DPWI & CBE 2023/24 Annual Performance Plans; with Minister and Deputy Minister

Public Works and Infrastructure

22 March 2023
Chairperson: Ms N Ntobongwana (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

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Public Works

The Department of Public Works and Infrastructure (DPWI) and the Council for the Built Environment (CBE) briefed the Portfolio Committee in a virtual meeting on their annual performance plans.

The Minister pledged the Department’s commitment to work speedily and implement all the programmes in the mandate of the Department, whilst ensuring transparency and accountability to the Committee, as it was a critical arm of Parliament. The annual performance plan was developed while taking into account the priorities of the national development plan, the medium-term strategic framework, the economic recovery and reconstruction programme, and the national annual strategic plan. It had also incorporated the priorities emanating from the most recent Cabinet lekgotla, which had focused on job creation, particularly for the youth, poverty alleviation, and socio-economic equality and transformation. It had therefore developed seven programmes that were premised on the priorities of the government and the priorities of the Department, which included but were not limited to it being a resilient, ethical, and capable department.

Members of the Committee raised concerns about the targets of the Department being misaligned. They were critical of the suggestion that where no targets had been put forward, preparations for them were being made. They asked if the Department could state how far these preparations were, so that they could reach the targets they had set. Questions were also asked about its legislative mandate. They commented that the presentation was merely a "tick box” exercise, as the same challenges persisted over the years and were presented to the Committee. It was unclear if there would ever be any resolution to these problems.

The Council for the Built Environment said it had appointed and filled the vacancies of all three executives. Transformation was at the fore, and this was displayed by the capable female executives appointed. Its annual performance report sought to address seven interventions that included the capacitation of the state, as it seemed that some of the officials working in the public service were not affiliated with any of the professional councils. In instances where professional errors were committed, there was no way to hold them to account. There would also be aggressive implementation of the concurrent function between the CBE and its professional councils, so there was a consistent and constant supply of officials in the sector. The Council's Chairperson would be signing compacts with the professional councils, to agree on baselines for their commitments to transforming the sector.

The Committee applauded the Council on bringing new councils into the CBE, as this assisted in increasing its revenue and not having to rely just on the government. It said that in the area of policy and legislation, the Committee needed to understand what was being done concerning built environment professionals that were meant to belong to the councils, but were not registered. Was any policy being developed that forced everyone to register with the Council?

Meeting report

Minister's opening remarks

Mr Sihle Zikalala, Minister of Public Works and Infrastructure, pledged the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure’s (DPWI's) commitment to work speedily and implement all programmes in the mandate of the Department, whilst ensuring transparency and accountability to the Portfolio Committee, as it was a critical arm of Parliament.

The annual performance plan (APP) was developed in line with the priorities of the National Development Plan (NDP) and the medium-term strategic framework (MTSF). The plan took into account the economic recovery and reconstruction programme (ERRP), the national annual strategic plan, and priorities emanating from the most recent Cabinet lekgotla which was focused on job creation, particularly for the youth, poverty alleviation, and socio-economic equality and transformation.

Department of Public Works and Infrastructure: Annual Performance Plan

Dr Alec Moemi, Acting Director-General, DPWI, said that when the APP was being compiled, due consideration was given to the key challenges facing the Department, with a major focus on the audit outcomes. The Auditor-General of South Africa (AGSA) highlighted seven key areas for consideration by the Department, and elements of the audit action plan were incorporated into the current APP. The Department was looking at the areas of poor performance to ensure compliance with the prescripts as provided by the AGSA.

Ms Karabo Sebati, Director: Strategic Planning and Performance Monitoring, DPWI, said that during the planning process, the Department had conducted a situational analysis in response to the challenges in the external environment. In addressing these challenges, the following initiatives have been undertaken:

Using infrastructure for economic growth

The Department identified initiatives and strategies to ensure infrastructure was used for economic growth and employment through a partnership with the private sector on programmes to attract capital and skills for improving the conditions at specific facilities.

