CIDB & CBE Annual Report 2021/22, with Deputy Minister

Public Works and Infrastructure

13 October 2022
Chairperson: Ms N Ntobongwana (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

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Construction Industry Development Board (CIDB)

The Portfolio Committee on Public Works and Infrastructure (the Committee) convened virtually for briefings by the Construction Industry Development Board (CIDB) and the Council for the Built Environment (CBE) on their 2021/22 Annual Reports.

Transformation emerged as the overarching concern from the engagements with both entities. Amendments to both the CIDB Act 38 of 2000 and the CBE Act 43 of 2000, were needed to accelerate the pace of transformation in the construction industry and build environments, respectively. However, some Members were wary about the issue of regulations in the private sector. The Committee was informed that some sections of the CIDB Act deliberately focus on the private sector to ensure equitable development in the industry. The amendment to the CIDB Act was on route to Cabinet for consideration.

The Committee heaped praises on the CIDB for its outstanding performance in the 2021/22 financial year and found the qualified audit opinion, based on a technical issue, unfortunate. In the absence of an existing model, the CIDB relied on its own method, based on construction projects on the CIDB register, to determine revenue estimates. The AG deemed the CIDB calculation method improper. The entity was consulting widely with experts, including the AG, to resolve the issue and to prevent it from becoming a perpetual finding. The CIDB achieved 14 of the 15 targets set for this financial year.

The Committee welcomed the unqualified audit opinion received by the CBE but raised concerns about governance issues which were negatively impacting the performance of the entity. The resignation of a number of senior Council Members, including the COO and CFO, placed doubt over decisions that were taken by a Council that did not quorate. The Committee was assured about the validity of Council decisions because the EXCO is mandated, in terms of the CBE Act, to perform certain functions when the Council does not quorate. Resignations were mainly due to professional reasons and vacant positions had been filled by mid-June 2022. The CBE achieved 17 of the 19 targets set for this financial year.

Meeting report

Chairperson’s opening remarks
The Chairperson remarked that this was the third day of dealing with the Annual Performance Reports of the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure (DPWI) and its entities. The briefings were done in preparation for the Budget Review and Recommendations Reports (BRRRs) that the Committee was required to prepare and deliberate on. She hoped the session would proceed just as well as the previous two days. Questions raised by Members were in the interest of the people of South Africa and were not meant to criticise the entities. As public representatives, the Committee must ensure that entities account for the budget allocated to them and the targets they made. The Committee needed an explanation of the audit opinion expressed by the AG.

Deputy Minister’s opening remarks
Ms Noxolo Kiviet, Deputy Minister of Public Works and Infrastructure, appreciated the opportunity for the Department and its entities to account in line with the prescripts of the Constitution and the Public Service Act. She stated that audit opinion was an issue of a technical nature and not of mismanagement. The CIDB was one of the entities that were truly driving transformation. The CIDB was doing good through the B.U.I.L.D programme. The entity, supported by the Department, had some engagements with AG to deliberate on the technical nature of the audit finding because it would have long-term implications if a solution was not found. The CIDB is generally one of the best-performing entities driving programmes to ensure women participation. Although not yet at the required level in terms of transformation figures, the programmes should have the desired impact over time.

CIDB 2021/22 Annual Report Presentation
Mr Khulile Nzo, Chairperson, CIDB, dealt with the elephant in the room at the outset. He felt hard done by the AG’s opinion because the CIDB had been pursuing an unqualified audit. The entity had received comments from the AG in the previous year pertaining to the issue that National Treasury needed to clarify. The issue had subsequently been cleared in the CIDB’s favour but it seemed that the audit opinion was not changed accordingly. He explained that the entity embarked on a BUILD programme which required an estimation of revenue from all construction projects on the CIDB Register of Projects (ROP). The ROP is meant as a guideline for the registration of fees related to projects of R10 million and above in the private and public sector. The audit qualification was due to apathy in terms of the poor participation of clients including government departments to register projects, resulting in the entity being unable to estimate revenue. The basis of the qualification was technical. Stated simply, the AG was not satisfied with the manner in which the estimation was calculated and was of the opinion that the CIDB did not properly estimate revenue from the projects. The complexities around the estimation from projects were not considered. For example, SANRAL recently cancelled a R17.4 billion tender. The CIDB estimation would have been miscalculated had the cancelled tender been included. The AG was engaged on this matter and about the fact that there was no established model for revenue estimation. The AG relied on the CIDB estimation method which it later criticised. This was the only issue preventing the CIDB from receiving an unqualified clean audit.

