Marriage Bill: update on provincial public hearings; Political donations & disclosure threshold advert

Meeting report

Mr Eddie Mathonsi, Committee Secretary, indicated that five members were on the online platform. The meeting could proceed, and the rest would join later.

The Chairperson welcomed Members. He outlined the agenda for the meeting: approval of the draft advert relating to political party donations and disclosure thresholds; discussion of the Marriage Bill public hearings schedule; and consideration of the Third Term Committee Programme and minutes.

He complained about the lack of space for Members in previous meetings, which led to some of them sitting in unusual places. He asked that this be corrected. He remarked that the committee is an extension of the House, and in house sittings members had dedicated seating.

He appealed to those in charge of ensuring that members are seated in their correct place to take responsibility.

He asked if Members wanted to comment on this matter.

There was no comment.

He asked if there were any apologies.

The Committee Secretary replied that he had only received an apology from Ms Machi.

The Chairperson requested that they move on to the first item on the agenda.


Draft advert related to the upper limit for donations and disclosure threshold for political parties, independent candidates, and independent representatives

The Committee Secretary reminded the Committee that in the previous meeting, a decision was made to have public consultations on the upper limit for donations and disclosure threshold for political parties, independent candidates, and independent representatives. Together with Legal Services, they drafted an advert. This has been shared with Members.

He took Members through the advert.

He highlighted that the deadline for public submissions is 25 October 2024. The submissions must be directed to the Committee Secretary.

A dedicated email will be created for submissions.

The Chairperson asked the Parliamentary Legal Advisor if she had any input before Members commented.

Ms Telana Halley-Starkey (Parliamentary Legal Advisor) said she had no comment.

The Chairperson clarified that this was a draft advert. The legal team was interacted with regarding drafting. The Committee had resolved to call for written submissions.

Ms S Khojane (PA) noted that in the third paragraph, a sentence says, ‘We are inviting the public for public comment.’ She suggested that this sentence be moved to the beginning of the advert to make it clearer what the advert is about and that it be in bold letters for emphasis.

Ms L Ngobeni (Action SA) wanted to echo Ms Khojane’s suggestion. The writing at the bottom is a bit faint.

She added that the phrase ‘have your say,’ sounds like a movement.

She asked the Committee if it was satisfied with the 25 October deadline because that is not enough time. In terms of previous experience, has a one-month deadline enabled sufficient consultation with the public? Also, what is the plan to ensure that there is sufficient time for quality submissions from the public?

Mr S Ngubane (MK) asked whether the advert would cater to all the official languages in the country to ensure that those who cannot speak the Queen’s language are not excluded. Will it be advertised in all newspapers where other languages are spoken?

Mr Mathonsi remarked that once the changes to the advert have been made and approved by the committee, the advert will be sent to the parliamentary language unit to translate the advert into all the official languages. The Committee Secretariat will also get quotations from the newspapers to include the advert in those newspapers. About the deadline, the precedent for public comments is three weeks. The 25 October date took into consideration the supply chain management (SCM) process. Depending on how long the supply chain process takes, this date may be shifted.

Finally, he explained that Parliamentary adverts include the slogan: ' Have your say.’ This is basically a Parliamentary format for all adverts.

The Chairperson checked with the Legal Advisor if she had a comment.

Ms Halley-Starkey replied that the Committee Secretary had addressed all the questions sufficiently. She had nothing further to add.

The Chairperson stated that the Committee had followed the presentation made by the PEO unit in the last meeting. The Committee would take that route in terms of the adverts. Once the advert has been considered, it must be reflected in all languages. It must interact with the PEO unit regarding community radios to ensure broad outreach. Once the written submissions have been submitted, the Committee will then invite oral public hearings. It is important that the Committee considers the deadline within the context of possible supply chain process delays. The posture of Parliament is that there must be interaction with all the layers of administration so that the work of Parliament proceeds speedily. He suggested that the deadline be moved to the end of October, and if there are delays in the supply chain process, the Committee should be flexible enough to extend the deadline to November. There should be at least a month to comment. He asked that Mr Mathonsi update the Committee in the next meeting regarding how many languages have been considered for translation by the parliamentary language unit and the plan of the PEO unit to assist the Committee in communicating this matter.

Marriage Bill: Proposed Provincial Public Hearings Schedule
The proposed schedule was flighted.

