Firearm Amnesty: Safety & Security; National Secretariat for Safety & Security & Independent Complaints Directorate: briefing

Meeting report

SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE
11 April 2005
FIREARM AMNESTY: SAFETY AND SECURITY DEPARTMENT BRIEFING; NATIONAL SECRETARIAT FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY, AND INDEPENDENT COMPLAINTS DIRECTORATE: BRIEFING

Chairperson: Kgoshi L Mokoena (ANC, Limpopo)

Documents handed out:
Safety and Security Budget Briefing
Declaration of Firearm Amnesty
National Secretariat for Safety and Security Annual Plan
Departments’ Budget briefing: Vote 24
Government Gazette
Independent Complaints Directorate 2005/06 Strategic Plan and Budget Powerpoint Presentation
Eastern Cape Independent Complaints Directorate Branch PowerPoint Presentation
North West Independent Complaints Directorate Branch PowerPoint Presentation

SUMMARY
The Committee was briefed by the Department for Safety and Security on its budget for 2005/2006, including the strategic direction and medium-term budget for the SA Police Service (SAPS). They also received a presentation requesting approval for a notice to be published in the Government Gazette granting extension of the firearms amnesty programme until 30 June 2005. The National Secretariat for Safety and Security then briefed the Committee on its annual plan and budget for 2005/2006. This included an outline of the Secretariats seven strategic objectives, as well as their corresponding budget figures.

The Members discussed learnerships, issues of equity, delays in dealing with cases and forensics, poor statements and crime intelligence. They also approved the request for the notice to be published in the Gazette.

After the lunchbreak, the Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD) delegation presented its 2005/06 strategic plan and budget. This included an overview of some of its achievements in 2004/05. The delegation then discussed the plans of its three programmes. which were the Administration Programme; the Investigation of Complaints Programme; and the Information Management and Research Programme. The delegation then presented the figures for the 2005/06 budget. The total ICD budget for 2005/06 would, provisionally, be R 49 522 000. Following this, the ICD presented information on the operations of its Eastern Cape and North West branches.

In the discussion that followed, Members enquired about the ICD’s relationship with the Scorpions; under which Department ICD was located; the ICD’s firearms training programme; the ethics of ICD Members; the scope of the Anti-Corruption Command (ACC); the ICD’s rural capacity; the aims of the national workshop to review protocols; the ICD’s public awareness campaign; the ICD staff vacancies in the North West and Mpumulanga; whether ICD conducted intelligence operations; and the extent of the ICD’s cell inspections initiative.

MINUTES

Department Strategic Plan briefing
The Department was represented by Mr Schutte, Division Commander; Ms Mavunla, Senior Superintendent; Mr Siwundla, Division Commander: Logistics; Mr Kruzer, Director General: SAPS Training; Ms Peinaar, Assistant Commander: SAPS Crime Prevention; Mr Sengani, Provincial Commander SAPS: Limpopo; and Mr Moonoo, Head General Investigation: Detective Services. The presentation outlined the strategic direction of the SAPS, covering the period of 2005 – 2010. Strategic priorities for this period were organised crime, serious and violent crime, crimes against women and children, improving basic service delivery, human resource management and budget and resource management. The presentation outlined key initiatives and deliverables of the five main programmes of administration, visible policing, detective services, crime intelligence and protection and security services. There was significant growth of the SAPS budget from 2003 to 2008, and the budget for this year was R28.4 billion. The skills development programme of the SAPS was also addressed.

Discussion
The Chairperson thanked the presenters for including issues that had been raised by the Committee. He said that when visiting provinces, the reception and co-operation from people was wonderful and he hoped to get a similar response from provinces they still had to visit. They would soon be going to KZN for two weeks, but he thought a week would be enough.

Mr A Moseki (ANC) said that there had been progress on the part of SAPS, and they had more to do to meet the standards and requirements that were expected. He asked what risks were referred to under the category of risk management. Equity was not confined to race and gender, but also included other target groups that needed to be attended to and referred to the entire process of transformation. One bullet dealt with finalising 70% of outstanding cases, and one of the issues that constituents mentioned was a delay in the resolution of cases, particularly in rural areas. In these areas, many people were unemployed and could not afford to travel long distance to appear for cases that last for many months. They end up not attending court dates, resulting in the case being dismissed. He suggested that SAPS be more ambitious and target for more than 70% and that the witnesses receive more financial assistance. There were some empty spaces in the key deliverables section where the target was to maintain or increase for 2005/06, and Mr Moseki asked that those areas be expanded.

