Swiss Delegate Visit: Population Issues
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Meeting report
JOINT
MONITORING COMMITTEE ON IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITY OF LIFE AND STATUS OF WOMEN
10 May 2007
SWISS DELEGATE VISIT: POPULATION ISSUES
Chairperson: Ms M
Morutoa (ANC)
Documents handed out:
None
SUMMARY
A group of Swiss delegates from the left wing party had come to South Africa to
study the implementation of sexual and reproductive health strategies, plans
for HIV/Aids, and to learn about South Africa’s strategies to fight gender
violence. They were also interested to see the post apartheid process of operating
the constitution.
A detailed overview was given by Committee members of the constitution, the
Committee system, particularly in regard to the rights of women, children,
youth, the disabled and the joint committees, and of the roles of the Chapter 9
institutions. Specific questions by the Swiss delegates related to population
development, initiatives in HIV and AIDS prevention, poverty relief, the role
of women in business and the economy, and comments related to their own
situation in relation to domestic violence, migrants and asylum seekers, the
ratio of women in parliament, and a comparison of age demographics. Members
asked the delegates questions relating to the system of grants and finances in
Switzerland, the ages at which child grants ceased, whether there was
legislation in place for termination of pregnancy, same-sex partnerships or
marriages, and the pension schemes
MINUTES
Ms Morutoa welcomed the Swiss delegation, and hoped that the meeting should
strengthen the relationship between the two countries.
Members and Swiss delegates then introduced themselves.
The Chairperson asked the delegates to say what their expectations from this
meeting of Parliament were.
Ms Ruth Gaby said it was a pleasure and an honour to be with and share their thoughts
with parliamentarians in South Africa. The Swiss delegation had come to study
the implementation of sexual and reproductive health strategies and South
Africa's plans for HIV/Aids, which were so prevalent. They also wished to learn
about South Africa’s strategies to fight against gender violence. In the
political field they were also very interested to see the process
post-apartheid in light of the new and special constitution, and to study its
implementation.
Ms Morutoa explained that members from the Joint Monitoring Committee and also
members from the Committees dealing with Social Development issues were present
at the meeting.
Ms Morutoa said that as far as gender and gender violence were concerned,
several laws were passed by Parliament and the constitutional gender machinery
comprised of the Commission on Gender Equality and the Office on the Status of
Women, situated in the President’s office. There was also this current
Parliamentary Committee that monitored the effect of laws passed, aimed to
protect women from violence and to ensure that they were empowered.
She noted that Members would be speaking further on the constitution.
Ms B Ngcobo (ANC) submitted that South Africa had a comprehensive plan on
HIV/Aids that was looking into how to deal with the pandemic. It was also
looking at reproductive health, including the Act that gave a choice on
termination of pregnancy. Much work was being done in the area of gender-based
violence and the Departments of Justice and of Social Development were running
campaigns in the provinces to prevent gender-based violence, entitled
"Sixteen Days of Activism for 365 Days of the Year". There was much
gender-based violence in the country.
Ms C Dudley (ACDP) thought it was particularly interesting that in the 1980s it
was estimated that by 2020 the population of South Africa would be 80 million.
Now, in light of the termination of pregnancy legislation, which she noted her
party found problematic, and the HIV/Aids pandemic and the general decrease in
families, it was estimated that the population would only be 50 million.
Kgoshi W Morwamoche (ANC) acknowledged the role played by the Swiss government
during the liberation struggle and asked the delegates to pass acknowledgment
to their government. In referring to social development, he noted that the
Department of Social Development (DSD) addressed the alleviation of poverty,
old age pensions, child support grants, disability grants, and many other
grants, which were based on a means test to qualify. He enquired how the Swiss
handled the question of social grants.
Ms S Rajbally (MF) noted that thirteen years ago the country was still under
the old regime that prevented free movement of people. Social development
included poverty, children and the elderly. The Committee undertook oversight
visits to check that people in rural areas were kept comfortably and were
receiving their grants. The Committee worked with the Office on the Status of
Women to check that as many areas as possible were covered.
Ms J Masilo (ANC) mentioned that the controversial Civil Union legislation and
enquired how same sex unions had been dealt with in Switzerland.