Mr Adam Salmon, Committee Content Advisor, explained that they had been interacting with the PEO unit to get provincial feedback for the KwaZulu-Natal (KZN) and Gauteng public hearings on the Marriages Bill. The Management Committee (MANCO) members indicated that there is a need to include weekend and weekday options because members’ schedules suggest they are unavailable every weekend. In addition, it will improve accessibility so that people with 9 to 5 jobs can come on the weekends. There will be a variety of times for the weekends. The proposal thus far is that the Committee has the weekend of Friday the 8^th, 9^th and 10^th of November for KZN. For Gauteng, the Committee will have the weekdays of Wednesday through Friday from the 20^th to the 22nd of November. For each of these dates, the aim is to cover six districts and to split the Committee into two so that there is a delegation of at least five members that will each cover three districts, and then a report will be combined afterwards.

The following provinces are proposed to be done in the consequential parts of the year, but these are draft dates because the first term of parliament has not been finalised yet. The PEO Office has contacted the Government Communication and Information System (GCIS) in KZN and Gauteng. The Office has communicated that they will give the Committee feedback on the specific district they suggest for those areas.

He mentioned that he would train the PEO on the bill's content to be well-prepared when they went to the provinces. They are meeting with them next week. In the meantime, if members have suggestions about which districts should be visited, they will take that feedback.

The Chairperson said the matter of members determining where to go is not the correct procedure. This will create problems for members. It was not a standard way to deal with this matter. The PEO must give the Committee a report regarding the workshop plan. When the matter was presented to the Committee, everyone agreed that there must be sufficient mobilisation or communication on the subject matter, and for this to happen, the Committee must utilise the PEO to conduct workshops in various districts. There was also a matter of how the Committee would identify stakeholders to derive impactful input from the workshops.

He noted the scheduled training next week and said the GCIS and PEO must develop notes that must be circulated and take note of all the languages. It may be that once a month, the committee may need to consider a weekend or even during the week for public hearings, given the extensive legislation and other work that the committee must process.

He added that the Committee has already applied for its study tour on electronic voting and other related matters concerning the Independent Electoral Commission (IEC). Some countries were identified.

Ms Ngobeni concurred with the Chairperson’s remarks about the division of labour. For planning purposes, the Committee should get clarity on how the division of labour will be done because if each member could decide and choose where they wanted to be on any given week, that may cause confusion and unnecessary conflict.

Mr A Roos (DA) emphasised that the Committee must attempt to meet with diverse audiences from different types of communities and stakeholders. It isn't easy, but an attempt must be made.

Mr Ngubane asked that the Committee Secretary share the outline document with the Committee members. How will choosing districts and venues work? Will they look at saturated districts? Will you look at the concentration or accommodate what Mr Roos has said? This is important so the members can inform their constituents as early as possible and resolve the logistics of ensuring they can be present well in time.

Mr Salmon explained that the first port of call for communication from the PEO is to go to the GCIS in each province because they are familiar with the appropriate venues and the diverse interest groups, and they are basically the public interface of government with communities. There are also Parliamentary Democracy Offices (PDOs) in the provinces that are communicated with afterwards. These offices have a more on-the-ground understanding of the best venues. In the past, they suggested venues and places based on the committee's experience, but now they are being led by the GCIS. The members can still give feedback later if they feel those areas are not right. By mid-next week, the GCIS has committed to informing the Committee about the chosen venues.

Mr Mathonsi added that in most provinces, parliament officials are already engaged in public education; this is the PDO Mr Salmon spoke about. These offices assisted the Committee in the previous public hearings and mobilised community members to attend the hearings. The Offices are based in most of the provinces. When the PEO presented to the Committee, it indicated that certain areas had been continuously used for public participation, so it suggested organising new venues this time around, which are more populated in the district. They will assist in identifying venues in areas where there have not been public hearings. They are looking at the populated areas in the area, so there can be an impact. The unit will approach diverse stakeholders like churches, NGOs, and women.

For the other provinces, they just came up with the dates, but the parliamentary framework programme for next year has not been adopted. The dates may change to align with this.

The Chairperson stated that the PDOs would advise the Committee on how other Committees have conducted the hearings in this area. For instance, Limpopo has five districts, three districts that can be identified, and stakeholders and communities within that area can be invited. This formula was used when the Committee was dealing with the Electoral Amendment Act. In KZN, there are ten districts. Given the resources, the Committee may be unable to accommodate all the ten districts. The Committee can accommodate the province by interfacing with the stakeholders. For instance, coordinating with all the royal houses or churches regarding subject matter.

