Deliberations

Meeting report

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES RULES COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF MEETING
10 May 2004

These minutes are were provided by the National Council of Provinces Table Staff

PRESENT
Kgoali, Ms J L (Chairperson of the NCOP)
Mahlangu, Mr M J (Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP)
Adolph, Rev E
Dlulane, Ms B N
Hollander, Ms P
Kolweni, Mr Z S
Madlala, Ms N M
Mokoena, Kgoshi L M
Ntwanambi, Ms N
Oliphant, Ms M N (Acting Chairperson of Committees)
Qikani, Ms A N D
Raju, Mr N M
Setona, Mr T S (Acting Deputy Chairperson of Committees)
Sinclair, Mr K
Sulliman, Mr M A (Acting Programming Whip)
Shiceka, Mr S
Tau, Mr R J
Themba, Ms M P
Tlhagale, Mr J O
Vilakazi, Ms J N
Watson, Mr A
Windvoël, Mr V V Z (Acting Chief Whip of the NCOP)

IN ATTENDANCE: Premiers of Provinces, staff and management of NCOP and Parliament and Provincial Liaison Officers.

1. OPENING
The Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Ms J L Kgoali, opened the meeting at 8:25 a.m. The Chairperson welcomed all members to the meeting and enquired whether all parties and delegates from provinces were present.

Ms Kgoali said that a workshop for all members on the procedures of the NCOP would be required to empower members to function optimally in the new Parliament.

2. ADOPTION OF AGENDA
The Chairperson put the agenda before the meeting for adoption. The agenda was agreed to without any additions.

3. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE RULES COMMITTEE OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
The Chairperson communicated to the meeting that in terms of Council Rule 116(2), decisions of the meeting would be agreed to when five (5) or more provinces agreed to a question before the meeting.

In terms of the above-mentioned Rule, each province has one vote, cast by its delegation head. Parties not represented by any of the provincial delegation heads, were entitled to attend and speak but could not vote.

The meeting then proceeded to Item 4 on the agenda namely, the Establishment of the Rules Committee of the National Council of Provinces. The Chairperson proposed that the Rules Committee of the National Council of Provinces be established in terms of Rule 116 and asked members to comment on the proposal.

The meeting proceeded to voting on the matter and the Chairperson requested each province to indicate whether they voted in favour, against or abstained on the Establishment of the Rules Committee of the NCOP. All provinces voted in favour.

The Chairperson declared the Council Rules Committee duly established in terms of Council Rule 116.

Agreed
The Rules Committee of the National Council of Provinces had been established in terms of Council Rule 116.

4. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SUBCOMMITTEES OF THE RULES COMMITTEE
The Chairperson referred the meeting to Council Rule 121 which provides for the Establishment of the Subcommittees of the Rules Committee. The Chairperson proposed that the Subcommittees be established in terms of Rule 121 and asked members to comment on the proposal.

The meeting proceeded to voting on the matter and the Chairperson requested all provinces to indicate whether they voted in favour, against or abstained on the matter. All provinces voted in favour. The Chairperson declared the Subcommittees of the Rules Committee duly established in terms of Rule 121.

The Chairperson requested provinces and parties to submit names of members who would serve on the Subcommittees by Friday, 14 May 2004. The Chairperson added that such names would be referred to staff for publication in the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports (ATC).

Mr Sulliman asked whether special delegates could also serve on the Subcommittees.

The Chairperson replied that the Rules provided that special delegates might serve on the Subcommittees.

Mrs Vilakazi asked whether the Provincial Whip would be one of the two members from each province that was supposed to attend the Rules meeting.

The Chairperson responded that the Provincial Whip was the leader of the delegation and represented the Premier. The Chairperson said that there could not be two permanent members of the Council in the delegation representing the province. The Chairperson added that one of the delegates must be a special delegate from the province.

Mrs Vilakazi said that it would mean that the name of a special delegate must be included in the KwaZulu-Natal list as that would mean that she could not serve with Mrs Oliphant, who was the leader of the delegation.

The Chairperson said that political parties were represented and that they could speak but may not vote. That only the person who had been designated by the province could cast a vote. The Chairperson said that Mrs Vilakazi, as the representative of her political party, could attend the Rules Committee meeting, but may not vote.

Mr Mahlangu said that Mrs Vilakazi was dealing with an internal matter which should be dealt with at another forum.

Mrs Oliphant said that the Provincial Whip acted on behalf of the Premier of the province. She said that Mrs Vilakazi was there as a member of the Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP).

Mrs Ntwanambi said that at least two representatives from the province should be present.

Mr Watson said that the Rule that provided for the composition of the Subcommittees made provision for two members from the minority parties to be members of the Subcommittee. He asked how the decision was made in terms of who these members would be.

Mr Mahlangu said that there was no prescribed mechanism in place to decide the matter but the practice has been for minority parties to decide amongst themselves.

Agreed
The Subcommittees of the Rules Committee had been established in terms of Council Rule 121.

5. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PROGRAMME COMMITTEE OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
The Chairperson referred the meeting to Council Rule 142(1), which provides for the establishment of a Programme Committee of the National Council of Provinces.

The Chairperson proposed that the Programme Committee be established in terms of Rule 142(1) and asked members to comment on the proposal. The meeting proceeded with voting on the matter. The Chairperson requested all provinces to indicate whether they voted in favour, against or abstained on the matter. All nine provinces voted in favour.

The Programming Committee was duly established in terms of Council Rule 142(1).

The Chairperson reminded members that a meeting of the Joint Programme Committee (JPC) had been scheduled for 14h00 to consider the parliamentary programme.

Agreed
The Programme Committee of the National Council of Provinces had been established in terms of Council Rule 142(1).

6. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEES OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
The Chairperson referred the meeting to Council Rule 151 (1), (2) and (3) that provides for the Select Committees of the National Council of Provinces. The Chairperson proposed that the Select Committees be established in terms of Rule 151 and asked members to comment on the proposal.

Kgoshi Mokoena said that the ministerial portfolios of defence and intelligence should be included as part of the cluster on Justice and Constitutional Affairs.

Mr Setona asked whether the joint committees would be covered at a later stage.

The Chairperson replied in the affirmative.

Mr Sulliman asked whether the committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals was a Select Committee.

The Chairperson responded that it was a Standing Committee.

The meeting proceeded with voting on the matter. The Chairperson requested all provinces to indicate whether they voted in favour, against or abstained on the matter. All nine provinces voted in favour.

The Select Committees were duly established in terms of Council Rule 151.

The Chairperson requested provinces and parties to submit the names of the members who will be serving on the Select Committees to the Chairperson by Friday, 14 May 2004. The names of members will be published in the ATC.

The Chairperson said that the Select Committees should meet as soon as possible thereafter to begin carrying out their functions.

Agreed
The Select Committees of the National Council of Provinces had been established in terms of Council Rule 151(1), (2) and (3).

The meeting was adjourned at 8:57 a.m.


____________________
MS J L KGOALI, MP
CHAIRPERSON: NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES