Thorough Interrogation on Annual Reports presented by Sports & Recreation South Africa, South African Sports Commission & THETHA

Sports, Arts and Culture

08 November 2005
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Meeting Summary

A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.

Meeting report


8 November 2005

Chairperson: Mr BM Komphela (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Sport and Recreation South Africa Annual Report 2004-2005 [available at]
South African Sports Commission Annual Report 2005
THETA Annual Report 2004-2005 [available at]
Presentation on THETA Annual Report 2004-2005
Presentation on Sport and Recreation South Africa Annual Report 2004-2005
Training Matters
[please email for the documents]


The Tourism and Hospitality Education and Training Authority, SA Sports Commission and Sports and Recreation SA presented their annual reports for 2004-2005 to the Committee.

Members asked questions regarding the skills shortages being experienced, the payment of skills development levies, the geographic base of learnerships; the disposal of Sports Commission assets; the status of the Hall of Fame project being piloted by Naas Botha; the Department’s funding, the turnover of staff, the awarding of tenders, the human resources state of the Department, the participation targets at mass events, the distribution of Lotto funding, the performance of the SA squads at the Olympics and Paralympics, payments made by the Department, the prioritisation of the different sports codes and pending legislation.


The Chairperson welcomed the Tourism and Hospitality Education and Training Authority (THETHA) delegation. This organisation is the Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA) responsible to the sports community. He said that justice had not been done to the report of the Department of Sports and Recreation (SRSA), and that they had therefore been invited to meet the Portfolio Committee (PC) again. Some corporate collaboration was necessary. Joint committee meetings should be held to address common interests. Members of the now defunct South African Sports Commission (SASC) were also present, and matters affecting them would be discussed.

Mr M Tsotetsi was the leader of the THETHA delegation, and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the organisation. He introduced the members of his delegation, who were the Chairman of the Board, Mr T Mahlangu, Skills Development Manager Mr W Cuene, and Skills Development Advisors Mr A Cyster and Mr L Jacobs.

Mr G Fredericks, the Chief Director, led the SRSA delegation, and introduced Ms E Cloete, Chief Financial Officer (CFO) and Ms N Kotela, Acting Program Manager. Ms K Mkhonda, another Acting Program Manager, arrived during the course of the meeting. SRSA Director General, Prof D Hendricks was attending a meeting in Namibia.

Mr D Moyo was the leader of the delegation from the SASC. He held the position of CEO. He was accompanied by his CFO, Mr M Mahala. Although this organisation had been disbanded, a report had been submitted to cover their activities in 2005. The CEO was busy with Soccer World Cup 2010 role players and was unable to attend.

THETHA presentation
Mr Tsotetsi gave his presentation on the Annual Report of THETHA. He highlighted some aspects of the presentation. He said that not much activity had happened regarding sports training. Qualifications needed to be renewed, as these were on a three-year life span. He said that Skills Development Advisors were in place in the regions, but there was no physical infrastructure in the regions due to financial constraints. The performance of THETHA was discussed in the Annual Report, a summary of which had been tabled on 1 August.

He said that SETAs reported to the Department of Labour in terms of the Skills Development Act. All SETAs drew their activities from this Act. A strategic plan was in place. There was an indicator that people needed development up to National Qualifying Framework (NQF) level 1.

He drew attention to Indicator 1.3. THETHA had been tasked to go out to companies. It was unfortunate that sports companies did not seem keen to get involved. An improvement in this situation was expected during 2006, and government agencies would be included. In terms of Indicator 2.3, 28 learnerships had been put forward of which 24 were active. The mechanism for learner placements was not in place. A tracking system needed to be implemented.

He admitted that it was a regrettable situation that there was a qualification in the report of the Auditor General (AG). Irregular expenditure had occurred in that THETHA was not allowed to exceed an expenditure of more than ten per cent of its income on administration. The contribution of the SMME sector had been insignificant. THETHA needed to institute measures to cut spending. Government departments had not come to the party. The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism (DEAT) had not contributed to the skills levy for five years, but had paid during 2005. Also not contributing were 27 Departments and provincial governments. Their contributions would help to alleviate THETHA’s financial problems. SMMEs with a payroll of less than R 500 000 were no longer obliged to pay levies. Negotiations with the Treasury had been undertaken to offset their losses. The AG could not see the discretionary grants made to employers. Mr Tsotetsi explained that the available funds were deposited into a metaphoric "big pot" which was accessible to many institutions. In the last financial year (FY), institutions needed to be running Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) or HIV/AIDS programs to qualify for the grant.

A Sports Facilities Management program had been set up under the guidance of the University of South Africa (UNISA), University of Pretoria (UP) and the company Price, Waterhouse and Coopers (PWC). THETHA had reviewed all the registered sports qualifications. At the previous meeting a framework had been presented, which still needed to be filled in.