Transformation in the construction and property industry

The goal was the promotion of employment of women in construction through the Construction Industry Development Board (CIDB), followed by the implementation of the preferential procurement policy of the Department. It would also be operationalising the social transformation circular (Circular 132 of 2022) and implementing the property empowerment policy.

Internally, the Department had plans to address challenges related to the national strategic plan for gender-based violence and femicide (GBVF), organisational capacity and strategies for employment by implementing an integrated human resources (HR) plan through a recruitment drive, and enhancing the information technology (IT) capacity to allow the Department to respond to the changing environment and have the organisation move to automation of critical business functions.

Mr Lwazi Mahlangu-Mthembu, Acting Deputy Director General: Governance, Risk and Compliance, DPWI, said the Department's programmes were premised on the priorities of the government and the priorities of the Department. These were:

A resilient, ethical, and capable Department

The indicators map an organisation's outcomes into performance metrics that seek to provide relevant feedback as to how well the strategic plan was executed so that adjustments could be made as necessary. They give a balanced view of performance aligned with the vision and strategy. The five-year target was to achieve 81 – 100 percent. These targets were based on past performance and the resources available at the Department. They were measured on several output indicators, which include ethics and fraud perception rating, compliance, performance information level, financial performance level, vacancy rate, business process automation, business solutions for digitisation, and financial performance.

Integrated planning and coordination

The Department looked at an infrastructure plan to ensure coherent government plans in delivering infrastructure, with periodic monitoring of the plans undertaken with key parties such as the Minister and Members of the Executive Councils (MECs) to ensure the provincial plans and activities fed into the National Infrastructure Plan 2050.  

Sustainable infrastructure investment

This focused on leveraging economic growth through infrastructure. Within the Department's mandate, the focus was centred on construction management as infrastructure. The Department was interested in exploring the ratio of their projects delivered as part of infrastructure as a whole.

Productive assets

Productive assets speak to the entire value chain, from investment, accommodation and different procurement solutions, to facilities management. The Department was focusing on private leases and looking at ways to save by renegotiating leases at appropriate market rates and entering into long-term agreements. To increase revenue, it looked at how it could repurpose and share some of the facilities for other revenue-generating activities. The Department was also looking to ensure the availability of a maintenance plan by landlords for some properties it was leasing privately, as ensuring adequate maintenance was often challenging.

Transformed built environment

Transformation rested on three pillars. These were the legislative part of the organisation and creating a conducive environment to transform the built environment, which involved a lot of collaboration with the Council for the Built Environment (CBE); developing a skills pipeline with stakeholders to find a way of creating adequate capacity within the built environment from schools to candidacy programmes; and looking at positive discrimination, to assess how much was derived from projects and programmes of the Department where there were designated groups and participants, while considering the number of smaller entities and suppliers to assess the participation rate of designated groups in procurement processes, to ensure their inclusion.

Dignified client experiences

There would be a focus on the relationship between the Department and the client, to ensure a dignified experience for the citizens.

Similarly, the DPWI paid attention to the risks to which it was exposed, to ensure an agile Department and focus on how a resilient organisation could be achieved. Risks included issues of cyber security, external shocks and natural hazards, fraud and corruption, and perceived stakeholder interference. All these would be addressed by having consequence management, awareness campaigns, fraud reporting activities, and protocols for reporting fraud and corruption.

Mr Aaron Mazibuko, Chief Director: Finance, DPWI, said the budget allocation per programme would increase from the 2022/23 financial year, due to adjusted allocations from the Department to the Department of Transport to support the construction of bridges. Comparing the 2022/23 financial year to the 2023/24 year, there was approximately a 28% increase in the budget allocation per programme due to funds of about R200 million that had been received for project preparation.

