South African Police Service Budget briefing

SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE
11 May 2007
SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICE BUDGET BRIEFING

Chairperson:  Kgoshi L Mokoena (ANC, Limpopo)

Documents handed out
Budget Vote 23 Safety and Security

Audio Recording of the Meeting Part1 & Part2

SUMMARY
The recent incident reported in the media where a woman had been detained in the same cell as men at Volksrus Police station was raised and discussed. The National Commissioner assured the Committee that the issue had been dealt with and the constables involved had been suspended and an enquiry was being held. Although they had acted incorrectly there were some extenuating circumstances, including lack of training and experience. The enquiry would raise certain issues for future discussion.

The National Commissioner of the South African Police Service briefed the Committee fully on the strategic plan and budget over the next five-year period. The five programmes were set out and explained and the expenditure on each programme was outlined.

Members held extensive discussions with the presenters. Many questions related to issues of service delivery, including the alleged shortage of vehicles, failure to answer the emergency numbers, police stations being situated far from areas of high crime or townships, demarcations and allocation of resources. Further questions were asked on the forensic laboratory services' problems, the need to increase the resources for intelligence, use of e-dockets, and the powers and functions of the provinces. The interaction between the metro police and the police service was queried. Other questions related to accommodation for personnel, salaries and working conditions, conditions of police stations, lack of resources,  the effects of the Firearms Control Bill, the levels of crime, the effectiveness of the Cluster, and whether police services were at optimum level of personnel and resources. Members asked about the World Cup plans, the break ins involving police officials at the offices of Home Affairs, the police's ability to deal with bail, career pathing in the Service, cross border crime and the release of crime statistics. The need to change the public perception of policing was raised, as also the need for greater cooperation between the police and prosecuting authorities. The Commissioner deliberately did not answer questions on police policy on prostitution and drunkenness during the World Cup as this was a question requiring further thought and input. Comment was sought on the matters reported on by the Auditor General. Several of the questions were to be answered in writing. 

MINUTES
Incident at Volksrus Police Station
The Chairperson enquired about an incident that had occurred at Volksrus police station in Mpumalanga where a woman had been arrested and placed in the male holding cells. He enquired whether the allegations were correct.

Mr Jackie Selebi, National Commissioner, South African Police Service (SAPS) responded that the incident mentioned by the Chairperson had happened. Two recently appointed young constables detained the woman in the same cell as males. He said as soon as the police management found out about this issue they immediately took steps and the constables involved had since been suspended and a departmental hearing would be taking place the following week. He said that their lack of experience was a factor that would no doubt be raised. Commissioner Selebi felt that the incident would not have happened if a senior officer was present. He said that this occurrence might be a foretaste of problems that could also arise if, for instance, a male person who was homosexual claimed he would be safer in a female cell. The females in such cell might not be happy with having this man present. He was not sure what would need to be done in such cases.

Commissioner Selebi said that the constables had clearly acted incorrectly but there were extenuating circumstances related to the level of experience and guidance. These issues would be fully explored and the result of this hearing would give some pointers to future situations.

Budget and Strategic Plan 2007-2010: South African Police Service (SAPS) Briefing
Commissioner Jackie Selebi indicated that SAPS welcomed the opportunity to present to the Committee and demonstrate the use of resources. These were handled carefully. He stated that virtually the full budget allocation had been used, with the exception of a mere R600.

Assistant Commissioner George Moorcroft and Divisional Commissioner Schutte, Finance Division, SAPS, indicated that the strategic plan encompassed a five-year period, and the one-year plan tabled in Parliament on 3 May 2007 was extrapolated from the strategic plan. The mandates were derived from various pieces of legislation, policy directives and government objectives, which were outlined.

SAPS had five programmes, namely, Administration, Visible Policing Programme (VPP), Detective Services Programme (DSP), Crime Intelligence Programme (CIP) and Protection and Security Services Programme (PSSP). The one-year plan was linked to the Estimate of National Expenditure (ENE) and Management Performance Agreement. Lower level personnel performances were also linked to the one-year policing plan.

The key initiatives and deliverables for each of the programmes was outlined in detail in the presentation. The key strategic initiatives were the national crime combating strategy, the firearms strategy, the crimes against women and children strategy, prevention of attacks on police, corruption and fraud prevention, risk management and service delivery improvement. The spending policy directions were the State of the Nation address and government imperatives.

The preliminary outcomes for 2006/07 were tabled, as at 21 March 2007, and these included improved remuneration, additional personnel, with a target of 163 000, the vehicle fleet, bullet proof vests, protection and security services, capital works, modernization of equipment, a new reservist system, border security and legislative oversight.

The classification of payments was outlined. The budget for 2007/08 was R35.9 billion, a 10,5% increase on the previous year. This reflected employment of personnel, investment in capital assets and improvements in conditions of service. The increases to specific programmes were tabled. The enlistment programme was set out for 2002-2010. The border post security reflected a phase-out by the Defence Force and phasing in of SAPS. 

Commissioner Selebi indicated that SAPS handled about 2,5 million cases per year. The percentages given were based upon the number of cases. He pointed out that SAPS was not the only role player. Other Departments were also involved. Thus the case management and finalisation also was dependent upon availability of courts, court officials, prosecutors, expert witnesses and so forth. Department of Correctional Services also played a part. A further point to note was the relative budgetary allocations to competing areas of interest, such as funding to build a prison weighed up against funding to build a school.

Discussion
The Chairperson thanked the provincial Commissioners for the way that they treated Members when they visited the provinces. He said it was very encouraging to see the dedication and the willingness to work and shape the future of the country.

Mr A Manyosi (ANC, Eastern Cape) thanked SAPS for the comprehensive report. He commented that when referring to the Constitution, it should be named by title rather than by its Act number. He asked what the reference to "acts of ill-discipline” meant, and asked for examples.

Commissioner Selebi answered that ill-discipline would arise in a case where an officer, for example, was instructed to go to a particular crime scene but instead went to the shop to buy groceries. That would be a case that could be resolved internally by SAPS.

Mr Manyosi pointed out that the Firearms Control Act was passed several months ago. He asked if the Committee could be notified of some of the positive effects of the Bill since it was put in place.

Commissioner Selebi said that the Act had had an impact on the circulation of firearms in South Africa. In Bronkhorstspruit the station commissioner had asked for additional staff to register all the firearms that were being brought in from the community. Because there was a long process to get a licence people had opted to rather bring their firearms back. The aim of the legislation was to reduce the number of arms in the hands of people who should not have them. The effect of the Act was to start a process of reduction.  

Mr Manyosi said it was evident from the State of the Nation Address and the Budget Speech that  government was very serious about preventing and combating crime. This was demonstrated further by specific actions such as increases in budgets. He asked if, given the 2.5 million cases per year, there was any indication that crime levels were abating.

Commissioner Selebi said that the levels of crime were going down.

Mr Manyosi said that when people in a rural area asked for the police to deal with a crime they were told that there were no officers available. On the other hand it the police received a tip-off of a drug haul from Port Elizabeth to Pondoland they would be there within minutes. He asked how this problem could be dealt with.

Commissioner Selebi noted that if any officer proffered the excuse that SAPS could not go to a crime scene because they did not have a vehicle they would be lying. One could conclude that the policeman or woman was lazy. SAPS was moving to having 37 000 vehicles. Although he conceded that some areas may have a few less cars than others, there were a number of factors  taken into consideration when distributing vehicles, and they would be available. For example an area with a higher crime rate would obviously need more vehicles than one with a low incidence of crime. Crime levels were not the same throughout the country. If crime could be reduced in Gauteng, this would reflect as a country-wide drop of 50%. Obviously, then, more resources would need to be put to Gauteng, followed by Kwazulu-Natal then Western Cape.

Commissioner Selebi said there might well then be more vehicles in Gauteng than Northern Cape because the latter had lower crime levels. Police management had discussed how to distribute 11 000 new recruits, who were not divided equally amongst the nine provinces but in terms of need. Insofar as distribution of detectives was concerned, it was decided that SAPS would distribute the new recruits before they finished training. He said that for instance Free Sate would get 400 police officials and 250 public service personnel, Northern Cape 397 police officials and 224 Public service personnel. Gauteng,  Kwazulu-Natal and Western Cape had received additional personnel for this financial year. Resources were distributed in accordance with crime patterns.

