Expanded Public Work Programme and Strategic Planning: hearing

Meeting report

PUBLIC WORKS PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
19 October 2004
EXPANDED PUBLIC WORK PROGRAMME AND STRATEGIC PLANNING: HEARING

Chairperson: Mr F Bhengu (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Free State briefing
Limpopo briefing
KwaZulu-Natal Department of Transport briefing
North West briefing

SUMMARY
The Committee shared information with Members of the Executive Committee (MECs) and provincial Chairpersons of Public Works Committees on strategic planning and the Expanded Public Work Programme (EPWP), a nation-wide programme drawing significant numbers of the unemployed into productive work. The Free State, Limpopo and North West Provinces' Departments gave brief presentations on their experiences with the EPWP, outlining the background, institutional arrangements, challenges, business and future plans. The KwaZulu-Natal Department of Transport also discussed their labour absorptive programmes, which were based on the Road to Wealth and Job Creation Initiative first tabled in 1998.

After each presentation, the floor raised questions, particularly regarding the sustainability of the jobs being created, co-ordination and integration of different government departments in the implementation of the EPWP, the gender ratio in job creation, and about problems associated with the compilation of an asset register.

MINUTES
The Chairperson invited all the provinces to give a briefing on their co-ordination plan, and to discuss the co-operation between the National and Provincial Department. The municipalities also had to be taken into account, because co-ordination at that level was particularly important for the EPWP.

The Chairperson pointed out that the Committee had been presented with the Department's Strategic Plan earlier in the year. At a workshop on the Department's activities and future plans, they had looked into administrative problems and the co-ordination between the Committee and the Department. The Committee workshop had commissioned a report that would be presented to the House. Hence the input of all the provinces on this matter was crucial.

Free State briefing
Mr Z Jacobs, Acting Chief Director of Public Works; Mr M Seiso, MEC of Public Works, and Mr S Maganedisa, Deputy Director of Organisational Development, gave a presentation on the province's EPWP. For successful implementation, there needed to be full co-operation between the Departments of Public Works, Transport, Social Development, Tourism, Economic and Environmental Affairs, and so Sector EPWP Management Committees had been established. A provincial Steering Committee, comprised of provincial departments and district municipalities, had also been formed. The preliminary figures in the draft business plan estimated that 17 340 jobs had been created in the current financial year. On 28 September 2004, the Provincial EPWP had been launched. Challenges facing the EPWP were the fostering of co-ordination, provision of more training, and an increased focus on monitoring and evaluation.

Discussion
The Chairperson invited Members to raise any issues that had not been addressed by the Provincial Department, but said the full discussion would only follow in the afternoon session after all the provinces had given their presentations.

Ms M Ntuli (ANC) enquired about the audit.

Mr S Opperman (DA) asked whether they could indicate the kind of budget they were working with. Knowing about the lack of jobs in the different provinces, would help Members to assess the impact of the programme.

Mr M Seiso answered that the Provincial Department of Public Works had set aside R52 million to implement the EPWP and was currently trying to get financial contributions from other departments. When they had started the process, reports by various provincial departments had been submitted, some without budgets or the number of jobs being created. Thus accurate figures could not be provided at this stage.

Mr R Tsikwe, Chairperson of Roads, Public Work and Transport of the Northern Cape, asked if a partnership with the private sector had been established. Mr M Seiso replied that they were currently revising the Free State Development Plan, which envisioned building a strong economy and defined the role of the private sector. He agreed that more work was needed to find suitable partners.

Mr J Blanche (DA) expressed his concerns about the recent publication of job losses within the mine and gold industry due to partnerships. He asked if there was any discussion between the local government and mining sector in the Free State. Mr M Seiso answered that sufficient discussion between the two had not yet taken place.

Mr Y Howard, MEC Public Works of the North West, asked whether there were any partnerships with farmers to assist with job creation. Mr M Seiso replied that the Department of Agriculture was in discussion with farmers and they had established projects to tackle the problem of unemployment.

Ms M Ntuli (ANC) enquired about conflicts between national and provincial assets. Mr M Seiso conceded that, with regard to the assets register, there were a number of challenges. While it was being dealt with on a national level, many issues still remained unresolved. Concerted action among provinces was needed.

Limpopo province briefing
Mr R Shingange, Head of Department, and Mr C Chabane, MEC Works said the following Departments were included: Public Works, Agriculture, Health and Welfare, Finance, and Economic Affairs and Development. There was also a link to the NEDLAC Public Works Committee. They planned to develop Small, Medium and Micro-Enterprises (SMME) contractors in the mechanical industry, manufacture alternative building materials, enhance animal health and production and revitalise irrigation schemes in agricultural projects. The main challenges faced were to foster stakeholder understanding of the conceptual framework of the EPWP, and a shortage of training providers for the various sectors.

