A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.
LABOUR: PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
23 August 2005
SECTOR EDUCATION AND TRAINING AUTHORITIES PROGRESS: Briefings
Chairperson: Ms O Kasienyane (ANC)
Documents handed out:
Department overview of Sector and Training Authorities
Public Sector Education and Training Authority briefing
Services SETA briefing
Public Services SETA briefing
Financial and Accounting Services Sector Education and Training briefing
Parliamentary research document on Challenges facing Financial and Accounting SETA
List and contact details of SETAs (see Appendix 1)
The Committee was briefed on the progress, challenges and future plans of the Public Sector Education and Training Authority (PSETA), Financial and Accounting Services Sector Education and Training (FASSET) and the Services Sector Education and Training Authority (SSETA). The Committee was also briefed by the Department of Labour on the process of amalgamation of different SETAs which had resulted in more streamlined SETAs.
Members were concerned that Department of Home Affairs personnel had a poor work ethic; that the public perceived PSETA as concentrating on training the employed rather than the unemployed; absentee employees often attended conferences to the detriment of service delivery, and the employment of foreigners rather than training South Africans. There were also unhealthy relations with the Department of Trade and Industry. The commercial Skills Development Facilitators were not registered with the SSETA. This had resulted in certificates that were not accredited by the South African Qualifications Authority (SAQA). They were also concerned about the critical shortage of black accountants. Members also asked about the steps taken to solve the problem of poor Grade Twelve school results in maths, science and English.
Department of Labour briefing
Mr S Morotoba, Acting Deputy Director-General, said that the amalgamation of Sector Education and Training Authorities (SETAs) had resulted in streamlined SETA categories. The Defence SETA had been dissolved. One part had gone to the Public Services SETA and the Intelligence part had been incorporated into the Safety and Security SETA. The Primary and the Secondary Agriculture SETAs were merged to form the current Agricultural SETA. Over the past five years, there had been significant improvement in governance of the SETAs. The SETAs had managed to achieve their targets. The University of South Africa (UNISA) had been mandated to compile a course on corporate governance. Fund management and measurement methodology was in the process of continual improvement.
Mr M Mzondeki (ANC) wanted to know where people could contact the SETAs. What had been the problems with under-spent funds?
Mr S Morotoba replied that if there were complaints from the public, he felt that SETAs had not done their work properly in terms of communication. SETAs could only release funds when skills plans had been submitted to the skills fund. Some of the submitted skills plans were not workable and therefore funds would be withheld from the company which was supposed to train people.
Mr C Lowe (DA) enquired about the meaning of "marked improvement".
Mr Morotoba replied that the improvement referred to the fact that SETAs had exceeded their targets. There were problems, such as misuse of funds by some employers while other employers used learners as a source of cheap labour. Improvement referred to the fact that guidelines had been translated into all official languages for the private and public sector. All trade unions federations were consulted so that they could also educate their members. Department of Labour Inspectors were deployed to different areas for troubleshooting purposes.
Mr S Rasmeni (ANC) raised concerns about the use of acronyms that were causing confusion. Mr Morotoba replied that the use of acronyms was an oversight on their part. Leaflets explaining the acronyms would be distributed to Members.
Mr G Anthony (ANC) enquired about the effect of the Expanded Public Works Programme on leanerships. How were the funds disbursed and what kind of measures were used by the Department to ensure that learners got quality training?
Mr Morotoba replied that the Department channelled funds through Provincial Departments of Public Works. Provinces would then channel funds through Municipalities. He conceded that the process had had hiccups because the construction industry was highly fragmented.
Mr R Naidoo (Department of Labour) replied that the Department had devised monitoring tools such as a quality assurance system. The Department had discovered that learners had been taken advantage of by some training providers and employers. Some learners had ended up with useless qualifications.
Public Sector Education and Training Authority briefing
Mr K Govender, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of PSETA, said the Authority was responsible for the up-skilling of public servants. The SETA was established as a legal entity in terms of Section 9(1) of the Skills Development Act. It was comprised of 20 board members, which included employer organisations and employee representatives, an independent Chairperson, specialists and the CEO. Some of the achievements were the establishment of new unit standards and qualifications in conjunction with the South African Qualifications Association. About 899 learners had registered with PSETA and had obtained their qualifications. Some of the challenges were that the scope of coverage was limited to employees that did not belong to any other SETA. Some of the provinces had not submitted their skills plans and therefore they could not benefit from the process.
Mr Lowe asked about the kind of interventions undertaken by PSETA to rectify the deplorable service at the Department of Home Affairs. What could be done to improve the services of that Department? Mr L Maduna (ANC) asked about the type of interventions that could be used to change the Apartheid mindset of civil servants and the poor work ethic. What had been done to assist workers from other Departments?
