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SPORT AND RECREATION PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
14 June 2005
SOCCER WORLD CUP PREPARATIONS: SPORTS DEPARTMENT BRIEFING; MUNICIPAL INFRASTRUCTURE GRANT: PROVINCIAL DEPARTMENTS BRIEFINGS
Chairperson: Mr B Komphela (ANC)
Documents handed out:
Department briefing on 2010 FIFA Soccer World Cup
Gauteng Department of Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture briefing
Department of Local Government on Municipal Infrastructure Grant
Eastern Cape Department of Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture on Municipal Infrastructure Grant.
The Department of Sport and Recreation presented the first phase of the plans for the 2010 FIFA Soccer World Cup. A Local Organising Committee (LOC) had been set up to co-ordinate the event. The terms of reference and responsibilities were being discussed. The modes of communications between the different levels of government were highlighted. The demands from FIFA were explained.
The provincial departments then presented their activities in preparation for 2010. Their main concerns were the lack of communication from the National Department. The delay in information regarding the stadiums to be used and the financial implications were major concerns. The 2010 events could be used to improve sport as a whole as opposed to just football.
The provincial departments also gave their views on the Municipal Infrastructure Grant (MIG) and expressed their discontent and problems with the grant. The provinces pointed out that the grant had moved the responsibility for facilities away from the provincial departments. The responsibility was now in the hands of municipalities whose first priority was not sport. Thus the investment in sport had been reduced. The Department of Provincial and Local Government (DPLG) had not explained how the grant was meant to work with all the different sectors playing a part.
The DPLG then explained the reasons for the Municipal Infrastructure Grant and how it was meant to work. It was agreed that the Department would liase with all heads of provincial departments of sport to ensure that everyone received the same information.
The Chairperson said that after the Committee’s visit to France, it had been clear that much collaboration was needed to ensure the best staging of the 2010 World Cup. The meeting would deal with how the national department and provinces were dealing with the arrangements for 2010. Inputs would also be given on the Municipal Infrastructure Grant. The Committee was reminded that they had to look into the Bill for the safety and security at stadiums. The Committee would be visiting and inspecting stadiums in order to inform the Bill.
Mr D Hendrickse (Head of Department) presented the progress in the preparations for 2010. The first phase had focused heavily on facilities. He highlighted the challenges and the phases of preparations. The organisational structure, international liaisons, benefits for South Africa, the stadium deadline and some of the demands from FIFA were mentioned. [Please see attached presentation].
Mr C Frolick (ANC) asked about the implications of hosting this World Cup. Lessons had to be learnt from the hosting of the cricket and rugby World Cups. Evaluations of these events needed to be done in order to have a point of reference. The trend had been that after the hosting of big events such as World Cups, Federations seemed to run into serious financial problems. There was a need to understand why.
Mr Hendrickse said that South Africa had hosted many big events such as the World Cup. The country had developed a fair amount of expertise especially in the safety and security sector. During the Rugby and Cricket World Cups, there had not been a single incident. The Cricket World Cup had left legacies of playing fields in rural and disadvantaged areas. The current financial crisis was not due to the World Cup. There were lessons that could be learnt.
Mr Frolick said that legislation had been changed for the Cricket World Cup. Would these changes be sufficient or was additional legislation needed? What were the reasons for this? Had FIFA become tougher?
Mr Frolick said that the 2010 World Cup was turning into a major corporate event, which was the worst scenario. All South African people had to benefit. How would the Department work around that?
Mr A Mlangeni (ANC) said he wanted to see a provincial voice in the preparations. Provinces were essential as all the campaigns had to be run by provinces. Thus the provinces had to know what the Department was doing. The presentation had focused on government participation and not provincial participation. The provinces could not be left out.
Mr Hendrickse agreed that the provinces had to be fully involved because the events would be happening in the provinces. The issue needed to be looked at. The fact that the process was still centrally driven had been tabled with the Minister. The process would be rolled out to the provinces. They were still at the stage of defining roles and responsibilities. This fact had to be emphasised.
