Swiss Delegate Visit: Population Issues

JOINT MONITORING COMMITTEE ON IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITY OF LIFE AND STATUS OF WOMEN
10 May 2007
SWISS DELEGATE VISIT: POPULATION ISSUES

Chairperson: Ms M Morutoa (ANC)

Documents handed out:
None

SUMMARY
A group of Swiss delegates from the left wing party had come to South Africa to study the implementation of sexual and reproductive health strategies, plans for HIV/Aids, and to learn about South Africa’s strategies to fight gender violence. They were also interested to see the post apartheid process of operating the constitution.

A detailed overview was given by Committee members of the constitution, the Committee system, particularly in regard to the rights of women, children, youth, the disabled and the joint committees, and of the roles of the Chapter 9 institutions. Specific questions by the Swiss delegates related to population development, initiatives in HIV and AIDS prevention, poverty relief, the role of women in business and the economy, and comments related to their own situation in relation to domestic violence, migrants and asylum seekers, the ratio of women in parliament, and a comparison of age demographics. Members asked the delegates questions relating to the system of grants and finances in Switzerland, the ages at which child grants ceased, whether there was legislation in place for termination of pregnancy, same-sex partnerships or marriages, and the pension schemes

MINUTES
Ms Morutoa welcomed the Swiss delegation, and hoped that the meeting should strengthen the relationship between the two countries.

Members and Swiss delegates then introduced themselves.

The Chairperson asked the delegates to say what their expectations from this meeting of Parliament were.

Ms Ruth Gaby said it was a pleasure and an honour to be with and share their thoughts with parliamentarians in South Africa. The Swiss delegation had come to study the implementation of sexual and reproductive health strategies and South Africa's plans for HIV/Aids, which were so prevalent. They also wished to learn about South Africa’s strategies to fight against gender violence. In the political field they were also very interested to see the process post-apartheid in light of the new and special constitution, and to study its implementation.

Ms Morutoa explained that members from the Joint Monitoring Committee and also members from the Committees dealing with Social Development issues were present at the meeting.

Ms Morutoa said that as far as gender and gender violence were concerned, several laws were passed by Parliament and the constitutional gender machinery comprised of the Commission on Gender Equality and the Office on the Status of Women, situated in the President’s office. There was also this current Parliamentary Committee that monitored the effect of laws passed, aimed to protect women from violence and to ensure that they were empowered.

She noted that Members would be speaking further on the constitution.

Ms B Ngcobo (ANC) submitted that South Africa had a comprehensive plan on HIV/Aids that was looking into how to deal with the pandemic. It was also looking at reproductive health, including the Act that gave a choice on termination of pregnancy. Much work was being done in the area of gender-based violence and the Departments of Justice and of Social Development were running campaigns in the provinces to prevent gender-based violence, entitled "Sixteen Days of Activism for 365 Days of the Year". There was much gender-based violence in the country.

Ms C Dudley (ACDP) thought it was particularly interesting that in the 1980s it was estimated that by 2020 the population of South Africa would be 80 million. Now, in light of the termination of pregnancy legislation, which she noted her party found problematic, and the HIV/Aids pandemic and the general decrease in families, it was estimated that the population would only be 50 million. 

Kgoshi W Morwamoche (ANC) acknowledged the role played by the Swiss government during the liberation struggle and asked the delegates to pass acknowledgment to their government. In referring to social development, he noted that the Department of Social Development (DSD) addressed the alleviation of poverty, old age pensions, child support grants, disability grants, and many other grants, which were based on a means test to qualify. He enquired how the Swiss handled the question of social grants.

Ms S Rajbally (MF) noted that thirteen years ago the country was still under the old regime that prevented free movement of people. Social development included poverty, children and the elderly. The Committee undertook oversight visits to check that people in rural areas were kept comfortably and were receiving their grants. The Committee worked with the Office on the Status of Women to check that as many areas as possible were covered.

Ms J Masilo (ANC) mentioned that the controversial Civil Union legislation and enquired how same sex unions had been dealt with in Switzerland.