Mr Tsotetsi than outlined the challenges facing THETHA and the industry. It was a dilemma for learners to gain experience. It was often left to the learner to sort himself out in this regard. He felt that THETHA should negotiate with the institutions providing practical experience. THETHA would dictate a policy whereby experience would be added onto the curriculum. The National Skills Fund (NSF) would need to assist. Upgrading of qualifications was continuing at a high level. Meetings had been held with Mr Danny Jordaan (World Cup 2010 committee), SA Football Association (SAFA) and SRSA to identify the key and critical skills needed in order to prepare the relevant qualifications.

The Chairperson found the report exciting. He observed a practice of learning from other learners. He felt it was correct for THETHA to intervene in this issue. However, SETAs had not been created in order to organise experience. Learnership should happen at the workplace, but it seemed that theoretical and practical training were not moving together. THETHA’s interventions here were correct, and other Departments should take note.

Mr CT Frolick (ANC) had a general comment regarding annual reports. The demands of the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA) were that specific outcomes from government funding needed to be reported. The Standing Committee on Public Accounts (SCOPA) would be in a better position to probe irregularities in this regard. The youth and young leaders had to receive the required skills. More detail was needed on specific details regarding sports issues in the THETHA report. He noted that many other major events would be hosted in South Africa before the 2010 World Cup, and the country was running out of skilled people. There was especially a shortage of black persons in the management of current mega events. More information was needed regarding the Sports Management Program and the fitness training program. He wondered why these issues were only receiving attention now.

Mr TD Lee (DA) said that the PC had often referred to local SETAs during their visits through the country. There was an outcry for skills development, especially in the Eastern Cape. Volleyball in that region was a good example. He asked what THETHA’s contribution to sport was. He also asked for the exact percentage of the administrative overspend. He wondered if trying to cater for sport was a real challenge, and what THETHA’s contribution to the efforts surrounding 2010 would be.

Mr Frolick asked about the needs for training for sport. >From the SASC report it was apparent that a person from the SASC was also on the THETHA Board. Certain specific needs were to be communicated.

Mr SJ Masango (DA) questioned the target indicators. Some big achievements had been recorded. In several cases targets had been achieved by more than 100%. He asked if the targets were not too low. He raised the possibility that targets were set artificially low to enhance the award of performance bonuses. He remarked that the employment growth was too big, and queried the fees paid to individuals.

Mr DM Dikgacwi (ANC) noticed that six thousand learners had been trained, but many of these had not been placed in employment. He asked if any mechanism existed to facilitate the placement process. He also asked what aspects of skills training were relevant to sport.

Mr D Dodovu (ANC) said that the investigation by the AG was sub judice. The administrative overspend was due to administrative problems. He asked what measures were in place to control this situation. He remarked that the National Skills Fund (NSF) had not been utilised properly. THETHA had not complied with the terms and conditions. He asked if donor funds had been used. He wanted to know what instruments could be used to control spending. He wondered what the mismatch was between objectives and achievements. He asked about the strategic plan, especially with regards to targets and inputs.

Mr Cuene replied on behalf of THETHA. He said there were two relevant training aspects. Firstly, regarding qualifications, five were being generated. Diploma and certificate qualifications at level five were being prepared for the fitness qualification. THETHA was also developing a Level Five coaching science diploma and certificate. At Level Four sports fitness and leadership qualifications were being developed. They were busy with the development of two qualifications regarding management. All was explained in the Training Matters booklet.

The second aspect was a structural one. The chamber committee was constituency-based. It identified interventions and provided management in all facets as well as Integrated Technology. There was a link back to strategic imperatives. The Chamber had allocated some R5 million to address THETHA projects which were now rolling out.

Mr Cuene discussed some specific projects. The Managerial Development Program was designed to address scarce skills. Some 116 people were involved with this throughout the country but centred in the Western Cape, Gauteng and Durban. The program was facilitated by UNISA and PWC. With 2010 as a backdrop, the Continuing Education Centre at UP had designed a Sport Facilities Management course. Provision was being made for 80 learners, and training would be available in Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, the Western Cape and the Free State. A common service would be given to all of these centres. The Fitness Learnership was a qualification which was beginning to find expression. Sixty individuals were involved with training at an approximate cost of R11 500 per person. They had been placed during the program, and to this end Virgin Active and Planet Fitness were partners. More than 60 % of the learners were unemployed, but Virgin Active in particular had guaranteed employment.