Mr E Mtshali (ANC) asked what mechanisms were in place to accommodate poor people in South Africa. A large proportion of the population could not afford the tickets. Regarding the distribution of tickets, South Africa would be given a certain number of tickets. What mechanisms were in place for those who could not buy tickets?
Mr Hendrickse explained that regarding the availability and the cost, the tickets would be divided by thirds. One third of the tickets would go to the FIFA family. They were currently asking who this FIFA family was and how big the family was. One third would go to countries from across the world and one third would go to South Africa and Africa. This meant that the tickets would be at a premium only. They were aware that the costs of the tickets were too high. Other forums across Africa had said that the tickets had to be affordable across Africa. FIFA pegged the ticket prices. FIFA wanted to maximise their profits and that was how they would price the tickets. South Africa did not have a lot of power to do anything. There were mechanisms in place to help people to afford the tickets such as saving schemes starting now.
Mr Hendrickse appreciated the input but pointed out that the points were all premature. The preparation that had been done had focused on clarifying the different roles and responsibilities. There was a Local Organising Committee (LOC) that had been created in which government was involved to ensure that the South African people benefited. FIFA saw the quadrennial World Cups as cash cows to fund their own functioning for four years after the event. FIFA wanted to make money from the event and they had emphasised that it was a FIFA World Cup. The demands from FIFA were excessive and FIFA had pointed out that they could take away the World Cup if they chose. The negotiations were difficult.
Ms M Modipa (Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture Gauteng: Head of Department) said that a serious discussion was needed on the vision of the World Cup. How would the ‘Africaness’ of the event be put into operation? What did an African 2010 mean? This was actually not a provincial event but rather a local government event. What was the expectation from provinces on the infrastructure, safety and IT requirements?
Mr Hendrickse said that good suggestions had been made. They were grappling with the ‘Africaness’ of the event. Workshops had been planned around the issue. There would be more workshops with all the role players. They would use the forums that were in place.
Ms Modipa pointed out that there was an element of doubt about stadiums. Gauteng had earmarked infrastructure but they needed indicators to consolidate the infrastructure.
Mr Hendrickse said that they were trying to ensure that the country benefited from the buildings that would be built. Budgets needed to come into place. There was an urgency to do this. Tourists would be coming in and the country had to benefit from this.
Adv. R Solomons (Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture Western Cape: Head of Department) asked about the LOC. Where was this located and what was the nature of the committee? Was it a government Department or a public entity? How did the LOC link with government Departments? A workshop was needed for the government to discuss the African theme of the event and to clarify liaison between the government and the LOC.
Mr Hendrickse said that this was also a technical team. A lot of work had gone into planning this team. The appointment of a Director-General had been completed two weeks ago. It was not possible to say where the LOC would be located at the present moment. It had been suggested that the LOC be located within the Department of Sport. There was a need to include all the levels of government in this decision.
The Chairperson agreed that there had to be proper communication between national, provincial and local structures of government. It was important to look at the implications of hosting the event. They could not just accept a FIFA World Cup. The country needed to take ownership of the event and this could only happen if everyone was involved from the beginning. Local committees were not impressed because the LOC was talking to the local structures through the media. LOC had to talk to the provinces. There were other factors to consider, such as hotels. Was FIFA doing an audit of hotels? In practice, the government had to cover the loss to FIFA if there was a deficit. There had to be an understanding all round because there were some delicate issues. What were the simple benefits? How had the statistics of these benefits been arrived at?
Mr B Dhlamini (IFP) asked if the country just wanted to stage the event or they wanted to stage the event and win. The current state of soccer had not seen many wins since the African Cup of Nations in 1996. What strategies were in place to prepare a stronger team that could win?
The Chairperson said that during the Cricket World Cup children were playing cricket everywhere. The same happened with the Rugby World Cup. Was the Department preparing with the provinces to exploit this opportunity?
