Departments of Education and Labour Expenditure and Programmes: briefings

Meeting report

IMROVEMENT OF THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND STATUS OF CHILDREN, YOUTH AND DISABLED PERSONS JOINT MONITORING COMMITTEE
14 October 2005
DEPARTMENTS OF EDUCATION AND LABOUR EXPENDITURE AND PROGRAMMES: BRIEFINGS

Chairperson: Ms Newhoudt-Druchen (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Department of Labour PowerPoint presentation
Department of Education PowerPoint presentation

SUMMARY
The Departments of Education and Labour presented the Committee with reports of their expenditure over the past year, as well as their expected expenditure for 2005/06. They briefed the Committee on their achievements and the challenges they still faced. The Chairperson made clear that the Committee would hold them accountable, and developments within departments would be closely monitored. Members were particularly concerned about whether the Department of Education would be able to provide for the transport needs of disabled school children They also urged that Department to do more with regard to creating opportunities for disabled youth to further their education.

MINUTES

Department of Education briefing
Ms Penny Vinjevold (Deputy Director General: Further Education and Training) and Ms Lucy Moyane (Chief Director: General Education and Training) delivered the presentation. Ms Vinjevold said that the Department catered to the tuition, schooling and nutrition of children, the development of the youth and ensured that disabled persons were included in all education.

Although the Department’s ‘Millennium Goal’ of universal primary enrolment has been achieved, much research still needed to be done to determine the causes of learner dropout after Grade 10. Most of the education budget had been spent on tuition. Provinces had been allocated a budget of R70 billion, with the greatest share going to the poorest provinces. The major challenges facing the Department were centred on improving the quality and dignity of primary and secondary schooling.

Ms Moyane assured the Committee that the Department was implementing the Integrated Disability Strategy in all its spheres. Provinces spent R1.9 billion on inclusive education. The Department was in the process of converting 30 special schools into full service schools that would function as research centres. Focus would be on improving the human resource capacity, improving inclusive learning programmes as well as on the screening, identification and assessment of learners at special schools.

Department of Labour briefing
The Department of Labour was in the process of establishing special programmes that would focus on youth, disability and women. Mr Ganga Tsengiwe (Department Chief Director: Director-General’s Office) said that at present, 3.1% of Department staff were disabled. This exceeded the 2% target that had to be achieved by March 2005. By March 2006, this figure should be at 6%. Three learnerships had been registered and implemented by the Department. R41.7 million had been earmarked for children, youth and disabled persons for 2005/2006. This figure would increase to R46.4 million by 2007/2008.

Mr Morotoba (Acting Department Deputy Director-General) said that in terms of the National Skills Development Strategy (NSDS), steps had been taken to improve employability and sustainable livelihoods (such as the Moses Kotane People Housing Project). New entrants had been assisted into employment via learnership and apprenticeship programmes. The National Research Foundation / National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NRF / NSFAS) had allocated R13 million to 441 students with disabilities. The NSDS aimed to accelerate broad-based employment equity via a broad spectrum of programmes and projects in 2005 - 2010.

Ms Anne-Marie van Zyl (Department Executive Manager: Employment Standards) then briefed the Committee on the Child Labour Action Programme (CLAP). The Basic Child Exploitation Act prohibited the employment of children younger than 15 years. Children aged 15-17 years could only perform duties appropriate for their age and development. CLAP aimed to, amongst others, strengthen enforcement, introduce new legislation and increase public awareness. The Department of Labour would work with a number of other departments and stakeholders to eradicate exploitative child labour practices. The Child Labour Implementation Committee would oversee all proceedings.

The NSDS embodied a firm commitment from the Department to create employment and reduce poverty among women, youth and people with disabilities. CLAP was its commitment to protect and improve the quality of life and children.

Discussion
Mr M Moss (ANC) urged the Department to be cognisant of the Disabled Persons of South Africa slogan, "Nothing about us without us". Disabled persons should be involved in decision-making, especially with regard to issues that impacted upon them. In addition, he noted that the drop-out rate for the last three years of high school was quite high, especially in rural areas. How many disabled youth had dropped out of school? How many dropped out because they were disabled?

Ms Vinjevold replied that although the Department knew how many youth dropped out of school, it was not aware of their reasons. The figure has not been broken down to indicate how many were disabled. Ms Moyane added that although the Department was not aware of how many disabled youth dropped out of school, it was aware of the number of disabled youth who did not have access to school facilities.