Mr Z Ntuli (ANC) said that the request to spend two weeks in KZN made sense because it was an expansive and highly populated province, so the areas they were to visit were widely scattered. The budget indicated that the most funds would be allocated to visible policing, but in the provinces, it seemed that more resources were given to investigations and detectives instead. Mr Ntuli asked whether the budget travelled down to the police stations to follow the spending trends indicated. The budget for the Community Police Forums (CPF) was not available, so he asked if there was specific funding for CPFs in the provinces.

Mr D Worth (DA) said that payments for capital assets, such as equipment and machinery, were supposed to increase for the next two years and then decrease in the third year. He asked if the Department planned to maintain that level of spending and anticipated that most of the equipment would be replaced by the third year. It seemed that there was no security in magistrates’ courts, and the Minister for Safety and Security said that this was not SAPS’ job. Since the Department of Justice had no security force, he asked whose job it was to secure those courts.

Ms F Nyanda (ANC) said that it took a long time to get medical results for rape cases and asked for information on that.

Mr Ntuli said that it had been suggested that civilians be employed to do administrative work, so that trained police officers would be free to do their jobs and asked what was happening with that.

Mr Moseki said that the Department was doing a good job of addressing some of the challenges of skills development and asked if there was a lot of interest from the community in initiatives such as learnerships and in what areas people were being trained through those learnerships. Other departments that had advertised learnerships had received a huge response.

Mr Schutte said that the SAPS must have a risk plan for its total environment, including financial and operational risks. An internal audit had compiled a risk register looking at risk impacts and financial consequences and provided to all people in SAPS in order to manage risks according to that register. Not all of the indicators listed comprehensively represented all performance aspects, but did cover certain aspects. In terms of finalising 70% of disciplinary cases, strategic management and HR had felt that this was a sufficient number to try to resolve in the first year of this MTEF, and it may be progressively increased. More money was being spent on crime prevention and the station police environment than on the detective environment. The budget of R80 million for crime prevention services was being spent on Community Police Forums in the station environment for all services that may be needed.

Mr Moonoo said that because there were less detectives than visible police officers, it might look like they had a bigger budget. The cases to be finalised were meant to refer to disciplinary cases. For other delayed cases in court, SAPS was trying to ensure that cases were fully investigated before the court date, so that they were not postponed repeatedly. The examination of rape victims was done in the district, but DNA analysis was done by the central forensic science laboratory. There was a backlog of cases because they were not prioritised, so all cases were forwarded to the laboratory and examined as they came in. There was now a mechanism in place for investigating officers to indicate that priority should be given in cases where there was already a suspect in order to finalise these cases quickly. Other cases would also get attention, as they were employing more personnel at the laboratory in this financial year.

Mr Sengani said that at the station level, there were few detectives and more visible police officers because SAPS was trying to promote proactive policing rather than reactive policing. Detectives worked as individuals so it might seem that they had more resources, whereas in visible policing, officers worked as a group. There was no special vote in the budget to cover the CPFs because it was a voluntary service, but the crime prevention budget was wide enough to cover the costs of special programmes, such as the CPF. In the past, CPF officials felt they should be treated and equipped as police officers, but the budget only covered the equipment they needed and the costs of activities they were involved in, such as meetings. SAPS did not want to have a special vote for CPFs in order to avoid having them compete with officials on the ground. The police had court orderlies in courts and helped with the administration of court processes, such as fingerprinting, keeping the presiding officers safe and guarding prisoners locked up in court cells. Securing court premises was the responsibility of the Department of Justice.

Ms Peinaar said that the crime prevention budget for the visible policing programme made provision for the operational response division and the crime prevention division. The operational resources provided for in that budget were used by other divisions in the police services, such as the Air Wing and Intelligence. SAPS was involved in an inter-departmental team that was led by the National Prosecuting Authority and included Health and Social Development to try to streamline services for victims of rape. They were trying to incorporate this into their victim support programmes to develop centres where all victim services were provided in one place, linking health professionals, victim support professionals, police investigators and special prosecutors from the court services.

