Department Capacity & Immigration Regulations: briefing by Minister; Independent Electoral Commission; Films & Publications Boar

Home Affairs

08 June 2004
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Meeting Summary

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Meeting report

HOME AFFAIRS AD HOC COMMITTEE
8 June 2004
DEPARTMENT CAPACITY AND IMMIGRATION REGULATIONS: BRIEFING BY MINISTER; INDEPENDENT ELECTORAL COMMISSION; FILMS AND PUBLICATIONS BOARD STRATEGIC PLANS

Chairperson:
Mr H Chauke (ANC)

Ministry Delegation: Ms N Mapisa-Nqakula, Minister of Home Affairs; Mr M Gigaba, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Dr B Gilder, Director-General

IEC Delegation:
Adv P Tlakula, CEO, Mr N du Plessis, Deputy CEO: Electoral Operations and Mr Zolisa Mafuya, CFO

FPB Delegation: Mr A Chetty, Acting CEO and Mr Z Nququ, Chief Financial Officer

Documents handed out:

Department of Home Affairs Strategic Plan: 2004/05
Electoral Commission Objectives and Strategic Plan presentation: 2004/05-2007/08
Electoral Commission Strategic Plan MTEF: 2004/05-2007/08
Electoral Commission Actual Expenditure since 1999
Films and Publications Board Budget: 2004/2005
Films and Publications Board Budget of Estimated Revenue and Expenditure: 2004/2005

SUMMARY
The Committee was briefed by the Ministry of Home Affairs on its strategic plan, the Independent Electoral Commission on its objectives and the Films and Publications Board on its budget for 2004/05. Concerns were raised about the long-delayed regulations to the Immigration Act; the use of employed persons as voting officials during the 2004 elections and the lack of a detailed and current budget from the Films and Publications Board.

MINUTES
The Chair noted that the Minister had been invited to address the Committee on some of the challenges facing the Department and especially on issues surrounding the Immigration Regulations and the Department's lack of capacity.

Briefing by the Minister of Home Affairs
Ms N Mapisa-Nqakula (Minister of Home Affairs) thanked the Chair and the Committee for inviting her to address them on these two pertinent issues. She said that her Ministry and Department would always be willing and able to engage the Committee on all pertinent issues so that it could be able to effectively exercise its oversight function. She reminded Members of the processes around the Immigration Act and said they would remember that there were a number of problems regarding the regulations. As a result of Cabinet having received various inputs from Ministers and Departments, a Committee of Ministers was established on 4 February 2004. Amongst other things, this Committee was mandated to finalise the regulations and to consider all submissions received by the Cabinet in this regard. However since this Committee could not meet during the election period, the State Law Advisors, together with the Department's legal unit, were given the responsibility to look at the current regulations and thereafter consider all the submissions and comments. In its first meeting after the elections, which was held two weeks ago, the Committee decided that some of the concerns could not be effectively addressed through changes to the Act. It should be borne in mind that all regulations were subordinate legislation and the Department would soon approach the Committee in this regard. A technical team has been set up between the State Law Advisors and the Department to isolate all the issues that would require the attention of the Committee of Ministers, including those aspects of the Act which would require amendment. However, acknowledging the wide spectrum of immigration laws, she appealed that the Committee should only consider those matters that would finalise the regulations. It should be noted that the Department is trying to achieve a three-month target set by the State President in his State of the Nation address and as the result the Committee of Ministers would be meeting again to consider a technical report. Thereafter the proposed amendments would be tabled to the Governance and Administration Committee on 15 June in preparation for the Cabinet meeting of 23 June. It is hoped that the Bill would be tabled for consideration by Parliament on 24 June and passed during August 2004.

The Minister acknowledged the lack of capacity in the Department, but pointed out that an intensive programme to rectify this situation has been launched. The Department would be able fulfil its mandate as the National Treasury has indicated its willingness to provide the Department with the necessary resources to fill its vacant posts and to fund its turnaround strategy initiatives. The Department has been able to fill 1 500 posts out of the 1 600 vacant posts it had at the beginning of the year. It has advertised nineteen management posts, including that of the Deputy Director-General and Chief Director. Two people have been shortlisted for the post of the Deputy Director-General and this post would be filled in due course.