Mr Bongani Dladla, CEO, CIDB, appreciated the opportunity to be held accountable. The entity achieved 14 of the 15 targets set for this financial year. As a reputable regulator, the CIDB aims to achieve its strategic goals of ensuring an innovative, thriving, and inclusive construction environment through the following six programmes:

Administration
All invoices were paid within 30 days. 96% of the expenditure was paid to BBEEE-compliant suppliers.

Research and Development
The two research studies conducted during the year were aimed at addressing the issues of transformation, i.e. reasons for deregistration of contractors in grades seven and nine, and the impact of tender cancellations on the South African construction industry. Following the studies, the transformation criteria are being revised.

Construction Industry Regulations
99% of grade one to nine contractors were successfully registered within 21 working days. Four industry monitoring and evaluations were conducted.

Construction Industry Performance
The deterioration in spending on public sector infrastructure was largely due to a decline in spending by SOEs. The implementation of projects had been negatively impacted by client departments.

Procurement and Development
23 client departments were capacitated on contractor development. However this figure could not be reported because the source documents could not be presented as evidence.

Provincial Offices
108 client departments were capacitated on the Infrastructure Delivery Management System (IDMS) and the implementation of the BUILD Programme.

Financial overview
Mr Sfisio Nsibande, CFO, CIDB, reported that the entity was able to increase its asset base from R303 million in 2021 to R350 million in 2022. The increase was due to a new income stream from the BUILD programme. The support from SANRAL and ESKOM in this regard is welcomed. The financial position remained healthy as evidenced by the increase in cash resources from R169 million in 2021 to R174 million in 2022.

(See presentation)

Discussion

Ms S Graham (DA) agreed that the CIDB had been hard done by the AG’s opinion. She commended the CIDB team for their hard work and the outstanding job over the last financial year. She indicated that her questions would be based on the Annual Financial Statements, not the presentation. The 66% achieved for online registration was a sign of embracing the fourth industrial revolution (4iR) and making it easier to register projects. She sought clarity on the discrepancy between the number of advertised and awarded tenders. The 28% achieved for collection of BUILD fees needed to be addressed. She was concerned about the government regulating the private sector and sought clarity on the CIDB working with other entities to increase private sector contribution to development and transformation. Government was trying to fix everything at the end rather than at the beginning of a process. Development should start at the school level and through tertiary institutions to create a pipeline of students that would be able to take up positions in the sector. She wanted to know if the R10 million spent since 2019 on the IT system was included in the R14.8 million reported in the current financial year. She questioned the R15.9 million spent on consulting fees for internal work. The cash surplus was an indication that the entity was capable of becoming self-sustainable. She sought an explanation of the payment for retainers and other activities to board members. She drew attention to construction spent being the largest in the Gauteng and Western Cape provinces. The private sector would spend in an economy and province in which it had trust. She was positive about the CIDB’s contribution to the sector and the out-of-the-box thinking that the entity was demonstrating. The finalisation of the Act would support growth in the construction sector. She asked at what stage of the process the amendment to the Act was. She enquired about the role of the CIDB in countering the impact of local business forums, colloquially referred to as the construction mafia, on construction projects. She once again congratulated the CIDB for an outstanding job.

Mr W Thring (ACDP) said he did not have access to the presentation prior to the meeting. He welcomed the 99% achievement rate. He noted that 14 of the 15 targets were met and asked if the targets were at all meaningful. Considering that the construction project footprint was concentrated in only two to three provinces, he asked which provinces had not been reached. He wanted to know why none of the targeted 23 client departments had been capacitated on contractor development. He asked how many of the 153 learners who participated in experiential learning had progressed to contribute meaningfully to the sector as a skilled contractor, subcontractor or artisan. He commended the Department for the number of students who obtained postgraduate qualifications through the Centre of Excellence in partnership with the University of Johannesburg. He wanted to know if the entity had relationships with other innovation departments and hubs. He asked what measures were in place to prevent failures in lower grade contractors and projects in general. In terms of the Act, companies rated as grade seven and above must set up a fund. He was concerned that it would be challenging if a contribution of up to R2 million was required. He wanted to know what measures the CIDB was planning to take to increase the low project registration participation rate.

Mr P van Staden (FF+) noted that one of the causes of tender cancellations was material irregularities in the tender process. He sought clarity on what material irregularities entailed and who the guilty parties were.