Mr Kruzer said their broad equity plan included people with disabilities, and in places like labs, call centres and offices, there were specific gender, race and disability quotas to ensure compliance with targets. There were internal and external learnerships, but SAPS’ primary focus was on internal learnerships to address the issue of scarce skills, like forensic qualifications. They also had to ensure that their trainers had the proper qualifications, so they had learnerships to ensure that trainers reached the requirements necessary. The new learnership to be established in this year was for drivers licences, this initiative would include external people. It would also target disadvantaged populations, because many of these groups did not have access to drivers’ licences. They were developing this programme with the Transport SETA and expected to have many applications. With the driver qualification, learnership recipients could then apply to the police basic training programme itself. Other occupations lacking equity were bomb disposal experts, internal auditors and psychologists, so there were internal learnerships to address these areas. External programmes were mainly the internships, for which SAPS went through the Department of Labour to find people with technical skills who were unable to get jobs without practical experience. Following the completion of the internships, most of these people were able to find jobs in SAPS. They were also taking people with appropriate HR qualifications, and demand was quite high. SAPS’ basic training programme followed the same lines as a learnership and created a large number of jobs even though it was not officially registered as such.

Mr Schutte said that the decrease in expenditure on machinery was meant to sustain the baseline, but there would also be some decrease in capital expenditure on communications systems and certain projects would be ending. The budget figure could be amended over time, but the level indicated was meant to sustain the budget. SAPS had been appointing civilian employees to assist with various functions, including administration. The programme of diverting administration to civilian employees had now been stabilised, so the current level of employees would be maintained. There was a resource establishment plan in place, which stipulated certain performance standards, such as numbers of employees at the station conducting certain functions.

Mr Siwundla said that it was hard to recruit technical people because of the high salaries being paid in the private sector and lack of availability of these employees. Providing learnerships for people straight out of school, however, helped with recruiting them into SAPS.

The Chairperson asked whether they felt that the SAPS was winning in the fight against organised crime. He also asked if they were conducting intelligence, as there was some tension between SAPS and the National Intelligence Agency (NIA). In the Presidential Protection Units (PPUs), there were issues with promotions. In Cape Town particularly, some Members had been employed for years without promotion. This was an issue that needed to be dealt with or it would be raised with the Minister on 24 May. At times, prisoners were being released because the statements that detectives collected were too weak. It seemed that there was an effort to train detectives to take better statements and investigate more thoroughly, and this was necessary. The Chairperson said that the presentation was very good, spoke to the relevant issues and costed each item. It was shown that there was money for maintenance, but in their oversight visits, the Committee was told that the buildings were becoming dilapidated because SAPS was waiting for Public Works to fix problems. The Chairperson asked where the victim friendly units would be built, because even in areas where there was not much crime, there was a need for this type of facility. There were many cases of men taking the lives of their families and themselves, and he suggested that it might be because men feel threatened by women becoming more empowered. He asked what could be done about it and why it occurred. There was also a problem of moonlighting by Members, which may have been caused by Members trying to make up for meagre salaries, but there should be some effort to try to curb it. He asked if they were getting assistance from the Department of Home Affairs to conduct border control, because there was a problem with officials receiving bribes. There was also a complaint in the Free State about delays in receiving forensic results.

Mr Ntuli asked how the Department saw itself participating in the Expanded Public Works Programme (EPWP).

Mr Maseki said that it was clear that the delays with DNA evidence were very frustrating and that the process should be decentralised to speed it up. He asked where they were with this recommendation and if it had been included in this budget or if they had developed another way to speed up the process. A number of cases were dismissed or delayed for various other reasons as well, including overcrowded cells and witnesses not coming to court dates. The Department had done a very good job, but this was a critical area that needed to be taken into account in the budget, and if they did not have the funds to address these issues, that needed to be looked into.

Mr M Mzizi (IFP) said that the issue of poor statements had been raised in the past. He was happy to see that there were plans to empower the investigators to take better statements, but it was insufficient to just educate them better. When the investigators took statements, it may be in an indigenous language, and problems arose in the translation, so there was a need to invest in improving language proficiency. He asked who entered into agreement in a plea bargains and whether it was a senior person who knew the case in depth or was it a junior officer who might not be as knowledgeable.