Mr B Mkongi (ANC) wished to put the discussion into perspective in relation to
the agenda and the report given on issues of social development in South
Africa. He noted that South Africa had, in 1998, developed a White Paper on
population and development in the country, with the aim of integrating social
development and population development, which was at that stage favouring
certain groups and marginalising black Africans. The policy approach aimed to
alleviate poverty. This conformed to the Bill of Rights entrenched in the South
African Constitution. South Africa endorsed the International Conference on
Population and Development, and the approach informed each Department on
population and development.
Mr Mkongi continued that one issue related to health questions for women and
children, and another to the Labour Relations Act. Education and gender
equality must also conform to the policy. HIV and Aids could not be considered
in isolation from population and development. A number of structures, such as
the Commission on Gender Equality, the National Youth Commission, the Umsobomvu
Youth Fund, and many public entities of government were responsible for
implementation.
Ms Masilo noted that most of the policies were working to assist women and to
alleviate poverty. There was a school nutrition scheme, feeding children at
primary level. Free medical health care was available for pregnant women and
children under six years. There was also the Older Persons Act, which was yet
to be implemented, but which catered for care of the frail and elderly. The
Children’s Bill set out the requirements for care of children in South Africa.
The legislation on termination of pregnancy had been mentioned, and she stated
that there was a distinction made between abortion and choice of termination.
She noted that in passing the Civil Union Act, Parliament had not wanted to
amend the Constitution or tamper with the existing Marriage Act. She noted that
the officials were not compelled to marry same-sex couples. to marry these people, but those people were
there and those issues had to be addressed.
She touched on recognition by the UN of violence against women and children as
human rights issues. The strategies included the National Crime Prevention
Strategy, the Sexual Offences Guidelines, the Justice Department Gender Policy,
the National Plan of Action for Children in 1999, and a Victim Empowerment
Programme for victims of violence. Three new acts to entrench women’s rights
were passed by Parliament during 1998: the Domestic Violence Act that protected
women and men against domestic violence, the Maintenance Act, allowing
deduction from salaries of those who refused to maintain their children, and
Recognition of Customary Marriages Act, providing for rights of wives of
polygamous unions.
Ms E Mabe (ANC) explained how the constitution was implemented. She gave the
historic background and noted that the constitution recognised three
institutions: the legislative arm of Members of Parliament, the judicial arm,
comprising an independent judiciary, and the Chapter 9 Institutions committed
to ensuring implementation of the Bill of Rights, and the Executive. There was
also an electoral commission.
Ms Morutoa asked whether the Swiss delegation wished to comment.
Ms Ruth Gaby found it interesting to listen to the concerns of the South
African Parliament. Domestic violence was high not only in South Africa, but
was also in European countries including Switzerland. A new law was passed in
Switzerland on 1 January 2007 whereby the perpetrators of domestic violence had
to leave the house, were forbidden to have any contact with the family, and had
to attend counselling. Parliament had asked for more shelters for women but
that had not been possible, and had also sought further counselling
institutions against violence, but lack of funding had hindered this. It was
sometimes difficult to have institutions to help the poor and elderly people
and victims of violence.
Ms Gaby made reference also to migrants, foreigners and asylum seekers.
Switzerland was a small country with a population of 7.5 million. Many migrants
and foreigners, including from Africa, sought work in Switzerland. The right
wing groups, which were in the majority, held racist views so it was sometimes
difficult to ease the situation of migrants and asylum seekers, of whom many
were returned to their countries of origin. It was a shame that the laws were
so strong since asylum seekers were sometimes from vulnerable groups.
Another delegate from Switzerland elaborated on finances. The State, due to its
tax laws, had very restricted finances due to tax laws. A strong right wing
sought to reduce taxes to give the economy more freedom. The delegates present
today were from the left wing.
The delegate stated that the pension system was in three tiers. The first was
run by the State where everybody received a basic subsistence grant financed
through wages. Employer contributions were 5% of wages to the fund, and 5%
contributed by the employee. Those earning more would therefore contribute
more, but all payouts were the same. Private pensions were financed through
wages, but run by private insurance companies. The third leg was private
savings. All old age pensioners received a grant
In relation to the questions on same sex partnerships, the delegate reported
that the Swiss Parliament had changed its constitution a few years ago to
disallow gender discrimination. Although a bill was passed in 1981, gender
equality was a hard-fought battle and there was still a fight for equal wages
for men and women. There was also provision made that nobody should be
discriminated against by reason of sexual preference. A new law on same sex
marriage was passed a few years ago. It did not allow marriage by that name,
but the legal consequences of the same sex unions equated to marriage. No
adoption was presently possible by same sex couples, but this was an ongoing
process.