Mr M Andrew (ANC) said that he had become aware of a rumour that Grades 10-12 would be discontinued at Astra, a special needs school. The disabled youth at this school would then have to be accommodated at public schools that were not ‘disabled-friendly’. To what extent would the Department of Education be assisting in making these schools more accessible? If these classes were to be discontinued, many of the disabled youth would need transport that their parents might not be able to afford. The lack of transport could lead to more students dropping out. Although the National Disability Strategy supported full integration, society still needed to be better prepared to include and accommodate disabled persons.

He added that there were a number of issues that could provide a key to understanding the difficulties faced by disabled persons. How many disabled students left school and why? What was the nature of their disabilities? How many were attending ordinary public schools? What kind of support structures was in place for them?

Ms Vinjevold was surprised at the planned discontinuation of Grades 10-12 at Astra, especially considering that the Department of Education aimed to extend Grades 10-12 to all schools. The Department would follow up on the issue.

Ms Moyane added that 30 schools have been identified for conversion. Conversions would follow the recommendations of a study, which had been conducted to determine how schools could be made more accessible to disabled persons.

Mr Moss commented that although the Department had said that it was satisfied with its nutrition programmes, he had earlier that day become aware that at an Eastern Cape school, such a programme had run three days a week. How was the Deportment going to deal with the problem? Mr Andrew was curious about how many schools participated in the programme. Which provinces were they situated in?

Ms Vinjevold admitted that there were still some pockets of concern. The Eastern Cape was a province that needed to be monitored closely. The Department was aware of the problem and would address it. She urged the Committee to hold it accountable.

Mr Andrew reminded the Committee that in cities like Cape Town, there were many street children. Did the Department of Education have a programme in place to deal with the problem? Was it lending support to the various non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that were working towards alleviating the problem?

According the Ms Vinjevold the Department was working very closely with Non-governmental Organisations (NGOs) as well as with the Department of Social Welfare in the Western Cape. Cape Town had a large number of shelters that could accommodate street children. Ms Moyane added that a pilot project was underway that aimed to reduce exploitative child labour practices. The Department was working closely with NGOs to ensure its success.

The Chairperson assured the Department that the Committee would follow up on issues raised. Some parents of deaf children were very concerned that their children might be forced to leave school as soon as they turned 18, irrespective of whether they had completed their schooling. The Western Cape had a ‘Curriculum Listing’ of those organisations the disabled could call on. She had tried to get hold of the policy that stated that deaf children should leave school at the age of 18, but had received no response. The Department of Education was doing much with regards to Further Education and Training (FET) and Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET), yet it was doing very little to ensure that disabled youth had access to further education.

Ms Vinjevold advised the Chairperson to get in touch with Dr S Naicker (Department Chief Director of Planning) who was dedicated to drawing up policies covering children with disabilities. Currently there were over 10 000 youth with special needs over the age of 18 who were accommodated in schools.

The Chairperson responded that such Department officials had ignored her requests. The Committee was still awaiting the report on the audit done on special schools. When would this report be available?

Ms Moyane said that the findings of the audit had been presented in February 2005. Although there had been no discussions about making it a public document, it was being used widely. Ms Vinjevold assured the Committee that copies of the report would be made available.

Mr Moss asked what interventions could be made to make private colleges more accessible. Was the Department winning the war against ‘fly by night’ colleges that charged exorbitant fees?

Ms Vinjevold said that private FET colleges would be required to register. Many complaints had been received regarding the activities of private FET colleges. Many of these cases had been referred to lawyers. The Department aimed to have better regulation of these colleges by 2006/07.

Messrs Andrew, Moss and Nzimande (ANC) raised concerns regarding the transport needs of the disabled. Mr Moss said that transport was provided based on the number of students and the distance. Mr Andrew asked what kind of support was available to those parents who could not afford to transport their children themselves. Mr Nzimande requested clarity on whether the Department provided transport. To his knowledge, transport was provided only if the school was able to afford it. Transport was a very important issue since many pupils had to travel from rural areas to attend special schools that were mostly situated in cities.

Ms Vinjevold assured the Committee that the Department was looking at providing transport to more schools. Ms Moyane added that there were two programmes focussed on providing transport to poor as well as disabled pupils. The 135 schools that would benefit from these programmes had been identified in the audit. The Department wanted to assure Members that transport as well as boarding facilities would be available.

Mr Moss asked whether the Department offered additional support such as occupational therapy to disabled youth. At a recent information, communication and technology conference, he had met a young disabled man who was studying towards his Doctorate. This young man was fortunate that he’s parents had been in a position to get him all the support he needed. Disabled people also made valuable contributions. More should be done to explore all avenues that would assist them.

