DWYPD, NYDA & CGE Budgets: Committee Report

Meeting report

Report of the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities on the Annual Performance Plan (Budget Vote 20) of the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities for financial year 20223/24

Please find the amended report here https://pmg.org.za/tabled-committee-report/5339/

The Chairperson outlined the agenda for the meeting, and asked for the draft Committee budget report to be flighted. The Committee was taken through all 53 pages of the report, making amendments along the way.

During the reading, the Chairperson informed Members that the section titled "Mandate and strategic objectives of the Department" was one of the most important sections of the draft report, especially now that it had been changed. The mandates of the National Youth Development Agency (NYDA) and the Commission for Gender Equality (CGE), had remained the same, however.

(Poor connectivity hampered identification of Members.)

A Member referred to the removal of targets that were in the 2022/23 annual performance plan (APP), and given that concerns on the removal of the target had been previously expressed, asked if the report would remain as it was, or if changes would be made in this regard.

The Chairperson responded that these concerns would be noted under ‘Committee concerns’ in the Recommendations section of the draft report.

Other minor changes were noted in the draft report, such as adding relevant numbers that were previously omitted, changing ‘billions’ to ‘millions’, and correcting several grammatical errors.

Ms N Tarabella-Marchesi (DA) asked why the response by the Department on why they were using consultants, was not included in the draft report. She added that the Department had given their response directly to the Committee, and that this response should have been noted in the draft report.

Ms F Masiko (ANC) said the Committee had asked the Department to provide an exact breakdown of the consultants -- how many consultants were there; how much money was being given to each consultant; and why were they using consultants? This also deserved a response, and the response should have been noted in the draft report.

The Chairperson advised that they noted all these concerns in the recommendations section of the draft report. She agreed with what these two Members had brought up.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi believed that the Committee deserved a more substantive and elaborate report on why consultants were being used, and Members expressed agreement with this view.

The Chairperson suggested that Ms Tarabella-Marchesi send a WhatsApp message regarding her concern to the Committee Secretary, Ms Neliswa Nobatana, who was absent from the meeting due to health reasons.

The Chairperson commented that there was no programme which focused on reaching out to young people. She had brought this up in a meeting held in the past. Her concern was subsequently noted in the draft report.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi interjected that she remembered seeing the Chairperson’s concern being noted towards the end of the draft report. She also remembered the report stating the use of radio as a means to reach out to the youth and persons with disabilities.

The Chairperson stressed her recollection of asking the Department why they had no programmes on reaching out to the youth in the country. She had also raised concerns about whether the Department was working collaboratively with other organisations, departments and institutions. How were they economically empowering persons with disabilities? This was also added to the draft report.

The Chairperson called on several Members to indicate why they remained so quiet in the meeting.

The Members replied that they were either trying to multi-task or waiting patiently for the time when they could ask questions, so as not to interrupt the reading of the draft report process.
 
A Member raised another concern regarding the youth with the NYDA programme -- how did they advocate for young people in rural areas to access the internet? She vividly remembered making recommendations to collaborate with the Department of Communications to compile a programme to reach out to the youth in rural areas about internet access. This was also included in the draft report.

(There were several instances where Committee Members would all speak at the same time, making it impossible to identify them as well as correctly document their comments.)

The report noted that the NYDA had resolved to improve signage and accessibility to offices for young people living in rural areas and persons with disabilities. The Chairperson recalled a time when they were all in Mpumalanga, that the offices there were accessible. There was also an issue of access to the offices of the CGE. She advised that they document their concerns carefully. She recalled there had not been any signage in KwaZulu-Natal (KZN).

It was noted that there was signage in Mpumalanga, but not in other provinces.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi said that there were many vouchers which were not being used by persons with disabilities. The vouchers were made available by the NYDA, but they were not being used.

A Member pointed out that this was already noted in the recommendations section.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi interjected during the reading to mention the several instances they had heard about the University of Fort Hare students who were raped and/or killed outside the university at weekends. There had to be a way to provide entertainment within the precincts of the university to ensure their safety. Despite the Chairperson's vocal objections, she insisted this was an issue. She proposed that they provide recommendations on safety for university students when being entertained.

The Chairperson admitted that she would have no way of knowing how to bring this up as a recommendation, and asked other Members for their thoughts on the matter.