Mr Moonoo said that they were winning against organised crime. They had investigated 209 criminal groupings in the last year, and the statistics on arrests were available in the annual report. The SAPS had a crime intelligence division which assisted in the gathering of intelligence for criminal cases and would be tasked to do what was required by the investigating officer. He could not comment on the relationship between NIA and SAPS. There was a problem with the statements being taken, so they had initiated a programme to improve quality. There was a two-day statement taking programme for Members in high crime and Presidential stations and a two-week interviewing technique programme for all detectives. There was already an improvement in the quality of statements and this programme was now being rolled-out to other stations in the provinces. In plea bargaining, the docket was taken to the prosecutor and the defence could decide to save time by entering into a plea bargain, but there was no involvement of the police.

Ms Peinaar said that they wanted every station to have facilities for victims to be interviewed in private. ‘Victim friendly facilities’ were different from victim centres, which were run by Social Development and were set up separately from police stations for providing information and counselling. The police station facilities were not intended to be used as counselling facilities, but could be used by volunteers giving information and assistance to victims. The SAPS was first looking at older stations where there was no space available to set up a room and equipment to be used. They asked the provinces to identify which stations urgently needed these upgrades and formed a priority list based on that. There were 70 upgrades currently in progress and every year they would try to add more based on the budget. Many of the upgrades were also being assisted by businesses, NGOs or other government departments. The issue of family murders was very difficult to answer because SAPS had not done any specific research on it. In most cases, the first time they found out about problems was once the murder had already happened, but in cases where there was a history of violence, police would have a role to play in confiscating firearms. When a case was reported, SAPS dealt with it in terms of criminal justice, but also referred those involved for family support services. They also had internal support services to assist Members with family problems. Most often, it was difficult for SAPS to get involved because the first indication of trouble was after the murder had already taken place.

Mr Kruzer said that they had done a complete analysis of the problem with statements, and it was clear that the problems lay both with detectives and uniformed personnel. They had developed on-the-job training and were now conducting impact studies that indicated that the training was making a positive difference. The SAPS was developing new crime intelligence programmes and the SETAs dealing with intelligence were going to merge to encompass all of the intelligence organisations, which should decrease tension. The question of promotions in the PPUs would be referred to the Division Commander so that he could respond in writing. There were problems with promotions, but there had also been progress. The Cape Town PPU unit was a national unit, unlike other PPUs, which meant that there was less opportunity for promotion there.

Mr Siwundla said that day-to-day maintenance rested with the station concerned, so if the station commander found problems, he could take quotations and get it repaired. In previous years, there had been a cumbersome process, but authority had been given to station commanders to handle to day-to-day issues of less than R5 000. Since the inception of the EPWP, SAPS had been working with Public Works to ensure that, if possible, anyone who was employed in building new stations would be from the vicinity. They would have to follow up on making this an official link with Public Works.

Ms Mavunla said that they were concentrating the victim friendly facilities on Presidential stations and priority stations, but were not leaving out small stations or those not impacted by much crime. As a woman, she felt that killings were based on mens’ feelings of inferiority, and were associated with physical and spiritual family violence. It was difficult to pick up on these trends, but within SAPS, they had an Employment Assistance Programme for Members.

Mr Sengani said that they must deal with problems between Crime Intelligence and NIA. It was clear that the police mandate was only for intelligence dealing with crime, and NIA dealt with threats against the country. If this was not acceptable, the mandate must be changed. Cases were not only weak because of weak statements, and detectives and prosecutors must have a dialogue before cases were tabled in court. They must work together at the station level, so that if the prosecutor found gaps, they could be dealt with there. In terms of murders, men felt challenged and saw no alternative, so the government and the police must go on the ground and talk to them. It was not only Home Affairs that took bribes at the borders, but also police, and all involved in this must be arrested. The problem was that one department wanted to deal with operations alone, but if they worked together, they would limit the problems.

Mr Schutte said that crime intelligence had received a significant budget increase of 24%. The Protection and Security Services programme was broken down into specific and separate functions, which would help to enhance promotion opportunities within each function. Some forensic capabilities were being created on a regional level, particularly in the Western Cape and KZN, which was included in this budget, but decentralisation could not be done all at once.

Mr Moseki said that better service was also a question of strengthening capacity on a national level and asked if SAPS was working on that while moving towards decentralisation.

