Commission for Gender Equality vacancies: Interviews day 2

Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities

21 September 2022
Chairperson: Ms C Ndaba (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Video (Part 1)

Video (Part 2)

Summary of Shortlisted Candidates

The Portfolio Committee held a hybrid meeting to interview ten shortlisted candidates to fill vacancies in the Commission for Gender Equality (CGE). They were Ms Bernadine Bachair, Ms Candice Chirwa, Ms Pulani Noko Thobejane, Ms Lindiwe Khonjelwayo, Ms Sarah Charity Mokwebo, Ms Magdalene Moonsamy, Leonashia Leigh-Ann van der Merwe, Ms Zoleka Susan Ponoane, Ms Pontsho Pilane and Mr Itumeleng Mmusi.

Day 2's interview process and questions were similar to the previous day. In addition, Members sought clarity on concerns raised in the public comment process about several candidates. There was much discussion on public participation and how to augment it. The interviewee responses are available on the video.

Meeting report

At the beginning of each interview, the Chairperson explained to the candidate that the interview process would last 45 minutes and that English should be used as the primary language for communication since there was no interpreter present. However, the candidate may occasionally use a language of their preference to explain certain terms should they struggle to find the exact word in English. Thereafter, the candidates were given five minutes to introduce themselves.

At the end of each interview, the candidates were asked if they had questions of clarity. The Chairperson explained what would happen next and that the candidate would be kept informed of the outcome in due course. The Committee’s job was to make recommendations to the President, who made the final appointments.

Candidate 1: Ms Bernadine Bachair
Ms F Masiko (ANC) asked the candidate what her understanding was of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding of the role of a CGE Commissioner was.

The Chairperson asked the candidate if there was legislation she would be looking to amend if appointed as Commissioner.

Ms B Marekwa (ANC) noted the wide mandate as set out in the CGE Strategic Framework 2019-2024. However, most South Africans regardless of gender, sexual orientation and race are still facing discrimination on a daily basis. She asked the candidate to give an assessment on whether CGE’s work was making an impact in the public and private sector. How can it reposition itself given its wide mandate? In what areas has the CGE successfully achieved its mandate and which areas need improvement?

Ms C Phiri (ANC) asked the candidate to name all eight international treaties and what changes the candidate believed those treaties would make. She asked what the candidate’s leadership role would be in coming up with implementable policy for the country and the continent at large.

Ms M Hlengwa (IFP) asked the candidate to convince the panel by describe one instance that showed her leadership skill in organising and doing things professionally.

Ms N Sharif (DA) described GBVF as a pandemic in South Africa and government had put in place a plan to tackle the issue. She thus asked the candidate three questions.
- to give the details of government’s plan to combat GBVF and to identify the three GBVF bills.
- how CGE can give effect to the relevant plans and legislation that deal with combating GBVF.
- what activities CGE could undertake to create awareness of and to combat GBVF.

Ms N Hlonyana (EFF) remarked that the candidate’s advocacy for sex workers would have made Ms Naledi Chirwa very happy.

The Committee was of the view that it was critical to have good communication amongst Commissioners for the stability of CGE. She asked the candidate if she regarded excellent communication skills a key quality for a CGE Commissioner and if she viewed herself as someone with those attributes.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate how she planned for CGE to make inroads in rural areas to increase its visibility in those areas.

Ms Hlonyana asked for the candidate's view on how CGE could strengthen its monitoring and evaluation system.

Ms Hlongo (ANC) asked, if appointed, how the candidate planned to ask government, public entities as well as the private sector to mainstream gender in order to achieve equality.

The Chairperson said that newspapers often cover CGE in a negative light and she asked the candidate how she planned to get them to shed a positive light on CGE and let the organisation be a hope to people.

Ms T Masondo (ANC) said the key CGE strategic outcomes for 2019-2024 are to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess whether it had been done successfully and what innovative methods the candidate would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to CGE.

