Department Budget: hearings

Arts and Culture

09 June 2004
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Meeting Summary

A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.

Meeting report

9 June 2004

Ms M Njobe (ANC)

Documents handed out:

South African Heritage Resources Agency (SAHRA)
All Africa Diaspora and World Festival of the Arts and Culture (FESTAC)
Business Arts South Africa (BASA)
National Heritage Council
South Africa Heritage Resources Agency Strategic Plan
Pan South African Language Board presentation
Performing Arts Network of South Africa
South Africa Heritage Resources Agency Vision
National Film and Video Foundation
Association for the Advancement of Creative Artists (AACA) presentation (see appendix)

The Committee heard presentations by different organisations. The organisations asked for more funding and submitted their plans, reports and financial statements and elaborated on their expenditure. Most organisations felt they did not get enough funding

During the morning session, South African Heritage Resources Agency (SAHRA), All Africa Diaspora and World Festival of the Arts and Culture (FESTAC), National Film and Video Foundation (NFVF) and Business Arts South Africa (BASA) made their presentations. All were concerned at the state of the performing arts and other cultural sectors in the country. These organisations lamented their lack of funding, but indicated that they were doing what they could to enhance cultural and art forms in their spheres of responsibility.

The Performing Arts Network of South Africa were concerned that the funds had not reached those they were meant for. This was due to mismanagement in the National Arts Council (NAC). The performing arts had a huge role to play but did not get the NAC's support.

The National Library of South Africa raised concerns that the funds would help with its task to collect, preserve and make available the historical material of South Africa. Its key challenge was to promote the awareness of information and literacy.

The Robben Island Museum delegation announced its plans to work on additional requirements and appealed for information. It highlighted the need for the committee to make recommendations. The committee will have its 28th session next year and RIM would have to report on recommendations.

South African Heritage Resources Agency (SAHRA)
Ms Madiba, CEO of South African Heritage Resources Agency, introduced the top management structure of the agency. In her introduction she explained the purpose of the heritage resources agency as being the purpose of remembrance. In her presentation she firstly explained the two tiers of government and three spheres of heritage resources governance; the powers and functions of the national tier of governance: South African Heritage Recourses Agency (SAHRA), of SAHRA Council; the powers and functions and duties of the provincial tier of government; the Provincial Heritage Agency (PHRA) and finally of the Heritage Resources Authorities. She gave examples of key heritage sites in South Africa such as the Sarah Baartman burial site created by the department. Mr Bailing, Chief Financial Officer of SAHRA presented the figures of the SAHRA Budget Summary. In conclusion she said that although the passion and might of the department was there to start projects and improve conditions, funds was simply unavailable and therefore the national estate was at risk. It was for this reason that Ms Madiba said SAHRA had been pleading for a minimum additional budget increase of R15 million.

Ms Tshivhest (ANC) questioned whether the department would engage in cultural awareness in deep rural areas.

Mr Moonsamy (ANC) firstly asked the department to explain what the Grade Former National Monuments was. Secondly, he inquired about the efforts made by SAHRA to obtain the information of historical and monumental people, places and events relevant to South Africans.

Prof Mohamed (ANC) commented that people in his constituency in Soweto whose families had died in the struggle had no burial sites to see whether they had died and asked SAHRA what would be done about it. He also commented on the low budget figures that were previously shown and how SAHRA got well over 50% of the budget. A suggestion was made that other heritage funding could possibly be shifted and given to SAHRA to address their problems.

Mr Sonto (ANC) commented on the slide of human remains shown to the Members in the presentation as "uncultural in terms of Africa" and requested that people be shown the grave site instead of the remains. Secondly, he wanted to know what monitoring mechanisms were in place within the lower school grades. A typical example was the contemplation of the City of Cape Town and Khayelitsha for a wall of remembrance. The problem was that the co-ordinators of the project had recognized that Councilors in the Black Local Authority were also part of South African history. Mr Sonto therefore asked what significance that had for the mission and vision of SAHRA.

Ms Madiba gave a general comment that heritage was seen as belonging to social aspects but that it was also very political and cut across to economic issues as well. Therefore a balance should be kept.
She also commented that because of resources the progress on constructing memorial sites for those who died was slow but initiatives of international student organizations would help SAHRA document records of historical significance.

Ms Madiba said that Reassessment and Grading entailed surveys of specific heritage sites, using a template that was established with criteria for grading 1 to 3. Grading essentially meant that more research would have to be done on monuments and more information collected than when they were listed. She also said that certain monuments would be classified as either National, Provincial, local or even non heritage monuments. The critical issue she said was that the programme would have to be conducted by the PHRA according to the National Heritage Resources Act.