Furthermore a training programme has been developed to empower newly-appointed people. The Minister also noted that the Department had been heavily criticized in the past for its lack of accessibility but that, although the strategic plan did not deal with this issue specifically, the Department would be making a big effort during this financial year to improve accessibility and to ensure that it delivers the kind of services which is required of it. She said that more mobile units and containers that have been converted into service points would be provided so as to increase the Department's infrastructure and thus ensure that it was accessible even in the most remote areas of our country. These were some of the things the Department would be doing in order to ensure that a first class service is rendered to the people.

Discussion
Mr M Skhosana (ANC) asked whether the State incurred any financial costs in the immigration regulations process. He asked that the Minister should also address the issue of the costs and expenditure of the Immigration Advisory Board.

The Minister said that there are no major costs or expenditure that has been incurred by the Board. However the Ministry, through the Department, is arranging to meet with the Board since it is of the view that the current Act does not give the Board any executive powers as contemplated in the Regulations. Therefore if the Board exercises the kind of executive powers conferred on it by the Regulations, the Department is bound to incur financial costs and expenditure. This meant that the powers granted to the Board by the Regulations contravened the essence of the enabling Act as it envisaged a Board which would only advise the Minister on immigration issues and nothing more. Thus the Department and the Committee would have to revisit both the Act and the Regulations as they were inconsistent, especially with regard to the powers of the Board.

Kgoshi K Morwamoche (ANC), while acknowledging the fact that the current Regulations are not in line with the Act, expressed his dissatisfaction with the use of non-governmental legal firms by the Department even though they are not successful and thus proposed that the legal unit of the Department be restructured.

The Minister, while acknowledging the fact that huge amounts have been spent in acquiring the services of private legal firms, said that it should be noted that at times the Department is forced to outsource and asked for outside assistance due to the number of legal cases that were instituted against it. She said that in order to avoid this problem, Parliament should also draft laws and regulations which would stand the test of time so as to minimize the number of legal challenges against government departments. However, the Ministry and Department have recognised that the legal unit needs to be trained and retrained constantly so that they could always deal with the legal challenges facing the Department and hence this unit would be restructured to provide it with capacity.

Ms S Kalyan (DA) asked what financial implications the proposed amendment would have on the budget and whether it has been provided for.

The Minister acknowledged that there would be financial implications and as a result, a considerable amount of money has been put aside so that the Department could defend itself in litigation.

Ms L Mabe (ANC), noting the adverse impact that immigration law might have on South Africa when hosting the 2010 World Cup, she that the Committee would appreciate it if all immigration matters could be finalized as a matter of urgency.

The Minister agreed and undertook that the Department would by 2010 have come up with an immigration policy which is responsive to the needs of the country. However, she said that it should always be borne in mind that South Africa was a haven for other Africans who fled their countries due to various reasons. With that in mind, South Africa has a responsibility to come up with an immigration policy that would cut out the red tape and thus make it possible for these people to have access to the necessary documents which would give them legal status in our country. Without that, South Africa would become a haven for illegal immigrants who were once legal immigrants but chose to "go underground" due to red tape and then became involved in illegal and criminal activities. Therefore in order to discourage these people from becoming illegal immigrants they should be encouraged to come forward and not be afraid to ask for renewals or extensions to their visas or permits should their expire.

Mr S Swart (ACDP), noting that the strategic plan also focuses on corruption within the Department, asked the Minister to explain how the Department intends to address the issue of organized crime syndicates operating within the Department.

The Minister noted that the Department of Home Affairs is believed to be one of the worst departments when it comes to corruption. This is evident by the massive number of South African ID's, passports and birth certificates that were fraudulently acquired through the Department. However, the Department is not taking these fraudulent activities lightly and there have been a number of arrests taking place throughout the country. Furthermore, the Department has also established a unit, in collaboration with the SAPS and the National Intelligence Agency, to specifically deal with issues of corruption and security with the Department.

Mr M Swart (DA) asked whether the Anti-Corruption Unit has been established as required by the Act.

The Minister responded that the Department had established the Unit.

Dr B Gilder (Director-General) also noted that the Department had always had a functioning Unit on anti-corruption and in order to comply with the provisions of the Act, it simple needed to upgrade it and thus established a chief directorate. Following that, the Department advertised the post of Chief Director last week and as soon as s/he is appointed s/he would then head this unit as an independent chief directorate.