Ms L Mjobo (ANC) congratulated the CIDB on meeting the targets. She regarded the transformation issue, especially of women and the youth as a sensitive matter and urged the entity to do better.

Ms M Hicklin (DA) echoed the sentiments of her colleagues about the good performance of the CIDB. She was most impressed by the attitude towards the audit finding and the efforts to meet regularly with the AG and take steps to achieve a clean audit. She wished more entities would be similarly committed. The CIDB was doing a sterling job on a budget of only R78 million.

Ms S van Schalkwyk (ANC) joined the queue in congratulating the CIDB for the sterling job and the overall best performance in terms of audit outcomes. She asked for an explanation about the discrepancy regarding the 23 client departments that had been capacitated on contractor development but were reported as a non-achieved outcome. She welcomed the skills development initiatives in support of women and young people. The reduction in contractor projects was worrying because it was hampering transformation. A concerted effort should be made to ensure that transformation is taken seriously. She was concerned about the decrease in ownership of grades seven to nine contractor enterprises and asked for reasons for the declining numbers. She wished the CIDB continued health with the entity.

The Chairperson remarked that one of the drivers of total transformation of the industry is found in the amendment of the CIDB Act of 2000. She appreciated the explanation about the audit opinion and hoped the issue would be resolved in the next financial year. She was concerned about the low rate of women and youth participation in contractor enterprises considering that women and the youth represent the majority of the population. Something is wrong if the majority is not represented.

CIBD response
Mr Nzo said the CIBD took the AG’s finding seriously and engaged the AG to resolve the matter. In addition, legal and external expert advice is being sought to eliminate the risk of having a perpetual audit finding. The idea of regulation in the private sector was to create one industry and to get a balance of skills in the sector. It was not meant to restrict the private sector but rather to develop a uniform and standard approach by harnessing private sector practices and controls. The decline in the number of contractors in the database was linked to budget decreases. The CIBD was considering reviewing the registration criteria with the goal of employing young graduates and professionalise the industry. The B.U.I.L.D programme was useful for transformation purposes. Material irregularities could mainly be attributed to corruption. For example, tenders that do not suit the preferred contractor get re-advertised to ensure a favourable outcome. Flawed adjudication processes could result in tenders being incorrectly awarded.

Mr Dladla thanked the Committee for the positive encouragement. He attributed the decline in the number of registered projects to tender cancellations and the non-registration of awarded projects. Non-compliance to notices was the major reason for non-registration. Punitive measures are being considered against non-compliant contractors who have been capacitated. The cornerstone of the programme is the idea of a minimum skills development standard for the industry. The expectation is for students to gain experience and become professional and fully trained artisans. The online system was designed during the Covid-19 period and has advanced to the extent of facilitating 60% online registration of projects. The office space and capacity would be used as advisory centres for contractors. The IT system had been re-designed for registration purposes and was in the testing phase for the registration of lower grade contractors. Upgrading the IT system was a confirmation of the digital transformation strategy. Online manuals are being offered in partnership with institutions of higher learning for the development of contractors.

Mr Dladla explained that establishing the compliance, legal and enforcement units would reduce consultancy fees. The only consultancy fees still being paid are for outsourced non-core functions, e.g. graphic design. The surplus for the year had largely been ring-fenced for developmental initiatives and housing permanent spaces to improve the national footprint in all provinces. The payment of retainer fees and fees for other activities to board members were for interviews and engagements with executives. The amendment to the Act was en route to Cabinet for consideration. The issue of non-compliance would be dealt with in a more economic manner other than taking the court route. The one target not met related to the number of client departments capacitated on contractor development. The issue was of a technical nature because all 23 client departments had been capacitated but the management was unable to provide the required evidence as confirmation. He undertook to provide feedback on the number of learners who benefitted from experiential learning programmes. The CIDB intends to increase the number of Centres of Excellence and partner with universities to support research opportunities.

The CIDB was collaborating with other innovation hubs to extend the footprint and improve efficiencies in the sector. Discussions with other entities were ongoing regarding sharing IT, Legal and Human Resources services through the Shared Services Model. Project failures could be attributed to two factors, i.e. clients not being skilled, hence the capacitation programme and cashflow, i.e. contractors need to be paid on time. Despite the many challenges, the CIDB focused on women and youth interventions to advance transformation.

