Overtime Budget and Related Industrial Action: briefing

Meeting report

CORRECTIONAL SERVICES PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
10 August 2004
OVERTIME BUDGET AND RELATED INDUSTRIAL ACTION: BRIEFING

Chairperson: Mr L Modisinyane (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Background to Departmental Personnel Establishment

SUMMARY
The Deputy Minister of Correctional Services and the Commissioner met with the Committee to discuss the current crisis faced by the Department. A Departmental representative gave background to the Departmental Personnel Establishment and touched on a range of issues such as "illegal" industrial action and its consequences and current developments. Correctional Services officials involved in the illegal industrial action that cost the Department R500 000 were dismissed and others issued with suspension letters. The Department had decided to set up a Joint Technical Team to normalise relations between the Police and Prisons Civil Rights Union (Popcru) and the Department. Both the Department and the Committee agreed that they should continue to have talks with Popcru. The Commissioner denied accusations by Popcru that he was "militarising" the Department.

MINUTES
In his opening speech, the Chairperson said the word transformation meant a change in the way services were delivered. He said because of South Africa's past the country's democracy would be judged by the way criminals were treated. He said the Department of Correctional Services was going through a crisis that involved Popcru. He said Committee negotiations with Popcru should not be recriminatory but should focus on finding a way forward.

The Commissioner of Correctional Services, Commissioner Mr L Mti, who was recently re-appointed said he wanted to consolidate his achievements by building leadership in the Department. He said he wanted to build close relationships between the Department and the municipalities. He said there was miscommunication between the Committee and the Department which should be brought to an end.

He said what the Department needed to consider was its approach towards a so-called Seven-day Establishment. He said the issue has been "blown out of proportion". The Commissioner said the Committee must facilitate workshops between itself and Popcru.

He also said a recent advert for the Chairperson of the Parole Board was wrongly phrased and needed to be withdrawn. He said the Chairperson for the Parole Board had to come from the public and not the Department. The Committee ought to monitor the interviews. He said the Department must be one of the best and most respected in the world.

Mr Vernie Petersen, a representative from the Department, provided background to the change from a five to seven day establishment. He said the Department started its 5-day week system in 1978 and the system allowed roughly half of the staff that worked during the week to work at weekends. One of the advantages of a seven-day establishment was that staff worked 12 days and 34 hours. The problem with a 5-day system was that there was no time for rehabilitation programmes in line with the White Paper. There was no time to receive visits by friends, relatives and legal representatives.

He said a good thing about the 7-day establishment was that prisoners had sufficient time for meal breaks, development programmes and flexi-time work.

After listing advantages and disadvantages of the five-day establishment and seven-day establishment he outlined recent developments. He said Popcru declared a dispute with the Department at the Department Bargaining Council. The matter was referred to arbitration.

Among the recent developments was the illegal industrial action by Popcru. The illegal industrial action involved 300 awaiting-trial prisoners who tried to escape from Nelspruit Prison. In Barberton, they caused excessive damage such as breaking furniture. Instead of condemning the prisoners who caused the damage, he said, Popcru has decided to extend the industrial action to other provinces. The Department was not aware of the demands at the time of the industrial action and wanted Popcru to explain them.

The prisoners held hostage some department officials. Other members of Popcru stayed away for the weekend. He said the Department had to take strong action and the 150 involved officials were dismissed. One thousand Correctional Services officials were issued with suspension letters. Fifty-one had appealed against suspension. Popcru submitted letters to the Department arguing against the suspensions.

He then explained current developments. The Department had expressed a commitment to work with Popcru. The Minister was going to establish a Joint Technical Team to try and normalise relations between the Department and the union. After the Barberton incident, the Department had to act decisively.

The Chairperson said Popcru was concerned about the dismissals. Popcru wanted unconditional reinstatement of the dismissed people. The Chairperson said discipline in the Department was not something to negotiate about. He said Popcru members committed different offences and they cannot be treated in a similar manner. He cited an example of Popcru members who incited others to burn prisons.

