National Agricultural Marketing Council; Kwazulu Land Affairs Amendment Bill; National Forests Bill

AGRICULTURE, LAND AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE
4 August 1998
NATIONAL AGRICULTURAL MARKETING COUNCIL; KWAZULU LAND AFFAIRS AMENDMENT BILL; NATIONAL FORESTS BILL

Documents handed out.
Negotiating Mandates from the Eastern Cape, Kwazulu Natal, Western Cape and the Free State.

SUMMARY
The committee heard representation from the National Agricultural Marketing Council on the Application for a statutory levy on wheat. They will return next week with negotiating mandates. The Select Committee passed the Kwazulu Land Affairs Amendment Bill [B66-98], and requested amendments from the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry on the National Forests Bill [B71-98]. The Department will return with amendments next week.

DETAILED MINUTES
The National Agricultural Marketing Council (NAMC) made presentation on an application for a statutory levee on wheat. Dr. Broch explained that the process for an application was that an application is made to the Minister, who consults the NAMC and the two committees in Parliament. The application was received from the Wheat Forum, and consists of a R4 levee for research, and 50c for the provision of information services.

Dr. Broch noted that there was a levee on wheat that ran from March through to October on all wheat milled. The new levee will be on all wheat produced locally, and any imported wheat. The imported wheat levee is to ensure a degree of certainty for the funding for research in periods where there is a low local crop yield, and wheat is imported.

The NAMC had set up an internal committee, which reported to the council. The council majority view had been to support the R4,50 levee. The key reasons were that all the directly affected groups, through the wheat forum, were in favour of the levee. The levee would be difficult to collect on a voluntary basis, and would be more efficiently collected through one administration system. The consumer groups had general support for the levee, with the impact on the price of a loaf of bread being roughly 0,27 cents. It was noted that most countries had some form of levy or governmental assisted research.

A minority feeling in the council had recommended that the levee be disallowed. The group argued that the levee was not the right measure for promoting research. The levee was intrusive, and a case could be made that it infringed on the constitution. A levee was not in line with a non-interventionist approach to an economy, and created distortions in the market.

In responding to a question, Dr. Brock added that if there was not a levee, the other option for funding research would be a government subsidy (already at 70% of the research funding, but expected to decrease due to fiscal pressure), or for private funding. He added that there was little incentive for private research as it was difficult to receive continuous returns on the investment as wheat could easily be pollinated and used year after year.

Dr. Brock asked the members to take note in the documentation of the section on the assistance to small-scale farmers that would be a large part of the research drive. The levee would need to be renewed every year, and therefore the performance will be closely monitored. The committee will return next week with mandates on the levees from the provincial committees.

The committee turned to the National Water Bill. Four of the provinces had written mandates, with proposed amendments being submitted by three provinces. The Kwazulu Natal delegation introduced its amendments. They had received representation from the Forests Industry Association, and the KwaZulu Conservation Services.

They requested clarity on Section 28 of the Bill. They understood there was a problem o long term contracts inherited from the previous homelands, but were worried the provision was to wide and would impact on the industry in terms of future contracts.

Ms. Lael Bethlehem introduced herself as the Chief Director of Forestry. She said that the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry administered commercial forests in previous homelands to supply wood. They had inherited contracts that contained elements that were not in the interest of the public good. Some of the contracts were for perpetuity, at discounted prices, and included compensation provisions if they were ever cancelled. These contracts were costing R300 million to run, and sold at considerable benefits. The contracts were all entered into with white owned companies, as contracts could not be signed with black contractors at the time. Therefor black companies did not have access to state wood. These contracts were therefor a problem for public interests.

Many of the contracts specify volumes that must be provided. In some cases the volumes were above the capacity of the forests. The forests were therefor being cut early to supply the volumes, and the process was unsustainable.

Section 28 was an attempt to do something about the problem. The Department was aware of their constitutional obligations and restrictions. Section 28 imposed to important principles on all contracts. The first was that they could terminate at a 3-year notice period, and that the volume in the contracts could be amended to allow for sustainable forestry. The time period of 3 years was open to debate.

