Security Regulation Industry Bill: deliberations

Meeting report

SAFETY AND SECURITY PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
14 September 2001
SECURITY INDUSTRY REGULATION BILL: DELIBERATIONS

Chairperson: Mr M E George

Relevant documents:
Security Industry Regulation Bill [B12 – 2001]
Departmental proposal on the definition of private investigator
Departmental proposal on Clause 10
Democratic Alliance proposals on Clauses 6, 11 and 13.

SUMMARY
The Committee revisited issues that had surfaced in their previous deliberations. The Democratic Alliance presented written proposals to the Committee on Clauses 6, 11 and 13. It was however evident that members needed more time to scrutinise the proposals and it was consequently decided to delay discussing the proposals until the Committee’s next meeting. The Committee was however unanimous in its support for a provision to be included in Clause 10 making the Authority accountable to Parliament.

MINUTES
Security Industry Regulation Bill
Chapter 1: Definitions
Clause 1: Definitions
"private investigator"
The Chairperson, Mr George was satisfied with the Department’s proposal on the definition of "private investigator". He felt that it encapsulated exactly what he had requested of them.
The IFP, ACDP, PACA and DA were all in agreement that the proposed definition was acceptable.
Mr O Kgauwe (ANC) still had some reservations on the categories of persons that were to be excluded in the definition.
Mr Soman (Safety and Security Secretariat) proposed that a proviso could be included so as to cover all those activities that are not currently covered by the definition.
The Chair asked the Department and the Secretariat to come up with an acceptable proviso. The insertion of a proviso would however mean that the portion of the proposed definition after paragraph "c" would have to be deleted.
The Committee agreed

Chapter 2:Security Industry Regulatory Authority
Clause 10: Accountability of Council
The Committee had in their previous meeting requested the Department to draft a provision to be included in the clause allowing for accountability to Parliament.
Adv Kok, Chief Legal Adviser to the Department presented their proposal to the Committee.
For detail on the proposal please refer to the attached document.
The Committee accepted the proposal.

The DA presented a written submission to the Committee on their proposals to Clauses 6, 11, and 13.
The Chair asked the Committee to comment on the proposals.

Clause 11: Ministerial supervision of Authority.
Adv Gaum explained that the DA felt that the clause at present gives the Minister too much discretionary power. The DA does agree that the Minister must have the power to appoint and fire members of the Council. He must even have the power to dissolve the Council but not have a direct say in the running of the Council. The impression that the clause creates is that the Minister may run the Authority as he so pleases.

After members had read the proposal on Clause 11, it was evident that the majority of members found it unacceptable.
Adv Gaum pleaded members to carefully consider the proposal before rejecting it.
The Chair suggested that the Committee consider the proposal and discuss it at a later time.
The Committee agreed.

Clause 6: Establishment and constitution of Council and appointment of councillors
The proposal by the DA makes provision for the appointment of the Council by the Minister in consultation with Cabinet, on recommendation of a Selection Committee
appointed by the Minister, recommendations made after receiving nominations , compiling a shortlist and interviewing candidates, which nominations and shortlist to be tabled before the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security before appointments are made.
The DA proposal also makes provision for representativity of employers and labour in the Council. This is done by way of the formation of standing Committees for employers and employees.

The Chair pointed out that the DA proposal is in essence placing the Executive above Parliament. This is contrary to the Constitution.

Adv P Swart (DA) emphasised that Parliament is in no way involved in the interviewing or shortlisting process. They are merely being informed about the list of candidates.

The Chair stated that it is clear from the DA’s proposal that they wish for representativity for both employers and employees on the Council. Mr George stated that a decision needs to be taken whether the Council should remain totally independent from the industry or not.

Mr M Booi (ANC) and Mr Ndlovu (IFP) suggested that the Committee be given time to scrutinise the proposal.

The Committee agreed.

Clause 13: Committees to assist Council
Adv Swart stated that the DA fully supports the provisions of the clause, as it is the Bill. The proposal is merely detailing additions that are being suggested to the clause.

The Committee agreed to come back to the clause as it ties in directly with Clause 6.

Clause 14: Staff of Authority
The ANC called for Clause 14(7) to be amended. As it stands it makes provision that persons who are currently employed by the Security Officers Interim Board would be guaranteed employment when the new Authority comes into being.

Mr Kgauwe emphasised that persons should be required to re-apply for their jobs. Jobs should not be automatically allocated.

The Chair agreed.

Adv Kok stated that the issue is complex and that they have debated it at length. He stated that firing people in terms of legislation and forcing them to re-apply for their jobs has a tendency to lower morale and productivity.

The Chair suggested that the Committee deal with the issue at their next meeting.

The meeting was adjourned.