Mr Dladla stated that the CIDB was committed to proper corporate governance and would continue to work with the AG to clean up the audit issue. It was important to have achievable estimates and to provide meaningful information in financial statements. Reducing the number of contractors was a serious concern hence the revision of the registration criteria in the higher grades to allow more people to register. The CIDB had been meeting with the construction mafia. Criminal elements must be dealt with by law enforcement agencies. However, proper social facilitation of projects was important so communities do not feel excluded from developments in their areas. The CIDB was committed to increasing developmental criteria, especially for women and the youth and to engaging with all stakeholders to ensure meaningful development of the industry.

Deputy Minister’s closing remarks
Deputy Minister Kiviet appreciated the accolades paid to the team, whom she regarded as one of the best-performing entities. The overall good results from entities, including the IDT, CIBD and CBE are achieved with the support of the Ministry. The Ministry meets regularly with entities to identify and proactively act on issues to prevent a potential negative impact on results. In addressing the issue of regulation in the private sector, she explained that the CIDB Act directs the Board to regulate the industry. Some sections of the Act deliberately focus on the private sector to ensure the development of the industry. The expectation is to regulate the entire industry without over-reaching. Collaboration within the private sector is done in the interest of communities that need easier access to services. She welcomed the questions and comments from Members because it helped the Department to improve the thought process where improvement is needed. Concerning the amendment of the Act, she explained that the internal memorandum had been finalised after a few legal issues were clarified with Legal Services. The amendment was en route for Cabinet approval. The Department would return to the Committee shortly to finalise the process.

Chairperson’s closing remarks
The Chairperson appreciated the Ministry’s active involvement with the entities. Limitations of the CIDB as the regulator of the industry were brought to the attention of the Committee. The amendment was needed to address the concern that the development of the industry was being restricted by its own Act.

The Chairperson excused herself from the meeting and requested Ms Mjobo to take over as acting Chairperson. Ms Mjobo appeared to have encountered technical difficulties. The Deputy Minister called on the CBE delegation to proceed with their presentation.

CBE 2021/22 Annual Performance Plan Presentation
Dr Sitsabo Dlamini, Chairperson, CBE, said the focus of the presentation was on key areas in the Annual Performance Plan which were at the core of the CBE mandate. Statistics showed that there was still a long way to go in terms of white dominance, decreasing from 73% in 2019 to 62% in 2022. Drastic interventions for the next five years would be recommended to the Executive Authority. The situation required a more aggressive strategy because existing strategies were not effective. The Build Environment Profession (BEP) must reflect the demographics of the country. The number of graduates absorbed in the industry increased from 20% in 2019 to 30% in 2022, which was still very low. More drastic interventions were needed to excel at the pace needed and change the picture. The low number of registered professionals was due to bottlenecks in the system. The empowerment of women, youth, and people with disabilities was receiving attention. The CBE investigated the obstacles blocking women from participating in higher grade enterprises. Registration of women-owned enterprises increased from 11% in 2019 to 13% in 2022. He thanked the Deputy Minister for her leadership and support. She gave the CBE marching orders to implement interventions to turn the picture around.

Mr Msizi Myeza, CEO, CBE, said issues raised during the engagement with the Committee the previous week had been taken into account. He observed that transformation had been a common thread since his first appearance in November 2021. Transformation of the built environment sector is the central mandate of the CBE. To fulfil the mandate, the work of the CBE is structured in terms of the following five programmes;

Administration
Four of the five annual targets for the 2021/22 financial year were achieved. The target not achieved related to the delay in the appointment of a service provider.

Transformation
Three of the four annual targets for the 2021/22 financial year were achieved. Areas that required improvement were not implementing all transformation interventions, and the delay in procurement processes due to clients not submitting supply chain information on time.

Skills and Capacity Development
All three annual targets for the 2021/22 financial year were fully achieved.

Research and Advisory
All three annual targets for the 2021/22 financial year were fully achieved.

Regulation and Public Protection
All three annual targets for the 2021/22 financial year were fully achieved.

Financial overview
Ms Sarie Treeby, Acting CFO, CBE, presented an overview of the financial information for the 2021/22 financial year. The largest source of revenue, i.e. R53 million of the total revenue of R56 million came from the DPWI grant.

(See presentation)

Deputy Minister Kiviet indicated that the CBE delegation was ready to take questions from Members.

Discussion
Ms van Schalkwyk was nominated to take over the role of acting Chairperson.

