Impact of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act: hearings

IMPROVEMENT OF THE STATUS OF YOUTH, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND IMPROVEMENT OF LIFE AND STATUS OF WOMEN JOINT MONITORING COMMITTEES
18 October 2006
IMPACT OF THE PROMOTION OF EQUALITY AND PREVENTION OF UNFAIR DISCRIMINATION ACT: HEARINGS

Joint Chairpersons: Ms M Morutoa (ANC) and Ms W Newhoudt-Druchen (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Auditor General’s Office submission
National Council for Persons with Physical Disabilities submission
Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund submission
Star Upliftment Centre submission
National Youth Commission submission

SUMMARY
The Committee considered submissions on the impact of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act 4 of 2000. The Auditor General’s Office reported how it had been interpreting the Act and stressed that education on the Act was also very necessary. It was necessary to include the Council of Traditional Leaders and to ensure continuous publicity and monitoring. Questions raised by members related to the performance audit, the disability employment ratios within the office of the Auditor General, and the role that this office would play in communication and education.

Star Upliftment Centre discussed the history of the centre. The goal was to get the parents more involved in the education of their children, and to give parents the skills to manage with the child at home. The Centre expressed concern on the lack of transport and services in the area, and the difficulty in accessing funding. Interest was expressed by the Members to better the situation and to possibly visit the center in due course.

The National Council for Persons with Physical Disabilities undertook the tasks of lobbying for the physically disabled, people who became deaf later in life, and people suffering with multi-disabilities. Transport and access to buildings posed major problems, and it was suggested that government work in partnership with the private sector to provide those facilities, and also that tenders be made available to those in the disability sector. The Council undertook training to ensure Trade Unions could better represent their members with disabilities. Perceptions needed to be changed, and the disabled community given the opportunity speak for themselves. Questions by Members addressed the transport systems, the needs of children in schools, access to buildings and the role of the umbrella bodies.

The Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund discussed the rights of children with disabilities, and stated that the Fund covered the well-being of the children, a nurturing environment, skills development for those up to 22 years, and skills development in the areas of sports, art and culture. Research and information were needed and a better approach to policy making. Discrimination, and access to services and transport were problematic. There needed to be a holistic approach so children with disabilities could interact socially with one another and acquire necessary life skills. 

Mr Ian Hutton, speaking as a representative for blind persons, raised the shortage of trained guide dogs and the consequent necessity for orientation mobility training to assist blind people to become independent. Blind children were often not given enough stimulation and were usually not integrated. There was a need for guidance to parents. There should be government subsidies, systematic training, continued outreach and early intervention. Questions by members addressed the mobility training and the need for better education and testing.

The Centre for Deaf Studies, WITS University, had a project that aimed at early intervention and testing for babies. She stated that the Centre could assist the parents through the process and educate the family on how to cope with a deaf child in the home. Questions related to testing of babies, public awareness, and the need for long term strategy.

The National Youth Commission was concerned with the skills shortages and high unemployment rate amongst the youth, especially graduates. Youth needed to be included in the Equality Act as an integrated approach was necessary. Questions addressed the high number of child-headed households, the high drop-out rate from schools, and the possible overlap between the Commission and other projects. Members were not convinced that the youth required to be specifically catered for in the Act.

MINUTES
Submission by Auditor General  
Ms E Marichal (Senior Manager, Transformation, Auditor General) briefed the Committee on the drafting style of the Act, how the act had been monitored and the interpretation of the Act. She stated that education on the Act was very necessary, and, as with the Employment Equity Act, there was an extensive amount of publicity. The monitoring of the Act and the inclusion of the traditional leaders in the application of the Act needed to be taken into account. The Act needed to be accessible to schools and colleges and there needed to be creative use of the media to assist the public in awareness.

Discussion
The Chairperson commented that the disability sector was concerned about the transport issues but had not been heard over the last 12 years. The employment of people with disabilities had been difficult because of the inaccessibility of the buildings and places of work. The Equality Courts seemed to be inaccessible. She questioned the office of the Auditor General (AG) on whether it also undertook a performance audit as well as a financial audit.