Mr Manyosi mentioned that it seemed as though the issues that the reservists raised had been resolved. However hospital guards, he felt, performed similar tasks to reservists, and would be assigned to look after criminals who were hospitalised but came from police cells.

Mr Manyosi raised the issue of court delays occasioned by non availability of members of the judiciary or the prosecution. He thought this was a matter that could be addressed at the joint meeting of the Cluster. He asked if SAPS felt that the cluster was effective.

Mr S Shiceka (ANC, Gauteng) asked whether the SAPS had done an audit that told it how many police were needed in South Africa, and, if so, how far SAPS was in reaching that target. He also asked if it had done a resources audit that told them so many vehicles, for example, would be  needed in order for a certain service to function well. Again, he enquired how far SAPS was in reaching these targets.

Commissioner Selebi said that SAPS aimed to meet international standards for police to citizen ratios. SAPS was close to this goal of 1:400 in certain areas but very far off in others. The main reason for this was the increased migration since the census into towns, particularly to Western Cape, which had, for instance, resulted in a doubling of the population of Khayelitsha. The number of vehicles needed would be dependent on how many more people were needed.

Commissioner Mala Singh, Deputy National Commissioner, SAPS, added that SAPS had a system called the Resource Allocation Guidelines (RAG). This analysed the incidence of crime, population density, the terrain of the police precinct, number of crimes that took place, the level of urbanisation, the geographic terrain, and the number of courts in the area. All these factors were taken into account and gave SAPS an indication as to the needs.

Mr Shiceka asked about the problems in the forensic laboratory services. Because it was centralised the cases did not move fast enough, and this would impact on the justice system and created a case backlog. He asked if there was there any programme to de-centralise the forensic services so it could be responsive to the needs of the population.

Commissioner Selebi answered that he thought the forensic laboratories had been de-centralised. There was one in Western Cape, Eastern Cape, Gauteng and Kwazulu Natal. If by decentralised it was meant that there should be one in every station, that was impossible.

He added that people should not be under the illusion that a DNA test result would be available the next day. This was simply not possible. He mentioned an article in the newspaper the previous day about a young girl who was raped and her body burned. The headline said that the police “bungled” her DNA evidence. However, in this case the DNA needed to be obtained from the bone marrow. It was agreed by the laboratory and the girl’s parents that the results would be ready by 18 May 2007. He reiterated that it took a long time to obtain such results.

Mr Shiceka said that the resources allocated to intelligence driven policing were minimal. He asked for the views of the SAPS on strengthening this side of intelligence to know what was happening. He asked what had happened to the capability that had previously enabled the former South African Police to track an activist who had entered a particular street at a particular time. 

Commissioner Selebi disputed that such capability had ever existed. He said that all police officers were intelligence-driven. Every officer moved with a black pocketbook used to note absolutely everything. He agreed that the strengthening of the intelligence sector was necessary in some areas.

Commissioner Singh added that there were shortages in human resources in many facets of policing. A priority was to resource the 169 top-priority stations. 40% of all their new recruits, after training, would be placed in the detective unit, forensic laboratories and crime Intelligence Unit. That was the mechanism being used to push up resourcing in the areas where it was needed.

Mr Shiceka also asked about e-dockets. He wanted to know if SAPS was scanning documents so that they did not get lost.

Commissioner Selebi confirmed that SAPS did scan everything.

Mr Shiceka asked about powers and functions of the province, and asked what could be done in the province with regards to appointments, discipline and management.

Commissioner Singh said that SAPS was one central unit with one accounting officer who held a lot of the original powers in terms of the Constitution and SAPS Act. Some power was attributed directly to the Minister. From here there was a system of delegation. Appointments had been de-centralised to Provincial Commissioners for levels 1 through 12 in the organisation. Appointments for levels 13 and upward stayed with the National Commissioner. Discipline was also de-centralised. Thus, SAPS was now following a model with their new disciplinary regulations. Disciplinary action would not take place at national level because it was too far removed from where the matter actually happened. It would have to be taken up by the immediate commander and then there was a chain of accountability going upwards. The main reason for this restructuring was to strengthen police stations, and to make sure that station commanders had the maximum amount of decision making powers so that they could be effective.