Ms Hicklin found it deeply disturbing that the CBE did not submit reports for evaluation to the AG. She indicated that her comments would be based on the Annual Report instead of the presentation. She asked for an explanation of factors that led to the non-achievement of the targets under Programmes one and two. A significant number of Council Members resigned during the last quarter of 2021 which meant that the Council did not quorate. In March 2022, she made a desperate request for the CBE to explain the situation. It took the CBE until 18 May 2022 to appear before the Committee. Decisions in the Annual Report were questionable because of the serious breaches within the CBE. She raised doubt about figures being reported based on questionable decisions. The Minister replaced three public representatives who were supposed to be appointed within six months. She wanted to know how long overdue the Council was before the replacements were made and which representative declined the appointment. The Deputy Minister admitted having been alerted to the problem that no appeals could be made because the Council did not quorate. She asked for reasons for the resignations of the CEO, COO and the suspension of the Company Secretary. Not submitting the Annual Report was indicative of serious governance challenges that were not being addressed. The CBE is an umbrella body of six Build Environment Professional (BEP) Councils. She was concerned that the governance challenges would beset the BEP Councils. She noted that Research and Advisory budget was dramatically underspent. She understood that transformation was an integral developmental aspect but was of the opinion that at this stage, money should rather be spent on research and governance in the building environment profession. She found it unacceptable that the CBE was allowed to conduct its work in this manner. The Chairperson is reported to have attended 96 council meetings in the 2020/21 financial year and 10 in the 2021/22 financial year while the previous Chairperson attended only 30 meetings. She wanted to know the reasons for attending so many meetings instead of driving Research and Advisory initiatives. A concerted effort was needed to address governance issues. It seemed that the CBE was becoming more hands-on in day-to-day work. The CBE did not get her vote of confidence.
 
Ms Graham congratulated the CBE for achieving a clean audit. It was concerning that not all the transformation targets had been met considering that it was one of the key target areas. Her understanding was that the CBE had an advisory role. She needed to understand why the CBE hosted four marketing activities on various radio stations instead of assisting existing councils. She was pleased that the CBE was engaging schools because it was at the grassroots level that transformation should start. She was concerned about the over-expenditure and under-achievement in the transformation target. She wanted to know the benefits of being a CBE member were and if the seven voluntary associations that have not been registered, were posing a threat. She was unsure if the CBE understood its mandate and questioned the need for the entity because of the overlapping roles of the Departments of Health and Labour. She asked if the CBE enjoyed recognition by equivalent bodies internationally and if the entity was collaborating with similar bodies in other parts of the world. She sought clarity on the 100% vacancy rate. The income from activities compared to the income from the government was an indication that the entity did not have the capacity to become independent. She stated that the 111 meetings attended by the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson seemed excessive. She wanted to know if charges had been laid against the Supply Chain Management official responsible for the irregular expenditure which had been carried over from the previous financial year. It was important to recover losses and apply consequent management.

Ms van Schalkwyk commended the CBE for the continuous clean audits and achieving 83% of the targets. She urged the CBE to ensure that the development pipeline is implemented. She asked if the CBE was working with engineering faculties of universities and if it was able to influence the curriculum. She wanted to know how the CBE was assisting with environmentally friendly initiatives. She wanted to know if the 87 skills development and awareness campaigns were held in all nine provinces and if disadvantaged communities were also benefitting from these programmes.

CBE response
Ms Treeby replied that financial statements had been submitted and could be found on pages 143 to 145 of the AG’s report. In response to the underspending of the Research and Advisory budget, she explained that a service provider was engaged to develop a Knowledge Management Hub. The project had only been finalised in the new financial year. Responding to the comment about being a funded entity, she remarked that an additional budget would be identified from the revenue enhancement strategy. The case of irregular expenditure has been reported and is being investigated by the SAPS.

Mr Phuti Manamela, Acting COO, CBE, advised Members to view the activities related to transformation targets on page 47 of the Annual Report. The CBE has been able to contribute towards transformation in terms of procurement and contribution to national infrastructure planning. Transformation targets not achieved were due to third-party documents that the CBE was unable to get from the Departments of Women, Youth and People with Disabilities, and Human Settlements. He explained that voluntary associations are required to meet certain requirements to qualify as members. Career awareness programmes had been rolled out in all nine provinces including in deep rural areas. The purpose of the radio marketing campaigns was to publicise awareness of the programmes.