The KwaZulu delegate understood and accepted the explanation. However, they were concerned whether this was the best method for controlling the problem, as the clause reads to apply to past and future contracts. Could a restriction not be placed rather on contracts allowing for action in the "public interest"? If this were the case, the 3-year period would be fine.

A committee member noted that the clause read limiting the termination time to not more that 3 years, so it could conceivably be only a day.

Ms. Bethlehem replied that the clause referred to future contracts due to the process of state forest restructuring. State forests would in future be allowed to be leased. The Department wanted to ensure that the leased did not enter into any contracts that would have similar problems. The three-year period originated in current SAFCOL contracts, which were accepted by all its clients.

A departmental advisor, Judge Dodsen, noted that if section 28 only applied to present contracts, the Department could be accused of being discriminatory against current holders. The three-year period did have an exemption clause in which the Minister could make it longer to stimulate investment in specific projects and leases.

The department agreed to go back and relook at the drafting.

The Kwazulu delegate continued with their queries, A grammatical error was pointed out in section 34(2), which the department agreed to look at.

Section 32 refers to the National Forests Advisory Council. The council is appointed by the minister, who is required to make appointments to balance various interests in the industry. The KwaZulu delegate noted that they had received a concern form the Forestry Industry that the appointments meant to represent the various groups did not require to be approved by the various groups. The Department responded by saying that many of the groups listed in the section did not have formal structures, and it would be difficult to require approval from sectors where approval could not be found. The Kwazulu representative accepted the explanation, and hoped the Minister would be sympathetic to the concern raised.

The KwaZulu representative moved on to section 36, noting that if the Council did not reach agreement, the minister could take a decision. They queried whether the council should not rather be required to go through an arbitration process.

The Department responded saying that the council mainly dealt with scientific and technical issues, which did not really lend themselves to arbitration. Further they were concerned that the arbitration route could give members of the council an informal veto power, and could delay work and implementation. Kwazulu Natal accepted the explanation.

The Kwazulu Delegation referred to section 45, asking whether there could not be more clarity on the sections of the Bill that it applied to. The department agreed to look at it.

The next section was section 47. The Kwazulu delegate was concerned that the assignment to the Kwazulu Conservation services of indigenous forests could be reversed. Of particular concern was that the constitution had indigenous forest management listed in schedule four. The department agreed to take a closer look at the section to signal their intent more clearly. An initial suggestion was that the Minister would carry out section 47 in consultation with provinces. The Kwazulu delegation accepted that would go a long way to easing their concerns.

The Western Cape went through its mandate. The delegate queried whether parts of clause 3 were not covered by already existing legislation (act 43 of 86). The department responded by saying that they had checked the Act and were confident there was no overlap, but would take another look at it.

The Delegate asked for clarity of the term "poor" in section 24. The department stated that the term "indigent" was the correct legal term, but that in order to follow the principle of making Bills more readable the term poor had been used. The department would look at it.

The Western Cape thought that the repetition of "disadvantaged by unfair discrimination" was unnecessary in clause 34. The department responded saying that they were not sure the first usage covered all the others. There was a specific intent to represent specific sections on the Council.

The Western Cape delegate expressed concern that the Minister was going to appoint the Chair person of the council, rather than letting the council appoint it’s own chair. The department responded saying it was normal procedure for the Minister to appoint a chair. Judge Dodsen noted that it was an advisory council, and it was normal for ministerial appointment.

The Western Cape delegate had a further concern in clause 69, in which people could be arrested if suspected of being guilty. The department legal team said this was normal practice, and was in line with the constitutions.

The Department undertook to come back to the committee by Tuesday with amendments on the sections it had agreed to relook at.

The Committee turned to the Kwazulu Land Act. The Act was passed by the committee without any questions or amendments.