Mr B Mkongi (ANC) wished to put the discussion into perspective in relation to the agenda and the report given on issues of social development in South Africa. He noted that South Africa had, in 1998, developed a White Paper on population and development in the country, with the aim of integrating social development and population development, which was at that stage favouring certain groups and marginalising black Africans. The policy approach aimed to alleviate poverty. This conformed to the Bill of Rights entrenched in the South African Constitution. South Africa endorsed the International Conference on Population and Development, and the approach informed each Department on population and development.

Mr Mkongi continued that one issue related to health questions for women and children, and another to the Labour Relations Act. Education and gender equality must also conform to the policy. HIV and Aids could not be considered in isolation from population and development. A number of structures, such as the Commission on Gender Equality, the National Youth Commission, the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, and many public entities of government were responsible for implementation.

Ms Masilo noted that most of the policies were working to assist women and to alleviate poverty. There was a school nutrition scheme, feeding children at primary level. Free medical health care was available for pregnant women and children under six years. There was also the Older Persons Act, which was yet to be implemented, but which catered for care of the frail and elderly. The Children’s Bill set out the requirements for care of children in South Africa. The legislation on termination of pregnancy had been mentioned, and she stated that there was a distinction made between abortion and choice of termination. She noted that in passing the Civil Union Act, Parliament had not wanted to amend the Constitution or tamper with the existing Marriage Act. She noted that the officials were not compelled to marry same-sex couples.   to marry these people, but those people were there and those issues had to be addressed.

She touched on recognition by the UN of violence against women and children as human rights issues. The strategies included the National Crime Prevention Strategy, the Sexual Offences Guidelines, the Justice Department Gender Policy, the National Plan of Action for Children in 1999, and a Victim Empowerment Programme for victims of violence. Three new acts to entrench women’s rights were passed by Parliament during 1998: the Domestic Violence Act that protected women and men against domestic violence, the Maintenance Act, allowing deduction from salaries of those who refused to maintain their children, and Recognition of Customary Marriages Act, providing for rights of wives of polygamous unions.

Ms E Mabe (ANC) explained how the constitution was implemented. She gave the historic background and noted that the constitution recognised three institutions: the legislative arm of Members of Parliament, the judicial arm, comprising an independent judiciary, and the Chapter 9 Institutions committed to ensuring implementation of the Bill of Rights, and the Executive. There was also an electoral commission.

Ms Morutoa asked whether the Swiss delegation wished to comment.

Ms Ruth Gaby found it interesting to listen to the concerns of the South African Parliament. Domestic violence was high not only in South Africa, but was also in European countries including Switzerland. A new law was passed in Switzerland on 1 January 2007 whereby the perpetrators of domestic violence had to leave the house, were forbidden to have any contact with the family, and had to attend counselling. Parliament had asked for more shelters for women but that had not been possible, and had also sought further counselling institutions against violence, but lack of funding had hindered this. It was sometimes difficult to have institutions to help the poor and elderly people and victims of violence.

Ms Gaby made reference also to migrants, foreigners and asylum seekers. Switzerland was a small country with a population of 7.5 million. Many migrants and foreigners, including from Africa, sought work in Switzerland. The right wing groups, which were in the majority, held racist views so it was sometimes difficult to ease the situation of migrants and asylum seekers, of whom many were returned to their countries of origin. It was a shame that the laws were so strong since asylum seekers were sometimes from vulnerable groups.

Another delegate from Switzerland elaborated on finances. The State, due to its tax laws, had very restricted finances due to tax laws. A strong right wing sought to reduce taxes to give the economy more freedom. The delegates present today were from the left wing.

The delegate stated that the pension system was in three tiers. The first was run by the State where everybody received a basic subsistence grant financed through wages. Employer contributions were 5% of wages to the fund, and 5% contributed by the employee. Those earning more would therefore contribute more, but all payouts were the same. Private pensions were financed through wages, but run by private insurance companies. The third leg was private savings. All old age pensioners received a grant

In relation to the questions on same sex partnerships, the delegate reported that the Swiss Parliament had changed its constitution a few years ago to disallow gender discrimination. Although a bill was passed in 1981, gender equality was a hard-fought battle and there was still a fight for equal wages for men and women. There was also provision made that nobody should be discriminated against by reason of sexual preference. A new law on same sex marriage was passed a few years ago. It did not allow marriage by that name, but the legal consequences of the same sex unions equated to marriage. No adoption was presently possible by same sex couples, but this was an ongoing process.