The Chairperson said that CGE has nine offices in all provinces and asked the candidate if she believed those locations were helpful in CGE carrying out its mandate. In the candidate’s own experience based in the Western Cape, what was her observation about this?

Candidate 2: Ms Candice Chirwa
Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding was of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding of the role of a CGE Commissioner was.

Ms Marekwa noted the wide mandate as set out in the CGE Strategic Framework 2019-2024. However, most South Africans regardless of gender, sexual orientation and race are still facing discrimination on a daily basis. She asked the candidate to give an assessment on whether CGE’s work was making an impact in the public and private sector. How can it reposition itself given its wide mandate? In what areas has the CGE successfully achieved its mandate and which areas need improvement?

Ms Hlongo asked the candidate as a young woman, if appointed, what she would do to bring CGE to rural areas to ensure that other young girls also have access to it.

Ms Hlongo asked the candidate her understanding of gender discrimination, homophobia and intolerance towards non-binary persons.

Ms Sharif described GBVF as a pandemic in South Africa and government had put in place a plan to tackle the issue. She thus asked the candidate three questions.
- to give the details of government’s plan to combat GBVF and to identify the three GBVFbills.
- how CGE can give effect to the relevant plans and legislation that deal with combating GBVF.
- what activities CGE could undertake to create awareness of and to combat GBVF.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had litigation experience and, if so, to provide details.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had any managerial experience and if so, to highlight the specific management skills she possessed.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had advocacy experience and to provide details if the candidate had.

Ms Hlengwa asked why she believed she was a suitable candidate for the position. She asked the candidate to convince the panel by describing one instance that showed her leadership skill in organising and doing things professionally.

Ms Phiri said that s187 of the Constitution and section 11(1) of the CGE Act empower the CGE to monitor compliance with international human rights treaties. She asked the candidate what she believed CGE's role should be in ensuring South Africa’s compliance with international conventions, covenants and charters.

She noted nine treaties and asked the candidate to deliberate on those. She asked if she has read any of CGE recommendation reports and what needed improving.

Ms Phiri asked if the candidate believed that CGE was doing better in terms of compliance with those treaties.

Ms Masiko agreed with the candidate’s view on menstruation and sanitary towels and said that the Committee should engage the Department to check the progress on this.

Ms Masondo stated that the key CGE strategic outcomes of 2019-2024 state that it intends to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods she would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to CGE.

Candidate 3: Ms Pulani Noko Thobejane
Ms Masiko said that it was likely that the candidate had come across CGE in the past and asked her understanding of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate to explain the roles of a CGE Commissioner.

The Chairperson followed up on the candidate’s response and asked if CGE was monitoring Parliament or being accountable to Parliament. She further asked when a law was passed, which organ of state was responsible for the implementation.

Mr Mphithi found it concerning that some of the CGE provincial offices hardly received any complaints from women. Thus he asked the candidate to comment if she believed those provincial offices were effective in fulfilling CGE’s mandate and to state the reasons she believed so.

Mr Mphithi further asked the candidate to indicate how she planned to make CGE offices more accessible to the most vulnerable in the country.

Ms Masondo stated that the key strategic outcomes of 2019-2024 state that CGE intends to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods she would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to CGE.

The Chairperson asked the candidate if she was familiar with the strategic plan, if the strategic outcome had been carried out successfully and what innovative methods the candidate would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to CGE.

Ms Hlonyana noted the candidate had seventeen years as a child and youth care worker. She asked if she had any managerial experience and if so, to provide details and highlight the specific management skills she possessed.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had litigation experience and to provide details if the candidate had.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate how she would serve the Commission in an impartial way given that the candidate had been an ANC MP.

Ms Marekwa stated the Constitution stipulates that all Chapter Nine institutions must be impartial and carry out their functions without fear, favour or prejudice. She asked why the Constitution required all Chapter 9 institutions to be independent and impartial.

She asked if the candidate regarded herself as an independent-minded and impartial person. If yes, she asked the candidate to demonstrate why.