Ms Mabe, noting that the Unit has been established on the national level, asked how it connected with the provincial Departments since this was where most corruption occurred.

Dr Gilder responded that the Unit worked very closely in cooperation with the Department's provincial managers, the SAPS, NIA, Scorpions and other related bodies. However, he noted that the turn-around strategy clearly indicates that the Department lacks sufficient capacity to deal with the problem and was thus in the process of developing a proactive counter-corruption whistle-blowing campaign

Ms Kalyan noting the difficulties faced by disabled persons in accessing the Department's offices and facilities, asked what is being done to address this and would thus ensure that the Department becomes accessible to all people.

The Minister acknowledged the difficulties in this regard and noted that the Department is in the process of addressing it, together with other related matters such as queues, signage, waiting rooms and others. Noting that someone tragically passed away recently while standing in a queue in its Port Elizabeth offices, she sent her condolences to the relevant family. She also said that the Department's offices have always been criticized for being filthy and they would be launching a refurbishment campaign on 19 June 2004 as part of their turnaround strategy to give their offices a new image.

Ms Kalyan noting that there is more than 8000 departmental officials who would be undergoing capacity training and that during that period service delivery would be affected, asked what implications this would have on the people on the ground.

The Minister responded that the Department in the process of capacitating its employees. It will ensure that it would not adversely affect the people on the ground in terms of service delivery as the rationale behind the whole process is to improve its service delivery throughout the country. The Department would continuously review the training method and ensure that employees are not sent for training at the same time and also try to provide some internal service training as well.

The Chair thanked the Minister for giving Members a clear response to the concerns they have raised with the Department. He said they could now see that action was being taken in the Department and that progress was being made.

Presentation on the Electoral Commission Objectives and Strategic Plan: 2004/05-2007/08
Adv P Tlakula (Chief Electoral Officer) noted that although the Commission always strived to deliver the best when it comes to elections, were a number of challenges facing the IEC. As a result, a number of strategic objectives were adopted. The IEC hoped that the operational plans they have put in place would be able to address these challenges as it is the norm associated with developing democracies around the world that the more developed the country became, the less the voters turn up for registration and voting. The IEC therefore wants to make sure that this does not happen to South Africa's young democracy. She noted that the IEC had registered its unit standards with the South African Qualification Authority and that this would ensure that their training programmes were formalised and the Commission is able to ensure sustainability in election management. The IEC appreciated the fact that its budget was sufficient to cover all its programmes in the previous financial year, including the national elections, without asking for additional funding. She said that it should also be noted that the Commission has received an unqualified Auditor-General report in the previous financial year (see presentation).

Mr N du Plessis (Deputy CEO: Electoral Operations) took the Committee through the 1999 and 2004 national elections registration pattern and noted that the number of registered voters had increased by 2.5 million in the 2004 national elections. He noted that, while in 1999 women made up 54.45 percent of the electorate; in 2004 that slightly increased to 54.82 percent. He thereafter went through the age distribution of registered voters classified as 18-35(youth), 36-49, 50-60 and 60plus age groups. He noted that the number of youth voters registered to vote in 1999 was 44.6 percent and in 2004 this slightly decreased by 0.2 percent to 44.4 percent. This therefore meant that the so-called youth apathy that was expected was able to be countered through aggressive marketing of registration (see presentation).

Mr Zolisa Mafuya (Chief Financial Officer) gave the Committee an explanation of the actual expenditure incurred by the Commission since 1999 (see presentation).

Discussion
Kgoshi Morwamoche asked what mechanisms are used for determining the remuneration of voting officials since there is a vast difference in the amount received by the senior voting officials and that of the junior ones.

Adv Tlakula said that it should be borne in mind that a voting official work as a volunteer and not a full-time employee of the Commission and as such s/he is not entitled to a salary but is simple given a stipend since the IEC with the resources at its disposal cannot really give such officials a living wage.

Ms M Maunye (ANC) asked the Commission to explain what happened to the problem that arose in the North-West regarding the allowance and whether the IEC had not informed the officials beforehand about their stipend.

Adv Tlakula noted that although many issues were brought to her attention, she had never heard anything about the North-West debacle and thus undertook that she would personally follow up in this regard.