Mr Schutte said that forensics was included in the budget, and that the EU provided donor funds to develop a DNA database.

Mr Moonoo said that in the past they could not increase forensic capacity due to limited accommodation, but they had acquired new premises for the forensic science laboratory. They had also opened more posts to employ more people.

Mr Kruzer said that they were focussing on this as a scarce skills project because they had lost a lot of forensics employees. They were providing a special allowance and were developing learnerships to try to retain those employees. In terms of police moonlighting, they had taken the initiative to change the way shifts were allocated, which should help to curb the problem, but the planned salary increases would also help.

Mr Schutte said that there was an internal process looking at moonlighting and that it should be very controlled. People should be allowed to do some other things, but it should be subject to conditions and was undesirable on the part of SAPS. They were putting R3 billion into salaries over three years, which should bring about significant change.

The Chairperson said that he had received a faxed complaint about some problems with police and would submit that to SAPS for a response before the 24^th of May.

Department briefing on Firearms Amnesty
Mr Philip Jacobs, from Legal Services, SAPS Crime Operations, presented the request for approval of a notice in the Gazette for an extension of the firearms amnesty. The amnesty that ended on 31 March 2005 had been highly successful, but the Forearms Control Act did not allow for its extension. The Minister must issue a new notice in order to extend it and the criteria for doing so had been met. The extension would be valid until 30 June 2005 under the same conditions and terms as the previous amnesty.

Discussion
Mr Mzizi said that those who wanted to turn themselves in would do so, but that people wanted to remain anonymous. He moved to accept the request.

The Chairperson asked for someone to second the motion. In his area, people were saying that because of the questions they were being asked in police stations, they would not want to turn in weapons for fear of being prosecuted in a crime.

Ms Nyanda said that she was concerned that nothing had been done in Mpumalanga about handing over weapons.

Mr Mzizi said that these issues with the amnesty programme should not determine whether the request was approved. They should approve it based on whether the extension itself was valuable.

The Chairperson said that the other issues were for the Department to take care of, and Ms Nyandas concerns should be noted by the Department. The Committee should meet with the Department to come up with ways to improve the campaign.

Mr Moseki said that he seconded the proposal that they agree to the request.

The Chairperson said that the Committee agreed to the request and that their report would indicate that approval.

National Secretariat for Safety and Security briefing
The National Secretariat for Safety and Security was represented by Mr Rasegatla, the Secretary for Safety and Security, and Mr Soman, the Director of Legal Services. The presentation outlined the Secretariats efforts to align the Departments programme of Action with the People’s Social Contract, the President’s State of the Nation Address and the oversight programme of the Committee. The Secretariats strategic objectives were social crime prevention, monitoring and evaluation of the SAPS, organic transformation, legal services, policy, research and development, communication and liaison and corporate services.

Mr Soman outlined the Secretariats budget, including budget detail for each of the seven programme objectives in the annual plan, as well as the budget for Ministerial interaction with the public through Imbizos, the Office of the Secretary, and management and administration. The total budget for the Secretariat was R17.8 million.

Discussion
Mr Mzizi said that the Secretariat had spoken about transformation and trust He asked how they could transform an organisation without trust. In an oversight visit to the Free State, there was an indication information was leaking out of the SAPS to prosecutors along racial lines. For example, if one racial section of the community was arrested, the prosecutor was informed. If people trusted one another, there would be transformation, so Mr Mzizi asked how far they were with transformation. The Secretariat also spoke about monitoring the policy on anti-police killing and he asked how far they were with that and what was being done to prevent police killings. Since the Secretariat also dealt with complaints, he asked if there was any overlap with Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD).

Mr Moseki asked how the safer schools campaign related to the Adopt-a-Cop campaign. Within the context of transformation and the Equity Act, he asked for the Secretariats gender balance.

Mr Worth asked what areas the Minister would identify for Ministerial visits.

The Chairperson asked how the Secretariat was marketing itself with the public.