Ms Marichal replied that the performance audit looked at the value of the time spent at a government department. The Act also needed to be made easier to understand. Those who faced the problem of unfair discrimination needed to know their rights.

Ms Chalmers (ANC) questioned whether the Auditor General had an oversight role and who the stakeholders were.

Ms Weber commented that no person was taking the responsibility to inform the public about the courts.

Ms Marichal replied that the AG saw its role in the Equality Act as first informing and then communicating within the departments. However, it had also given its own time to a school, so that they were not only giving financial but real support to other people.

An ANC Member commented that the submission was very enlightening and that the commitment displayed by the AG with regard to disabilities was helpful. He questioned whether the Auditor General’s Office had itself employed anyone with a disability.

Ms Marichal replied that currently 2% of the staff were disabled and the AG planned to increase that number up to 5% over a period of time.

Ms Chalmers (ANC) questioned what type of support was happening. It was also stated that there seemed to be a lack of awareness of the Equality Court. She questioned how the Auditor General could make a difference.

The Chairperson stated that R500 million was made available to make the Equality Court accessible but only R10 million had been allocated for this year. It was clear that the plans needed to be more fully implemented.

Ms Marichal replied that the performance audit needed to be improved upon and that the role of the Equality Courts needed to be looked at.

The Chairperson mentioned that several letters were sent from people with intellectual disability and that they received no reply. It was disappointing that they had to go the legal route to get some kind of result. The training of staff needed to be done internally and the statutory bodies must clearly respond. It was not only people with physical disabilities that were discriminated against in issues relating to the Department of Education.

Star Upliftment Centre submission
Ms Nolufefe Jiya (Director, Star Upliftment Centre) gave a background to the Centre, stating that it dealt with children with disabilities from birth to ten years old. The Centre was in the Eastern Cape, near King William’s Town, and was established in 1999. She explained what services were offered at the Centre and how difficult it was for the parents to access basic medical and educational services. The goal of the centre was to get the parents more involved in the education of their children and to give parents the skills to manage with the child at home. The future challenges that would be faced by the Centre were outlined, and the unforeseen circumstances that faced them were explained. The Centre expressed concern on the lack of transport and services in the area, and the difficulty in accessing funding.

Discussion
The Chair asked for clarification on the resources that the Centre received and if there was any other support that it received.

Another ANC member expressed admiration for the work of Centre and questioned whether support was received from local government.

Ms Weber also questioned who was now funding the Centre, and how it would take steps to include disabled pupils into the ‘mainstream’ education.

Ms Chalmers mentioned that the nearest Equality Court would be in the Alice area. She also questioned how the children adjusted to been a part of mainstream schools.

Ms Jiya replied that the Centre had sent funding proposals to many government departments and was waiting to hear from the Social Development Department. She stated that early integration of children with disabilities was helpful for all the children.

Ms Jiya also mentioned that the transport was a further problem and accessibility for wheelchairs and crutches was difficult. She had not been aware that there was an Equality Court in the area. Making contact government departments had become difficult as mostly the person was away and others could not answer questions..

The Chair asked whether the Centre had had any contact with the Office on the Status of Disabled Persons (OSDP).

Ms Jiya replied that the Centre had contacted OSDP but had not as yet received a reply.

Ms D Morobi (ANC) questioned whether the Centre had any other donors, particularly from the private sector.

Ms Jiya replied that a number of companies had assisted in various ways, in particular in food and furniture donations for the Centre.

Ms Chalmers believed that the State should be taking more responsibility and questioned whether the Centre could get assistance from the National Lottery.

Ms Jiya replied that the Centre was in the process of sending an application to the National Lottery.

The Chairperson questioned whether they had contacted the Thabo Mbeki Trust Fund.

Ms Jiya replied that further details were needed regarding the Fund.

The Chair commented that there were many similarities between the submissions. All comments had been noted and would be forwarded on to the relevant people. A list of the Equality Courts would be given to Ms Jiya.