Mr K Govender replied that they had used the Department of Home Affairs as an example. They were also dealing with other departments. The South African Management Development Institute (SAMDI) had developed an induction and orientation course for all civil servants. Huge sums of money had been spent on short courses that were often useless.
Mr Mthongi (ANC) enquired why PSETA had not been targeting the unemployed rather than those who were already working. How did PSETA measure the effectiveness of the provided training and the type of monitoring tools used?
Mr Govender replied that PSETA had mainly focussed on the unemployed and the reskilling of those already employed in the public service. However, the majority of learnerships were for the unemployed. Furthermore, there were quality assessors who were responsible for quality assurance.
Mr S Rasmeni asked why PSETA had not been training enough South Africans rather than employing foreigners. He wanted clarity on absent employees who often attended conferences which had not been planned for. He also wanted to know what steps had been taken to address the skills shortage in the health sector.
Mr Govender replied that the public service would have to come up with a long-term solution that would address the skills shortage in the health sector. The recruitment of foreign doctors and nurses was a short-term solution. He admitted that conferences were a huge problem for the civil service because of the absenteeism and resources wasted in the process.
The Chairperson enquired about the kind of steps taken to change the bad behaviour of Home Affairs officials.
Mr Govender replied that there were plans in place to work with all departments. There was no specific relationship with the Department of Home Affairs.
Mr Rasmeni asked why the public sector lagged behind the private sector on Employment Equity targets. What measures had been taken to solve the problem of fragmentation and workplaces that were not conducive to productivity? He cited an example of the former "Homelands" where he had seen dilapidated buildings and poorly equipped offices with no computers.
Mr Govender replied that the public service was doing very well compared to the private sector, except with meeting representivity targets for women and disabled employees. There was a need for an intersectoral disability forum and to link more with the Presidency. On fragmentation, he said that PSETA had to look at training public servants that would be able to move between all three spheres of the government. There was a need to provide facilities and to make sure that learners would have access to them after they had finished their learnerships. Learnerships were awarded according to the submitted skills plans. On computer skills, he stated that the emphasis was on training end-users in basic Microsoft packages.
Mr Mthongi asked about the basis on which provinces were targeted for skills development purposes.
Mr Govender replied that provinces were chosen on the basis of those that had submitted their skills plan on a first-come-first-served basis.
The Chairperson wanted to know why KwaZulu-Natal had no learnerships.
Dr Prinsloo replied that the Department could not afford to have all 23 SETAs in every town. Sometimes 15 SETAs were housed in one building as a way of saving costs. Scarcity of resources had necessitated that priority should be given to scarce skills. KwaZulu-Natal would be catered for only when funding became available.
Financial and Accounting Services Sector Education and Training Authority briefing.
Ms Cheryl James, CEO, said that FASSET was a SETA for finance, accounting and related disciplines. FASSET had registered leanerships in 22 categories across all sectors. Up to 20 621 learners of which 13 610 were previously unemployed people were being trained. The learners were trained at the 7 000 accredited workplaces. There were a number of social projects established by the SETA in different provinces such as Limpopo, Western Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. Challenges facing FASSET included the poor standard of maths, science and English learners who entered the sector. This had continued to have a negative impact on learners coming to the sector. The race and gender profile and the results of training by the SETA would take seven to ten years to change the sector.
Mr Rasmeni asked what was meant by financial services. Ms C James replied that financial services included accountants and management consulting but excluded insurance companies and banks.
Mr Maduna (ANC) asked how FASSET would deal with the dire shortage of accountants. Ms James replied that the Association of Black Accountants of South Africa (ABASSA) had been active in encouraging students to take accounting, maths and science. For one to become an accountant one had to study up to Honours level and complete articles before being admitted as an accountant. It would take time before tangible results were seen.
Mr Ngcengwane (ANC) asked why the development programmes were located in Stellenbosch. Ms James replied that FASSET had projects in KZN, the Eastern Cape and Limpopo and not only in Western Cape.
Mr Mthongi asked for clarification of the meaning of "black learners" and the reason that learnerships were focussed on grades eleven and twelve; thereby ignoring the unemployed. He also wanted more information on FASSET’s cash flow statements.
Ms James replied that the concept of "black people" included coloured, Indian and African people. FASSET focussed on grade eleven and twelve because they were capable of making career choices. Some learners who were from schools that had been accredited by FASSET could take shorter periods to finish their learnerships. Discretionary funds were used specifically to train the unemployed. Cash flow statements would be made available to the Committee on a quarterly basis.