Mr Shiceka asked about the areas that were phased out. He enquired what the impact of this was. He also enquired about the shift-change. Some officers had complained that it could cause transport difficulties. He asked how the situation was being resolved.

Commissioner Selebi stated that some people may feel unsafe in the streets but if they began to feel unsafe in their own houses, this could give rise to a crisis. He noted that policeman would be deployed from 7:30 pm till 4am. The streets would be monitored by air and on the ground. The main reasoning behind this was to reduce the incidence of house breaking, which so often also included rape and murder. Generally the staff in Intelligence would work in the daytime and police officers at night. Some groups used colour-coded cans placed outside houses as messages to other gang members that a certain house was empty, or occupied. Intelligence personnel would be able to investigate such matters and could give an indication of where robberies might occur.

Mr Shiceka said that he was sure that the National Commissioner had gone to other countries to research how best to equip SAPS to deal with the 2010 World Cup. He wondered what was required to put South Africa in good stead to manage the World Cup, and how would SAPS deal with the issue of prostitution and public drinking during this time.

Mr M Mzizi (IFP, Gauteng) thanked SAPS for the extensive presentation. He felt that some of the interventions were good but would have preferred to hear them at a workshop to empower the Committee in its oversight role, so that they knew exactly what to ask. He referred to the case at Volksrus and said that the issue of whether people were gay or lesbian needed to be declared on arrest, so as to avoid difficulties in detaining them.

Mr Mzizi raised the break-in at the offices of Home Affairs in Pretoria. Allegations were made that policemen had contaminated the crime scene, despite the fact that they were apparently not inexperienced. The evidence had been interfered with. According to the media they were still employed and he regarded this as defeating the ends of justice. He was amazed that a policeman did not appear to know his correct function.

Commissioner Selebi answered that the break in was organised by the policemen, the thieves and the office security. It was no mistake that those particular policemen were called. These matters unfortunately did occur and SAPS needed to deal with it quickly and eradicate these people from the organisation.

Mr Mzizi said that he was very perturbed by definitions of sexual offences. He enquired why a distinction was made between anal penetration of a female or male complainant.

Commissioner Singh said that a legislative amendment was still pending. In terms of current legislation SAPS currently logged these cases as sodomy in the case of a male and indecent assault in the case of a female.

Mr Mzizi pointed out that there seemed to be some difficulties in regard to interaction between metropolitan police and SAPS. He cited a case in January 2007 in Ekhuruleni when the metro police took statements but the case was not even registered at the police station. At some stage it was registered, but under an old numbering system. The person knocked down died and the case was closed because no statement had been taken. The matter was dealt with as a case of reckless driving and there was no indication of the death. In another case metro police fired at a group of women who were having a gathering, but this was never reported to the police station. He asked whether metro police were supposed to report to or consult SAPS.

Commissioner Selebi said that part of the idea of the Metro police working with SAPS was to deal with these kind of issues. It was unfortunate that some new policeman acted in a way that put policing in a bad light.

Mr Mzizi said that Thokoza police station was a huge problem. The building was unfinished, documents were exposed to the public, and the police were unaware of who should be taken to court. He asked what the problem was. He further asked who was responsible for the maintenance of police stations because some were in a bad state of disrepair. He asked what was being done to improve the working environment of the police.

Dr F van Heerden, Department of Justice and Constitutional Development (DOJ), said that the Criminal Procedure Act provided for the granting of bail by certain ranks but this was rarely used. He suggested that it might be appropriate to invoke this provision, and that those who had fixed residential address should really not be held. This would help reduce the number of people imprisoned while awaiting trial .

Commissioner Singh said that the police could in minor matters grant bail but there were limits.

Dr van Heerden said that in the USA there was a system of promotion called Career Pathing, which would enable a person with the inclination to be promoted yet stay as an investigating officer rather than being promoted to administrative positions. He enquired if the National Commissioner would be open to the idea of career pathing.