He said that it was a misnomer to assume that there was no training for sports. Various private companies were involved as well as the SASC and THETHA. Specific sports were involved, as in the team management and sports leader programs. Accredited training was provided for, but as yet had not been happening. The sports industry was part and parcel of training. Nine or ten federations were changing their own qualifications. The SASC and federations had to provide capacity, quality management and the training program. The federations would also provide the human resource base.

The skills program committee was responsible for the approval of skills programs. It had approved the sports fitness learnership and coaching science programs. The latter was a legacy project passed from SASC to the National Sports Council and Olympic Committee (NASCOC). Prior learning would be recognised. Mr Cuene was confident that the numbers of learners would swell.

Mr Tsotetsi was confident that THETHA was making an impact on the industry. By playing open cards it would improve its visibility. The amount of the administrative overspend was 9.3%. The AG had considered income generated from projects in the past, but not in the year under review. This decision had been advised at a late stage and it was not possible for THETHA to amend its report to reflect this change.

He agreed that moving towards 2010 was a challenge. He was happy that the participants were all ready to deal with the interaction with bodies regarding their skills needs. Meetings had been arranged with various SETAs, such as those concerned with Security and Transport. THETHA would also interact with the DEAT and SRSA. He said there were enough qualifications to ensure that all the skills would be in place. Providers would have to impart skills; otherwise there would be no results.

Mr Tsotetsi said that THETHA had gone through a painful exercise. Some bodies had ignored the changes in South Africa, of which SAFA was an example. They were not aware of how THETHA could help. A fast-tracking process was being followed. Much was happening at the various Academies of Sport and Centres of Excellence. However, the statistics were not being picked up. THETHA would embark on a roadshow to visit these institutions.

He said that 6919 learners had gone through THETHA programs, but only 78 had been placed in employment. His organisation had not anticipated the need to track the learners. A mechanism was needed for this. It should be a condition of training that learners be placed on completion of training. The onus should fall on the employer who had provided the training facility. He admitted that it was sometimes hard to track individuals. Their systems should be able to capture more details of the learners so that better contact details could be maintained. Some persons also stayed in learnerships longer than necessary. Such individuals should receive counseling so that that they could achieve a qualification and then move on.

In response to the question on members’ fees, Mr Tsotetsi said that these were attendance fees for non-salaried members of THETHA.

The National Skills Development Summit (NSDS) targets had set out what needed to be achieved. These numbers had been given to THETHA, and the targets appeared in the report. He explained why they might be seen as too low. Towards the end of 2004, companies had begun to understand what the requirements were and reported adequately. As regards the donor funding, money given by the Spanish government had been accounted for. A report had been produced on that project. Spending needed to correspond with the achievement. As regards the SA Tourism Institute’s INTAC project, a preliminary report had been compiled at the end of March. The actual figures would be included in THETHA’s report for 2005-06. Full reports on this project had been given to the NSF and Spanish government in September 2005.

Regarding the INTAC project, no training had happened at Madikwe in the Eastern Cape or in certain other areas. This had not happened in the manner expected. Challenges had arisen in respect of the providers and outstanding work. Sometimes providers were replaced. Many lessons had been learned. SCOPA would investigate any irregularities. The public had a right to complain. In the interests of transparency, everything had been included in the report.

Mr Lee said that the relationship with SAFA had been explained. The staging of 2010 was still the biggest challenge, and justified a detailed project with related budget. THETHA’s intentions for 2010 and the related costs were needed.

The Chairperson said that the report was a big improvement on the previous one submitted. This would direct the PC at the delivery point. He asked whether the sub judice rule regarding the AG’s qualification was applicable. Information was needed on the finalisation of matters which were impacting on the judicial process. He enquired about the shrinkage of the industry in the SMME sphere, and how this loss would be compensated. He noted the loss of 6 000 jobs, and asked what had been done to avoid this.

The Chairperson asked if SRSA was paying its levies, and if the provinces were also doing so. The Deputy President had said that some government departments were often culprits in not paying their dues. He asked what the role of PWC was in the Sports Facilities Management program. He was sure that SRSA could have designed a relevant package. He agreed on the need to plan for 2010, and hoped that a legacy of skills would result.

The Chairperson asked about the Level Five certificate, and what it enabled the learner to do. He also asked about the role of SRSA and the fitness chamber, and about the relationship between THETHA and the Department of Education (DoE). The PC had been to all the academies and he was shocked that THETHA did not know what they did. He asked if the accreditation was real.

The Chairperson studied the geographical distribution of the learnerships. He noted that none had occurred in the Free State, as well as some other regions. Some issues raised by the AG were still overlapping. He asked when the discretionary funds would be paid. As much of the work done was on a voluntary basis, some of these volunteers might not renew their services if payment was late. SCOPA had noted that there had been recurring problems with THETHA’s report for three years. The PC had to assist SCOPA. Finally, he asked about Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) issues. No information had been provided. He asked if fraudulent claims were being submitted, and how claims were verified.