Mr Rasmeni asked about the relationship between FASSET and the Department of Education with regard to poor maths and science results and what was being done for the unemployed.
Ms James replied that the Department of Education had embarked on elaborate campaigns to encourage learners to take maths, science, accounting and English. FASSET had a very good relationship with the Department of Education.
Mr Mogale enquired why the SA Revenue Services did not pay the skills levy while they benefited from the system. Dr Prinsloo replied that Section 38 of the Skills Development Act prohibited state-owned enterprises from paying the levy.
Prince Zulu (IFP) asked why the skills grants were not reflective of the demographics of the country and why gender equity was not reflected in leadership positions.
Ms James replied that all FASSET grants were dedicated to Black people which included Coloured, Indian, women and the disabled. Changes in gender composition would be a very slow process due to the time needed to qualify as an accountant. FASSET had been encouraging women to own their companies and to take up positions as board members. The reason was that FASSET dealt mostly with small and medium enterprises that were largely male dominated.
Services Sector Education and Training Authority briefing
Mr I Blumenthal, CEO, reported that the SETA had registered 54 learnerships categories and had been active in the formation of an intersectoral Disability forum. The SETA had managed to implement the Domestic Workers skills development project that was highly regarded by the recipients and employers alike. They had also established the African Marketing Confederation and African Hairdressing Confederation. Challenges facing the SETA were that there was a lot of apathy on the part of learners and service providers. There were also problems of media bias, which lead to negative reporting on the SSETA in the mainstream media.
Mr Rasmeni asked about the problems with the Department of Trade and Industry, and whose responsibility the training of Skills Development Facilitators was.
Mr I Blumenthal (SSETA) replied that that R200 million was supposed to be allocated to the SSETA by the DTI to develop management capacity and personnel for the call centre industry. The DTI had not released the money and only 3 years later the amount was cut back to R20 million. That led to a disadvantaged position for the South African call centre industry, which was the biggest creator of jobs in the service industry. Private Skills Development Facilitators (SDF) were independent operators that were supposed to be accredited by South African Qualifications Association. To qualify, one had to undergo a year of training. There were many fly-by-night SDFs - people were offered certificates after training for a period of two days to two weeks. Many desperate people had been victims of these fly-by-night operators.
Dr Prinsloo replied that it was difficult to regulate the free market for SDFs.
Mr Mthongi asked for the reasons that sparked interest in skills development in SMEs and what was the relationship between the National Youth Commission and SSETA. He also wanted to know why SSETA had focussed on high school learners rather than the unemployed.
Mr Blumenthal replied that they focussed on high school learners because they were categorised at Further Education and Training level. SMEs had benefited tremendously through the skills grants.
Dr Prinsloo replied that the training of unemployed persons was funded by the National Skills Fund and the Umsobomvu Fund.
Mr Maduna asked what was being done to train burial societies and stokvels in bookkeeping as their leaders exploited the rank and file members.
Mr Blumenthal replied that burial societies were not interested in training because they felt that the training would result in over regulation. There were smaller groupings that had participated in training.
The meeting was adjourned.
Telephone Number(s): (012) 325 1655
Fax Number(s): (012) 325 1677
Street Address: 2nd Floor
529 Belvedere Street
Postal Address: PO Box 26024
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.paeta.co.za
Telephone Number(s): (012) 365 2827
Fax Number(s): (012) 348 1445
Street Address: 91 Glenwood Road
Postal Address: Private Bag X20003
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.setasa.co.za
BANKSETA – Banking Sector Education and Training Authority
Telephone Number(s): (011) 805-9661
Fax Number(s): (011) 805-8348
Street Address: Block 6
Thornhill Office Park
94 Bekker Road
Postal Address: P.O. Box 11678
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.bankseta.org.za/
CETA - Construction Education and Training Authority
Telephone Number(s): (011) 265 5900
Fax Number(s): (011) 265 5924
Street Address: Building No 5
Momentum Business Park
Old Pretoria Road
Postal Address: PO Box 1955
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.ceta.org.za
CHIETA Chemical Industries SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 726 4026
Fax Number(s): (011) 726 7777
Street Address: 2 Clamart Road
Postal Address: PO Box 961
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.chieta.org.za
CTFL Clothing, Textiles, Footwear and Leather SETA
Telephone Number(s): (031) 702 4482