Ms Kalyan asked what criteria were used to appoint voting officials since teachers, and not the unemployed, were used as voting officials in most voting stations and that was not in line with the job creation strategy.

Adv Tlakula responded that since most of the voting stations were schools, the IEC is of the view that it was proper to use the service of the persons who normally have authority over the premises as presiding officers in case something went wrong. The criterion was that a person had to have passed Matric; be politically impartial; not actively involved in any political party and have five years of managerial experience to be considered either as the presiding or deputy presiding officer.

Mr I Mfundisi (UCDP), rejected the explanation on the use of teachers and stated that they were not responsible for decision-making as that role belonged to school governing bodies.

Adv Tlakula acknowledged that while a school belonged to the community and was therefore run by the SGB, it had been "proper" to have a school principal, deputy principal or head of department as the presiding officer since s/he would be accountable to the SGB should something have gone wrong with the school. She also said that it should also be noted that teachers are used as presiding or deputy presiding officers in order to ensure stability and that it would not be appropriate to change presiding officers every time there were elections.

The Chair acknowledged the concern raised by Mr Mfundisi and said it was the role of the Committee to urge the National Treasury to give the IEC more resources so that it could implement the proposed election management training so that more people could be employed as election officers.

Kgoshi Morwamoche asked the Commission why it had not properly trained the voting officials who were used in the 2004 national elections.

Adv Tlakula responded that the Commission had been under pressure to use unemployed persons as voting officials and that some people, although lacking the necessary experience, was given such an opportunity during the last elections. Therefore, the Commission had to relax the requirement, especially for junior officers, that a person should have experience as a voting official before s/he could be appointed. As a result, the Commission has decided to establish the election management institute to train officials throughout and not just for two weeks before elections.

Mr Skhosana asked what would happen if someone who had undergone an election management course offered free of charge by the Commission was recruited to serve in one of the SADC countries.

Adv Tlakula responded that the first thing that the Commission wants to achieve through this institution was to train those people which it normally used as voting officials. The IEC would definitely have to regulate this since a situation where a person would be an independent consultant while at the same time was still employed by the Commission would not be allowed. Therefore, should another African country require the services of the IEC, the Commission would select people from its pool and send them to that country as its agents, something which is already taking place between the IEC and other African countries.

Mr Swart (ACDP) asked whether it would be possible for the Commission to improve its software to provide information which could be used by political parties to compare the provincial and national election results.

Mr du Plessis said this could be done without any greater financial implications for the Commission but it should also be noted that people wanted results as soon as possible. However since a very thorough verification process may take up three to five days to get everything posted to the system, a balance between speed and thoroughness would have to be developed.

Mr Y Wang (ID) asked who developed the actual software for the Commission and whether it had been independently audited.

Mr du Plessis noted that the Commission still uses the same software that it used in 1999 and the only change was to decentralise it. Various contracting companies did this under IEC supervision.

Adv Tlakula confirmed that the software had been audited independently.

Ms Kalyan, noting that in general there was a drop in the voting turn out as opposed to registration levels, asked whether the Commission had commissioned any research in this regard.

Adv Tlakula responded that in its strategic plan the Commission has clearly stated that it intends to step up its research capacity so as to position itself as leaders in election management.

Ms Kalyan asked whether the Commission has done any audit on the election equipment and especially, the zip-zip machines that had been reported stolen.

Mr Mafuya responded that the audit was currently taking place, including the zip-zip machines. He noted that in a meeting that he had with the Auditor-General on 7 June, it was decided that all the Commission's warehouses would have to be audited.

Ms Kalyan asked when the audit would be complete and whether the Committee could visit the warehouses.

Mr Mafuya responded, that in terms of the Public Finance Management Act, the audit report must be tabled in Parliament by 31 August 2004.

Mr du Plessis noted that every zip-zip machine has its own unique bar-coded serial and electronic serial numbers and it was therefore registered when it left the warehouse. The Commission immediately becomes aware of missing zip-zip machine should it not be registered as having been returned. He also noted that the Commission would appreciate it if the Committee could come and visit its warehouses since the IEC would really like to see the Committee much more involved in IEC matters.

Mr Mfundisi was of the view that the use of animal pictures by the IEC to conduct its voter education programme was not proper and a waste of money. He appealed that the faces of party candidates should be used in the future.