The Chairperson said the Commissioner would next week meet the Minister of Finance to discuss its budget and the financial implications of moving to a seven-day establishment.
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The Chairperson said the Department would not rescind the interdicts until it and Popcru had a memorandum of understanding that stated there would be no hostage-taking and damage to property. He felt that Popcru had no control over its members and that social workers and psychologists who worked over weekends only did so for security reasons.

The Commissioner said there was some concern about insignia. He said Popcru was wrongly accusing him of "militarising" the Department. He said it was not fair that the SA Police Services used insignia and no one complained, but when it was the Department of Correctional Services people started to talk about militarising. "It has nothing to do with militarising ,but about knowing who was who in the Department", he stated. The Deputy Minister, Deputy Minister, Ms Cheryl Gillward, said to solve problems in the future the Department needed to see how a single Bargaining Council could help.. The structure the Department currently relied on was clearly unsound.

The Chairperson said people could only comment and ask questions of clarification about the presentation.

Discussion
Mr N Fihla (ANC) remarked that the Department was faced with a lot of challenges among which was the situation where rights were not balanced with responsibilities. The Department had moved to restorative justice. The escape of prisoners from prison would endanger the whole society. If prison officials worked seven days a week it would advance the objective of rehabilitating criminals. One could close a factory at weekends, but the situation was different in prisons where the Department dealt with people.

Another Committee Member remarked that the Committee had to meet Popcru leaders so as not to create the impression that the Committee was discussing issues in bad faith.

Mr Nkosi Colo said he supported the view that issues that involved Popcru and the Department should not be discussed until all those concerned were present.

Ms J Sosibo asked for clarification of the 46-hour establishment and media reports about Nelspruit Prison that alleged prisoners were starved for 24 hours.

The Commissioner answered that the reports were not exaggerated. The starvation of prisoners was caused by the disruption of services. He said 46 percent of people who would be working at weekends were "not scientifically based". The number of people working at weekends would vary from prison to prison. The percentage would be reviewed.

Mr Cecil Burgess asked the Commissioner the total cost of the damage to property in prisons. He also asked if prison officials voluntarily worked overtime.

The Commissioner said the damage amounted to R500 000. He said overtime was not voluntary. There was a rotational system whereby people were not allowed to work overtime twice a month.

Remarking on the "militarisation" allegation by Popcru, Mr Lekoba Jack said he did not understand the problem about insignia.

One member of the Committee asked if the Department would have a Parole Board in every province or in every prison.

The Commissioner answered that there would be a Parole Board for every management area. There would be about seven Parole Boards in every province.

Addressing the Committee and the Department representatives in Afrikaans, Mr Samson Mahote gave the Committee a short lecture on the role of insignia in his Pedi culture. He said a Pedi king would wear an animal skin so that he could be identified as a king in his community. He felt that insignia played the same role in the Department - that of differentiating between seniors and juniors.

Ms Kiki Rhwexane asked the Deputy Minister if there was any provision aimed at educating the public about the programmes of the Department.

The Deputy Minister replied that the Department needed to brush up on education and needed to have communication mechanisms in place. She said she had a positive response from the media. She said the Department should have a publication aimed at educating the public about how the sentencing system, parole and rehabilitation worked.

The Chairperson asked Ms J Sosibo to tell everybody present about her visit to a Youth Prison. She said if the Committee announced in advance their visits to prisons they would get a "superficial picture" of its "goings-on". But if they visited unannounced they would see the real state of affairs where officials were just sitting around playing cards.

However, Ms J Sosibo said she was impressed by the willingness of the youth to engage in rehabilitation programmes. She felt that there were good people in the Department who had potential to change the image of the Department for the better.

The Deputy Minister said the Department must have a parole system for people who engaged in rehabilitation programs. She said the Department needed to have a parole system. "We need to think of the unintended consequences of the legislation we have", she said. She was at pains to justify the presence of a parole system." Rigid legislation creates unintended consequences", she stated.
The meeting was adjourned.