National Council for Persons with Physical Disabilities in SA submission
Ms Therina Wentzel (Manager, Advocacy and Resource and Social Development, National Council for Persons with Physical Disabilities in South Africa ) thanked the committee for the opportunity, introduced the National Council and explained its role and its partnerships structure with other organisations. The National Council was lobbying for the physically disabled, people who became deaf later in life, and people suffering with multi-disabilities. Transport was also identified as a problem and it was suggested that government work in partnership with the private sector to provide those facilities. Further buildings and other public areas needed to be made accessible to the disabled and tenders to that effect should be made available to those in the disability sector. The Council was undertaking training with regard to the trade unions,  so these could better represent their members with disabilities. Tourism had succeeded in changing rulings for those who were mobility impaired to give them access to the beaches. The point was also made that people with disabilities were either portrayed as role models (as in the Para-Olympic games) or as victims, and perceptions needed to be changed. Consultants were used when the disabled community would much rather speak for themselves, indicate what they required, and all disabled people should be given a voice.

Discussion
Several members commented that the presentation was impressive.

The Chair questioned the Council’s view on the integrated transport system and what barriers were faced in this regard.

An ANC member asked about the Transport Indaba.

Ms Wentzel replied that she thought it would be better if there was a policy that would be developed first so that a strategy could be followed thereafter. This would be useful as every city had a different structure to deal with. Those with impairments were addressed under the same transport strategies in the groupings with the illiterate and foreigners who could not understand the language, although their needs were different. She stated that the transport system should be integrated. The National Council had not been invited to the Transport Indaba but were waiting to see if it would be possible to speak at the Indaba.

The Chairperson asked what criteria were used to decide on the needs of children in schools and how integration could be achieved into mainstream education. .

Ms Wentzel replied that there was already a struggle in the Active Learning Centres and that all the needs could not be catered for. A further problem was that the teachers were inadequately trained.

The Chairperson commented that it was extremely difficult for a person who was hard of hearing to acquire a hearing aid at the cost of R7000, since medical aid would only cover R2000 of that amount.

Ms Chalmers questioned whether the Equality Courts were useful and whether there was an awareness of them. She also asked how the decision was made for interventions.

Another member also commented that the Equality Courts faced a huge challenge in ensuring accessibility.

Ms Weber stated that it would be useful to report any stigma that was experienced and that if there was non-compliance with regard to buildings that too should be reported.

Ms Wentzel stated that accessibility to buildings for the physically disabled was still very difficult as the National Building Act did not specify any requirements for buildings that were only one storey high. Toilets were frequently inaccessible and add-ons to buildings were also unacceptable.

Joint Chairperson Ms Morutoa asked if the Commission took part in the 16 days of Activism on a yearly basis and if it also engaged with the Gender Commission.

Ms Wentzel replied that the disabled did speak up, but some women chose not to speak, while others would take the opportunity. The Gender Commission dealt with women’s issues but the venue was inaccessible, and even when the venue was changed the lunch venue was inaccessible.

In general Ms Wentzel stated that the OSDP was inadequate, as it was not integrated from the top down. Once a person with a disability had joined, nothing would be done to assist that person  after a few months. There needed to be an integrated disability strategy. There were no formal surveys of people with disabilities and therefore it was difficult for those people that were not disabled to cater to their needs. Organisations and individual people with disabilities should form partnerships on a formal basis.

Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund submission
Ms Sibongile Mkhabela (CEO, Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund) introduced herself and colleagues.

Ms Irene Nonhlanlha (Disability Programme Specialist) stated that the Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund (NMCF) had started in 1995 as an NGO, and was a partner organization to the Star Upliftment Centre. In advocating the rights of children with disabilities the Fund covered the well-being of the children, a nurturing environment, skills development for those up to 22 years, and skills development in the areas of sports, art and culture. The elements that were missing from the Act were the research and information that was used for policy making. The children also experienced discrimination and did not get the services that they needed. The access to adequate transport was a continuing problem as they could not acquire an education if they were unable to get to school. There needed to be a holistic approach to children who had disabilities so that they could interact socially with one another and acquire the life skills needed to cope. Many disabled children were abused and neglected. They needed to be able to access the services available to them.