Mr Rasegatla said that they had been focussing on their work at the expense of marketing to the public. It had become clear, however, that this lack of marketing made it harder for them to do their work. Their mandate was to ensure that the relationship between the police and the community improved, so the community needed to know who the Secretariat was, what they were doing and where they could be found. This was the first time that they had a budget for this type of thing, and apologised that thus far not much had been done. The Secretariat was dominated by men, but a number of senior posts were vacant, so they planned to improve racial and gender equity when filling them. The Safer Schools Campaign and Adopt-a-Cop were different programmes but were intended to ensure that the teaching and learning environment was safe and secure. Schools could adopt a cop, which was meant to ensure that the community appreciated and understood the police services better by working closely with them. The same officer also attend to the security needs of the school. There were a number of different activities being monitored and assisted under the Safer Schools Campaign that were all meant to secure the teaching and learning environment across the country. The anti-police killing programme was intended to inform communities that an attack on a police officer was an attack on the community. Police officers had to be valued as people who were making the lives of community Members better. Communities needed to take part in ensuring that police officers were safe and that perpetrators were dealt with. The rate of suicide in SAPS was a concern and a study needed to be done to see what issues were contributing to it.

Mr Soman said that the Minister decided on the areas he was going to visit. When he informed the Secretariat, an advance party was sent to engage and prepare the community. The decision was not made by the Secretariat, but the Minister himself. The mandate of the ICD was to investigate misconduct by Members of the SAPS. The complaints received by the Secretariat included complaints about promotions and dismissals, and the Secretariat conducted its own investigations in order to make recommendations about procedure and policy. This related to the issue of transformation in terms of ensuring that procedures were followed properly. The ICD, however, investigated serious allegations of misconduct in police activities. The Minister could refer matters to the Secretariat to investigate, but the intention was not to overlap or compete with the ICD.

Mr Rasegatla said that the issue of transformation without trust was a difficult one. They were emerging from a racial past that had ramifications on trust, and this was the history in the entire justice system and in society as a whole. It was unclear whether the slow change was because of a lack of trust, but the government had very clear policies about transformation, so how people conducted themselves in terms of those principles would determine how much transformation would take place. Trust was not just a racial issue, so all colleagues had to be honest and work as a collective.

Mr Soman said that in transformation, one had to look at the underlying value of the constitution, which was essentially the value of human dignity. If a complaint was made against the SAPS, it was preferable that the Secretariat could investigate it as an independent body, instead of the police, an this went some way towards addressing the question of trust.

The Chairperson said that it was not a simple question. This was the first time that the Secretariat had addressed the committee, and they would have to come again.

Mr Rasegatla said that it was encouraging to know that their activities were supported by the Committee.

Independent Complaints Directorate briefing
Ms K McKenzie (ICD Executive Director) began by outlining the ICD’s mandate, which was to investigate deaths in police custody; investigate deaths due to police action; investigate criminal offenses, misconduct and corruption committed by police Members; and ensure that the Domestic Violence Act (DVA) was implemented. She also outlined the key frameworks that would guide the ICD in the medium-term, these were: performance, service delivery, accountability, ethics and integrity.

Mr E Valoyi (ICD Director: Administration) then discussed the ICD’s Administration Programme. It was responsible for the overall management and organisation of the ICD. This included undertaking human resource management; the internal audit; supply chain management; security management; and financial management. Administration was also responsible for offering bursaries to employees to further their studies. Furthermore, various courses were offered to employees to improve their work related skills.

Mr Valoyi then highlighted that the ICD had a staff complement of 186 employees in 2004/05. This would be increased to 203 in 2005/06. Of the ICD’s staff, 37% were situated at its Head Office in Gauteng. Mr Valoyi then highlighted that in 2004/05, six ICD staff Members had been charged with misconduct, four with misusing state vehicles, and one with falsifying qualifications. Mr Valoyi then discussed the challenges that the Administration Programme would confront in 2005/06. These included implementing the supply chain management, implementing a human resources development plan, reducing vacancy levels, and addressing skills scarcities in the Mpumulanga and Eastern Cape ICD offices

Mr T Tshabalala (ICD Director: Investigation of Complaints) then discussed the ICD’s Investigation of Complaints Programme. This Programme was responsible for: investigating deaths in police custody; investigating deaths due to police action; investigating cases of misconduct, corruption or criminal offenses committed by the police; and strengthening the integrity and ethics of the ICD.

