Finalisation of the Steering Committee membership (with Deputy Minister)

Meeting report

The Chairperson confirmed that there were more than 15 Members present so the meeting could start. She noted that the Caucus meets monthly, on the last Thursday of each month. She thanked the Members that were able to join, as she was aware that the majority of Members had oversight duties today.

She welcomed everyone, including Ms Judith Nemadzinga-Tshabalala, Deputy Minister of Employment and Labour.

Ms Nomaxhosa Mooi, Committee Secretary, noted the apologies of eleven Members.

Consideration of first term programme

Ms Thembakazi Mpapela, Content Advisor, took the Caucus through its programme. The programme starts with today’s session, which is 27 February 2025. The purpose of this session is to adopt the programme and announce the steering committee Members.

The steering committee will meet on 5 March 2025 to review the legacy report of the 6th Parliament and propose focus areas for the 7th Parliament. This will be a physical meeting.

The Caucus will then have a full session on 6 March 2025. This will basically be an induction session for Members to understand the Caucus's mandate and focus areas (similar to the session that will be held on 5 March). It will also be a physical meeting.

The Chairperson thanked Ms Mpapela for presenting the programme. She invited Members to comment.

Ms M Dlamini (ANC) sought clarity on the date 10 December 2024 written at the bottom of the programme. She asked if it was an error or if it was the date the programme was drafted. Other than that, she moved for the programme's adoption.

Ms B Machi (IFP) seconded the programme's adoption. She noticed that the meetings of 5 and 6 March will be in the afternoon. She asked if transport could be provided, considering that the Members might miss the buses.

The Chairperson reminded the Members that although the programme might be adopted, certain amendments might be made because of Parliament's work. This will always be communicated to Members. She requested a formal motion to adopt the programme.

Ms M Modise-Mpya (ANC) moved for the programme's adoption; Ms S Xego (ANC) seconded this.

The Chairperson noted that there were no objections to the programme. She told Ms Machi that the Committee Secretary would respond to the question of transport. She understood that preparations are made for any activities in the afternoon, especially if the Caucus had formally requested to meet that time.

Ms Mooi confirmed that transport will be provided to Members.

The Chairperson referred to Ms Dlamini’s question about 10 December 2024. She clarified that it was the date the programme was developed. She further explained that the Caucus had to postpone its first meeting in January because it clashed with a number of activities.

Finalisation of the steering committee membership

The Chairperson reminded Members that on 30 October 2024 the Caucus had elected a Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson. In line with the Joint Rules, the Multiparty Women’s Caucus had to elect one of its majority party members as chairperson and another of its members from the opposition parties as deputy chairperson. On 31 October 2024, the Caucus met to elect its multiparty steering committee. However, the Caucus elected six Members, instead of five. Joint Rule 177 states that the steering committee should consist of five members elected by the caucus, besides the chairperson and deputy chairperson. Following this, one of the Members, Ms M Pholwane (ANC) opted to resign so that the steering committee could be in line with the Joint Rules. The steering committee now consists of one Member of the ANC in the National Assembly (NA), one Member of the ANC in the National Council of Provinces (NCOP), one Member of the DA, one Member of the EFF, and one Member of the IFP.

She informed the Caucus that she had initiated a request for the number of steering committee members to be increased. She did so in consultation with the NA Speaker and Chairperson of the NCOP. The request will be tabled in the Joint Rules Committee. While waiting for the outcome, the steering committee will continue to consist of the five Members, as well as the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson (making it a total of seven members). She hoped that the Members understood this. She explained that the Speaker of the NA had asked her a difficult question of why she had allowed the Caucus to elect six Members. She apologised for this.

She invited the Unit Manager in the Committee’s Section to make any additional comments or corrections.

Ms Nomvula Giba, Unit Manager: Committee's Section, introduced herself to the Caucus. She told the Chairperson that everything so far seems procedurally correct. However, she would advise that Ms Pholwane confirm her resignation in this meeting so that it is on record. She would also advise the staff to display and read out the names of the five members who have been elected to the steering committee.

She further advised that if the Members believed that the steering committee comprised too few members, then this matter could be discussed in the next steering committee meeting. She said that the steering committee could come to a resolution on the matter and make a concrete proposal for a bigger multiparty steering committee, so that more political parties can be represented. This will allow the resolution to be tabled before the powers that be, so that there is a process to amend the Joint Rules.

Ms Pholwane confirmed that she had opted to resign so the process could run smoothly.

The Chairperson thanked Ms Pholwane.

Dr S Thembekwayo (EFF) noticed that it was only her surname that had been written on the list of names for the steering committee, it did not include her initials. She clarified that her initials and surname were SS Thembekwayo.

Ms Xego referred to Ms Giba’s advice. She said she wanted to propose that the steering committee have an additional member. She suggested that the Caucus make a recommendation to meet during normal times. She noticed that there were currently 59 participants on the virtual platform, but this also included staff members. She was interested in knowing how many women were in Parliament. She said that this Caucus must ensure that it finds expression in the programming of Parliament; it should not accept being a “by the way Committee”. Women in this country depend on this Caucus for their challenges to be addressed.

Ms N Mvana (ANC) concurred with the Chairperson’s remarks. She noted the challenge that the Caucus faced, in terms of having elected more members to the steering committee than required. She welcomed Ms Pholwane’s resignation in that regard. She suggested that the Caucus move forward with the programme that had been adopted, while being mindful that there might be a need to be flexible. She agreed with Ms Xego that the Caucus should meet during normal hours, not lunch.