Another Swiss delegate explained that Switzerland was reviewing social grants. They tried to keep people in employment as long as possible, so that, together with commercial enterprises, they would make the workplace better. Life expectancy was 80 for women and 78 for men so when they grew older there was a need for social benefits. A system of allocating flats was being looked at.

Ms Ruth Gaby said that the delegates had observed a very different demographic situation to that in Switzerland, where at least 20% of the people were over 65, life expectancy was high, and youth were only 20% of the population. The delegates had noted many women politicians but asked about women's economic empowerment. Further there was high prevalence of HIV and AIDS. They were aware of the UN education, gender issues and nutrition programmes.

Mr Morwamoche added that the UN Population Fund was the fund responsible for population and development programmes and South Africa was fully committed to addressing population and development issues. The International Conference on Population and Development was the first social sector  international agreement that South Africa signed immediately after 1994, and since then South Africa had tried hard to implement its recommendations, going so far as to combine a review of the efforts in conjunction with the ten-year review of democracy in 2004. The efforts the Swiss government was making were noted, and this Committee believed the two countries could work together towards addressing these.

A Swiss delegate noted that termination of pregnancy was allowed in Switzerland since 2002, but there had to be good reason provided, such as lack of facilities to have a child. It was not sufficient simply not to want a child. There was a long struggle to get this legislation passed in Switzerland.

Ms Dudley referred to women in business and the economy, and noted that South Africa had become used to quotas that were generally accepted, but there was more of a focus on women at top management level. The informal business in South Africa was increasing and women were a large part of that informal economy. The demographics were now not so far apart in terms of gender parity. There were less children being born because of the terminations allowed, less young adults because of HIV and AIDS, and more elderly. South Africa was probably fast approaching a similar situation to Switzerland. The ACDP would be particularly concerned about the lack of consciousness of the effects of legislation.

The Chairperson interjected that she should have highlighted that the leading party was the African National Congress, and that Members present here today represented opposition parties as well as the ANC. ANC was committed to parity.

Ms Rajbally mentioned that there were more women than men in the delegation.  She asked what was the ratio in the Swiss parliament.

The reply was that there were 25% women.

The Chairperson stated that in the South African parliament it was at 42%; in the National Assembly 33% and in the NCOP 35%. The Speaker and the Deputy President were women.

Mr Mkongi raised the issue of health problems, particularly sexual diseases, in which the government was making progress. Young people comprised 40% of the population. Youth unemployment was high.

He wished to add that the committees and joint committees on women, youth, children and people with disabilities consisted of members of both the NA and NCOP, meeting on issues of common interest, and Departments appearing before the committees would have to explain how far they were moving on policy implementation. Legislation that did not assist in moving forward would be re-examined with a view to amendment or repeal. Such issues were dealt with through committees of parliament, which had the role therefore of translating policies into implementation.

Ms Ngcobo explained that in order for these acts and laws to begin to address the issues of  people in the community, the constituency model was applied. Parliamentarians had an oversight role and must ensure that the laws passed were actually benefiting the people they were made for.

Ms Ngcobo said that there were problems in backlog. The Accelerated Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa (ASGISA) looked at how best to deal with issues to ensure that all South Africans benefited from the democracy. Public hearings were held to give people a voice in parliament on proposed legislation. A further important matter was the skills shortage, as it was impossible to deliver without scarce skills being available.

Ms Dudley noted that she had been in Parliament only since 1999 but had noted a much stronger emphasis in the past few years on oversight and concerted attempts to have this role functioning efficiently.

Ms Rajbally asked the Swiss delegates to advise at what age the State grant for children ceased.

A delegate replied that this was normally 18, but a person undergoing further education might be eligible, on application and giving proof, up to age 25.

The Chairperson presented a gift to the delegation.

The meeting was adjourned.