Mr Tsotetsi said that 2010 was a burning issue. It was being taken very seriously by THETHA, and a meeting was planned with SRSA. THETHA was conceptualising various projects. Some of these involved the young players who would be contending for places in the SA team in 2010, and they needed to be looked after in terms of education, physical training and life skills. Money was needed for this. The Department of Labour controlled the NSF. An amount of between two and three billion Rand was available. Access guidelines were needed, and then a project could be submitted. THETHA would then report to SRSA. THETHA will provide information once it was complete and endorsed. The Board would mandate an approach to the fund.

In response to the question of the sub judice matter, Mr Tsotetsi said that transparency was needed and that there was a right to information. The AG had received a complaint from the Department of Labour. This stemmed from a single unhappy tenderer, in that THETHA had allegedly appointed a BEE company without the ability to train learners. The investigation was still not complete, and it should be read in conjunction with the annual report. The complainant, Hospitality Professionals, had been in lengthy discussions with THETHA, from which the parties agreed on the type of court order. While it was incorrect for Hospitality Professionals to be excluded from the tender process, it was not incorrect to include the BEE company. Hospitality Professionals claimed a loss in profit of some R13 million, and had since decided to issue a summons to reclaim this. THETHA would go to court to defend this claim. The report for 2005-2006 would include what had happened on this issue. It would explain who was suing whom, and would list the AG’s findings.

Mt Tsotetsi said that an R11 million loss had been suffered as a result of a change in the policy on SMME’s. The payroll threshold at which companies would be expected to pay the levy had increased from R250 000 to R500 000. The loss of 6000 contributors consisted of companies which no longer had to pay levies rather than individuals who had lost their jobs. The Department of Labour’s attention had been drawn to this. It seemed that Treasury was keen to compensate the various SETAs for their losses in income, but not in the current FY. He hoped that a statement would be made in the March 2006 budget speech.

Mr Tsotetsi said PWC was an auditing firm. With UNISA, they had responded to the tender for the Sports Facilities Management program. PWC was responsible for the project management component and UNISA for the facilitation process. The entities had combined to offer the necessary expertise at a fair price. He assured the PC that SRSA did pay their levy. He said that the provincial governments were the challenge and were being pressurised to pay. A meeting had been held with DoE resulting in a roadshow which attempted to make the NQF a reality. This would be outcomes-based rather than knowledge-based.

The skewed geographical distribution of learnerships was due to a lack of accreditable providers. Learnership certificates only tended to be offered in certain provinces. The full-length learnership course comprised some 120 credits, although short courses were also available. There had been a flood of learnerships in KZN.

The payment of discretionary grants was on track, said Mr Tsotetsi. He admitted that the grants paid out between 2000 and 2003 had been done only once the coffers had been filled. The approach had changed during 2005, in that grants had been paid up front to providers offering ABET or AIDS programs. The SCOPA investigation was not there yet, and was another issue. THETHA was busy with serious restructuring in their salary and rental arrangements. Expenses were being monitored on a monthly basis. Grants were only paid three months later. Payments of levies into THETHA’s coffers were unpredictable, as late or non-payment of levies only became apparent later. Historical data was used to predict income. The tourism BEE scorecard was in existence, but he was not sure if sport had one. A meeting with SRSA was being planned to address this.

Mr Cuene gave a quick indication on the monetary allocations to the various sectors served by THETHA. The hospitality and gaming sectors had an allocation of R38 million, the tourism sector R11 million and the sport sector R5 million. He said that THETHA was finalising regulations regarding fitness. It was dealing with the constitution for the fitness board. R50 000 had been spent on this so far. An amount of R5 million had been committed for future sports projects, and another R5 million for training of coaches.

Mr Chuene said that 2010 should leave a national human resources legacy, and that recognition of prior learning would be important in providing skills. He explained that the NQF provided eight levels of qualification. THETHA operated on Levels One to Five. The Level Five qualification was equivalent to grade 9 or Technikon/University first year level. In most sports codes there were four levels of coaching grades. He mentioned that soccer would be sending several coaches to an international course in Brazil. A system of unistandards was in place. He said that the chamber was a strategic organ. It was sector based and was sensitive to the needs of SETAs. He was not sure how deeply the chamber members consulted and if the information cascaded down to lower levels. They normally met four times a year.

He said that there were nine academies in the country. The discretionary grants would be paid out by the second week in December. Regarding the integrity of information, there was a drive to pinpoint and scrutinise claims. Grant applications were validated. Where there was doubt, site visits were carried out to investigate how much of the process was IT-based.