Over the medium term, the Department would continue to focus on creating work opportunities and facilitating the development of skills in the construction and built environment sectors. Compensation of employees accounted for an estimated 56.9% (R1.9 billion), and goods and services for an estimated 7.4% (R2.1 billion) of the budget over the medium term expenditure framework (MTEF) period. An estimated 85.6% (R23.5 billion) of the Department's total budget over the medium-term period was allocated to transfers and subsidies for the operation of its entities, and conditional grants to provinces and municipalities for the implementation of the Expanded Public Works Programme (EPWP).

The EPWP had a total budget of R9.7 billion, increasing at an average annual rate of 3.6% from R3.0 billion in 2022/23 to R3.4 billion in 2025/26. Of this amount, R610.6 million was allocated over the medium term for the compensation of employees in the programme, and R605.8 million for goods and services.

It was recommended that the Portfolio Committee note the 2023/24 APP and budget estimates of the DPWI.

See attached for full APP presentation

Discussion

Ms A Siwisa (EFF) raised grave concerns about the targets of the Department being misaligned, as the target for the performance of the ethics and fraud programme was between 20 and 40 percent. Moreover, it was stated that where no targets had been set, they were being prepared. Could the Department state how far their preparation was to reach the targets they had set? It was also confusing to have such low targets, and then to turn around and say they were targeting a 100% performance.

Could the Committee be furnished with a list of the completed projects, as the Department was notorious for reporting projects as completed, yet it became apparent that no such project existed upon investigation?

Regarding the prioritisation and allocation of funds to the Department of Transport, was this going to be the only Department that would be reprioritised, considering that the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal still had areas with no schools?

Where were the bridges that had been mentioned located, as Limpopo had to have councillors personally seeing to it that bridges were built so that communities were able to access roads? This was against the backdrop of a crisis of clinics not being built, with those that had been built turning into "white elephants."

Ms Siwisa stressed that she was still waiting for a written response to her enquiry regarding spending and revenue. The Department had said they were spending R6 billion on renting buildings and receiving R5.6 billion, rendering them operating at a loss. This begged the question, what was the sense of renting out its buildings to private lessees amidst a crisis?

Mr W Thring (ACDP) referred to the Department’s legislative mandate, and asked what additional legislation was still required, what legislative Acts in existence needed amendment, and what was the status of dealing with the legislative gaps.

Secondly, despite its importance, the Government Immovable Asset Management Act (GIAMA) had conflicting reports received on asset management due to an incomplete asset register. How and when was this going to be addressed?

He said public investment for infrastructure development was forecast at 7% of gross domestic product (GDP) and at 18% for the private sector. How practical was it to expect 18% investment from the private sector in light of the state of the economy? What was the total budget for infrastructure for the current year, and what were the key infrastructure projects?

Was there tracking of the number of projects disrupted by the "construction mafia?" What kind of tracking mechanism was in place? What was the total cost incurred as a result of such disruptions?

Ms S Graham (DA) asked for an explanation of the discrepancies in the budget on slide 42 of the presentation. Why were construction management services allocated R4.57 billion, but only R473 million in the Estimates of National Expenditure (ENE)?  

She asked about the Archibus/Sage enterprise resource system's costs, time frames, and how many modules needed to come online, because no allocations were made in the budget allocation presentation.

The 20% jump in goods and services was concerning, as there had been consistent underspending on goods and services over the years.

In terms of the allocation to entities, no money had been allocated for the Independent Development Trust (IDT) despite its huge deficit. Regarding maintenance and repairs, the Committee had been told a total facilities management would be put in place -- where would the funding come from? If it came from the Department, how would it run a whole facilities management service that incorporated day-to-day and ongoing maintenance when it was reducing its operating expenses on maintenance in favour of capital infrastructure projects?

Ms M Hicklin (DA) expressed her dissatisfaction, as when she joined Parliament in 2019, the Committee had been told about the immovable asset register and all the issues surrounding it being incomplete, and the Department had made commitments to resolve this. Years later, in 2023, this was still unresolved, and the Department was still citing challenges with this. It was still not complying with the provisions of its legislation.

