SAAPAC matters: Annual membership fees; WCPP Delegations

Meeting report

The Chairperson opened the meeting and asked Members to introduce themselves. Thereafter, the rules for the virtual meeting were outlined.

The Chairperson noted the Committee was only supposed to meet next week. However, because there is a meeting the next day in Johannesburg as chairpersons of APAC, there are matters for the Committee to discuss ahead of this engagement.

Payment of SAAPAC annual membership fees

The Chairperson noted that members received the letter from the previous Scopa Chairperson, who spoke about the non-payment of fees because of the lack of audited financial statements. All Members were sent the audited financial statements (AFS), which was the condition for payment. There is also a letter from the secretariat explaining this. After going through this information, the Chairperson said he did not see any reason not to pay the annual membership fee.

Ms N Nkondlo (ANC) noted the previous Committee’s concerns about the AFS and due financial governance. Based on that information, she supported the Committee proceeding to make its payments and participate as duly intended.

Mr B Petrus (PA) asked what the financial implication was for the Committee.

The Chairperson responded that the annual fee is R138 000. The money has been made available, but because the Committee did not pay, it was kept in abeyance until the financial statements were given. They have given all the financial statements, and the money has been put aside for payment if they comply.

Mr Petrus asked if this amount could be part of the Committee’s final decision.

The Chairperson explained that it was a membership fee to be affiliated, which all provinces pay. Even when he was Chairperson in 2014, he recalled paying. The only reason it was not paid was the request to see the AFS. But now that has been cleared, so he recommended paying.

Mr L Van Wyk (DA) agreed with the Chairperson.

The Committee resolved to pay the membership fees. 

The Chairperson said this would be communicated during the meeting tomorrow.

Mr Petrus did not disagree but highlighted that it was public money, so the Committee must be transparent about the amount to be paid.

The Chairperson repeated that the fee was R138 000 for the year, but the final amount would be R276 000 because the Committee did not pay last year and is a year behind. The money was kept in abeyance until compliance with the Committee’s request was achieved.

The Committee Coordinator allayed concerns by saying the amount will be reflected in the Committee minutes.

Selection of the Western Cape Provincial Parliament Members to constitute the council of delegates (COD) for the seventh parliamentary term

Ms B Van Minnen (DA) nominated Mr P Johnston (DA).

Mr Johnston agreed.

Mr Van Wyk seconded.

Ms Nkondlo noted she was the only member present at the ANC meeting, so she nominated herself.

Ms B Stoffel (ANC) seconded.

The Committee Coordinator noted that Ms Nkondlo was not a permanent Member of the Committee, but this could be accepted if there was no opposition.

Ms Nkondlo replied that she would consult with her party.

The Committee Coordinator said the Members in the meeting can still nominate the permanent ANC Member, provided she accepts the nomination at the next Committee meeting. The permanent ANC member was currently struggling to log into the meeting.

The Members supported this.

Selection of the Western Cape Provincial Parliament Public Account Committee delegation who will attend the annual Southern Africa Development Community Organization of Public Accounts

The Chairperson said the letter was circulated to Members. The letter asks for four Members to go to Zimbabwe for the 16^th annual conference and the 20^th AGM– two females and two males. The Chairperson was the one male, so nominations were called for the females.

The Committee Coordinator added that this is an annual invitation as the WCPP is a member of the South African Public Accounts Committee. The WCPP has automatic membership as part of the public accounts committees in the SADC region.

Mr Van Wyk nominated Ms Van Minnen and Dr N Mbombo (DA).

Mr Johnston seconded this.

Ms Nkondlo requested that the multi-party character of the Committee be considered. She thought more than one party should be represented to share the experience and learnings.

Mr Van Wyk asked if another meeting could be arranged to allow for further consideration on the matter raised by Ms Nkondlo. 

Ms Van Minnen pointed out that the Chairperson came from another party, so the delegation was multiparty.