Ms Madiba informed the Members that any person or community may nominate a site or resource and submit it for grading and for protection but that those people would have to be trained and educated by the department. She discussed the sensitivity surrounding the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's reports on those who were killed and said that many people were not aware of where those graves were. If resources were available she said, the department would gather the stakeholders, next of kin and those responsible for law enforcement so that the department could approach this sensitive issue carefully and responsibly.
Thorough monitoring mechanisms would have to be used and background checks would have to be made.

Ms Madiba apologized once again to the Members for the very graphic slide of human remains but said that it had been done to highlight the fact that the department was faced with certain circumstances of removing the remains of an individual. She said that the wall of remembrance in Khayelitsha would contain names of those who were members of black local authorities and who were victims of the struggle. Her point was that there were many challenges for SAHRA, including dealing with people's emotions and sensitivities.

Mr Khumalo (ANC) suggested that Members focus on the Budget and its need for a further R15 million and thereafter concentrate on the specific problems in the various provinces.

Ms Mpaka (ANC) asked how SAHRA utilized their inherited reserves. Secondly, she queried the reason for an increase in project funding. Lastly she asked how SAHRA linked with the Department of Environmental Affairs, if this was an oversight by SAHRA or an issue that had to be regulated by the Committee.

Mr Gololo (ANC) commented that although there were financial constraints, SAHRA should address the fact that there were graves in Tanzania of comrades who fought in the struggle.

Ms Barnard (DA) asked what their database and website was like.

Ms Madiba said that the reserves that were inherited were dwindling and had actually been financing their over-expenditure and that at the end of this financial year they would have only R1million of the initial R4 million left. This was basically the reason why the department was surviving.

Project funding increased because each year the sites and resources increases and once identified SAHRA must act on it and therefore it becomes a project.

She said that PHRA was not the lower level of SAHRA because it was established by the MEC's and therefore should be budgeted for through the provinces. However SAHRA had a responsibility to monitor, evaluate, coordinate and manage it because of their responsibility to the National Estate.

SAHRA's collaboration with the Department of Environmental Affairs occurred because they were considered "twin sisters" -the social and natural. A partnership with clear mandates was established and therefore each sector was funded for their own areas of interest.

Ms Madiba said that the department was aware of the need for protection of the graves in Tanzania but the question was whether they should be protected there or brought over to South Africa. This was a complicated, sensitive and essentially a political issue.

The database and website, had been developed quite fast. SAHRA's database had a National Inventory, as mandated. A framework was used and information stored would be considered much broader than previously.

All Africa Diaspora and World Festival of the Arts and Culture (FESTAC)
Mr Malifane, representative of FESTAC, said that their comments and assessment was focused on programme four, namely Cultural Development and International Co-operation. He discussed FESTAC's programme of action, business plan and budget. Three strong achievements were identified as, firstly, seed funding R1 million was allocated to the establishment of a cultural bank; secondly it would be allowed to formulate a continental culture and cultural industries policy and action plan for Africa, and thirdly, the Department of Arts and Culture had recognized it and supported its preparations to host the Western Cape FESTAC in December this year.

In his closing comments he touched on issues already addresses by SAHAR, namely the strengthening of partnerships between the private sector and civil society. FESTAC had suggested that through the cultural bank funds could be mobilized to assist with expenses and projects that SAHRA and other institutions need funding for. He also discussed the challenges of SAHRA with regards to graves and monuments and especially the Sarah Baartman issue, and said that it was being seriously addressed by the Department of Arts and Culture. FESTAC welcomed the fact that government had begun to recognize the graves that contained hundreds of South Africans in England and France. An example was given of a grave in the south of France where 150 Black soldiers died in World War One that no one but he had visited since its establishment. Forty kilometers away the Delville Wood gravesite received up to two million visitors a year yet no one knew about the other grave site. He said that he hoped SAHRA would be able to address this problem.

The Chairperson suggested that Mr Malifane should write to SAHRA and advise them of the gravesites he had mentioned.

Ms Barnard (DA) asked Mr Malifane to expand on the subject of a cultural bank and explain what cultural export commodities were.

Mr Malifane said that FESTAC was very involved in the NEPAD process, but funding was difficult to access if the request was not for a substantial amount. Therefore, it was felt that a dedicated cultural industries institution should be created and funded through NEPAD and other institutions. The World Bank had already agreed to make available training and development funding for craft producers. This he said was essentially the opportunity to have an institution that would manage the cultural industries' affairs. In terms of export product, the film industry in South Africa would be the forerunner. South Africa could through the cultural bank reverse the trend of only buying entertainment for its audiences and instead produce its own local film products. However, a government supported cultural bank would be essential to achieve this.