Mr Tshabala then provided an overview of the Investigation of Complaints achievements in 2004/05. These included undertaking a number of high profile cases in Harrismith, Smithfield, Katlehong and Witdraai. Other achievements in 2004/05 were: the ACC had been established; ICD staff had been trained to handle firearms in terms of the new Act; the United Kingdom’s Metropolitan Police had been seconded to advise the ACC; and the integrity plan had been strengthened, with the appointment of an integrity manager. He then outlined some of the Programme’s priorities for 2005/06. These were: staff training, which included the developing a training manual and a learnership programme; expanding stakeholder management; improving the profile of the ACC; and establishing a hotline. Some of the challenges that the Programme would face were case backlogs and a protocols review.

Mr M Dlamini (ICD Director: Information Management and Research) discussed the Information and Management Programme. Its main tasks were processing new complaints, conducting research, monitoring the implementation of the DVA; and undertaking cell inspections. He then noted that the number of cases registered with the ICD, in 2004/05, had decreased by 2%, when compared to 2003/04. Approximately 95% of these cases had been captured and processed on the ICD’s database with 48 hours of them being reported. Mr Dlamini then stated that in 2005/06 the Programme would be undertaking proactive oversight. This would involve establishing a fully fledge research unit; conducting cell inspections; and conducting station audits.

Ms E Verster (ICD Chief Financial Officer) outlined the ICD’s 2005/06 budget. The total budget for the ICD would be R49 522 000, which was an increase of 17.59% from 2004/05. This money would be allocated to the ICD’s three Programmes. These allocations were:
- the Administration Programme would receive R15 559 000;
- the Investigation of Complaints Programme would receive R23 149 000;
- and the Information Management and Research Programme would receive R10 814 000.
Ms Verster then provided a provincial breakdown of ICD’s 2005/06 budget. Gauteng, KwaZulu/Natal, the Western Cape and the Eastern Cape would receive the bulk of the budget.

Ms P Badi (ICD Provincial Head: Eastern Cape) then discussed the operations of the Eastern Cape ICD branch. She explained that the ICD regularly undertook community outreach projects in the Eastern Cape in order to publicise its work. The Eastern Cape ICD also trained police in the province to implement the DVA. She then outlined some of the major cases that the ICD had undertaken in the Eastern Cape, these included the Izele Police Station case and the Theko Springs case. Some of the challenges facing the ICD in the Eastern Cape included: the high rate of domestic violence; certain police stations did not submit progress reports; a lack of resources in police stations; and some stations did not keep domestic violence registers.

Mr M Sesoko (ICD Provincial Head: North West Province) then discussed the ICD operations in the North West Province. This included providing a brief overview of the ICD structures in the North West. He then outlined some of the high profile cases that the North West ICD had investigated, which included the Klerksdorp racist and assault case that had involved a super-intendant. He also stated that the North West ICD was responsible for cell inspections; monitoring the implementation of the DVA; and community outreach programmes. Some of the challenges facing the North West branch were: some police stations failed to provided reports on incidents of noncompliance with the DVA; late reporting by some police stations of deaths in custody or through police action; and failures to submit progress reports.

Discussion
Mr D Worth (DA, Free State) commented that it was unfortunate that the Committee could not be provided with the exact figures regarding the number of cases investigated by the ICD. As it stood, the Committee was unsure what the percentage figures represented in real numbers.

Mr Z Ntuli (ANC, Kwazulu-Natal) enquired whether there was a relationship between the Scorpions and the ICD.

Ms McKenzie answered that the Scorpions referred corruption cases, that involved individual police Members, to the ICD. This was due to the fact that the Scorpions focused on investigating cases where police Members were systematically involved in organised crime: smaller cases were handled by the ICD. She also noted that when the Scorpions had an incident involving the death of a suspect in their custody, they requested the ICD to investigate it. The ICD undertook the investigation even though, officially, it had no mandate over the Scorpion’s staff.

Mr Ntuli asked under which Department was the ICD located. Ms McKenzie replied that the ICD was situated under the Department of Safety and Security.

Mr Ntuli enquired whether the ICD would accompany Members on visits to police stations in their constituencies. Ms McKenzie answered that the ICD would accompany Members on visits to police stations.

Mr A Moseki (ANC, North West) noted that there appeared to be a problem with ethics in the ICD. He enquired whether the ICD had trained and informed Members about the ethics required, when working for the ICD.