How many vacancies still existed in the Department, as the budget for the compensation of employees seemed to increase, and the Committee was interested in tracking whether this allocation was realistic?

Why was the IDT still getting money from the Department? The entity was not self-sustainable and did not look like it would be any time soon.

She was also concerned about legislation that needed to be amended and the lack of action by the Department in this area.

Mr T Mashele (ANC) felt that the Department had come to present the report to the Committee as a "tick box" exercise. Over the years, the same problems persisted and were presented to the Committee. It was unclear if there would ever be any resolution to these problems.

The Department's quarterly targets indicated 106 completed projects, and he asked for a list of them.

Every day, the DPWI spoke about the state's capacity to deliver services, yet it was failing to build a capacity for cleaning and gardening services for itself. At what point would the Department start appointing people and stop relying on service providers? Was the Department convinced it would build the technical capacities needed if it still required service providers for tasks such as cleaning and gardening?

The Committee had fought with the Minister in the past to not close the IDT, yet the Department did not display any effort to support the Trust in a way that would allow it to be self-sustainable. At what point would it give the IDT some of its projects?

Ms L Mjobo (ANC) said filling vacancies in the Department was unsatisfactory, alongside the representation of women sitting only at 45%, whilst women in the country were in the majority. This needed to be improved.

The Chairperson echoed the concern about the IDT and how the Committee was instrumental in ensuring IDT was not closed. It needed to be given jobs by the DPWI, as the Department was not using it as an agent, yet it was an entity of the Department. The IDT had not yet achieved break-even, and had stated the support they needed from the Department. The Committee would like to see the allocations made by the Department.

She also pointed out the discrepancies between the budget and presentation, which made the Committee concerned about being given incorrect information. The Auditor General had raised similar concerns.

DPWI's response

Dr Moemi responded on the reprioritisation of the budget, and confirmed that the Department of Transport was the only one that had been reprioritised, as identified by National Treasury. This was not a permanent feature of the Department. This meant the DPWI would no longer be coordinating the development of rural bridges and roads -- the Department of Transport would do it.

The Department would provide the list of projects to the Committee.

Referring to the legislative gaps, he said the Public Works and Infrastructure Bill indeed needed to be put in place, as it was needed for the DPWI to be able to coordinate the sector, to empower the Minister and Department to have the requisite authority, and to regulate the relationship between the Department and user clients in as far as financial arrangements were concerned.

There were also amendments required to some existing legislation, and the Department had been asked to prioritise it in the order it had to be done. The order had the Expropriation Bill high on the list, with other amendments following. The Department was also going to be looking at the Land Disposal Act to help with fast-tracking and clarifying new arrangements.

The Department was looking into the number of projects disturbed by the construction mafia. In this regard, two reports were being kept -- one by the Engineering Council of South Africa, and one by the South African Police Service (SAPS). However, the Department was not tracking any of these, as Cabinet had recommended that it embed the social facilitation framework.

The Department heard and agreed with the Committee on the IDT matter. It committed to seeking National Treasury approval to include the IDT as an additional service provider and implementing agent that could be allocated projects. It was in constant communication with National Treasury.

Other than the unsustainability of the Department, its biggest challenge was non-payment by client departments. Indeed, debt collection procedures could be put in place, but political will was mainly necessary for resolving the matter. The Department did not believe in antagonistic means to ensure payment, such as locking the clients out of buildings. Letters of demand had been issued to government departments that were owing.

In the short term, collection efforts would be ramped up by resolving client disputes, such as maintenance, to ensure clients paid for services due. The long-term solution was to go back to a policy position to ensure money for maintenance and rental was ring-fenced in the government departments for the DPWI. Discussions in this regard had begun with National Treasury, and they were beginning to listen.

He added that the Department was looking to build internal capacities and source some key critical activities.

The Department was moving with speed in filling vacancies. There was a brief pause, however, for the newly appointed Minister and Deputy Minister to get settled into their roles.