Mr Hendrickse said that this was an important question. The Department had not given the departments any guarantees. Departments that had given guarantees dealt with the business side of the World Cup. It was important to deliver a team that was competitive. If the country lost in the first round people would lose interest. Football was a major sport and the mandate of the Department was to provide access and assist in delivering performing teams. This was a long-term process that would not happen overnight. South Africa’s performance on the continent and the internationally had not been very good. They were contemplating special programs so teams could be competitive.
The Chairperson agreed that it was an important issue that had to be discussed. The Department was in a position to assist municipalities and the Memorandum of Understanding between the Department and the Department of Education was crucial to this.
Western Cape Department of Sports, Arts and Culture briefing
Adv. R Solomons (Head of Department) explained the structure of the 2010 co-ordinating provincial team. A key decision had been taken that Athlone Stadium would be the stadium used for 2010 with projects such as the N2 Gateway being developed as part of the 2010 infrastructure. An agreement had been reached that all the practice venues would be in disadvantaged areas. The financial implications needed to be discussed with all the provinces. Regarding school sport, the province had a provincial school policy, which was implemented in collaboration with the Department of Education. [Please see attached presentation].
The Chairperson asked about the accessibility of facilities and leases of stadiums. Leases caused problems of access for teams. Were there leases in the Western Cape and did they cause problems of access?
Adv Solomon said that there were major problems regarding leases. Pre-1994 municipalities entered into long leases. The province was currently doing an audit together with the legal Department to look at solving some of the problems. There was a policy that facilities should be accessible and there was a Transformation Unit that intervened in difficult cases. It was a serious issue that had to be dealt with by the Department, local government and Treasury. The Chairperson said that the matter had to be dealt with.
Advocate Solomons said that they had expressed concern that the Building Sport and Recreation Programme (BSRP) funding had been moved. There was a danger that municipalities would say the money was for infrastructure but then used the money for any infrastructure like graveyards. The Western Cape had 30 municipalities but only three had set aside money for sport. Government had to counter-balance BSRP funding because there was a serious need for sport facilities. A meeting was planned to discuss 2010, sport and recreation infrastructure and sport programs. The City of Cape Town had a directorate for sport and recreation. Some municipalities had no one driving the sport mandate and it was clear that municipalities needed a sport component. In the Western Cape, the municipalities that took sport seriously were matched rand for rand. There had to be a stronger indication that money would be set aside.
Mr L Reid (ANC) asked if he could attend the meeting planned together with Mr Mtshali. Sport was not a priority in the Western Cape. Why did white schools only play against white schools in their festivals?
Adv. Solomons would invite a wider scope and appreciated the attendance of the Members. Racism in sport was still a problem but he would take up the matter. The province was interacting with the United School Sports Association of SA (USSASA).
The Chairperson pointed out that the Western Cape was working the hardest on sport issues. The Committee was discussing the matter of USSASA. They were not convinced that the sport structure could survive without USSASA at this stage. There was no capacity and infrastructure in sport. Government was lacking in material and expertise. USSASA had to build the Department. At this stage teachers at schools should be left to organise sport in schools. The Western Cape had not presented on the matter of leases and what was being done to deal with the problems.
Limpopo Department of Sports, Arts and Culture briefing
Mr M Rapholo (Head of Department) explained the co-ordinating structure for 2010. The benefit of hosting events in Limpopo was the fact that the province had borders with three different countries. Furthermore, there was such a big backlog of facilities in the province that 2010 would enable them to build much needed facilities. Treasury had yet to be clear about funding. Regarding sports development; they were opening an academy in conjunction with the Department of Education. There was a meeting to be held regarding school sport and to find a mechanism to cooperate. Regarding the BRSA, the Department of Provincial and Local Government (DPLG) had failed because they had transferred the funds to structures without capacity and passion. There was a need to review the legislation and local government had to demarcate areas for recreation. Very few people were participating in sport. The 2010 World Cup in the province had to be used to promote a general interest in sport and not just soccer. [Please see attached presentation.]
The Chairperson asked if the Department had checked the municipalities for progress on sport facilities.