A Member suggested that this required involvement and engagement with the Education Department on safety measures for university students who wished to participate in entertainment activities. Perhaps the draft report should read as, "the Department should collaborate with the Committee, the Department of Higher Education, the NYDA and any other relevant stakeholders on how to implement these safety measures."

A suggestion was made to differentiate between the responsibilities of the Department, the NYDA and the Committee.

Ms N Sonti (EFF) commented that there should be a discussion about safety and security, especially on university campuses such as Fort Hare, where students continue to face danger.

Ms M Khawula (EFF), speaking in isiZulu, referred to those instances where it was stated that there was "no funding," and asked if this meant that there was money which had been allocated, but was just not being used. Or was it only a matter of wording?

The Chairperson responded that it was just a matter of wording. She suggested that National Treasury and the Presidency should consider that if the funding was not allocated in future, it would have a negative impact on the programmes which were benefiting the youth of South Africa.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi added that they should include a note about the Commissioner, who was constantly absent from the meetings. This was done.

Ms Sonti added that something should also be said about the Commissioners who smoked during the meetings.

Ms Khawula, speaking in isiZulu, agreed that the conduct of the Commissioners at meetings should be noted. It was not right that they behaved in the manner that they did, and she was concerned about their lack of accountability to Parliament.

A Member spoke about consequence management, and referred specifically to CGE Commissioner, Mr Mbuyiselo Botha.

The Chairperson responded by asking to be reminded to give an update on the issue of Commissioner Botha towards the end of the meeting.

Ms Khawula wanted clarity on which Commissioner was undermining the Portfolio Committee. Was it Commissioner Botha?

The Chairperson responded that it was not -- it was another Commissioner.

Ms Khawula then suggested that perhaps this Commissioner needed to be summoned so that he could account for his actions and words which may have caused offence. Even the President himself listened to what the Portfolio Committee had to say.

Ms C Phiri (ANC) interjected to comment on the target, referring specifically to international treaties which had been removed from the APP. Although they had been informed that they would return with an addendum, the Committee would escalate this matter to the National Assembly. The Commissioners and NYDA members should present their targets to the Committee. For example, if a certain Commissioner was allocated the province of Limpopo, what would their target be for what they wished to achieve within the financial year? How would the Committee hold them accountable for their targets?

Discussion on recommendations in draft report

A Member said that the problem with the Sanitary Dignity Programme (SDP) lay with the lack of uniformity in its implementation. Other Members interjected to mention the ‘value chain’. The recommendation was amended to state that the Committee was concerned with the lack of inclusion of women, youth and persons with disabilities in the value chain for sanitary products. Members noted that there needed to be capacity built to ensure that women, youth and persons with disabilities had their needs catered for, and even to be trained to become the producers and manufacturers of the products.

Ms Khawula, speaking in isiZulu, referred to an incident of sanitary pads found to be faulty in Mpumalanga some time ago. The companies needed to check their products and ensure they were not distributing faulty products.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi pointed out that in recommending that women, youth and persons with disabilities be equipped to manufacture their own sanitary products, this would put them at risk of competing with corporate giants such as Lil-Lets and Kotex in terms of pricing and quality, since these companies already had a market. This could put them at risk of becoming solely dependent on the government. The issue in Mpumalanga was that the pricing was not accurately recorded. Perhaps they should recommend how women could be suppliers, such as purchasing from Pick ‘n Pay and supplying to local schools, and then expand from there. This would help them establish a market. The Committee needed to ask if this was feasible.

The Chairperson replied that their primary duty was to ensure that women, youth and persons with disabilities benefited from these programmes.

Ms Masiko echoed the Chairperson’s comment, and added that one should never underestimate the ‘buying power’ of government. A few years ago, the total cost for one financial year had been R128 million in KZN alone. The programme should wholly benefit women, youth and persons with disabilities. She also agreed that feasibility should be considered, but this should not mean that they needed to be intimidated by the corporate giants. Government would gladly assist with its ‘buying power’ in this regard, as many government facilities utilise sanitary products. They should unapologetically use the resources which were available to them.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi said she acknowledged all the recommendations made, but also noted the importance of being well-informed about the value chain and the costs. Could they really compete with what was already out there? The Committee needed to do due diligence in this regard and research the actual value of manufacturing the products and the required resources. They needed to be aware of already-existing companies created by women who would be affected negatively by such a recommendation.