Mr Batho Mokhothu, Deputy Director-General: Construction Project Management, DPWI, explained the role of the Department in the construction of the bridges.

The DPWI planned to complete five bridges in Limpopo for the current financial year. The projects undertaken to construct bridges depended on local municipalities and the provincial government identifying sites to have bridges constructed. Based on the Department’s assessment, the bridges would be built if the site met the minimum construction requirements. In the upcoming financial year, it would be building six bridges in each of the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga, Limpopo, North West, and Orange Free State.

Ms Sasa Subban, Deputy Director-General: Real Estate Investment Services, DPWI, said that in terms of completeness, the Department had 28 683 land parcels and 77 537 buildings registered in the immovable assets register. The vesting with provincial custodians had challenges, but the Department had made vast progress with the vesting programme, as 19 732 properties had been vested with 1 733 properties remaining. The Department planned to complete this process by the 2024/25 financial year.

The properties not vested with the national and provincial governments had rates and taxes paid based on the deemed custodianship sector guidelines.

She said the IDT must be able to compete with other competitors, but they would not be able to do so if the Department was not giving them projects. This was, to an extent due, to legalities around National Treasury and how the modality worked, and the current state of how the IDT was regarded. The Department had assisted the Trust with R2 billion to allow it to break even, irrespective of these efforts. The service delivery agreements between the Department and the Trust must be signed and concluded, because for the IDT having to wait till October 2022 was a very long turnaround time for an entity deemed to be a part of the Department.
 
Ms Bernice Swarts, Deputy Minister of Public Works and Infastructure, said that since assuming office, she and the Minister had made it their priority to ensure they met with different branches of the Department and all the entities.

It was clear that the Committee had concerns about the Department’s maintenance plan, and she admitted that the maintenance plan of the Department was indeed low. She said a proactive maintenance plan would always result in a maintenance plan, and the need was for a preventative maintenance plan. Efforts were being made to improve the problem.

She further clarified that, unlike other government departments that use modified cash standards, the DPWI used the generally recognised accounting practice (GRAP) standards, in terms of which the Department did not recognise money for maintenance as revenue. Instead, the amounts were capitalised, resulting in discrepancies in its annual performance plans.

She stressed that the Department could not have reliance on contractors and consultants, whilst artisans were trained by the Department who would then leave. This resulted in the Department not having its own talent base of skill capacities.

The DPWI had raised concerns with the information technology (IT) branch, that as long as there were no integrated systems, the Department would forever have problems. Issues had been raised over its non-digitised supply chain system. The DPWI should not be like an ordinary department, as it was a service provider to the whole of government in many respects, in that it was the custodian of properties of government, maintenance and bulk infrastructure rollout.

The Minister and Deputy Minister stressed the importance of resolving projects that were not completed on time. It must not take the Department about six months to replace a contractor that left work incomplete. This must be improved, and contractors had to be able to replace service providers within three days.

She said the issuing of contracts for basic maintenance by the Department was not sustainable -- it needed to have adequate skills so it could improve its organisational strength.

The executive would come to the Committee when required and would not sugar-coat or hide anything, whilst ensuring the oversight duty of the Committee was not compromised.

The Chairperson said there was some specific information requested by the Committee that had not been granted, such as details regarding the construction mafia. The Committee would like to have this information within a week.

Council for the Built Environment: Annual Performance Plan

Dr Msizi Myeza, Chief Executive Officer, Council for the Built Environment (CBE), said the Council had appointed and filled the vacancies of all three executives. Transformation at the CBE was at the fore, which was displayed by the capable female executives appointed.

The APP had been framed on the three medium-term priorities that had been identified:

Transforming the built environment;
Ensuring that there were skills to assist the state in obtaining its development priorities; and
Creating opportunities for the youth, women, and persons living with disabilities.