Mr Sonto (ANC) asked two questions: first what was the economical training activities of FESTAC and, second, how it sustained itself.

Ms Mpaka (ANC) made a reference to the concerns about cultural development where certain departments had failed to fulfill their obligations and asked which programmes had failed. Secondly, she asked whether FESTAC should not first identify potential projects before securing funding.

Ms Tshivhest (ANC) asked how the cultural funds would be rolled out to craftmakers in areas such as Limpopo Province.

Chairperson Njobe asked whether the concerns raised by the Members would be imparted to the other departmenst concerned. She also asked if this issue had been discussed by the relevant Ministers. Finally, she asked how prepared FESTAC was for the planned festival in December this year.

Mr Gololo (ANC) asked where the festival proceeds would go and whom it would benefit.

Mr Malifane said that NEPAD had allocated funds to infrastructure development projects, other than the Timbuktu Manuscript Project that President Thabo Mbeki and the President of Mali launched, which had been the first NEPAD cultural project, Culture had not yet benefited from the available funds. The process of establishing a culture bank would not be a challenge because there were existing institutions that funded commercial activity across the board. It would be a question of mobilizing goals and getting them to give specific attention to the area of cultural industries.

Mr Malifane said that the preparations for the December festival had been going well, as the Department had invited many countries, which were all geared to come over to South Africa. There were two specific activities "cast in stone". The first was that South Africa would be closing its 10 Years of Freedom celebration and secondly, the decade against slavery and its abolishment ends in 2004. On 2 December the world will celebrate the abolishment of slavery, spearheaded by the UN and UNESCO.

Mr Malifane voiced an opinion that the government, specifically the Department of Arts and Culture were not interested in this festival and that they were not doing and participating in enough cultural programmes.

He also said with regards to the progress of FESTAC, they would first start with the programmes and see what benefits are reaped before funds were disbursed. An international event as mentioned would be the perfect vehicle for mobilizing resources to plough back into the development of arts and culture in the country. Whatever money is generated would be predetermined. The Department had written letters which said that they would not support FESTAC in spite of both the Minister and President insisting that they did. As a result FESTAC had not received a single cent from the Department.

The rural community would benefit from the major event planned as well as the cultural bank by having their craft products displayed on the FESTAC website. Through this dedicated website and marketing vehicle FESTAC would be able to help especially women crafters who relied on tourists to both fund them and form co-operatives, supply raw material to them and ensure funding initiatives and finally gain more suppliers all over the world.

Mr Sonto (ANC) expressed confusion at the apparently poor relationship between FESTAC and the DAC and asked for an explanation.

Mr Malifane said that it was not fair to say that the entire department was not cooperating with FESTAC but rather the international affairs section of the DAC. Relationships and cooperation had not improved in spite of the intervention of the Minister and the President. The line-function management had not established any cooperation with FESTAC.

Chairperson Njobe expressed her gratitude to Mr Malifane for bringing all the information to the Members' attentionand commented that parliamentary meetings were held not just to hear about the good things in a department but the unpleasant and difficult issues relating to it as well. The Committee Members had heard the comments, were made aware of the problems and would decide how to address them.

National Film and Video Foundation (NFVF)
Mr Mbalo, CEO of the National Film and Video Foundation introduced his guests from the United States of America, Prof Adam Clayton Powell of the University of Southern California, his wife Irene and students from the Film School at the University.

Mr Vundla, President of the NFVF firstly presented the business plan and programme of action of the NFVF. Mr Mbalo secondly discussed other relevant issues namely the Situational Analysis of the South African Film Industry; the analysis of the current developments in the film Industry in South Africa as well as Key Success Factors. He provided a Programme Description and finally a Cost Benefit Analysis was presented.

Ms Tshivhest (ANC) asked a question relating to the transformation process in the Film and Video industries, and wanted to know who was running the industries.

Ms Barnard (DA) asked Mr Vundla regarding a comment he made in his presentation about there being so few cinemas in township areas. She asked if the NFVF had allocated any money to address the problem.

Mr Sonto (ANC) said according to the NFVF, the film market did not cater for the previously disadvantaged areas and their languages were not catered for. He therefore asked whom the NFVF were prioritizing.