Mr Mahlangu said that the THETHA Board had looked at the AG’s report. They had also looked at policies to ensure good governance. The supply chain would be discussed at the Board meeting on 26 November.

The Chairperson said that THETHA had some homework to do on governance matters. A series of Memorandums of Understanding had been issued. The PC needed to know THETHA’s intentions. The PC had a different understanding of the issue with DoE. All forms of physical training would fall under the control of DoE while all control of sport would fall under SRSA. Bursary schemes should be available for study country-wide as THETHA was a national entity. Figures were needed as government policy emphasised a rural bias. He ended with a question on how entitlement was decided, as new providers must also be given a chance to become involved.

The Chairperson then turned to the representatives of the SASC. He said that the Act establishing this body had been repealed some two or three months previously. However, the annual report still had to be presented.

SA Sports Commission presentation
Mr Moyo said that projects had been conducted by a skeleton staff together with the officials from the National Olympic Committee of SA (NOCSA), the Commonwealth Games and Disabled Sport SA. There was an agreement that no new staff would be taken pending SASC’s dissolution. Of all the programs and mandated projects running under the SASC, 80% were passed on to the SA Sports Council and Olympic Committee (SASCOC) and 20% to SRSA. All staff members were absorbed into SRSA.

He discussed some of the flagship projects. In the period under review, the main one had been the Zone VI games. This was a project of the Supreme Council for Sport in Africa, and concentrated on youth sports development. These were to have been in Malawi, but had been shifted first to Lesotho and ultimately to Mozambique. Five different codes were featured. SASC resources had been used to assist the Mozambican authorities. The games were a major achievement in bringing the youth together. The next games were scheduled to be held in Namibia. One of the benefits for South Africa was that the new core of the Banyana Banyana women’s soccer team had emerged from these games, and were currently based at the High Performance (HP) centre at UP. Mr Moyo hoped that the games would prove to be a building block for both athletes and officials towards the eventual hosting of the Olympic Games.

Other services provided by SASC included the HP program, which supported the Paralympic squad and the various Olympic federations. SASCOC inherited the HP program in its entirety. Another highlight had been the indigenous games. It had been necessary for SASC to develop rules and equipment to stage these games.

Facilities were centred at the high centres of learning. Nothing was being done in rural areas or at formerly disadvantaged institutes. Satellite facilities had been created, such as the provincial academies for sport program. These were still in their infancy, but some issues regarding managerial relations and ownership were still unclear. Funds for these were being provided by the respective MECs, and accountability was an issue.

Mr Moyo said there had been positive movement, and a good response had been received from the relevant SETA. Progress needed to be linked to international standards. The Client Service Department had dealt with several disputes, which had been handed over to ministerial committees. About half of these had been dealt with.

Another active agency was the Colours Board. A major issue with them was the continued use of the Springbok emblem by Rugby. The combination of the Springbok and the Protea had been approved as a temporary measure and was due for review. SAFA was also refusing to recognise the King Protea. Kit was being merchandised with unofficial symbols. Other federations will want to use their own symbols if this situation is allowed to continue. The future of the Colours Board was still to be decided by the Minister. It would either pass to SASCOC or remain as an independent authority.

Mr Moyo said that the SA Games had been a successful project. Since their inception, the games have produced talented athletes and administrators. Clear targets had been set for the youth, and the games had helped to provide exposure for the youth. Provinces had taken pride in their teams. That the PC had not been invited to attend was a protocol failure.

The Chairperson interjected that the PC did not want an invitation, but would make inspections at events at its own discretion.

Mr Moyo continued that protocols had been passed on to SASCOC, but some aspects had been overlooked. The SA Games project had value for South Africa. SASC had a role in monitoring the bidding for major events and was responsible for the evaluation and assessment of bids. The status of events would have to add value to the image of the country. The strategy for the following twenty years involved SRSA, the PC and oversight. Major events planned included the African Military Games for 2010 and the World Gay Games. The Johannesburg municipality had bid for the latter. The Gay Games had proved to be very popular, embracing 22 sports codes.

The Sports Museum and Hall of Fame would finally be implemented. This was one of the projects transferred to SASCOC, and was an initiative of the late Minister Steve Tshwete. Sponsors were skeptical regarding the Museum. This would be married to the Hall of Fame as a living museum. Mr Moyo said that the Information and Research Unit had been handed over to SRSA. The sports awards would be held on 25 November. Issues of the technical move by employees were still to be finalised. There was low morale amongst the staff and some had resigned while the issue of the move to SRSA was being resolved. There was a lack of capacity to deal with staff issues.

Mr Matlala went through the financial overview contained in the report. There was lower income compared to 2004, but this was because special funds had been made available for the All African Games. It had been a clean report, although there was an emphasis of matter relating to the closure process.