Additionally, the APP looked to address seven interventions that included the capacitation of the state, as it seemed that some of the officials working in the public service were not affiliated with any of the professional councils. In instances where professional errors were committed, there was no way to hold them to account. There would also be aggressive implementation of the concurrent function between the CBE and its professional councils, so there was a consistent and constant supply of officials in the sector. As well as the issue of the sector transformation code, an observation made was that codes of conduct of the built environment professionals should include tackling issues of corruption and unethical conduct.

In addressing all these issues, the Council's Chairperson would be signing compacts with the professional councils, to agree on baselines for their commitments on gender, youth opportunities, and transforming the sector.

Mr Phuti Manamela, CBE, said the Council seeks to have well-regulated and inclusive built environment professions that contribute to national priorities and ambitions. Based on its 2020-2025 Strategic Plan outcomes, this would be achieved. These were based on ensuring:

An optimum functioning Council;
A transformed built environment;
Skilled built environment professionals;
Informed decision-making which impacts the current and future operational requirements of the   industry; and
Public interest in the built environment promoted and protected.

Therefore, the CBE identified three priorities to ensure these outcomes were achieved, which were based on transforming the built environment industry, creating skilled built environment professionals, and expediting the empowerment of women, youth, and people with disabilities. As a result, several programmes have been developed:

Administration:  to ensure that CBE had the necessary capacity and capability to support government’s development priorities within the built environment and ensure an optimum functioning Council.

Economic empowerment: to facilitate transformation in the built environment to create more opportunities for women, youth, and people with disabilities. The intention was to have a transformed built environment.

Professional skills and capacity development: to ensure the coordination of an enabling built environment skills pipeline from school to the professional level. The outcome was to ensure skilled built environment professionals.

Research and knowledge management: to coordinate research outputs, provide advice and facilitate knowledge management on built environment matters, including the professions. Outcomes would highlight informed decision-making that impacted the current and future operational requirements of the industry.

Public protection, policy, and legislation: to ensure that the CBE protects members of the public in the built environment, and to ensure the public’s interest in the built environment is promoted and protected.

Ms Sarie Treeby, Chief Financial Officer, CBE, said the Council had shrunk its budget overall by 1.4% in historic timeframes, with a forecast growth rate of 3.1% percent. The economic development and empowerment projects were linked to the professional skills and capacity development programmes, as the only way for the sector to be transformed was through skills development, and it was one of the major inputs into transformation. As a result, these projects were allocated over 9.3% of the overall budget.

Governance issues in the professional councils have imposed financial pressures on public protection policy and legislation. The Council had undertaken to train the boards of the professional councils to try and alleviate their governance issues.

The CBE was a regulator, which meant the majority of the funds came from the fiscus. This was currently sitting at a 0.5% increase for the 2022/23 financial year, to ensure the CBE's mandate was delivered whilst ensuring the protection of public interests.

Overall, the CBE budget for 2023/24 was R58.7 million, of which R54.7 million was from government grants, R2.5 million would be collected in levies from six professional councils, whilst deliberations were taking place for collecting membership fees from the other three councils. There was also a forecast of R1.5 million from interest and targeted revenue.

The majority of the CBE expenditure was related to compensating its employees to deliver on the Council's mandate.

Discussion

Ms Hicklin expressed concern about the inclusion of environmental assessors, geomatics and planners into the CBE, because although these bodies formed part of the ambit of the scope of the built environment, they were not built environment professionals.

On the empowerment of people in the built environment, if the CBE targeted schools, did this not enter the purview of the Department of Basic Education? Whilst built environment professions needed to be marketed to learners, should this not be done by either the Department of Basic Education or Higher Education?

What was the cost breakdown of the presentations at schools where the CBE had been marketed? At what level had they been marketed, and what type of presentations had been made?

In the previous APP and year-end report, it appeared there was a lack of priority on economic development, policy, and knowledge management. Now transformation seemed to be the central priority. What knowledge management research would the CBE be focusing on this year? Who would be responsible for the reports and the monitoring of the programmes?