Mr Rapholo explained that they had checked three municipalities and all three municipalities had made allocations, which was an improvement from two years ago. In the province there was a huge backlog in areas such as water, housing and electricity. They needed to educate people that sport was very important. Generally there had been an improvement.
The Chairperson said that it was important to note that the improvement was due to the road show that had been hosted by the MEC. Was there a lease problem in the province?
Mr Rapholo said that the problem with leases was a trend nationally. The province had problems and was dealing with them.
The Chairperson said that the Department had to conduct an audit and report back to the Committee. The Minister had to deal with the problem and a written audit would assist in tackling the problem.
Free State Department of Sports, Arts and Culture briefing
Ms R Sempe (Head of Department) said that the province was in the process of setting up different structures to align with the LOC. They would learn from the Western Cape. The delay had been caused by the lack of direction from national office. This had led to the loss of excitement and revenue. They were concentrating on ensuring benefits for the province. There was a good working relationship between the Departments of Sport and Education. A memorandum of understanding had been signed. Regarding the Municipal Infrastructure Grant (MIG), she felt giving funds directly to municipalities was not right. Given the backlogs, the right decisions would not be taken. The matter had to be looked at again. Only two municipalities were making provision for maintenance of facilities. They were having regular meetings with Councillors to try and change this.
The Chairperson asked if provinces had been given a chance to make an input on MIG. The Department would report on that. The Committee supported the Free State Sports Institute. It was the only government institute in the country. They had to take care of it and not turn it into Rand Afrikaans University and the University of Pretoria that prevented access. Private institutions were part of the accessibility problem.
KwaZulu-Natal Department of Sports, Arts and Culture briefing
Ms S Khan (Head of Department) said that there was a committee that had been constituted for 2010. They had committed R45 million for the next three years, which would be put into infrastructure, and capacity building, which would include talent building. Three members of the LOC came from Durban, which made things easier. Municipalities were aware of the implications of leases. Negotiations were ongoing with private clubs to make them accessible. The relationship was not working between the Departments of Education and Sport. There was no collaboration in schools or junior sport. The Department interacted with young children through private clubs, which were outside the domain of schools. There had been difficulty but there was a new Head of Department in Education and a meeting had been planned. Regarding the MIG, there was not a single municipality that had an Integrated Development Plan (IDP) plan for sport facilities. The Department did not have the finance to commit to projects. There was R13 million, which was part of the BRSP to be used for building facilities this year. There was a committee in place that was interacting, monitoring and evaluating. The Department did meet with municipal managers of sports programs as was done in the Western Cape. [Please see attached presentation].
The Chairperson asked about the lease problem. Ms Khan said that they had met with the Professional Soccer League (PSL) Club to discuss the club’s issues with facilities. They did not have a home ground. They were meeting with the municipality to see that land was allocated.
The Chairperson said that leases were a thorn in the side of accessibility.
Mr Mtshali asked for clarity about the R45 million that the Department had set aside. Ms Khan said that these were funds that had been ring-fenced for 2010 projects.
Mr Mtshali asked if the Department was focusing on schools. Ms Khan said that they were running a junior sport program for children. This was when children were participating outside of school clubs.
Mr Mtshali asked where these clubs were. Ms Khan said they were working with different school clubs in different communities in four municipalities in the province.
Mr Mtshali said that in various areas there was no money for school sport. African schools were not being catered for.
Ms Khan explained that they had no control over what went on in schools. The Department of Education had sent out a circular telling schools not to work with any other body except the Department of Education. When the learners left the school space, they then worked with the children.
Mr Mtshali asked for the names of specific clubs. Ms Khan said that after the meeting she would provide the details.
The Chairperson said that after the meeting would be off the record. They were aware of the tension between the MECs. Ms Khan was asked to give examples. Ms Khan said that clubs had been worked with in Marrion Ridge, Clearwater and Umlazi.