Commissioner Singh said that SAPS already used career pathing, which was introduced with the broad banding system. This system allowed for a pay progression for individuals in three year increments.

Mr A Moseki (ANC, North West) brought up the issue of cross border crime. A recent case involved theft of livestock from farms in Botswana. It was noted that the units dealing with these incidents were not up to standard. Some were small and unable to cope and some officers had been found to be involved in the cross border theft.

Commissioner Selebi said that stock theft was serious and often created huge hardship as it tended to target not big ranch owners but small scale farmers with very few cows, that often represented the sum total of his wealth. SAPS was trying to deal with the issue in an organised way. The problem was compounded by the fact that the stolen animals were immediately taken for slaughter and sold to butcheries that in turn sold cheap meat to numerous purchasers. SAPS needed to move around and inspect all the abattoirs to find out where they obtained the cattle. In stock theft cases it was better to use a horse than a car but officers were resistant to the idea of investigating on horseback rather than in a 4x4.

Mr Moseki asked if the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) were pulling out of border control and if SAPS members had been deployed yet at border posts.

Mr Moseki also noted that when the Committee had visited many police stations it had noted the poor condition of the detective units.

Mr D Worth (DA, Free State) asked if there were figures on the backlog of firearm licences, in regard to both renewals and new licences.

Commissioner Selebi admitted that there was a backlog of licences, but that SAPS was attending to it so that people could receive their licences as soon as possible.

Mr Worth said that crime statistics were traditionally released in August or September of the year, by which time they were out of date. He asked whether these would now be released more frequently, and whether they would be released per area.

Commissioner Selebi said that crime statistics would be released between August and September, because the Auditor General had five months after the end of the financial year to prepare his report. No crime information could be released prior to input from the Auditor General, who looked at correctness of data.

Mr Worth noted that in the small rural areas there was a shortage of personnel, with only three people sometimes on duty. This meant that sector policing did not take place. He said that the media had announced that cooperation between SAPS and private security firms was anticipated. He asked if this was so, and how it would take place. He pointed out that in a Free State town SAPS did not have its own building but shared premises with the Magistrate's Office. He also raised the problem of lack of support for accommodation when police were transferred.

Mr L Fielding (DA, Northern Cape) commented that it was a problem in his area as well

Commissioner Selebi conceded that there were accommodation problems, but that SAPS was trying to address them.

Commissioner Singh added that SAPS did try to provide accommodation in areas that were expensive. It was also trying to place people nearer to their homes to avoid additional costs. However, accommodation was the responsibility of the officer.

Mr Fielding said that during oversight visits the Committee was informed that 120 vehicles were being used in each station. However, around 10% of those vehicles could not be used. Some damaged vehicles had a low mileage but the ones with higher mileage were still in good running condition. The number of vehicles damaged had increased.

Commissioner Selebi explained that if a car was taken to a state garage to be fixed SAPS had to have financial authority and pay the garage. Some members were holding on to the money although the car would be sent to the garage, as it could not be stored on the station premises. The car would continue to sit at the garage. A recent policy had been adopted to the effect that if a car had been at a garage for more than 7 days without financial authority being produced, the National Commissioner would give the necessary authority, have the car repaired and then transfer it to another area that needed a vehicle.

Mr Fielding said that the Community Policing Forum (CPF) existed yet many members were violating the law.

Mr Fielding also noted that many of his constituents were complaining that the 10111 emergency number was not answered immediately, and that when the number was eventually answered the response was given that no police were in the area. He was under the impression that this number would be referred directly to the nearest police station.

Mr N Mack (ANC, Western Cape) commented that the many positive points would help Members to turn around the negative perceptions in their communities. He believed that SAPS should do more to involve Members, parliamentary offices and MP’s and empower them to assist with positive constituency matters.

Commissioner Singh said that the National Commissioner had had extensive discussions with the SAPS communication department, which had recently presented a plan to change the public perception of policing.

Mr Mack commented that resourcing of police stations in rural areas was very poor. Most police stations, during the apartheid era, had been situated at the centre of rural towns, and clearly protected certain groups of the community. This situation had not changed. Some poor townships in Beaufort West had no police stations at high-crime areas and victims of crime would have to walk far or take a taxi to a police station. Racism was still occurring. White policeman refused to work in rural areas. That was a dismal failure on the part of the government and the department.