ANNEXURE:
NEGOTIATING MANDATE AGREED TO BY THE PROVINCIAL NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE KWAZULU LAND AFFAIRS AMENDMENT BILL [66-98]

DATE: 30 JULY 1998
The Provincial Standing Committee on the National Council of Provinces mandates the KwaZulu-Natal delegation to the National Council of Provinces- to support the Kwazulu LAND AFFAIRS AMENDMENT BILL, 66-98, as tabled in the. Select Committee on Land, Agriculture and Environmental Affairs and any amendments, providing that:

a) such amendment/s does/do not alter the essential elements of the Bill and;

b) consensus is reached on such proposed amendment/s by the Kwazulu-Natal delegates attending the Select Committee meeting on the bill.

In the event the proviso not being complied with, the proposed amendment/s must be referred to the Provincial Standing Committee on NCOP for decision

NEGOTIATING MANDATE AGREED TO BY THE PROVINCIAL NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE NATIONAL FORESTS BILL

30 JULY 1998
The Provincial Standing Committee on the National Council of Provinces mandates the KwaZulu Natal delegation to the National Council of Provinces to support the NATIONAL FORESTS BILL tabled in the Select Committee On Land, Agriculture and Environmental Affairs, subject to the following amendments and clarifications
1. Section 28: Clarity is required on the general effect of the implementation of this section with particular reference to its impact on existing and future Contracts.

2. Section 34 (2): Delete "by" and replace with from… after balance representation..

Section 34(2) g: Insert ...acceptable to the industry: and after "products industry.."

3. Section 36 (7) (b) : Delete "the minister- must consider all the views expressed in the Committee as conveyed by the chairperson of the committee" and replace with, ... the matter must be proceeded with in terms of section 45.

4. Section 45: Clarity is required as to the full intention of this Section.

5. Section 47 (2): This section needs to be reworded in order to retain present assignments not inconsistent with the act and to avoid duplication in the administration of indigenous forests and woodlands.

And any further amendments, providing that:

a) such amendment/s does/do not alter the essential elements of the Bill and;

b) Consensus is reached op such proposed amendment/s by the KwaZulu-Natal delegates attending the Select Committee meetings deliberating on the bill;

in the event the proviso not being complied with, the proposed amendment/s must be referred to the Provincial Standing Committee on NCOP for decision.

FREE STATE LEGISLATURE
SAFETY & SECURITY AND AGRICULTURE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
Report on negotiating mandate on National Forests Bill [71-98]

Terms of Reference
The National Forests Bill has Been referred to thc Safety & Security and Agriculture Committee by the Prioritizing Committee on 23 July 1998

Briefing
On 31 July 19931 Adv. Machaka of the Legislature Legal Unit briefed the Committee about the legal substance and effect of the Bill.

The Committee was informed that the purpose of the Bill, amongst others, is:

· to reform law On forests,
· provides for the new management of forests,
· gives Minister the power to administer the activities regarding the implementation on provision of the Bill,
· creates offences that will be enforced in the event of the contravention of the provision of this Bill e.g., destruction of trees in any natural forests,
it prohibits deforestation,
· it creates the National Forests Advisory Council that will advise the Minister in any matter relating to forestry in the republic, and
· it amends the objects of a public company incorporated by tile Minister so that he company, according to section 3 of the Management of State Forests Act, No 128 of 1992, shall effect the development in the long term of the forestry industry according to accepted commercial and environmental practice, in terms of clause 76 of the National Forests Bill.

Consultation
No consultation was done when the Bill was considered.

Inputs received
No inputs were received.

Consideration
The Committee considered the Bill clause by clause after receiving legal opinion.

Resolutions
The Committee resolved that the following negotiating mandate be conferred:

· To support the Bill without amendments, and
· Dr P. Gouws, Permanent Delegate, be designated to attend the Inter-provincial negotiation meeting scheduled to consider the Bill on Monday, 3 August 1998.