Mr Myeza welcomed the comments. Responding to Ms Hicklin, he stated that all governance issues had been addressed when the CBE appeared before the Committee in May 2022. He acknowledged the instability that is caused by the resignations. The Minister had since appointed new council members. He explained that the Appeals Committee is an independent body of professionals dealing with matters on a three-year timeline. He remarked that the resignations were done for professional reasons. The COO joined the DPWI as Deputy Director-General and the contract of the CFO would be ending at the end of 2023. The appointment process would shortly be concluded. A just and fair process is being followed to deal with the suspension of the Company Secretary. The CBE would engage the Committee on this issue in the near future. The CBE would be paying attention to the Research and Advisory function to provide up-to-date information about the built environment to the Minister and the Committee. The CBE was working with schools and universities on programmes to assist in developing the skills pipeline. Areas in districts that require attention are targeted. The reason for not achieving one of the transformation targets was an administration issue, i.e. the CBE was not able to access third-party documents. He urged Members to appreciate the work of the Councils and the CBE. He acknowledged that the marketing could have been done differently, e.g. by demonstrating the role that the CBE was playing. Collaboration with Councils should assist the work of the CBE. The CBE was participating in studies that the Councils are driving and was working with universities to align the curriculum with responding to the needs of the country. He agreed that the CBE must get involved in influencing structures and infrastructure requirements from a climate change perspective. The CBE was working with municipalities to change the approach in response to the climate change agenda. He acknowledged that more collaboration would increase the footprint. The intention is to amplify awareness programmes. The Deputy Minister advised the CBE to collectively drive awareness programmes and to target poor districts.

Dr Dlamini said the only time the CBE did not quorate was in February 2022. Appointments were made by mid-June 2022 to fill vacant positions. Resignations were mainly due to terms of office that were not aligned. Recommendations were made to remedy the problem in the next term. The person who declined the nomination had committed herself to other responsibilities. The CEO requested early retirement to pursue PhD studies and the COO was offered a package that the CBE could not match. There was never a vacuum in terms of governance oversight because the CBE Act mandates the EXCO to perform certain functions on behalf of the Council when it does not quorate. He questioned the accuracy of the number of meetings that he reportedly attended and said an investigation would be conducted. He cited from personal experience to illustrate the complexity of the transformation issue. In 1993, he was denied entry to study architecture at universities and ended up studying at the Northern Transvaal Technikon where only four from the class of 36 graduated with diplomas. As a graduate, gaining the experience needed to register as a professional was difficult. The situation still exists, and even registered professionals face exclusion from employment. After all these years, 60% of black registered professionals are unemployed. Existing strategies and gatekeeping must be seriously reviewed because it is unacceptable that only 38% of a population of 90% are registered as professionals.

Deputy Minister’s closing remarks
Deputy Minister Kiviet said working with tertiary institutions had been discussed in quarterly meetings. Recommendations included creating professional services units where entities could attend skills development programmes. Registrars must coordinate the design of skills development programmes with the SETA and higher education institutions to accommodate more learners. Programmes should not be limited to some of the schools. She had instructed the entity to have one strategy that would have a massive impact and target more schools. To extend the footprint throughout the country, more universities should be approached to offer Build Environment courses. Most entities were concentrated around the Gauteng, Western Cape and KwaZulu-Natal provinces. The CBE had been driving the issue of regulation in the profession to increase the footprint in all nine provinces. The radio campaigns were meant to raise awareness amongst young people in remote areas on how to access the profession. The CBE must intervene at the university level where only three out of 30 students are able to pass.

All stakeholders must collaborate to have the desired impact. The Department of Basic Education must support programmes to enhance mathematics. In addressing the concern about the excessive number of meetings, she said agility in leadership required multiple engagements, travel and meetings. Attending meetings is unavoidable in such an environment, and oversight requires travelling to engage with stakeholders. The test should be the content and not the number of meetings. She understood that people were impatient with the level of transformation and that some parties were against affirmative action. But the Employment Equity Act is the law and the policy must be implemented to ensure that those who had previously been denied, have access. Members were urged to view transformation from a positive angle and not regard it as a demon. She appreciated the questions because it helped with the thought process to reflect on the past and chart the way forward.

Acting Chairperson’s closing remarks
Ms van Schalkwyk agreed that transformation is a highly emotive issue which should not be downplayed. Some people must work extra hard to prove themselves. The Act should assist in creating the legal framework to address all the challenges. She thanked the Deputy Minister, CBE team, and Members for the engagement.

The meeting was adjourned.

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