Programme Planning

PUBLIC PROTECTOR AD HOC COMMITTEE
9 June 2004
PROGRAMME PLANNING

Chairperson: Mr I Badie (ANC)

Relevant Documents:
Public Protector Attendance List (see appendix)

SUMMARY
This new Ad Hoc Committee had been set up by the National Assembly into the report by the Public Protector. All parties agreed to study the report but opposition parties were concerned about not scrutinising other documents mentioned therein. The DA raised their dissatisfaction that the report had been "one-sided". Members agreed all parties would study the report and all related documents would be made available to Members. The Chairperson made it clear that it was not in the Committee's mandate to conduct any re-investigation into the matter

MINUTES
The Chairperson said that the purpose of the Ad Hoc Committee was to consider the complaint lodged by the Deputy President against the National Director of the Public Prosecutions and the National Prosecuting Authority. The report had generated considerable interest in the media. He asked Members not to make statements to the media concerning their deliberations. The Committee was expected to report to the National Assembly by 25 June. The quorum of the Committee would be constituted by nine Members. The parties then proceeded to introduce their positions.

Mr R Baloyi (ANC) stated that the ANC 's intention was to give proper attention to the Public Protector 's Report. The ANC was willing to be transparent for the benefit of the public .

Mr T Godi (PAC) said that that his Party was present to address the issues seriously and consolidate the instruments of democracy. They had no pre-conceived ideas of how the Committee would function.

Ms S Camerer (DA) noted the ANC's commitment to transparency with great enthusiasm. The Committee had to use all its powers to resolve the matter, and would uphold all the institutions important to the rule of law. The DA's role was to ensure that the integrity of the Chapter 9 and 8 Institutions were not undermined. She emphasised the role of opposition parties in keeping checks and balances on the ruling party.

Ms K Van der Merwe (IFP) said the deliberations of the Committee were not about the clash between two high-profile personalities, but were about democracy at work.

Ms P De Lille (ID) said that she expected all the Members to apply themselves in a courteous manner and not be emotional or take sides. She then enquired about documents quoted in the report.

Mr M Diko (UDM) said his Party wanted to ensure Parliament played an oversight role. It was the first time in South African history that such institutions had differed in their interpretation of an issue. He emphasised that Members should not play to the gallery.

An ACDP Member stated that they would need the services of Senior Legal Counsel. Ms Carol Johnson (NNP) concurred.

Mr Masutha (ANC) hoped that the Committee would not rehash the matter but to seek clarification where it was needed.

Ms S Camerer (DP) wanted to know how the Committee would proceed, in terms of dates and times.

Ms De Lille said the Committee was empowered by the Constitution to subpoena witnesses.

The Chairperson suggested the following timeslots for meetings: Thursday at 2pm; Friday at 9am; Monday at 9am; Thursday at 2pm; Fri at 9am. On Friday 17^th, Members would decide on other time slots.

Ms Van Wyk (ANC) suggested that the Committee go through the report paragraph by paragraph for clarity.

Ms S Camerer (DA) said there was no need for this because most Members had read the report. There was no mention in the report about the response of the Director of Public Prosecutions to the Deputy President 's complaints. According to the DA, the report was one-sided.

Mr R Baloyi (ANC) suggested that all parties should study the report before Thursday 10 June as it was clear that most Members had not familiarised themselves with its contents, and then they could discuss the report on Thursday. Mr T Godi (PAC) and Ms V Mentor (ANC) agreed.

Mr Masutha (ANC) cautioned Members that they should be careful not to abuse resources by seeking legal opinion even before they had read the contents, but parties were free to consult other sources at their disposal.

Ms De Lille (PAC) asked whether the Committee was just going to review and report to Parliament, or just interrogate the report contents. She cautioned about ignoring other quoted documents that were not readily available to Members.

Ms T Tobias said that role of the Committee was to forward recommendations to the National Assembly but not to conduct an investigation.

Mr R Baloyi stated that all those issues referred to in the reported would be clarified.

Mr K Van der Merwe (IFP) enquired whether the Committee was simply going to accept the report or try to ascertain its correctness and then forward recommendations to the National Assembly.

Mr B Mthembu (ANC) stated that there were no fundamental differences on the positions of the parties. After going through the report, all the concerns of Members would be taken into account about quoted documents.

The Chairperson then decided to go through the report the following day and flag all the problematic issues. The Committee had no mandate to investigate anything. He suggested that they deal with legal advice when legal issues presented during discussion.

Ms De Lille felt very strongly that all Members were entitled to all the documentation referred to in the report. She suggested that all the needed documents would be asked for after Members had read the report. The Chairperson agreed.

Members then agreed to start engaging the report on Thursday.

The meeting was adjourned.

Appendix:

AD HOC COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC PROTECTOR
23 June 2004

Chairperson: Vadi, Mr I

African National Congress

Baloyi, Mr M R
Gxowa, N B
Masutha, Mr T M
Mentor, Ms V
Mthembu, Ms B
Mtshali, E
Sibanyoni, Mr J
Tobias, Mr T
Vadi, Mr I
Van Wyk, Ms A

Democratic Alliance

Camerer, Ms S M
Taljaard, Ms R

Inkatha Freedom Party

Van der Merwe, Mr J H

United Democratic Front

Holomisa, Gen B H

New National Party

Johnson, Adv C B

Independent Democrats

De Lille, Ms P

Azanian People's Organisation

Not present

Pan African Congress of Azania

Godi, Mr T

African Christian Democratic Party (observer status)

Swart, Mr S