Mr Mbalo said that Mr Vundla would be the perfect example of the state of transformation in the industry considering that he is a Black person with the longest running television programme. All the NFVF efforts were aimed at providing access to the majority of people to work in the film industry. Other factors that came into play were the issue of training as many people do not have the necessary training. However there was also a backlog of people who had been trained while they were in exile. The NFVF had over 80 students in different universities locally and internationally, the majority of which were black young people interested in film. Bursaries and scholarships from the "Dr Lionel Scholarship Fund" had awarded funds to certain students. In the last meeting the chairperson questioned whether the majority of the projects of the NFVF were for whites, and although that may be the reality, the monetary value can be seen in the fact that the NFVF had given more money to the black film makers in the last financial year than any other community. He also addresses the issue of helping more black filmmakers to establish foreign relationships, as most films were co-produced by international partners. Foreign partners funded 40% of South African films, an issue that the NFVF would like to address, as they believe that SA films should be funded from South Africa.

On the issue of access, Mr Mbalo said that more money should go into creating entrepreneurs in the townships who operate cinemas. It would be a business activity that should be approached commercially and therefore incentives should be given by the state to black entrepreneurs. Money had been allocated in the NFVF budget to renovate two cinemas in townships as test models for future use, Soweto and Alexandra. The French government had also created a fund called The African Cinema, which would help provide facilities to township cinemas.

Eleven feature films had been produced in the past five years, and would be released on the SA market. Although the NFVF would like to produce films in every African language, funding would have to be provided for in South Africa in order to take them overseas. There is a market and desire by South Africans to see films in their own language, and had the NFVF the necessary resources they believe that they would provide this to the country. The NFVF were excited to welcome the Department of Trade Industry (DTI), IDCS and others to several projects as stakeholders and partners in short films, series and feature films.

Mr Mbalo believed that government intervention was critical for the development of the industry in the next 5 years; thereafter he said the private market should take over funding.

Ms Tshivhest (ANC) asked how many episodes of a story would be needed in order for it to be televised.

Mr Mbalo said that each item would be classified differently, for example documentaries or television series. The Committee would need to take an interest in what happened in the broadcasting sector. The film "Democracy 10" was co-produced with the SABC, but the Foundation had put more money into it than the public broadcaster.

The Chair said that there had been an immense interest in developments in the Film Industry and that they were made aware of both progress and setbacks. In spite of the constraints in terms of funding and difficulties with other departments, the Members understood the competitive nature of the Industry and hoped to see further development in it. She noted the proposal for a Film School in the Business Plan and asked when this would be established. Also, she requested that Mr Mbalo keep the Committee informed on its progress by regularly briefing them on the NFVF activities.

Mr Mbalo commented that a lot of the money needed was situated in the National Lottery Fund and if available each province would get in the region of R20 million for Arts and Culture. An equal amount could be given to each department but at the moment the bulk of money went to Johannesburg and Cape Town. Therefore the NFVF proposed that the money should go to provincial Arts and Culture departments.

Chairperson agreed that the point on the Lottery funding would be a challenge the Committee needed to address.

Business Arts South Africa (BASA)
Ms Danby, Chief Executive Officer, said that she came from a position of ignorance having not given a presentation to a committee before. The presentation attempted to address the specific issues of whether consideration had been given to whether or not the budget has been effectively and efficiently spent as seen in the documents provided.

Mr Khumalo (ANC) commented that it appeared that BASA was operating on an ad hoc funding basis. He suggested that this be further documented for investigation by the Members.

Ms Danby agreed with Mr Khumalo's suggestion and pointed out that the information was not meant as a direct criticism of other departments. She merely took the opportunity to inform the Members of the unfair criticism that the BASA faced.

Chairperson said that point 7 on page 1 was a bit vague and asked Ms Danby to expand and clarify what had been said.

Ms Danby said that the role of BASA within the corporate sector was to convince individuals that the arts were an area that operated with fiscal responsibility, were of interest, thrived and were developing. Numerous dismissive comments had been made with regards to this area from people within the business sector. People had a perception that the Arts sector were not running efficiently and therefore did not want to invest in such a sector. Ms Danby suggested that it would have been helpful if the appropriate intervention had taken place to "squash" that sort of attitude and rumor around the sector.

Ms Madiba said that the input by BASA suggested to her that the DAC "family" needed to meet and examine one another's mandates and review their impact. More importantly it would allow the establishment of whether they had the same or similar vision within the DAC so as to ensure that they were moving in the same direction and made a visible and tangible impact. Those perceptions mentioned would continue unless they listened to one another and established whether it was true or not. She continued by saying that 10 years down the line, departments needed to revisit the Legislative Framework and re-evaluate situations.

Prof Mohamed (ANC) made a general comment that he had difficulties with the meeting. He said that he came with the expectation that each department would give a critique of the budget. However, with the exception of SAHAR, that did not happen.