Discussion
The Chairperson requested the Limpopo Department to provide further information, pointing out that the document they had handed out was not complete (page 13-21 were missing).

Mr L Maduma (ANC) commented that the provinces should be assisted and the problems they grappled with defined and assessed.

The Chairperson remarked that the danger of building unnecessary structures was due to a lack of financial control over projects.

Mr C Chabane emphasised that the EPWP should not be entirely learnership-based, but rather incorporate the skills of the participants too. The funds for the EPWP were distributed at municipal level, which had improved the projects because local inhabitants were the primary beneficiaries. However, there was still inadequate research into the specific needs of the municipalities.

Ms M Ntuli (ANC) enquired about the timeframes of the programmes. Mr C Chabane replied that some of the projects were already at the implementation stage, while others were still at the research stage. The aim was to meet all the required targets within the next five years in all sectors.

Mr Tsikwe, Chairperson Roads, Public Works and Transport of the Northern Cape, asked how learners who had acquired skills informally, could be integrated into the EPWP.

Mr C Chabane answered that the programme paid particular attention to people who had acquired their skills outside of the formal education system.

Kwazulu-Natal Department of Transport briefing
Dr K Mbanjwa, Head of Department of Transport, Safety and Security, and Mr B Cele, MEC Transport, Safety and Security, gave a presentation on the EPWP as a co-ordinating Department. They highlighted their social development programme, Zimbambele ("doing it for ourselves"), which included labour-intensive road maintenance. It empowered women particularly, who received more than 95% of all contracts. The establishment of 440 saving clubs had facilitated cost-effective supervision and training. Recent evaluation conducted by the University of Cape Town, had shown that Zimbambele had enhanced the standard of living of 96% respondents. The goal of the Department was to increase the present 24 000 Zimbambele contracts to 40 000 by 2009.

Thereafter, the Vukuzakhe ("rise up and build yourself") programme had been introduced, an emerging contractor programme with contractors learning through increased levels of risks and responsibility. The budget allocation for Vakuzakhe was R410 million in 2003/2004. More than 100 000 jobs had been created over the past five years. Furthermore, two new labour-absorptive road construction programmes had been piloted, one specifically prioritising youth. The Department emphasised that over 30% of their budget allocation already complied with the requirements of the EPWP.

Discussion
The representative of the KwaZulu-Natal Department of Transport asked whether they would receive funding from the National Department of Public Works for their programmes, in order to tackle problems such as HIV/AIDS.

Mr L Maduma (ANC) expressed concern that Department assistance might be required in the Vukuzakhe programme when emerging contractors proceeded through the final phase of the programme into the open market.

Mr B Cele answered that when the emerging contractors were able to deal with R5 million projects and hence in the final stage, assistance from the state would cease. The emerging contractors would then be skilled enough to compete in the free market. Last year, R7 million had been invested in training. All the participants in the programme had started at stage one and moved through all the stages.

Mr Z Jacobs, Acting Chief Director of Public Works of the Free State, asked if there were any government employees involved in the programme. Mr B Cele answered that there were no government employees. Nevertheless, the people involved in the project would be held accountable for government funds.

Ms P Sekgobela (ANC) asked when the asset register would be finalised. The representative of the KwaZulu-Natal Department of Transport apologised for being uncertain about when this would be finalised.

North West Province briefing
After the lunch break, Mr Yawa, MEC, gave the background to the province's 'Semelela ("roll up your sleeves and work") Programme' and the institutional arrangements that had been made to roll it out. Dr L Sebego, Head of Public Works Department, then spoke about the challenges that her provincial government faced with regard to the programme. She described a pilot project that was being undertaken, involving the Departments of Agriculture, Water Affairs and Conservation, Roads and Transport, Public Works and the Central District Municipality. It was estimated that 11 000 people (200 households) would benefit from the project, which included the development of a farm equipment store, the production of bricks, the building of a farm access road, the maintenance of a 50 km road reserve, and a household food security project.

Discussion
Mr B Cele (MEC for Transport, Kwazulu-Natal) asked why so few women (12 men to 1 woman in one project and 29 to 9 in another) were being employed in the programme.

Dr Sebego said they had tried to rectify the situation of gender inequality. The pilot project was in a 'typical' SeTswana village where recruitment had been done through the local chief and headman - many reasons had been given why women should not take on the jobs. She admitted said most of the jobs created were labour-intensive and better suited to men. Three women had also dropped out of the progamme.

Mr L Maduma (ANC) said 'fronting' by tendering contractors was very worrying, and wondered how the problem should best be dealt with. They wished to develop Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) companies so that these businesses could become capable of entering the competitive open market.

Dr Sebego said the issue of fronting was a real challenge. North West Province had attempting to deal with the problem by having a Compliance Unit to 'single out' contractors and investigate whether the people on paper knew about the contract for which they had supposedly tendered. They had tried to ensure that the people whose names appeared on the tender document actually attended the advisory or tender information meeting. Training was necessary and as BEE companies should not be 'emerging' forever.