Ms Moyane admitted that the recruitment of non-teaching staff remained a challenge. This could be because government salaries were not competitive. Another contributing factor was that posts were being advertised as normal teaching posts in provincial circulars. Mr Andrew commented that it was strange that posts were advertised only in circulars. They should be advertised in the public media.

Mr Nzimande commented that South African ‘ParaOlympians’ were mainly white, with disabilities that occurred later in life. What was being done around school sports, particularly among the black disabled pupils in special schools?

Ms Moyane said that she had no information available at present. She would forward a written reply at a later stage.

The Chairperson noted that many South African teachers were unable to communicate in sign language, yet South African signing was accepted at schools. What was the official view regarding the status of sign language in schools? Mr Nzimande was curious about who determined which sign language culture would be adopted in schools. He had heard that in some schools in KwaZulu-Natal, children were being taught in Zulu, while others were being taught American Sign Language.

Ms Moyane said that the Pan South African Language Board (PANSALB) was in the process of standardising South African sign language. She was aware that in some schools in KwaZulu-Natal, American Sign Language was being taught. For now, schools needed to settle for signing in either English or Zulu. Some schools in the Free State had opted for using signing interpreters in the classroom.

Ms Moyane also asked who was responsible for monitoring the welfare of disabled children? Ms Vinjevold said that monitoring was done by the provincial Departments of Education. The National Department could request reports. Provinces could also appoint individuals to monitor special schools.

Mr Nzimande said that the Education Amendment Bill covered subsidies as well. Could special schools also get subsidies? Ms Moyane replied that field studies were underway to determine the norms and standards for the funding of special schools.

Mr Nzimande asked whether quality audits had been done on special schools. What was the level of transformation in the management of schools? Mr Moss requested a breakdown of the number of disabled persons employed by the Department.

Ms Moyane admitted that one of the Department’s greatest mistakes was that it employed very few disabled officials. At present there were only four disabled officials in the Chief Directorate. Transformation too remained a challenge. ‘Particular racial groups’ were still the driving force within the management and philosophy of the Department. Transformation needed to be expedited.

Mr Nzimande requested clarity on the provisions that were being made as far as Educare for special schools was concerned. Ms Moyane said that the Department took the responsibility to provide Educare for Grades 0 to R. This was a joint effort between the Departments of Education, Health and Social Development. The Department of Education would provide training and support. Interdepartmental task teams had already been appointed. All centres that offered Grade 12 had to be registered with the Department of Education. Others needed to register with the Department of Social Development.

The Chairperson mentioned the recent horrific bus accident in Cape Town in which a number of school children were killed. A local newspaper had recently reported that 3 out of 4 buses were not in a very good condition. What measures was the Department taking to ensure the safety of its buses? Many pupils were also in danger of falling victim to violent crimes such as rape on their way to and from school. What kind of interventions had the Department taken to ensure the safety of children?

Ms Vinjevold said that the Department had had a ‘terrible fright’ over the past year. The Department could however not take sole responsibility for the safety of children at school. Society as a whole needed to take responsibility for the safety of its children.

Mr Nzimande pointed out that many teachers had to ‘improvise’ when it came to teaching materials. May students had been taught, as he himself had been, on dated Braille readers. When he had been a member of the Portfolio Committee on Education, he has done everything he could to assist children with special needs so that they could progress to tertiary institutions.

Ms Vinjevold responded that the new curriculum was aimed at addressing some of the inequities of the past. At present, the Braille translation of texts for grades 11-12 was underway. Ms Moyane added that those schools that would be converted to ‘full-service schools’ would have access to some of the most expensive materials. They would function as resource centres for all schools in the vicinity. Although the Department could not provide services to all schools, a number of initiatives were in place to deal with the situation. Telkom has made donations to a number of schools for blind children. More needed to be done as the three Braille teaching facilities in the country could no longer cope with the demand.

Mr Moss felt that compensation was an ongoing struggle for the Department of Labour. His personal doctor had informed him that there were endless problems with people who had been injured while on duty and who had no choice but to approach the Compensation Commission. The injured were not getting the compensation they were entitled to, resulted in them spending more time in hospital waiting for wheelchairs, for example. This was very expensive. Mr Nzimande asked whether the Department offered vocational rehabilitation if an employee was injured at work.

Mr Tsengiwe said that there had been problems with the Compensation Commission for a number of years. In the beginning of 2005, the Department had appointed an Acting Commissioner, who had made efforts to address the backlog. The Commissioner had been suspended pending an investigation.