Fax Number(s): (031) 702 4113
Street Address: 3rd Floor
28 Crompton Street
Postal Address: PO Box 935
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.ctflseta.org.za
ESETA Energy SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 689 5300
Fax Number(s): (011) 689 5340/5341
Street Address: 19th Floor
Old Mutual Building
35 Pritchard Street
Postal Address: PO Box 5983
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.eseta.org.za
ETDP Education Training and Development Practices SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 807 5621
Fax Number(s): (011) 807 7490
Street Address: Tuscany Office Park
Postal Address: PO Box 5734
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.etdpseta.org.za
FASSET - Financial and Accounting Services
Telephone Number(s): 086 101 0001
Fax Number(s): (011) 476-5756
Street Address: Block A,
306 3rd Floor,
Eva Office Park,
Cnr. Beyers Naude & Judges Avenue,
Postal Address: P.O. BOX 6801,
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.fasset.org.za/
FIETA Forest Industry SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 712 0600
Fax Number(s): (011) 339 1166
Street Address: 7th Floor
19 Ameshoff Street
Postal Address: PO Box 31276
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.fieta.org.za
FOODBEV Food and Beverage Manufacturing Industry SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 802 1211
Fax Number(s): (011) 802 1518
Street Address: 2nd Floor
Postal Address: PO Box 245
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.foodbev.co.za
HWSETA Health and Welfare SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 607 6907
Fax Number(s): (011) 607 6957
Street Address: Ground Floor
Cnr Bradford Road and Smith Street
Postal Address: Private Bag X15
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.hwseta.org.za
INSETA Insurance SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 544 2000
Fax Number(s): (011) 484 0862
Street Address: Ground Floor, North Wing
11 St. Andrews Road
Postal Address: PO Box 32035
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.inseta.org.za
ISETT Information Systems, Electronics and Telecommunications Technologies
Telephone Number(s): (011) 805 5115
Fax Number(s): (011) 805 6833
Street Address: 3rd Level, West Wing
Postal Address: PO Box 5585
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.isett.org.za
LGWSETA Local Government, Water and Related Services
Telephone Number(s): (011) 456 8579
Fax Number(s): (011) 450 4948
Street Address: 4-6 Corporate Park
20 Skeen Boulevard Road
Postal Address: PO Box 1964
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.lgwseta.co.za
MAPPP Media, Advertising, Publishing, Printing and Packaging SETA
Telephone Number(s): (021) 949 1463
Fax Number(s): (021) 949 1468
Street Address: 101 Voortrekker Road
Postal Address: PO Box 2847
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.mappp-seta.co.za
MERSETA Manufacturing, Engineering and Related Services
Telephone Number(s): (011) 484 9310
Fax Number(s): (011) 492 1920
Street Address: 3rd Floor
8 Hillside Road
Postal Address: PO Box 6848
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.merseta.org.za
MQA SETA for Mining and Minerals Sector
Telephone Number(s): (011) 630 3500
Fax Number(s): (011) 832 1027
Street Address: 5th Floor
Union Corporation Building
74-78 Marshall Street
Postal Address: Private Bag X118
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.mqa.org.za
PSETA Public Service Sector SETA
Telephone Number(s): (012) 314 7251
Fax Number(s): 086 615 0046
Street Address: 12th Floor
Batho Pele House
Cnr Vermeulen and Van der Walt Streets
Postal Address: Private Bag X916
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.dpsa.gov.za
SAS SETA Safety and Security (Previously known as DIDTETA SETA
Telephone Number(s): (012) 663 6983
Fax Number(s): (012) 663 4878
Street Address: Room 404
Die Anker Building
1279 Mike Crawford Avenue
Postal Address: PO Box 11210
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://didteta.co.za
SAS SETA Safety and security (Previously POSLEC SETA)
Telephone Number(s): (011) 805 0084
Fax Number(s): (011) 805 6630
Street Address: 3rd Level
East Gallagher House
19 Richards Drive
Postal Address: PO Box 7612
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.poslecseta.org.za
SERVICES SETA Services SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 715 1800
Fax Number(s): (011) 276 9623
Street Address: Services House
14-15 Serborne Road
Postal Address: PO Box 3322
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.serviceseta.org.za
TETA Transport SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 781 1280
Fax Number(s): (011) 781 0200
Street Address: 2nd Floor
344 Pretoria Street
Postal Address: Private Bag X10016
Email Address: email@example.com
THETA Tourism and Hospitality SETA
Telephone Number(s): (011) 803 6010
Fax Number(s): (011) 803 6702
Street Address: 38 Homestead Road
Postal Address: PO Box 1329
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Website Address: http://www.theta.org.za
W&RSETA Wholesale and Retail SETA
Telephone Number(s): (012) 452 9200
Fax Number(s): (012) 452 9229
Street Address: 315 Bronkhorst Street
Postal Address: PO Box 2176
Email Address: email@example.com
Website Address: http://www.wrseta.org.za