Another Swiss delegate explained that Switzerland was reviewing social grants.
They tried to keep people in employment as long as possible, so that, together
with commercial enterprises, they would make the workplace better. Life
expectancy was 80 for women and 78 for men so when they grew older there was a
need for social benefits. A system of allocating flats was being looked at.
Ms Ruth Gaby said that the delegates had observed a very different demographic
situation to that in Switzerland, where at least 20% of the people were over
65, life expectancy was high, and youth were only 20% of the population. The
delegates had noted many women politicians but asked about women's economic
empowerment. Further there was high prevalence of HIV and AIDS. They were aware
of the UN education, gender issues and nutrition programmes.
Mr Morwamoche added that the UN Population Fund was the fund responsible for
population and development programmes and South Africa was fully committed to
addressing population and development issues. The International Conference on
Population and Development was the first social sector international agreement that South Africa
signed immediately after 1994, and since then South Africa had tried hard to
implement its recommendations, going so far as to combine a review of the
efforts in conjunction with the ten-year review of democracy in 2004. The
efforts the Swiss government was making were noted, and this Committee believed
the two countries could work together towards addressing these.
A Swiss delegate noted that termination of pregnancy was allowed in Switzerland
since 2002, but there had to be good reason provided, such as lack of
facilities to have a child. It was not sufficient simply not to want a child.
There was a long struggle to get this legislation passed in Switzerland.
Ms Dudley referred to women in business and the economy, and noted that South
Africa had become used to quotas that were generally accepted, but there was
more of a focus on women at top management level. The informal business in
South Africa was increasing and women were a large part of that informal
economy. The demographics were now not so far apart in terms of gender parity.
There were less children being born because of the terminations allowed, less
young adults because of HIV and AIDS, and more elderly. South Africa was
probably fast approaching a similar situation to Switzerland. The ACDP would be
particularly concerned about the lack of consciousness of the effects of
legislation.
The Chairperson interjected that she should have highlighted that the leading
party was the African National Congress, and that Members present here today
represented opposition parties as well as the ANC. ANC was committed to parity.
Ms Rajbally mentioned that there were more women than men in the
delegation. She asked what was the ratio
in the Swiss parliament.
The reply was that there were 25% women.
The Chairperson stated that in the South African parliament it was at 42%; in
the National Assembly 33% and in the NCOP 35%. The Speaker and the Deputy
President were women.
Mr Mkongi raised the issue of health problems, particularly sexual diseases, in
which the government was making progress. Young people comprised 40% of the
population. Youth unemployment was high.
He wished to add that the committees and joint committees on women, youth,
children and people with disabilities consisted of members of both the NA and
NCOP, meeting on issues of common interest, and Departments appearing before
the committees would have to explain how far they were moving on policy
implementation. Legislation that did not assist in moving forward would be
re-examined with a view to amendment or repeal. Such issues were dealt with
through committees of parliament, which had the role therefore of translating
policies into implementation.
Ms Ngcobo explained that in order for these acts and laws to begin to address
the issues of people in the community,
the constituency model was applied. Parliamentarians had an oversight role and
must ensure that the laws passed were actually benefiting the people they were
made for.
Ms Ngcobo said that there were problems in backlog. The Accelerated Shared
Growth Initiative for South Africa (ASGISA) looked at how best to deal with
issues to ensure that all South Africans benefited from the democracy. Public
hearings were held to give people a voice in parliament on proposed
legislation. A further important matter was the skills shortage, as it was
impossible to deliver without scarce skills being available.
Ms Dudley noted that she had been in Parliament only since 1999 but had noted a
much stronger emphasis in the past few years on oversight and concerted
attempts to have this role functioning efficiently.
Ms Rajbally asked the Swiss delegates to advise at what age the State grant for
children ceased.
A delegate replied that this was normally 18, but a person undergoing further
education might be eligible, on application and giving proof, up to age 25.
The Chairperson presented a gift to the delegation.
The meeting was adjourned.
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