Mr A Mlangeni (ANC) asked why staff had not yet been redeployed.

Mr Dodovu commended SASC on the state of its finances. He emphasised that the SA Rugby Union (SARU) and especially SAFA were not using the King Protea as their symbol. He said that the SA Games indicated the proliferation of the games to local government levels, and that they were part of the mass participation campaign. He asked if there was a moral implication to the Gay games, and if any responses were planned should there be protests. He said that attempts to preserve sporting heritage were commendable. It was necessary to locate people in the rural areas who had made contributions to sport.

Mr BW Dhlamini (IFP) addressed the mismatch between the staff and the functional movements. He was concerned over a potential loss of resources.

Mr Moyo said that there had been some incompetency in the integration of staff. Officials from the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA) had overseen the process, and SASC had no say over them. There were billed as integration specialists, but were not the experts promised. He had written to the Minister in this regard. An "us and them" situation had arisen and there had been a conflict of interests. Interventions would be made later by the Unions. There were still no agreements between the Unions and SRSA. Staff members experienced tension over their future, and they were a demoralised group. He knew of no permanent appointments. A temporary structure had been approved in March. Job assessment checking and assessments and requirements were being done. This was an unplanned and unmanaged process. The lesson was that competent personnel should handle such issues.

Mr Moyo then spoke about the sustainability of projects transferred to SASCOC. The latter body had taken those who were busy with these projects, and were within budget.

The issue with SAFA was very sensitive, and they had displayed an arrogant attitude. They claimed to have long term contracts in place regarding their playing kit. The contract had ended in September. SAFA was still using their own badge, but said they might incorporate the Protea symbol somewhere on their kit. There was a historical connotation to the use of the Springbok by SARU. There was a leadership problem there, Mr Moyo said, which had resulted in inconsistent decisions. There was also an issue of long-term kit manufacture contracts, but he suspected this was an excuse to avoid the issue.

He said that the Hall of Fame needed to cover both the pre and post liberation periods, and those persons not honoured at the time. Research would be done on this.

Mr Fredericks said that the transition had not been easy. The change over had stalled, and a lack of trust had resulted on either side. For this reason the Minister had brought in independent persons. Negotiations were underway with the unions, but there was still not full agreement. Some of the SASC staff was on higher salary scales than SRSA members, but this could be handled. A problem lay with different approaches to housing and travel allowances between the two bodies. Morale was also low at SRSA, and all staff were temporary. A six-month changeover period would take place, and a meeting on this topic would be held on 11 November. Both sides were having a tough time.

The Chairperson said that the PC had not been briefed on the formal processes, but assumed they had been done in good faith. The issues with the United South African School Sports Association (USASSA) had been handled in a way acceptable to the PC, and they should be able to deal with the issue. He would interact with Deputy Minister Oosthuizen. No one should lose his job deliberately.

He said that thorough information was needed on the history of the dispute over the Springbok emblem. He said that the PC would not accept an invitation for the Sports Awards if these were organised by SASCOC, but they would respond to an invitation from SRSA. He asked how human capital would be retained. He commented on the 80/20/100% splits of personnel and functionality, and wanted to understand the wisdom of that decision. He asked where SASCOC got their money from, as they had submitted a nil budget at their last appearance at the PC. He asked about SASC’s cash flow since its closure. He asked what assets SASC had, and what had happened with them. He asked where the Hall of Fame would be situated. Mr Naas Botha and partners had collected a lot of money towards this project, and land had been given by the Knysna municipality. He asked if this was a wholly private venture or a public/private partnership.

Mr Moyo replied that in terms of the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA) regulations regarding statutory entities, all assets used by these bodies had to be disposed of in terms of Treasury rules. SASC had only handed over its functions. Assets were still being held by SASC. Its books were being audited and a decision on the disposal of their assets would be made when this audit was complete. Cash, intellectual property and share assets were still being held in trust.

SASC was a state entity, unlike SASCOC. Therefore the Minister was responsible for all SASC employees, and they should be ensured of state employment. It had been agreed that SASCOC would take over the ownership of the King Protea emblem, and would therefore be the new custodians. The certificate of registration would still remain with SASC, and would be handed over on instruction from the Treasury.

He said that the Sports Awards were an initiative of the former National Sports Council, and had originally been known as the Protea awards. The SA Broadcasting Corporation (SABC) and Bonnitas were sponsors, but the awards now belonged to SRSA. All federations were affiliated to SASCOC, but SRSA remained the custodian of sport.