Adv Tlakula responded that this would be difficult as some political parties might perceive the IEC to be biased in favour of certain parties if it were to use faces. The role of the IEC is to tell people how to vote and the duty to convince them to vote for a party lay with the political parties themselves and not the IEC.

Ms Maunye asked how many overseas South Africans exercised the special vote during the 2004 elections and how much the process cost the Commission.

Adv Tlakula responded that the exercise was not really worth the trouble as the overseas turnout was very poor. Only 1 500 people voted of which 1 000 were IEC officials and members of the SA National Defence Force.

The Chair asked the Commission to submit the relevant information to the Committee as soon as possible as he was of the view that the resources spent in getting 500 people to vote could have been used to advance another programme of the Commission. He further noted that it was clearly against the law to allow people without green bar-coded ID books to vote and the Committee would not again allow this. Therefore, every South African citizen would be required to acquire a green bar-coded ID book within a specified time-frame.

Ms Gcina (ANC) asked how far from a voting station a political party's information table could be located.

Adv Tlakula noted that this is still a debatable issue since it is not clear what constitutes political activity or a political event. She said that the Committee, as the legislature, would have to look at this matter and come up with a very clear law that would be enforceable in all circumstances.

Ms Mabe noted that the Commission's financial report for 2002/2003 stated that the PAC failed to submitted its audited financial statements and in terms of the law, the IEC was not required to disburse any funds to a political party that failed to submit its audited financial statements for the year. She asked the IEC to brief the Committee in this regard and to explain whether all political parties had submitted their financial statements as required by law.

Adv Tlakula noted that all political parties had submitted their financial statements for the financial year 2002/3, even the PAC. The reason that theirs is not reflected in the Commission's financial report is due to the fact that they submitted it after the report had already been prepared and finalised.

Mr M Phala (ANC) was concerned that some areas did not receive mobile voting stations as was initially agreed and asked the Commission to comment on this.

Mr du Plessis noted that although his office never received this complaint, he would investigate since it is required that the route, the stopping point and time of the mobile station be published beforehand and if they did not stop as published the officials concerned contravened the law. Furthermore, he said that it should be noted that the Commission was trying to do away with the mobile stations and put a fixed station in their stead, the exception might be the Northern Cape where distances were vast.

The Chair, while noting that it is the responsibility of an individual to go to the voting station, was of the view that the IEC should nonetheless organise transport taking into account socio-economic problems faced by many. He felt the Commission should include this in its budget proposal and if necessary take it up with the National Treasury.

Adv Tlakula was of the view that, unless this is done throughout the country, it might create endless debates and create certain perceptions. Therefore, to maintain the integrity of the Commission, they would rather create more voting stations that would be closer to the people.

The Chair, while appreciating that there were a number of challenges still to be addressed by the Commission, applauded the IEC for its performance.

Films and Publications Board Budget: 2004/2005
Mr A Chetty (Acting Chief Executive Officer) noted that, although it is very unfortunate that the Films and Publications Bill is still stuck in the NCOP, the Board appreciated the fact that it had been passed by the National Assembly before the end of the last parliamentary session. While apologizing for not submitting a strategic plan, he attributed this to the delays in having the amendments passed. He also noted that child pornography was on the increase as there were more than 17 000 explicit child pornography websites. As a result, the Board has finally been able to move towards the establishment of hotline call centre where the public can report child pornography. Furthermore, as part of its responsibility in terms of the Act, the Board would be embarking on public awareness projects and would also establish a performance management development system that would be operational from 1 July 2004 (see presentation).

Mr Z Nququ (Chief Financial Officer) noted that since the strategic plan of the Board is not yet available, the budget should be considered an operational budget. Therefore, actual figures from the 2003/4 financial year were used as the basis to forecast the 2004/5 budget plus ten percent for inflation. It should be noted that the Board was a public entity that was not allowed to accumulate a surplus, but it had received permission from the National Treasury to do so (see presentation).

Discussion
Mr Swart (ACDP) asked if Ms Brenda Rudman, a sexual offences magistrate who helped to set up the child pornography hotline, was being considered to head the call centre.

Mr Chetty responded that the Board had initially appointment Ms Rudman as a special officer on child pornography but when the decision to relocate the Board to Gauteng was taken, she indicated that she was not able to do so. As a result her contract had to be terminated and the process re-started leading to further implementation delays.