Eastern Cape Department of Sports, Arts and Culture
Mr B Mfenyana (Head of Department) said that they had R293 towns but that the information would be forwarded to the Committee. A Ministerial committee had been set up for 2010. The gap had to be closed between the national and provincial Departments. A manager for 2010 would be appointed. Regarding the MIG, they had expressed their reservations. Two out of the province’s 45 municipalities were serious about sport. These were metros, which hoped to get matches in 2010. They were continuing discussions. Regarding sport in schools, areas of jurisdiction clouded matters. There was an ongoing discussion with the Department of Education. They were sending a team to the Free State Sports Institute because they did not have an institute in Port Elizabeth. [Please see attached presentation].
The Chairperson said that the institute in Port Elizabeth had to be careful and not turn into RAU or Tukkies (Rand Afrikaans University and the University of Pretoria).
Mr Mfenyana said that the Department was doing an audit on facilities in the province including ownership. This would be submitted to the Committee.
The Chairperson said it was important to be able to give a document to the Minister that was made up of the facts on facilities and ownership.
Gauteng Department of Sports, Arts and Culture
Ms Modipo explained the leadership approach the Department was taking regarding 2010, and outlined their plan. Mr I Hoff (Chief Director) said that regarding MIG, the definition of a basic facility needed to be looked at. An example was given of the fact that according to the legislation any intermediate facility and above had to be topped up by 30% and more by the Department. They were monitoring the BRSP and they had found that municipalities were applying directly to the DPLG. The province had a policy in place for school sport from seven years ago. This had delivered collaboration instead of competition between the education and sport Departments. They needed to look at the policy again under the new law because there were still some problems. The Department would check the status of R293 and report back to the Committee. [Please see attached presentation].
The Chairperson said that it was important to get everyone involved in the campaign. All South Africans had to have ownership of the 2010 World Cup.
Mpumalanga Department of Sports, Arts and Culture briefing
Mr F Magagula (Head of Department) said that not much work had been done in the province until two weeks ago. A committee had been set up to work on 2010. The province had been under pressure to produce a PSL team and they were using this opportunity to develop players for 2010 through Mayoral games. Leases were a problem in the province and the MEC had given an instruction to audit all the facilities to look at ownership and come up with a plan. School sport was being dealt with through a cluster approach. They were working on a Memorandum of Understanding that would be finalised by the end of June. Regarding MIG, the majority of the municipalities felt that they had more important things to attend to. There was a recommendation that provincial executive councils had to prioritise sport. The province was just not moving forward.
North West Department of Sports, Arts and Culture briefing
The Head of Department was unable to attend the meeting. Mr K Madumo represented the province and stated that it would make a submission before the end of the week.
Department of Provincial and Local Government briefing
Ms M Montwedi (Executive Manager: Municipal Infrastructure Grant) explained the rationale behind the MIG and how the different sectors were meant to engage with the restructuring. The problems were admitted and an explanation of how the DPLG dealt with leases was provided. [Please see attached presentation].
Dr E Schoeman (ANC) commented that the area around the First National Bank (FNB) Stadium in Gauteng suffered from serious urban decay. The Department had to look at the surrounding area and do something when looking at improving the stadium.
The Chairperson said that all the sectors had to come to the same meeting so that everyone was getting the same information. The DPLG had to go around to all the sectors and explain the MIG. The DPLG had to submit a report to the Committee detailing the different municipalities they had visited.
Ms Montwedi said that all the sectors had been invited to workshops. The Chairperson said that the workshops had to be revived and repeated.
Adv Solomons pointed out that one workshop was held in Cape Town and this was for the facilitators and old BRSP Co-ordinators. These things did not come to the heads of Departments. A different report was given to them.
The Chairperson said that a discussion was needed. The DPLG was right to say that they were just the co-ordinators. The MIG would not work on its own. Measures needed to be taken for sport. The MIG had been on the table for two years and more meetings were still needed. The DPLG had to interact with the heads of Departments.
Ms Montwedi said that they accepted the responsibility that they had to share information. A problem was that the sector Departments did not send people who were aware of the issues.
The Chairperson said that whenever the DPLG interacted with the Department they had to involve the heads of Departments.
The meeting was adjourned.
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