The Chairperson clarified that the research had already been done, and they had already contacted the relevant department(s) to assist with the programme. It was unfortunate that the provinces were the ones delivering directly to the schools. They had checked the prices, and there had been contestation of the pricing in Mpumalanga, for example, where sanitary packs were priced at R36. All factors had been considered. Most companies benefiting from the programme were led or owned by men. Few provinces were distributing to women, or companies led or owned by women.

Ms Khawula, speaking in isiZulu, suggested that they should indeed look to women to manufacture these products, as they affected women directly. They would be able to supply stores and eventually end poverty, and this was good. The CGE should go personally to each of these provinces and ensure all was running smoothly. This would be a good initiative for women, youth and persons with disabilities, helping them not become too dependent on government grants.

The Chairperson was reminded of the requirements of hospitals. This was one legacy programme which would create jobs for the youth, and they would supply hospitals. It was good to empower women, but also not shameful to rely on sourcing from well-established companies.

A Member suggested adding the sanitary dignity programme (SDP) framework as the final point. It was currently not in this APP, and she was very upset by this.

The Chairperson suspected that it was probably an omission on their part, as she was well aware of it.

The Chairperson suddenly remembered not seeing any information on GBV in the draft report. She was very concerned about this, and stressed that this should be added to the draft report with immediate effect.

A Member expressed her concern about the GBV, which was a pandemic in the country. She mentioned the care centres in the provinces, and said she was concerned about the removal of the GBV targets and that they had no monitoring evaluation framework.

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi echoed these thoughts, and remembered enquiring about the removal of the GBV targets, which had been met with the response that it was an oversight on their part, but they resolved to add it in again in future.
 
These recommendations were added to the recommendations section in the draft report, and the reading continued, with the Committee making minor changes, such as the wording in certain parts, and changing dates in other parts.

The Chairperson advised the Members to note their unanswered questions to give the relevant stakeholders for answers.
 
During the reading, the Chairperson mentioned the disciplinary cases involving the Department, and thought they were worth mentioning.

Ms Khawula, speaking in IsiZulu, said she remembered these disciplinary cases, and the Committee was still in the dark about certain aspects. How long had those suspended within the CGE been suspended for, and what was the reason for the suspension?

Ms Tarabella-Marchesi brought up the rumours of nepotism which they wanted the Department to respond to.

The Chairperson agreed that human resources (HR) issues should be answerable to the Committee by the Department. They had not yet received a progress report from the Department in this regard.

Last-minute amendments were made to the draft report, such as CGE providing an update on its legal standing regarding its registration with the Legal Practice Council. R930 000 had been budgeted for litigation.

Ms Sonti added that they needed to mention the GBV and homicide cases which had not been followed up on by the CGE, especially those in the rural areas.

The Chairperson warned that they would need to mention specific cases. Speaking in isiZulu, she said the cases were in reference to the ones in the APP. In this draft report, they needed to be more specific and state that it was according to "their mandate," not forgetting that the Council had revoked their licence.

Ms N Sharif (DA) said they should add a recommendation that the CGE should relook at their targets and return with specific GBV-specific targets, and do oversight on the SDP.

Closing comments

The Committee noted and appreciated the hard work being put in by the researchers, who tried their best to capture everything being discussed in the meetings. Thereafter, the draft report was adopted with all the amendments.

The Chairperson gave an update on Commissioner Botha. A letter had been written to the Speaker about establishing a Section 194 committee. She had been called via a telephone conference to discuss the matter, as there was outstanding information. When the Speaker established the ad hoc Committee, the CGE would have concluded all the processes. It was agreed that the newly-formed committee would sit on the week of this Committee meeting. Thereafter, the minutes would be distributed to the office of the Speaker to finalise the process of Commissioner Botha’s case.

She then gave an update on their forthcoming trip to Washington, DC and Germany. Only five Members had been approved for travel. She was in charge of identifying the five Members, and it was three Members of the ANC, one Member of the DA, and one from the EFF. Only one staff member may accompany the Committee on their trip. Initially, they were going to New York, but this was no longer the case. She listed the five Members of the Committee who would embark on this trip. Alternate Members were not permitted to attend. She reminded all to give their passports to the Committee secretary. The trip was from 17 to 24 June.

The meeting was adjourned.