Submission by Mr Ian Hutton
Mr Ian Hutton (Spokesman for blind persons) raised the issue that a blind person needing to get somewhere would need a guide dog, orientation mobility training or any other training that would enable them to be independent. The guide dogs were not able to be trained quickly enough to meet the need and therefore having mobility trainers for the blind would helpful. Blind children were often not given enough stimulation and were usually not integrated. There was a need for guidance to parents so that the blindness in their child could be identified early. Government did not subsidise the mobility orientation in schools, where it was most needed, so that blind people could be given the confidence in themselves to cope on their own. There needed to be systematic training and continued outreach, along with early intervention with regard to blindness.

Centre for Deaf Studies, Wits University submission
Dr Claudine Storbeck (Co-ordinator: Centre for Deaf Studies, WITS University) shortly presented an introduction to a project named “HI HOPES” which aimed at early intervention and testing for babies. She stated that the Centre could assist the parents through the process and educate the family on how to cope with a deaf child in the home.

Discussion
Joint Chairperson Ms Niewoudt-Druchen (ANC) questioned whether the nurses at the clinics would be qualified to test babies for deafness.

Dr Storbeck replied that the clinics did have a test, which would be a simple one to learn and to train people to do. She commented that deaf children had a seven year delay in language development because they were not stimulated enough and that communities needed to be trained in this regard.

The Chairperson questioned whether there was a public awareness of these tests, especially in the rural areas.

Dr Storbeck replied that there was currently insufficient awareness throughout, and she thought that a long term strategy was needed.

The Chairperson asked whether the school in Worcester was the only place that the blind and deaf could get schooling and it there were schools other than in the main centres in South Africa.

Mr Hutton replied that there was a pilot scheme in Gauteng, but in the Cape region the Worcester school was the only one of its type. This was in the process of ordering equipment, such as special canes, for those people were were both deaf and becoming blind, but the canes were expensive.

Ms C Zikalala (ANC) expressed her excitement that so many young people of a high calibre were being represented. She asked if it was possible if they could be invited to address the communities. She also explained that the mothers needed to be educated and that something needed to be done so that the parents did not pity themselves.

The Chairperson questioned how the training for the orientation mobility was arranged.

Ms Chalmers enquired as to how the orientation mobility training worked and also how braille publications and organisations were funded. She stated it was amazing to see the positive effects of the mobility training on their ability to manage their lives in a confident manner.

Mr Ian Hutton responded that the government did not recognize mobility training and he was in the process of lobbying for it to be recognized.

Joint Chairperson Ms Niewoudt-Druchen commented that there needed to be public awareness of measles and how it could cause deafness, as well as the fact that folic acid was needed for babies with spinal malfunctions.

National Youth Commission submission
Ms Nomi Nkondlo (Chairperson of the National Youth Commission) gave the history of the commission and stated that youth were a group that needed special attention. The Commission was concerned with skills shortages amongst the youth,  and the high unemployment rate amongst graduates. Access to the business sector was difficult as the youth was viewed as a high risk. The youth needed to be included in the Equality Act in an integrated approach.

Discussion
The Chairperson was bothered by the high incidence of HIV that led to child-headed households. She questioned whether anything had been done for youth heading households.

Ms Zikalala commented that she was concerned about the high drop-out rate of the youth in schools.

Ms Nkondo responded that these reasons were precisely why the youth needed to be catered for and that the Commission was in the process of dealing with the child headed households. It was equally concerned with the rate of drop-outs from high schools and commented that the Department of Education needed to promote re-integration in schools and subsidies were needed

Ms Niewoudt-Druchen added that she was not convinced that the youth needed to be included in the Act as they already had high visibility.

Ms Weber replied that it would be helpful to find out if there was an overlap between the National Youth Commission and any of the other organisations like the Joint Initiative for Priority Skills (JIPSA and the Sector Education and Training authorities. She commented that the youth did not seem motivated enough to help themselves and she was concerned about the culture of entitlement that was developing.

Ms Nkondo stated that there needed to be an integrated approach and the various departments needed to co operate since the youth was a cross-cutting issue. There also needed to be an appropriate response to the challenges she had raised. She noted that it would be useful to include the youth as proper legislation would give proper recourse to solving the problems.

The Chairperson announced that Gender Equality would be discussed the following day.

The meeting was adjourned.