Mr Moyo added that the Hall of Fame existed in concept only. A document had been created detailing the requirements. Mr Botha’s project was entirely private. He had made a submission to SASC but his offer had been dismissed, and a statement had been issued at the time. The Hall of Fame was a national initiative. He said that Mr Botha and his partners were opportunists. Knysna was the wrong location for a site which would be worthy of national access.

Mr Matlala referred the PC to the balance sheet. An audit had been done on SASC’s activities in the previous four months since the end of the FY. Its assets would be independently valued, and would be transferred to SRSA thereafter.

SRSA Annual Report discussion

The Chairperson said that SRSA was in charge of sport in the country. He said that the PC should get a program from SRSA from which it could plan and conduct visits. He then turned to the Annual Report submitted by SRSA at a previous meeting. He noticed that the figures of persons benefiting from SRSA grants did not include women.

Mr Fredericks replied that the totals were combined for men and women. SRSA did have these figures, and should perhaps have included the breakdown in the report.

The Chairperson also commented on some of the slides in the presentation that had been made, and said some more detail should have been included. He observed that the entry in the participation table included the USASSA summer games.

Mr Fredericks replied that this entry should have been deleted, as these games had not taken place. He said that the numbers of participants in the various codes had been received from the federations in good faith. However, research had been commissioned on 32 federations to verify their claims. In some sports, up to 700 000 more participants were claimed than the research indicated.

The Chairperson said he found the heading regarding the celebration of ten years of freedom to be misleading.

Mr Fredericks replied that each federation had been asked to stage some event in celebration of the ten years of democracy. Not a single event had been staged.

The Chairperson remarked that the event in Oudtshoorn had been poorly publicised.

Mr Fredericks replied that a few events had been staged in Oudtshoorn. He admitted that one of these had been held away from the community, and had enjoyed poor support. In the other event there had been good engagement by the Western Cape government.

The Chairperson mentioned a new facility at Matjiesfontein. He asked about the list of 109 facilities under construction, and how the distribution of these projects was determined.

Mr Fredericks replied that funding was allocated according to the guidelines of the poverty fund. The number of projects was not allied to the spending, as some of these projects were minor upgrades while others were completely new facilities. The monetary value assigned to each project was thus different.

The Chairperson expressed concern over the high turnover of contracted staff.

Mr Fredericks replied that several unemployed young people had been trained. They tended to leave SRSA’s employ as soon as their training was complete. Positions had also not been filled because of the impending merger with SASC. At one stage there had been only 29 permanent staff compared to eleven contracted members.

The Chairperson asked on what basis government work was awarded. He noticed that much of the work was given to UP and also to the University of Stellenbosch (US). He asked if these awards were made in terms of the lines of poverty or on capability. He also asked if there were not other institutions which could render the same services.

Mr Fredericks replied that an open tender process had been followed. No historically disadvantaged institution had submitted a tender. With the preparation of the Paralympic squad for Athens, only the US could deal with the disabled athletes. A fair evaluation process had been followed, but in future all factors would be examined.

Mr Mlangeni speculated that other institutes could not have handled these activities anyway. Surely work could not be given out if those institutes could not meet the required standards?

The Chairperson asked for information on SRSA’s Human Resources status.

Mr Fredericks replied that the position was better than previously. SRSA were under a moratorium not to fill positions from director level up. At present the three directors positions were filled, one of these on a temporary basis. The incumbents were two black women and one white man. The Chief Director positions were acting ones, and included two black males and one white female. The Director General was a black male. Full figures would be forwarded by email the next day. He observed that men were an endangered species at SRSA, as about half the staff was women.

The Chairperson asked what the position was with disabled persons, and if posts were being advertised. If they were advertised, he wished to know how this was done. It was possible to source disabled persons.

Mr Fredericks replied that there were two disabled persons employed before the merger, which constituted 3.7%. No disable persons had joined from SASC, which resulted in the percentage dropping to 1.7%. He said it was possible to recruit more persons through contacts with the disabled community.

Mr Mlangeni suggested that SRSA should go to the various disabled training institutes to source disabled persons to fill posts.

The Chairperson said that women and disabled persons must be included. The target was to have 50% female staff. SRSA’s report for 2005-2006 should reflect this movement.

Mr Masango found it curious that a target of 40 medals at the Olympics and Paralympics had exactly been reached. He wondered where the athletes came from. He asked if all programs were transferring funds to local projects. He queried the low mass participation targets, and asked about the weekly targets.

Mr Dhlamini asked who decided where the money from the Lotto was going. He felt that the decision makers in this context were not sports people, and made incorrect decisions. He asked that there be discussions regarding having more sports people in the distribution process.

Mr Fredericks said that the fact that 40 Olympic/Paralympic medals had been won was fortunate. An estimate had been made based on previous experience and the rankings of the athletes.