In public policy management, the Council must be sensitive to the rights of those against whom cases have been lodged with the entity. All parties must be protected against harassment and must be heard independently and equitably. There have been cases in recent years where the independence of the investigation was in question. Failure to ensure independence would result in a total mockery of the vision the CBE was advocating. It had to be transparent and advocate not only for entities it represented, but also for individuals who lodge complaints. How could the CBE guarantee that online lodgements would be independently, honestly, and transparently evaluated in the interests of the whole built environment professionals? Last year this proved to not be the case, and many professionals feel marginalised because of this, as they feel the processes were not free, fair and equitable. This needed to be guarded against.

In the research and knowledge management budget, R11 000 had previously been spent on reports and only R3 000 on advisory notes. How was this under-spending going to be addressed in the coming years? What did the CBE expect to see in terms of research and knowledge management?

Ms Hicklin said her biggest stress was in the area of policy and legislation, because in 2018 and 2021, not a single compliance report had been forthcoming from the CBE. How could the funding of a project be anticipated with such a low growth rate? How did it expect this poor performance to be turned around in the future?

The budget contained a sales market establishment line -- could this be explained to the Committee? She asked for the Committee to be provided with the new Council’s organogram.

On the records of the CBE being stored in the cloud, where was the money coming from for the cloud storage? How would people be monitored and evaluated if records were stored in the cloud?

The Chairperson applauded the CBE for bringing new councils into the CBE, as this assisted in increasing revenue and not having to just rely on the government.

The Committee had seen white male domination in the Council. These concerns had been raised as there was a need for diversity, as South Africa was a rainbow nation. In dealing with transformation, it seemed the economic empowerment programme had been a good initiative of the CBE

On policy and legislation, the Committee needed to understand what was being done concerning built environment professionals that were meant to belong to these councils, but were not registered. Was any policy being developed that forced everyone to register with the Council?

She congratulated the CBE for its clean audit.

CBE's response

Dr Myeza said the profile of the Council members would be provided as requested.

The rationale for the CBE to welcome other councils had been based on the premise that whenever a development was taking place, there were often delays in records of decision, and sometimes the environmental processes were misunderstood equally by the public and the professionals. Having other councils in the CBE would perhaps assist in playing an advocacy role and ensuring when developments started; the environmental aspects were part of the process. The Act of Parliament had not been officially amended to include other councils, but the CBE thought it was a progressive move to accommodate the three professions within the CBE.

The Committee had previously visited 87 schools, which had proved to be cumbersome and time-consuming. As a result, it was collaborating with the Departments of Basic and Higher Education to profile the profession.

The CBE's policy framework talked about key policy interventions that must be made to achieve the professionalisation of the sector. It was unacceptable to have professionals given a huge responsibility by the state to drive infrastructure projects and not be affiliated with any professional body. Value propositions had been made with the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure.

On research issues, the CBE acknowledged they were not a research organisation, but one needed relevant data to make decisions these days. The Council was therefore building capacity for research, where there was work done with an academic institution to ensure capacities were augmented to drive the research outputs being pursued.

Ms Treeby said the sales by the market establishment referred to the levies the CBE was collecting. However, there was no allocation line by the National Treasury.

The cost of cloud storage was budgeted under the administration programme allocations.

Ms Tabisa Mtati, Chief Shared Services Officer, CBE, responded on the managing and monitoring of cloud services, and said the Council was guided by the business continuity framework. This was currently being provided by an external service provider, and the Protection of Private Information Act (POPIA) was considered. The monitoring was done quarterly through the information communication technology (ICT) steering committee.

Closing comments

In closing, Deputy Minister Swarts expressed appreciation for the oversight work done by the Portfolio Committee, and acknowledged its importance. She and the Minister had met with the entities and had requested fully-fledged presentations. The entities were noted for doing great work, and were an integral part of the Department. However, they were seen as disjointed, and they should activate their chief executive officers' forum to integrate and provide coherent efforts.

The meeting was adjourned.

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