Mr J Blanché (DA) was concerned that the jobs created were not always sustainable. He gave the example of the job of cutting grass along the roadside. In all cities, municipalities were no longer putting money into maintaining verges and perhaps this should be the case in the rural area as well. He congratulated the presenters on the many admirable jobs and skills fostered.

Mr R Tsikwe (Chairperson of the Northern Cape Public Works Committee) said that North West Province was mainly a rural area. What happened in a metropolitan area was not necessarily the same as in a rural area. This type of job needed to be done for people to survive.

Dr Sebego said the aim was to make the previously unemployable people, employable over three to four years. Grass-cutting was a sustainable job in that area. Before 1994, machines had been used for this and now people were being employed. Although it was not much of a skill, at least it helped to put bread on the table. Grass-cutters also helped provide security as fencing along roads had previously been stolen three times. The brick-making project involved more skill and that these people were even making inter-locking bricks.

Mr Blanché asked if the firms making the brick-making machines were involved in the project.

Dr Sebego said different service providers had been approached to assist with training and she mentioned a programme that the MEC was undertaking in this regard.

Another member of the North West delegation said that the grass-cutters were also involved in unblocking drains, as well as reporting on and carrying out repairs to the road surface.

Mr Yawa said the North West Province was 65% rural and they needed to ensure that the land was used for production. The programme was not aimed at making people dependent on the government, but rather to make the people see that they could do things on their own.

Mr Maduma referred to consultants who were charging contractors R400 per hour to assist them with the completion of their tenders, and said BEEs desperatey needed this assistance. He was also concerned that none of the presentations mentioned how the disabled were being assisted with jobs.

The Chairperson then asked how the North West Province was dealing with the issue of asset management.

With regards to the latter, Dr Sebego said they had similar problems to the other provinces. They were trying to make the asset register operational because it was desperately needed for building the province's management system. They were finding many loopholes and there seemed to have been some mismanagement in the past. Nationally, they needed to look at "vesting" and whether this was mainly a problem of the province, national or particular departments, such as Land Affairs. There were many questions regarding property titles. After these had been cleared up, she hoped to have a clear asset register.

On the issue of BEE companies and tender documents, she said that these were complicated and that they were trying to simplify the tender document in terms of language and content. BEE companies needed to be trained in complex financial matters such as the Bills of Quantity. This was where consultants were charging R400 per hour to assist.

The Chairperson said this Committee wanted to engage National Government on the EPWP and needed suggestions as to how this could be done. The Committee would also be visiting the various provinces and wanted to eventually table a report with recommendations, especially with regard to the targets set by the President.

Mr Cele said women's paid labour impacted more on the economics of households. Women should be empowered and included when dealing with issues of poverty alleviation. On the issue of fronting, he said that on their transport database, all contractors were screened and all the people named appear on the tender sheet had to come to a meeting, discuss the contract and agree on the tender as presented. It had been found that black 'Stage Four' contractors were fronting black 'Stage One' contractors. This was because the former did not wish to compete openly. A secure method to screen contractors was essential.

He then spoke about the integration with other departments such as Social Welfare, Health and Education. If they did not collaborate with Public Works, these Departments could give contracts to anyone and would not be fighting for poverty alleviation. Departments were refusing to sign service agreements and this was a huge issue. These departments also had access to extremely large budgets.

Mr L Kgwele (Director and Head of MEC's Office, North West Province) agreed that co-ordination between departments was needed, but this had to start with the National Department of Public Works. He asked why one found small Public Works Departments in all departments

Mr Maduma agreed that there were challenges as funds were allocated to departments. This brought about the further issue of who was responsible for co-ordinating projects. He suggested a national workshop to consider a comprehensive approach to the valuation of national assets.

The MEC for Free State agreed and said that it was wise to meet at a national level from time to time. The greatest challenge appeared to be that of departments working and planning together. Caution was needed because of the timeframes involved and because one wanted quality of work and a large impact. The construction industry would resist the programme as its control was firmly entrenched.

Mr Yawa said it was very difficult to tell which Department's budget should cover particular infrastructure costs. He suggested that maybe at national budgetters should specify this, because it also affected who maintained the infrastructure in the future. The MEC for Kwazulu-Natal agreed that such a workshop would be valuable.

Mr Cele warned against 'mixing powers' between the executives and the legislators. It was good to have co-operation and integration, but that was all it should be.

Mr Blanche was very pleased to hear so much about the asset register. He suggested having three registers: one for clearly identified assets, another for doubtful cases, and a third for lost assets.

Mr S Opperman (DA) said it was important to see that there was a two-pronged approach. One was delivery and the second was to challenge communities on their responsibilities. Unemployment was an enormous problem and the EPWP would only touch on its fringes.

The meeting was adjourned.