Mr Swart (ACDP) noted that it was very important that children be taught about the dangerous effects of pornography and asked the Board to brief the Committee on progress in establishing the school safety project.

Mr Chetty said that a Board study had shown that less than seven percent of teachers in the USA, Norway, Germany and the United Kingdom realised the dangers of the Internet and pornography. This meant the situation had to be worse in developing countries and the Board was initiating a schools internet safety project. The project would be implemented during the course of the year in consultation with the Ministry of Education and the Internet Service Provider Association (ISPA).

The Chair said it was crucial for the Committee to know whether the programme has already been developed or is still to be developed.

Mr Chetty said the project had already been developed and would be implemented within the next three months. The Board would soon be in a position to give the Committee a detailed progress report.

The Chair asked for an update on the attitude of Internet Service Providers as they were all very enthusiastic when the Bill was passed by Parliament.

Mr Chetty said the Board had developed a good working relationship with the ISPA. Telkom has shown interest in the drafting of the regulations and they would be meeting Telkom on 11 June 2004 to see how they could co-operate.

Mr M Sibanda (ANC), noted that rural access to telephones was a problem, asked how rural communities would be able to use the hotline.

Mr Chetty responded that the Board had engaged a consultant who would ensure that its educational materials would be distributed throughout the country, even in remote areas.

Ms Maunye rejected the use of an independent consultant, noting that his / her fees could be used to train the youth in a project similar to LoveLife.

Mr Chetty noted that the Deputy Minister had also raised this matter as he is of the view that the youth should be involved in the public awareness campaigns. Notwithstanding the utilization of the consultant, the Board had also started delivering materials to remote areas on behalf of the Ministry of Education.

Ms Mabe asked what the Board's plan was to ensure that its planned public education project reach everyone in our country, especially those coming from previously disadvantage areas and in particular the rural community.

Mr Chetty said that the Board recognised that it had to broaden its educational projects if it wished to reach a wider audience. Manuals could therefore no longer be available in English and Afrikaans only. It thus made its freedom of information manual available in all the official languages of the country as it realized that the rural community formed part of its larger constituency.

The Chair commented that the Committee was not in position to understand the Board's budget rollovers and it would be necessary for the Board to further clarify its budget based on its strategic plan.

Mr Chetty said that the Board, having received advice from the National Treasury, decided to move away from part-time monitoring to full-time compliance monitoring. As a result, full-time compliance monitors would be employed.

Mr Swart (DA) said that while he would have liked to engage the Board's proposed budget, it was written in a confusing manner. Moreover, as the Committee only received the document in the meeting, Members did not have enough time to prepare. He thus agreed with the Chair that the Committee would really need to clearly understand the budget increases and decreases as they were no doubt higher than the projected inflationary rate of ten percent.

Mr Swart (ACDP) shared the concerns raised by the Chair and Mr Swart (DA) and proposed that the Board would have to again brief the Committee on its budget proposals. He also asked the Board to clarify the situation regarding sub-let premises and whether they were running at a loss.

Mr Chetty acknowledged the concerns raised by the Committee and the fact that their budget presentation should have been accompanied by the strategic plan. He noted that the Board would therefore make sure that a detailed document clearly explaining the variances between the 2003/4 and 2004/5 budgets is provided. With regards to sub-let rentals, he said when the Board negotiated the premises they are leasing in Houghton they were unaware of the existence of a basement. As the basement had sufficient space to store the Board's collection, it was decided to sub-let the first floor.

Ms N Mathibela (ANC) asked the Board to clarify what consultation fees meant.

Mr Chetty said that the Board would often require expert opinion and these experts would be paid an hourly consultation rate for their services.

The Chair noted that, while the Committee would wait for the requested information, the overall budget of the Department of Home Affairs would be debated on 11 June 2004. He added that the Committee would shortly visit the Board's operations as part of its oversight responsibilities. In addition, even though the Committee was being pressured to pass the Films and Publications Bill, it was still with the NCOP Committee. He further noted that the Board would have to brief the Committee on the implementation of some of the issues that were raised during the public hearing.

Mr Chetty noted that the Board would appreciate it if the Committee were to visit their offices to see the Board works in action and thereafter be in a better position to perform its oversight function.

The meeting was adjourned.


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