FREE STATE LEGISLATURE
SAFETY & SECURITY AND AGRICULTURE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE

Report on negotiating mandate on Kwazulu Land Affairs Amendment Bill [66-98]

1. Terms of Reference
The Kwazulu Land Affairs Amendment Bill has been referred to the Safety & Security and Agriculture Committee by the Prioritizing Committee on 23 July 1998.

2. Briefing
On 31 July 1998, Adv. Machaka of the Legislature's Legal Unit briefed the Committee about the legal substance and effect of the Sill.

The Committee was informed that the purpose of the Bill is to create legal certainty regarding the KwaZulu Land Affairs Act. 1992, so tat all actions performed by the Premier of the KwaZu1u.Natal, MEC’s and organs of provincial government are ratified for those actions were not provided for by the Kwazulu Land Affairs Act, 1992, regarding maintenance of land situated in the former Kwazulu.

Consultation
No consultation was done when the Bill was considered.

Inputs received
No inputs were received.

Consideration
The Committee considered the Bill clause by clause after receiving legal opinion.

Resolutions
The Committee resolved that the following negotiating mandate be conferred;

· To support the Bill without amendments, and
· Dr P.S. Gouws, Permanent Delegate, be designated to attend the Inter-provincial negotiation meeting scheduled to consider the Bill on Monday, 3 August 1998.

Report of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Environmental Affairs, Tourism and Gambling, on the National Forests Bill [b71-98], dated 3 August 1998, as follows:

The Standing Committee on Agriculture, Environmental Affairs, Tourism and Gambling, having considered the subject of the National Forests Bill [b71-98], referred to the Legislature in terms of the Rules of the National Council of Provinces (National Council of Provinces), begs to report that it confers on the Western Cape’s delegation in the National Council of Provinces the authority to support the Bill with the following amendments:

Clause 3:
1. On page 16, from line 47, to omit paragraph (3) (a).

Clause 24:
1. On page 36, in line 13, to define "poor" more clearly, possibly by regulation.

Clause 28:
1. On page 38, in paragraph (2) (a), the "freedom" of contractors should be guaranteed by the State and the three year period is too short.

Clause 34:
1. On page 46, in lines 19 and 21, "disadvantaged by unfair discrimination" should be omitted.
2. On page 46, in line 24, "forest" and "forest products" should be classified separately as these are separate industries.
3. On page 46, in line 46, omit "Minister" and substitute "Council".

Clause 35:
1. On page 46, in line 55, to omit "the chairperson of".

Clause 37:
1. On page 48, in line 49, the quorum should be prescribed by regulation and should not be at the discretion of the Minister.

Clause 69:
1. A person is innocent until proven guilty and not vice versa and the clause should be amended accordingly.

Report of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Environmental Affairs, Tourism and Gambling, on the National Forests Bill [b71-98], dated 3 August 1998, as follows:

The Standing Committee on Agriculture, Environmental Affairs, Tourism and Gambling, having considered the subject of the National Forests Bill [b71-98], referred to the Legislature in terms of the Rules of the National Council of Provinces (National Council of Provinces), begs to report that it confers on the Western Cape’s delegation in the National Council of Provinces the authority to support the Bill with the following amendments:

Clause 3:
1. On page 16, from line 47, to omit paragraph (3) (a).

Clause 24:
1. On page 36, in line 13, to define "poor" more clearly, possibly by regulation.

Clause 28:
1. On page 38, in paragraph (2) (a), the "freedom" of contractors should be guaranteed by the State and the three year period is too short.

Clause 34:
1. On page 46, in lines 19 and 21, "disadvantaged by unfair discrimination" should be omitted.
2. On page 46, in line 24, "forest" and "forest products" should be classified separately as these are separate industries.
3. On page 46, in line 46, omit "Minister" and substitute "Council".

Clause 35:
1. On page 46, in line 55, to omit "the chairperson of".

Clause 37:
1. On page 48, in line 49, the quorum should be prescribed by regulation and should not be at the discretion of the Minister.

Clause 69:
1. A person is innocent until proven guilty and not vice versa and the clause should be amended accordingly.