The Committee Coordinator said the names were required by Friday, 16 August at the latest. If needed, he suggested a round robin via email and Whatsapp with a poll.

Ms Nkondlo noted the two-party representation, and even if a poll were taken, the majority party would get more numbers. For fairness and representation, she suggested the inclusion of one Member from the ANC and one from the smaller parties.

Mr Petrus asked about the financial implications.

The Chairperson said the Committee Coordinator will pay for flights and give Members the details. The Committee first needed the delegate names before doing anything else, so this decision that the Committee is making today is very important in order to proceed.

Mr Petrus expressed his discomfort without disclosure of financial implications for decisions taken.

Mr G Bosman (DA) cautioned Members regarding the time—if the names have to be submitted by Friday, it was best that the Committee handle it now because those names and the report still have to go to the Speaker for approval.

The Committee Coordinator informed the Members that this was a very abnormal request from SADCOPAC. Normally, they request all of the members of this committee to attend its annual conference. This is the first time that the Committee received this unusual request for only four Members mindful of gender.

The travel agent provided estimates. The Committee was looking at about R185 000 to R220 000, depending on the flights and dates. This includes flight, accommodation, vaccines, and other expenses. The passports of the nominated Members will be needed by next Thursday. There is still a lot of groundwork to complete before the conference.

The senior procedural officer added that SADCOPAC is international travel, and it was decided in 2018/19 that this travel would be paid by the Office of the Speaker from a pool budget and wouldn't be deducted from the actual yearly allocation of the PAC committee. The administration prepared a memo that had to be approved by the Speaker. We had to include the financial implications. That would be the cost of the flights, possible accommodation, and yellow fever inoculations; all these expenditures were presented to the Speaker. The Speaker considered the financial implications when deciding on the approval. The matter is now with the Committee to decide on the names to attend. The Committee should comply with the SADCOPAC requirements.

The Chairperson noted two nominations. He noted this matter would be discussed at the meeting of public accounts committee chairpersons, so he would like to finalise the names. He asked if there were other names to nominate to attend the conference.

Ms Nkondlo proposed Ms Lekker and Mr Petrus.

The Chairperson noted that three females and one male were now nominated. He asked for other nominations.

Mr Petrus declined the nomination.

Mr Van Wyk nominated the Chairperson.    

The Chairperson noted that three females and one male had been nominated. Another male name was required. The other male Committee Members were from the DA. Members must choose between Mr Van Wyk and Mr Johnston.

Mr Van Wyk nominated Mr Johnston.

Ms Van Minnen seconded.

Mr Johnston accepted.

The Chairperson said the male delegates were himself and Mr Johnson. There were three names for the female component.

Mr Bosman asked the staff if Ms Nkondlo, as an alternate Member, could make nominations.

The Committee Coordinator noted Ms Lekker was in the meeting, so she could nominate herself. Alternate Members could not make nominations.

Ms Nkondlo said that if Mr Bosman had a problem, he could ask her directly. She participated in the first agenda item by making nominations. Ms Lekker was struggling to connect.

Ms Lekker apologised for joining the meeting very late. Having listened to the discussions and understanding what the rules said in this regard, she nominated herself.

Mr Petrus seconded the nomination.

The Chairperson noted that three female Members were nominated—Ms Van Minnen, Dr Mbombo, and Ms Lekker. He asked if there was any reconsideration. He said it was senseless to go to a vote because the DA had the majority on the Committee.

Mr Van Wyk retained his nomination of Ms Van Minnen and Dr Mbombo.

The Committee resolved that those attending the conference in Zimbabwe would be the Chairperson, Mr Johnston, Ms Van Minnen and Dr Mbombo from 9 to 14 September. These Members would receive further communication.

Ms Lekker understood what the democratic process entails and that the arrogance of numbers will always be an issue within the committees.

Committee minutes

The minutes were considered and adopted by Ms Van Minnen and seconded by Mr Van Wyk.

The meeting was adjourned.