He explained how the division of labour amongst Committee members could help the Committee extend its work and cover all the areas.  

Third Term Committee Draft Programme
Mr Mathonsi took the members through the 3^rd term draft committee programme, which begins on the 7th of October. Mr. Mothusi added that he was planning a committee oversight visit to Gauteng, to the head office of the Department of Home Affairs (DoH), the BMA, IEC, the Government Printing Works and Lindela, as well as the Tshwane Refugee Office. During that time, he proposed that the Committee meet with the Auditor-General to discuss the audit outcomes for the Home Affairs Portfolio.

When the Committee spends a day at each entity's head office, the members will receive a briefing on the entity’s annual reports for the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report (BRRR) required in mid-October.

Mr Mathonsi remarked that he had made an application, which the House is still considering, for the Committee to participate in that oversight from October 7th to 11th.

Further, he indicated that on the 15^th of October, the IEC would brief the Committee on the 2024 national and provincial election report. Committee members have been asking the IEC to brief them on this report. It was supposed to happen towards the end of September, but because of the oversight work, it has been pushed to the 15th of October. The BRRR must be submitted to the House by the 25^th of October.

He proposed that on the 29^th of October, the multidisciplinary task team on implementing the Lubisi report, which pertains to the issue of fraudulent visas and permits, come brief the Committee on its work. The counter-corruption and security services will also come to brief the Committee on how they deal with corruption within the DoH.

On the 5^th of November, the Minister and the IEC will update the Committee on their work. He proposed that public hearings be held between the 8^th and 10^th of November in KZN. On the 12^th of November, another engagement with the Minister has been scheduled to address the issue of downtime, mobile offices and long queues. From the 21st to the 22nd of November, there will be a public hearing on the Marriage Bill in Gauteng. On the 26^th of November, there will be a briefing by the Border Management Authority (BMA) on its readiness for the festive season. There will also be a briefing on the Electoral Commission Amendment Bill. This is the private members' bill that was introduced in 2023.

A proposal to conduct oversight at the ports of entry is from the 3rd to the 6th of December. There will be a discussion to conduct a joint oversight with the security cluster at the point of entry, but it is uncertain whether this will take place in December or January.

The Chairperson thanked Mr Mathonsi for taking the Committee through the draft programme. He indicated that the Committee must consider the programme. He added that the Committee may need to consider the loss of data when it conducts oversight at the Government Printing Works. The Committee must also discuss whether it prefers to deal with the report before it deals with the IEC's annual report.

Mr Roos remarked that election day and its run-up are two separate matters: the audit and financial report from the year. So, will it be necessary to put one issue before the other?

Mr Ngubane commented that Ms Khojane would appreciate the oversight visit with the Border Management Authority. In terms of the data at the Government Printing Works
That is not the only issue that should be considered. Old infrastructure must also be reviewed.

Mr T Mogale (EFF) appreciated that the Committee will be getting the 2024 electoral report. He inquired whether the meeting discussing the report would be virtual or physical. He also indicated that the Committee had requested oversight visits at specific Home Affairs Offices, but the request is not reflected in the programme. He added that it is important that the Committee identifies problematic offices and conducts oversight visits in those offices.

The Chairperson noted that all the comments the members had raised will be added to the programme. The Committee will meet with the IEC physically. From the 3rd to the 6th, the Committee will visit Home Affairs Offices. The problematic offices and those making progress will be identified in the Committee meeting. He affirmed that the programme was approved, along with the amendments raised by the members.

Committee Minutes
Mr Mathonsi presented the minutes dated 10 September 2024.

The Chairperson invited comments on the minutes and members to adopt the minutes.

Ms Khojane moved to adopt the minutes as a true reflection of the meetings.

Ms Ngobeni seconded the adoption.

Closing Remarks
The Chairperson thanked the members for their comments and inputs, as the Committee is now clear on the matters. He added that once M Mathonsi and Mr Salmon have concluded their workshops next week, they should kindly notify the Committee so the members know the programme. At that point, the Committee should have decided how the division of labour would work to conduct the hearings efficiently. He thanked the attendees for their time.

The meeting was adjourned.