Ms Sharif described GBVF as a pandemic in South Africa. Government had put in place a plan to tackle this. She asked the candidate to identify the three GBVF bills government had passed and to elaborate on government’s plan to combat GBVF.

Ms Sharif asked the candidate to give input on how CGE can give effect to the plan and legislation that deal with combating GBVF.

Ms Sharif asked the candidate in her view what activities CGE could undertake to create awareness and to combat GBVF.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate to convince the panel by describing an example that showed her leadership skill in being able to organise and do things professionally.

Candidate 4: Ms Lindiwe Khonjelwayo
Before the Committee asked questions, the candidate indicated that she had a criminal record.

The Chairperson said that although the Committee had not received feedback from the State Security Agency, it noted Ms Khonjelwayo’s criminal record. The incident had happened in 1995 when the candidate was a child and she had been charged with assault. At the time, she had been cautioned and the charge was dropped. The candidate could not recall the detail of the incident. The candidate only became aware of the criminal record when she was looking for a job in the Department of Education. The candidate had assured the Committee that she had applied for expungement.

The Chairperson noted the 46 public comments that had endorsed the nomination of the candidate for CGE Commissioner post.

Ms Masiko appreciated the candidate’s honesty and transparency.

Since the purpose of Chapter 9 institutions was to strengthen constitutional democracy, Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding was on the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding was of the role of a CGE Commissioner.

After hearing the candidate’s response, Ms Masiko asked her to elaborate if she had any involvement in CGE advocacy and public education whilst working at her school.

Mr Mphithi thanked the candidate for her honesty and reassured the public that the Committee took public participation and their comments in a very serious manner. He noted a few concerns arising from the public comments were related to the candidate's work in government. He asked her to indicate if she currently is working in or has a working relationship with government institutions.

Mr Mphithi asked how much the candidate knew about the work of CGE’s provincial offices in communities.

Ms Sharif noted the candidate’s experience in the local government sphere and asked about her opinion on the National Strategic Plan on GBVF and how the candidate had implemented it in her scope of work.

Ms Masiko reminded the Committee that it still had to engage with some of the NYDA candidates because a lot of valuable ideas had emerged in that interview process which could assist the Committee’s work.

Ms Hlongo asked the candidate what she would do to ensure that gender equality policy was achieved in the private sector.

Ms Hlongo asked the candidate to explain her understanding of CGE corporate governance.

Ms Masiko noted the candidate's response about pushing the monitoring of gender equality in the private sector. She asked her to elaborate on how she thought that the Committee should give more power to CGE to push for greater gender equality in the private sector.

Ms Hlonyana noted the candidate speaking about graduating as an educator who then could not get a job when she moved to Gauteng in 2000. She expected the candidate to give more gender-focused responses. She asked the candidate four questions:
- if the candidate had litigation experience and to provide details if the candidate had.
- if she had policy or legislative review experience and to provide details if she had.
- if she had advocacy experience and to provide details if she had.
- to highlight any management experience and skills she possessed.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate to convince the panel why she was the most suitable candidate for the post and describe one instance that showed her leadership skill in organising and doing things professionally.

Ms Phiri asked the candidate to indicate how she would handle the pressure and conflicts that emanate from different organisational cultures.

Ms Phiri said that s187 of the Constitution and section 11(1) of the CGE Act empower the CGE to monitor compliance with international human rights treaties. She asked the candidate what she believed CGE's role should be in ensuring South Africa’s compliance with international conventions, covenants and charters.

Ms Marekwa noted the candidate’s passion for all the work that she had done so far and appreciated the candidate’s contribution to young boys and girls.

Ms Marekwa asked why the Constitution required all Chapter 9 institutions to be independent and impartial.

She asked if the candidate regarded herself as an independent-minded and impartial person. If yes, she asked the candidate to demonstrate why.

