to the SABC Board.

Mr Paul Raleigh noted that he had a background in films, and outlined his role as a producer in this country. Mr Raleigh mentioned the films he produced and three movies that he made with director Gavin Hood (Shop keeper, A reasonable man and Tsotsi). He used to produce movies for the SABC but stopped this when he started making films for international institutions. He hadextensive experience in film production and could contribute to increasing the standard of production. Mr Raleigh was working for Film Finances which was an entity focusing on evaluation of the project, the people involved, with a view to bonding and guarantee completion.

The Acting Chairperson asked the candidate how he earned his living. He said that he asked the question because Mr Raleigh was a filmmaker and SABC would perhaps in future need his films. 

Ms Smuts was impressed with the candidate’s CV and movies he had produced. She assumed that he was familiar with the difficulties of the independent producers’ organisations, who were struggling to survive although they made local soap operas. The SABC indicated that they had consulted with the independent producers’ organisations and were entertaining the idea of intellectual property rights. Ms Smuts said as more channels were introduced by SABC more programming would be required. She asked what experience Mr Raleigh could bring to such issues.

The Chairperson asked what type of services were provided by the company that Mr Raleigh worked for, and if this company had any relations with the SABC.

Mr Pieterse said that the current Board perhaps did not fully appreciate the producers’ needs. He asked how Mr Raleigh would strike this balance if elected to the Board, bearing in mind that the SABC was not properly funded and providing fair treatment to the producers.

Ms Vos agreed with the drive to increase local content and provide incentives to get the best talents of producers and directors. She believed that the country was not getting from the broadcaster the kind of programming it needed. She asked for his comments on the quality of programming at SABC.

Ms Vos referred to Mr Raleigh’s statement that government would have to assist more to make the industry more energised and she asked how he would approach this.

Ms Vos referred to the collapse of Dreamworld, and asked what happened.

Mr Khumalo was impressed that the candidate produced African local films.

Mr Khumalo referred to intellectual property issues, and asked how these and the funding issues of the SABC could be approached and resolved.

Mr Khumalo asked why there was so much violent content being screened.

Mr Khumalo asked if it was possible for the SABC to get local content and still maintain its commercial imperatives.

Interview: Mr Peter Vundla
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate and asked why he would like to be considered for the Board.

Mr Vundla reflected on his academic background and his achievements. He stated that he was currently the Deputy Chairperson of the AMB Capital, and had been a founding member of the first black-owned advertising agency. He was an account director and a publisher for Soweto Today and the editorial consultant. He was a member of the Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) Commission. He had extensive writing experience. He was also  Chairman of the Committee on Advertising Standards and Freedom of Commercial Speechcraft, and Alcatel. He was a Director of WesBank and also a director of Mail & Guardian.

The Chairperson referred to the candidate’s directorship and trusteeship involvement and asked how the candidate dealt with time management.

The Chairperson asked the relationship between the candidate and Mfundi Vundla, the director of Generations.

The Chairperson asked why the candidate was nominated by the IPO.

Mr Pieterse mentioned that the Mail & Guardian seemed to parallel comments being expressed by the Sunday Times in producing comment on the SABC. He wondered if people would be comfortable with the principle if Mr Vundla were to serve on the SABC Board, since he was already serving on the Mail & Guardian Board.

The Chairperson provided a hypothetical scenario where there might be conflict between the Mail & Guardian and SABC that involved a legal duty. He then asked Mr Vundla how he would resolve that situation.

Adv P Swart (DA) commented on the candidate’s impressive past and work he had done for the country. He was concerned by Mr Vundla’s response that if there were conflict then he would attempt to influence one or the other of these bodies. He asked to be assured that by “influence” he had not meant any form of “gagging”.  .

Ms Vos expressed her interest in the kind of art that he collected, and how he saw the projection of arts and culture in South Africa.

Ms Vos requested the candidate’s view on the post-apartheid period in South Africa and how the broadcaster had moved from state broadcaster to a public broadcaster.

Ms Vos reflected on the candidate’s pioneering of the freedom of commercial speech. She asked for his comments on commercial matters currently being broadcasted on news and current affairs, mentioning the perception and criticism that not sufficient current affairs news coverage was given.

Mr Khumalo mentioned the different patterns regarding advertising on SABC1 and 2. Advertising was around LSM 8-10 rather than LSM1-4 on these channels. A particular Toyota Hiace Combi vehicle was being advertised on SABC3 but not SABC 1 despite the fact that its target market was black people. He asked the ideology and principles that influenced individuals to advertise in certain stations.

Mr Khumalo asked what should be the national trajectory of South Africa to be carried out by the broadcaster.

Mr Khumalo asked if the candidate was involved in any current projects or had current relations with the SABC that could benefit his company.

Ms Nkuna expressed her concern on the nature of advertisements being screened. She asked how far an advertiser would go in ensuring that it was carrying the message, and what measures were taken to ensuring that adverts reflected the culture of the indigenous group that was the target market.

Ms Vos mentioned that soccer was business, and that soccer was a sport of national interest. She asked how, in a mediator role, he would ensure that big businesses did not deprive people of the opportunity to view the sport that they loved. Most of the people that would suffer were those who used radio and this issue would have to be resolved in the light of national interest.

Ms R Smith

The Chairperson requested the candidate to introduce herself and to indicate why she would like to be appointed to serve on the SABC Board.

Ms R Smith responded that she was an independent communications consultant and media researcher. She identified herself as a social entrepreneur. She had lectured at various institutions across the country. She sat on a number of Boards, both locally and internationally. Ms Smith mentioned that her role had been always around leadership and she would contribute in enshrining the principles of the Broadcasting Act.

The Acting Chairperson requested the candidate to provide an appraisal of the current SABC Board, and to name an example of a situation where she felt that the Board had made wrong decisions.

Mr Pieterse reminded the Committee that what happened in the newsroom in fact had little to do with the Board, if the concept of independence of the newsroom was to be supported. However, the media had tended to condemn the Board for matters handled elsewhere. Mr Pieterse asked the candidate how she could have done things differently if she were on the Board, and how she could have responded to the print media criticisms.

Mr Khumalo requested the candidate to distinguish between the different funding models for a public broadcaster, and asked if she knew the current funding model of the SABC.

Mr Khumalo requested her views on what the mandate of the broadcaster was.

Mr Khumalo asked how the SABC should approach the education and entertainment sectors of its programming, in the context of Ms Smith’s experience as a media and cultural expert.

Mr Khumalo referred to the deal that the SABC lost to SuperSport, noting the R1.5 billion figure involved. He asked her views on whether this money was warranted for sport, bearing in mind that SABC had other mandates, such as education.

The Chairperson asked if the candidate, as a journalist, was currently involved in any dealings or had any connections with the SABC. 

Ms Nkuna was pleased to note that Ms Smith was a Board member of the Federation of African Media Women. Ms Nkuna mentioned that women in media were previously used as commodities. She asked if Ms Smith foresaw a situation where women would be portrayed as bridging the gap and coming to amicable solutions.

Mr Nxumalo complemented the candidate on her facilitation role of the community television summit and asked if she could share her experiences there with the Committee.

Mr Nxumalo mentioned that there was a perception that when academics were appointed to the Board they focused on the first world. He asked if she could carry through the agenda of the poor.

The meeting was adjourned.

 

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