Mr Mack further commented that, particularly in Cape Town, one policeman would cover up for another.

Mr Mack asked about the relationship between investigating officers and prosecutors and pointed out that often the prosecutor would complain that the investigating officer had not prepared the docket or provide sufficient evidence. He asked if SAPS met with prosecutors regularly in an attempt to enhance the relationship

Mr Mack finally commented that “Tik Tik” was a major problem for the Western Cape. He realised that SAPS was giving some assistance to the MEC. Young drug users were attempting to make the drug themselves, using very dangerous substances. He considered that the drug and alcohol problems stemmed from the "dop system" of the past, and asked what extra assistance SAPS could give to the Western Cape.

The Chairperson stated that not all these questions could be answered at the meeting but that answers should be submitted in writing.

The Chairperson said that the Committee, during its oversight visits, had found that many stations were old and dilapidated, including one particular example in North West that was in a crime hot-spot. Many buildings were the responsibility of the Department of Public Works. It would be desirable to include each department in the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security (JCPS) in the oversight. The legacies of the past meant that many stations in formerly white areas were maintained while those in townships were prefabricated and not maintained. SAPS had apparently tried to reverse this but he understood the sensitivities around who was responsible for building and maintaining. The Chairperson noted that in the legislature police officers assigned to guard them were sometimes not even armed. Computers were slow and outdated. He asked if SAPS could look into how they could assist those people who guarded the legislature.

Commissioner Selebi indicated that SAPS was not responsible for physical security. The state of the parliamentary buildings, and of their security systems, was the responsibility of the Speaker.

The Chairperson asked for comment upon the Police and Prison Civil Rights Union (POPCRU) opposition to the Department using private security as  part of the efforts to fight crime. It was claimed that use of private security companies was tantamount to admission that SAPS had failed in its attempt to fight crime.

Commissioner Selebi said he did not know why this was regarded as such a big issue. SAPS was trying to mobilise everybody to work together with the police. Anyone who did work with the police would always work under SAPS command. The reservist system provided that the reservists could only work under the command of SAPS. This was merely a mobilisation strategy to have all South Africans assist in the fight against crime.

The Chairperson asked what the policy would be on people who were drunk in public during the 2010 World Cup.

Commissioner Selebi replied that he had purposely not answered this question. He had raised the issues in order to make people think about these issues, although they were interpreted in another way by the media. He was not advocating prostitution or public drunkenness.

The Chairperson noted that in other countries governments had picked up all the homeless people and moved them out of certain areas before world cup events to make the city look cleaner. He asked for comment on these tactics.

Commissioner Selebi said that 2010 was a priority for SAPS and it had studied what had been done in Germany and West Indies and were confident that they were well prepared.

The Chairperson asked about the remuneration of police officers, who complained that they were in the firing line but were always an afterthought when it came to service conditions.

Commissioner Singh felt that any police officer complaining about remuneration was being very unfair to the National Commissioner, who was a huge campaigner for an improvement in the working conditions of the police. Since he became National Commissioner there were three special dispensations for the police,which resulted in police officers earning more than their  equally-ranked counterparts in the public sector. On 1 April 2005, police progressed 8 notches of their salary. On 1 July 2005 they received a 1% pay progression. On 1 July 2005 SAPS introduced a broad banding where they translated and moved up posts at a total cost to the organisation of R452 million. On 1 July 2006 they received a 4% pay progression and this would happen every three years.

The Chairperson asked about the old demarcations. He noted that some villages might be next to one police station yet was not serviced by it.

Commissioner Singh said that SAPS did not do its own demarcation, but followed that of local government.

The Chairperson noted that the Auditor General (AG) had raised a concern that SAPS was  unable to monitor the movements of vehicles, to a point where service delivery was compromised. Furthermore he asked why old tender systems were being used for supply chain management. The AG had commented that the firearm control register was not properly maintained and monitored for two consecutive years. Finally he noted that the Sector Training Authority for SAPS was sixteen months behind schedule in developing a new system. He asked for comment on all these points.

The meeting was adjourned.