Mr Moss commented that while Section Education Training Authorities (SETAs) were very good at ensuring that unemployed youth were given the necessary training, they were not so good at addressing issues affecting the disabled. Mr Morotoba said that the Department of Labour was trying to address this problem. Changing the staff of the SETAs was one way of doing that. It was important to bear in mind that trade unions and employers had different agendas. It was important to ensure that all roleplayers were on board. Exploitation would discredit learnerships and apprenticeship programmes.

Mr Moss asked how many of the 59 9990 people trained in 2004/05 had been disabled? Mr Andrew said that the Department had exceeded its goal of 2% of its total employees disabled by 2005. At what level were these disabled people employed?

Mr Tsengiwe said that the Department had set out to employ 5% disabled people by 2006. Currently 3% of the people employed by the Department had disabilities. Most however were employed at a junior or middle management level.

Mr Moss was surprised that the law allowed children to work. Mr Andrew added that much exploitation was taking place in workshops and factories. These conditions needed to be addressed. The Chairperson requested the Department to forward more information regarding child labour.

Ms Van Zyl said that children were allowed to leave school at the age of 15 or once they got to Grade 8. Regulations were in place to ensure that children were not doing work that was ‘age inappropriate’. Children within the agriculture industry, for example, were not allowed to work more than 35 hours per week. Workshops were being held involving the welfare sector, aimed at setting minimum wages. She urged the Committee to inform the Department of bad cases where they could assist the workers.

Mr Moss and Mr Kholwane (ANC) applauded the Department for the work done at the Moses Kotane Housing Project. Mr Moss requested additional information regarding the project. Mr Kholwane asked whether there were any plans to do similar projects elsewhere in the country.

Mr Morotoba said that more information on the project would be made available. He encouraged Members to visit the project. He said that the Department was aware that many projects that were under pressure to deliver.

Mr Kholwane asked whether the Department of Labour employed enough people to assist the public with the filling out of forms. Much of the work done in his constituency involved filling out forms, since the public was told by Department officials that they were not in a position to assist them. Was this official policy?

Mr Tsengiwe and Ms Van Zyl agreed that there was no policy stating that officials should not assist the public with the filling out of forms. Mr Tsengiwe assured the Committee that this situation would be followed up on. Ms Van Zyl added that the Department would be focussing on service delivery. Cases where a service was not being delivered should be reported so that they could be addressed.

Mr Kholwane asked how much was being done in terms of the National Skills Development Strategy, to pump more resources into Further Education and Training. The shortages of artisans reported by SASOL refinery were an embarrassment. He added that the Department should be assisting students with funding if they were studying towards qualifications relevant to the needs of the economy. Mr Nzimande asked more about the short courses offered to artisans.

The Chairperson added that for many disabled persons, just getting to Grade 12 was a struggle. She had heard there were only bursaries available for those studying towards postgraduate degrees. Was this the case? Bursaries were needed at undergraduate level as well.

The Department responded that short courses were aimed at providing the skill needed to survive. The Department did not view them as learnerships. There was a possibility that they might be extended to three months. Learnerships were generally one year long, with apprenticeships lasting three years.

Mr Morotoba said that funding received from the Department of Education was mainly aimed at the skills needed in the country. If SASOL had advertised vacant positions, they might have discovered that there was no shortage of artisans. The NSFAS received the bulk of its funds from the Department of Education. Students received funding only after a proper assessment had been done. Funding was allocated in terms of need and economic relevance. The Department of Labour gave preference to students who were acquiring scarce skills that were in high demand. These students would find employment easily.

Mr Nzimande asked more about the current status of ‘sheltered factories’. Mr Morotoba responded that sheltered factories were currently under review. These factories had been inherited from the Apartheid era, and mainly supplied the government with furniture, etc. The Department was considering providing jobs for military veterans in these facilities. Currently there was no screening done of the people employed at these factories.

Mr Nzimande asked the role of the Department of Labour in the closing down of schools of industry. Mr Morotoba informed the Committee that these schools had always been registered as Section 21 companies. They had used to be funded by the Department of Labour, but that was no longer the case.

Mr Nzimande asked whether the research done by research centres was still being continued. What purpose did the research serve? What happened in cases where companies were not in compliance with employment equity policies?

Mr Morotoba said that the research was being done to see where improvements could be made. Research included impact surveys. The Director-General’s review considered reports of non–compliance with Employment Equity policies. This process has almost been finalised. A report would be available early in 2006.

Mr Nzimande asked what kind of remuneration or stipends students received. Mr Morotoba responded that the Department was in the process of creating a minimum ‘floor’ for remuneration. Salaries among students would differ, just as professionals from different professions were paid differently. The Department was still struggling to find a common model.

The meeting was adjourned.