Mr Dodovu agreed that the South African team had performed well at the Paralympics but not so well at the Olympics.

Mr Fredericks disagreed. He said that South Africa had not performed too badly at the Olympics. Only 70 of the 230 participating countries had won any medals. Of these, South Africa was ranked 43rd in total and 34th in terms of gold medals, and this was a good result for a developing country. The structure of sport had been streamlined in reaction to the experiences at Sydney in 2000. Sports had been prioritised and national academies established. Money for these activities had only been made available during 2004. In contrast, a country like Cuba had already identified athletes for the 2012 Olympics while South Africa was still trying to sort out financial and long term planning issues.

Mr Dodovu said that a full-blown discussion was needed. Swimming had been the top performing code, but the other codes had been less successful. Projections should be done by each code. South Africa was not doing well compared to other countries with similar circumstances. The Paralympians had performed well despite having less intensive preparation. Countries like Ethiopia and Cuba had had a smaller focus in terms of codes.

Ms Cloete detailed how payments were made. Program 1 payments were made to SETAs. This was done on a compensation bill, and no monitoring was done. Program 2 payments were made to national federations recognised by SRSA according to their respective business plans. Quarterly reports had to be submitted, and events were monitored. Organisers of mass participation events held monthly meetings and submitted regular reports. Program 3 payments were transfers to municipalities. SRSA was assisted in monitoring their activities by provincial authorities.

Ms Mkhonda agreed that weekly targets had been underestimated. SRSA had not been sure if the provinces would embrace the mass participation program, and therefore low targets had been set. It had been planned that 50 hubs would be operating with 50 persons attending each hub and four hubs per province. However, the figure of 50 hubs had grown to 130. The targets had been exceeded threefold and more. The responsibility of implementing the mass participation project would now pass to provincial level.

Mr Fredericks said that the Lotto had a separate distribution agency for sport, and there were more sportspeople represented there. The question of Lotto funding for sports was being addressed by the Minister, who had tried to arrange to have a meeting with the Lotto Board. A concerted and co-ordinated funding scheme was needed. A separate sports lottery had been mooted, and it seemed that this had become a reality. It was not clear who the beneficiary of this new competition would be.

The Chairperson said the question of SASCOC funding had still not been answered. He asked what the priority for the codes were, having seen scholars playing golf. He said that drum majorettes were not necessarily a sporting code but were nevertheless a form of exercise and were thus also an important activity.

Mr Fredericks listed the Category 1 and 2 sports. These were:
Category 1: Athletics, Boxing, Cricket, Football, Golf, Netball, Rugby and Swimming
Category 2: Baseball, Basketball, Bowls, Gymnastics, Handball, Hockey, Karate and Table Tennis

A full briefing would be needed to explain the rating within each of these categories. The placement of the codes indicated the importance of each code to the country at a national level. For schools, Boxing and Golf were deleted from the categories and replaced by Chess, Drum Majorettes, Tennis, Indigenous Sports and Softball.

Mr E Mtshali (ANC) asked if Golf was only played at Model C schools.

Mr Fredericks reminded him that Golf was not a priority code at school level.

Mr Mlangeni said that consideration should be given to other sports when housing estates were created.

The Chairperson observed that sportsgrounds were included with new housing developments. The Minister of Housing was conscious of this requirement. He asked if there was any urgent legislation on the table.

Mr Fredericks replied that three pieces of legislation were being prepared. The first related to the 2010 World Cup, and involved consultations between the various role players. This would be submitted to Cabinet in February 2006. The second was designed to give the Minister greater powers of intervention, and should also be ready to go to Cabinet in February 2006. The third was the Safety at Sports Stadiums Bill. This would also be presented in 2006, but there were still issues of costing and policing which needed to be defined. He warned the PC that these bills would consume much of their time.

The Chairperson asked if SRSA was experiencing any other difficulties.

Mr Fredericks replied that SRSA was spread between two buildings, namely their original building and the SASC offices in Centurion. Neither building could accommodate the entire department. A lease agreement had been signed on new premises, but it now seemed that occupation would only be possible by April 2006. Additional funding had not been given for this purpose by either Treasury or the Department of Public Works. Permanent posts were still an issue, and agreement was needed with the unions. Job relations and skills audits were still in progress. SRSA could not advertise outside the Public Service, and of the 187 posts, 70 were still vacant.

The Chairperson noted that there had been a turbulent relationship history with SRSA. Additional personnel would help when they were in place. The opinion of the AG had been good, and he praised the SRSA staff for their good work. Another meeting would be needed to discuss the next round of budgeting.

Mr Fredericks thanked the PC for their guidance. Given the situation four years previously, the PC must take a lot of credit for SRSA getting its house into order.

The meeting was adjourned.


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