Ms N Mente-Nkuna (EFF) concurred with Ms Xego. She said that the Caucus should also take itself seriously. Women represent 46% of the entire Parliament membership. Women represent 52% of the population of this country. If this Caucus is unwilling to fight to be a proper structure where it can deal with issues confronted by women in South Africa and advocate for women, then it might as well throw in the towel and not represent the 52% of the population.

She suggested that in the steering committee's first meeting, the Chairperson should write a letter to the Speaker requesting to avoid having women’s Caucus sessions on Thursdays, because Thursday mornings are usually for other caucus sessions. Having these sessions concurrently will not do justice to the work of the women’s Caucus. There is also limited time in the mornings, meaning that the women’s Caucus will be limited to one or two hours. There is an array of issues that must be dealt with. She suggested that all joint standing committees should meet on Fridays.

The Chairperson requested the Committee Secretary to display the names of the steering committee. The following names appeared on the screen: Ms O Seate (ANC), Ms P Mgcina (ANC), Ms M Ndlangisa (ANC, Eastern Cape), S Thembekwayo (EFF), and Ms A Khanyile (DA).

Ms Machi sought clarity on why her name was not on the list, as she had been elected.

The Chairperson reminded Ms Machi that six Members had been elected, but the Joint Rules require only five. One Member, Ms Pholwane, then resigned. She noted that Ms Machi had been elected and is one of the steering committee members. She requested that Members formally accept Ms Pholwane’s resignation.

Ms N Nkosi (ANC) moved for the acceptance of Ms Pholwane’s resignation; Ms K Mkhonto (EFF) seconded this.

Ms M Kobe (ActionSA) noted that the Chairperson had said that an IFP member had been elected to the steering committee, but her name was not reflected on the list. She sought clarification on this.

The Chairperson noted the error. She apologised for not having noticed earlier and requested that the list be corrected to include Ms Machi’s name.

Ms Mooi said she would contact the previous Committee Secretary to find out what happened in that meeting.

The Chairperson expressed certainty that Ms Machi was elected.

Ms Giba observed the list of names presented to the Caucus. It should be according to the previous set of minutes. She suggested that there was a need to clarify whether the Members had been correctly allocated according to their party, particularly whether a Member of the IFP had been elected. This should be done in this meeting to confirm the steering committee membership.

The Chairperson said that she had a clear understanding of the Members that were elected.

Ms Giba said that she was unsure how to resolve the matter at this point because the list of minutes before her and the list of names does not include a Member of the IFP.

Ms B Sapo (ANC) said the Chairperson’s recollection was correct. She recalled that six Members had been elected on 31 October 2024, including Ms Machi. She was unsure of how Ms Mgcina’s name had ended up on the list. She believed the previous Committee Secretary had mistakenly placed Ms Mgcina’s name on the list.

Ms Z Majozi (IFP) said that the Chairperson’s memory served her well, and this was also supported by other Members who were part of the previous meeting. She suggested that the Chairperson provide guidance on the way forward and also find out who had replaced Ms Machi’s name with someone else’s.

Ms W Tikana-Gxotiwe (ANC) agreed that the names should be clarified. She said that if there was a discrepancy, then there should be accountability.

The Chairperson said she would first apologise for Ms Machi’s name not appearing on the list. She was quite certain that the steering committee consisted of one Member of the ANC in the NA, one Member of the ANC in the NCOP, one Member of the DA, one Member of the EFF, and one Member of the IFP. Another ANC Member had also been elected, but she has since resigned from the steering committee membership for it to be in line with the Joint Rules. She also did not recall Ms Mgcina’s name being part of the list. She requested that this be corrected.

Ms Giba said that she had just gone through the minutes of 31 October. She noted that the previous Committee Secretary, Ms Mandy Balie, had joined the meeting to confirm that it was a mistake from her side. She apologised on her behalf.

The Chairperson requested Ms Balie to clarify the names of the steering committee.

Ms Balie apologised for the error. She said that she had checked the records, which show that Ms Machi had been elected, not Ms Mgcina.

The Chairperson thanked Ms Giba and Ms Balie and said that the issue had been resolved. The steering committee consists of Ms Seate, Ms Ndlangisa, Ms Thembekwayo, Ms Khanyile, and Ms Machi.

Closing remarks

The Chairperson said that some very important issues have been raised. The steering committee should take this seriously, particularly regarding the days and times the women’s Caucus meets. The women’s Caucus is not a portfolio committee but a structure that cuts across and connects Parliament with the citizenry of South Africa.

She informed the Members that she received calls from several women's organisations interested in making presentations. She will not make these decisions alone, as she would need to table these matters before the Caucus.

She concurred with Ms Mente-Nkuna and Ms Xego that the women’s Caucus should take itself seriously for Parliament to take it seriously. She noted the proposals that Members have made, including the request to increase the number of steering committee members. She said the Caucus should assert itself in Parliament without hostility or arrogance. Many issues are happening in the country that are affecting women, such as the issue of teenage pregnancy and gender-based violence. The Caucus should work with the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities to address these issues.

She thanked the Members for attending this meeting and Ms Giba and Ms Mpapela for assisting the Caucus.

Ms M Khawula (EFF) spoke in her vernacular language (01:07:20 - 01:09:20) 

The Chairperson said that the Members should feel free to communicate with her and the Deputy Chairperson. She once again apologised to Ms Machi and her party for the confusion around her membership in the steering committee.

The meeting was adjourned.