Ms McKenzie replied that there was not a problem with ethics in the ICD. The ICD had initiated an ethics programme after studying other institutions that had a similar mandate to the ICD. The emphasis on ethics was to ensure that the integrity of the ICD was beyond reproach.

Mr Moseki enquired about the scope of the ACC’s work.

Mr Tshabala responded that the ACC investigated corruption cases only. However, these tended to be cases involving relatively small amounts of money, as the Scorpions investigated corruption cases involving substantial amounts of money. Ms McKenzie added that the ACC would be undertaking proactive operations in the future.

Mr Moseki enquired if the ICD had a public awareness programme.

Mr Dlamini replied that the ICD had a public awareness campaign. Indeed, each of the ICD provincial offices undertook twelve community outreach projects per year. In 2005/06 this would be increased to fifteen.

Mr Moseki commented that the operations of the ICD appeared to be very centralised, which meant that perhaps rural areas were being neglected. What was the ICD doing to address this? He also asked whether the ICD had enough staff to cover all the areas in South Africa. He believed that perhaps the ICD lacked capacity.

Mr Moseki noted that there seemed to be a problem with some police stations keeping a register of complaints, in terms of violations of the DVA. He asked why they were not keeping these registers. Was it deliberate or due to a lack of capacity?

Mr S Shiceka (ANC, Gauteng) questioned whether the scope of the ICD was limited to investigating. Could the ICD arrest and detain suspects, in terms of the Criminal Procedure Act? He had asked this question because he knew of a case in Gauteng were a metro policeman had shot two children. The police had initially refused to arrest the individual. The ICD then arrested the individual and took him to the Hiedelberg police station. He appeared in court the following day but was released, as the judge had stated that correct procedures had not been followed during the arrest.

Mr Shiceka asked what the ICD’s firearms training programme entailed. The Chairperson also enquired whether the ICD was training police officers to use firearms. He then observed that some individuals in the police services had been declared unfit to use firearms. What was the ICD proposing to do with these individuals?

Ms Mckenzie noted that the ICD only trained ICD Members, not policemen. ICD Members were being trained on, and according to, the new legislation. The nature of the investigative work of the ICD also meant that Members needed to know how to ensure that a firearm was safe before sending it for ballistics testing. Added to this, the ICD investigators also carried firearms as they often entered dangerous areas.

Mr Shiceka enquired about the goals of the national workshop, which aimed to review the existing protocols of the ICD, the South African Police Services (SAPS) and the Directorate of Public Prosecutors (DPP).

Ms McKenzie replied that the ICD had protocols with key stakeholders, such as the SAPS and DPP. These guided the way that the ICD did its work. The protocols also defined the responsibilities of both the ICD and the SAPS, when the ICD was conducting investigations into the actions of SAPS Members. At times, these protocols had to be reviewed as there were regular changes in legislation that effected the relationship between the ICD, SAPS and the DPP. The national workshop also strengthened stakeholder management

Ms F Nyanda (ANC, Mpumulanga) enquired about the four cases of misuse of state vehicles, which had been discussed by ICD. Were these cases related to police Members or ICD staff?

Ms McKenzie replied that the four cases related to ICD staffmembers.

The Chairperson delegation stated that due to a lack of suitable candidates, the ICD had failed to fill some of the staffing posts in the Northern Cape and Mpumulanga. He enquired why this was the situation and what type of posts were vacant.

Ms McKenzie responded that the ICD had not filled some investigator posts in the Northern Cape and Mpumulanga. She added that the ICD required people who had experience in the police force or the legal system. Unfortunately, when the posts were advertised, in these two provinces, there was a lack of suitable candidates. The ICD was attempting to address this problem through implementing a learnership initiative, which would train people to full the posts.

The Chairperson enquired if the ICD conducted intelligence operations. Mr Tshabala responded that the ICD did not have an intelligence capacity.

The Chairperson asked about the ICD’s initiative to encourage police Members to report cases of sexual harassment. Ms McKenzie responded that the ICD integrity trainer would be responsible for conducting a training programme on sexual harassment.

The Chairperson asked how often the ICD conducted cell inspections. Ms McKenzie responded that the ICD conducted twelve cell inspections in each of provinces per year.

The Chairperson noted that unfortunately the time allocated to the ICD had been limited. He stated that he wanted the ICD to return later in the year to provide the Committee with a comprehensive briefing.

The meeting was adjourned.