The Chairperson said that last year the Committee had expressed concern regarding the DAC and had therefore encouraged briefings by the various departments. However the chair did mention that the Committee was now convinced that the department had played a role in the development of the country in spite of all their difficulties. She also said that the Committee agreed that intervention would be necessary within the departments. She concluded by saying that notes have been taken and further discussions would be held regarding the mentioned problems or difficulties.

Afternoon session:
Performing Arts Network of South Africa
Mr M Van Graan of the Performing Arts Network of South Africa, (PANSA), gave background on his organisation before presenting his document. PANSA was established in 2001, as an organised voice for Performing Arts Workers. He complained about the relationship they had with the National Arts Council.

Decisions were made for, rather than with them. Arts organisations worked on other strategies to voice grievances, and were treated like state enemies. Nothing could be done to affect this year's budget. Money was available but the administration and management thereof was not transparent.

An unequal distribution of funds was reflected in the 2004/5 Department of Arts and Culture (DAC) budget. The National Arts Council (NAC) had no vision to develop the arts in every Province. There were neither strategies nor implementation mechanisms to pursue them. Since the appointment of the Board, the institution had been plagued by "go slows".

National Library of South Africa
Mr J Tsebe thanked the Chairperson for her leadership. He said the Library needed R18m to continue with its mission and vision. It had a vision to strive to be a world-class knowledge institution.

The library was unable to continue with its service on the current budget. Public information was an important resource for development and the library was the custodian of this resource. Funds needed to be allocated with a long-term view to help the library build its collection of documents.

The National Library comprised two entities; namely, the research section in the Western Cape and the National Bibliography section in Pretoria. It has different core programmes. The current budget carried a deficit of R6m. The last grant assisted in keeping the library afloat.

Robben Island Museum
The Robben Island Museum delegation looked at the Cabinet Mandate, the Mission of Robben Island and a summary of highlights for 2002/3. They had succeeded in achieving their dream of gaining World Heritage Site status they had applied for at UNESCO.

Some additional requirements were not budgeted for. They appealed for an extra R80m to achieve the requirements. The funds would help to develop the Island to maintain its political symbolism.

The Island had been open since 1997 and this had brought challenges. It hosts about 1 800 people a day in summer and further development was needed. The Island had been managed for the whole world as a platform for debate and life long learning.

Ms D Kohler-Barnard (DA) asked how PANSA felt about the new Director-General and if artists were pressured to change their creations to suite political agendas to get funding. Mr van Graan said although they had had clashes they welcomed the new Director-General. D-G. There was some concern about the Department imposing artistic constraints.

The Chairperson commented that it was important that artists show transformation as much as possible. Mr van Graan responded that artists wrote what they wanted to explore or clarify and that there was room for them to consider some changes.

Mr K Khumalo (ANC) asked about transformation in libraries and a breakdown of the NLSA budget.

Mr J Tsebe responded that the budget did not enable the library to comply with transformation. He added that because budget allocations for some projects were not taking place, it would be difficult to present a breakdown.

Mr K Moonsamy (ANC) said community centres should be transformed into libraries and mobile libraries should be sent to rural areas.

Mr Tsebe said rural libraries had always been on the agenda and the matter would be addressed as soon as there was a budget.

Ms H Mpaka (ANC) asked if the RIM received any international funding and what the relationship was between them and local government.

Mr H Tungwana replied that local government employed information guides and former prisoners as tour guides. Most funds, about 90%, were received from the DAC.

Mr A Nkolwana (ANC) enquired about the human resources situation at the Island, how many people were employed and what their salaries were.

Mr Tungwana said the Island currently employed 186 people. The formation of the Island Museum had contributed to the economy of South Africa as it had created about 560 jobs since 1997.

The Chairperson hoped that future presentations would lead to better budget allocations.

The meeting was adjourned.


04 June 2003


This is a bullet point presentation by the AACA to the current budget hearing. The AACA will present on either of the two dates 9 or 11 June 2004. The following issues will be elaborated upon by the Associations representative:

Art education: Allocation for Art Schools; art tutors/teacher training; development of curriculum and provisioning for material.
Community Art Centres: Budget; what are the programmes, Information centres in townships
Research and Development: Biographies of artists; Historical data; Development of Indigenous art forms and languages
Allocation for Galleries in The townships
Art and access: the language promoted by art/artists; Books and manuals in indigenous languages; graphic
Public space: public art; murals; memorial and environment
Grahamstown Festival: what is the role of government and what funding is put in the festivals; what happens after a group show case there.
Municipality Art policy: developments are needed at local level.

The AACA will appreciate if it can be assisted with travel arrangements and accommodation if possible. We also need a copy of the current budget including the programme so that our participation can be meaningful and effective.



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