Candidate 5: Ms Sarah Charity Mokwebo
Since the purpose of Chapter 9 institutions was to strengthen constitutional democracy with CGE's focus on attaining gender equality, Ms Masiko asked for the candidate's understanding of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding was of the role of a CGE Commissioner.

Ms Sharif described GBVF as a pandemic in South Africa and asked the candidate what roles CGE could undertake to create awareness of and to combat GBVF.

Ms Hlonyana asked which government departments the candidate had worked at so Members could get a better idea of the particular skill sets she possessed.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had managerial experience. If so, she asked her to highlight the specific management skills she possessed.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she regarded communication as key to being a CGE Commissioner. What is the candidate’s opinion on effective communication and if she believed herself to posses that attribute?

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had litigation experience. If so, she asked her to provide details.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had any legislative or policy review experience.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had advocacy experience and to provide details if she had.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate to demonstrate her understanding on being a non-partisan CGE Commissioner.

Mr Mphithi had seen a lot of the candidate’s work and involvement in the gender space and described this as incredible. He noted that he and Ms Mokwebo had been to the same university and had run against one another in campaigns for different political parties.

Mr Mphithi asked if the candidate’s employment at National Treasury would be a conflict of interest to the CGE position.

The Chairperson asked if the candidate was applying for the full-time or part-time Commissioner position.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate’s opinion – as an activist who has been in the space for many years – on the work that CGE has done thus far. In his opinion, there are many aspects of CGE work that needs to be reviewed and more innovative and creative ideas need to be included into its work. He asked the candidate to indicate what types of ideas she would bring to CGE in terms of its value proposition and business model.

Ms Masondo stated that the key strategic outcomes of 2019-2024 state that CGE intends to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods she would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to CGE.

Ms Marekwa stated the Constitution stipulates that all Chapter Nine institutions must be independent and impartial. She asked why the Constitution required this.

She asked if the candidate regarded herself as an independent-minded and impartial person. If yes, she asked her to demonstrate why.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate why she believed that she was a suitable candidate for the position. She asked the candidate to convince the panel by providing Members with an example that showed her leadership style.

Candidate 6: Ms Magdalene Moonsamy
The Chairperson informed the candidate that OUTA stated that Ms Moonsamy was an active director of four companies and a non-executive director at Armscor. This with her other responsibilities would impact on her ability to fulfil her responsibility as a Commissioner and the directorships and other collaboration would be potential conflict of interest. Ms Moonsamy had resigned from Parliament on 12 January 2015 and as EFF Treasurer General. There were several media articles of concern about the candidate. Those articles invariably implicated the candidate in adverse ways or about criminal charges.

The Chairperson asked Ms Moonsamy to provide an explanation to Committee Members.

Ms Marekwa asked the candidate what her understanding was of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Marekwa asked the candidate what her understanding was of the role of a CGE Commissioner.

Ms Masondo stated that the key strategic outcomes of 2019-2024 state that CGE intends to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods she would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to CGE.

Ms Phiri noted the candidate’s experience in having been part of international committees. She asked the candidate if she was familiar with the recommendations of the CEDAW Shadow Report.

Since the candidate had not read those recommendations, she asked the candidate, if appointed, how she would strengthen the monitoring and evaluation system on international treaties. She asked the candidate to specify what the difference would be between her approach and what CGE was currently doing now.

Ms Phiri highlighted the LGBTQI+ community issues which most international communities have not accepted or have not even realised their existence. She asked for the candidate’s approach and methods to raise awareness of and increase the visibility of this community.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate why she believed that she was the most suitable candidate for the position. She asked the candidate to convince the panel by describe one instance that showed her leadership skill in organising and doing things professionally.

Mr Mphithi liked the candidate’s inputs on indicators as big ideas do not change things and it is the small indicators that lead to changes.

Mr Mphithi noted there were a number of high-profile officials such as ministers and deputy ministers that were under investigation in this Sixth Term. Given the candidate’s political involvement, he asked if her decision as a CGE Commissioner to pursue investigating an official would be misconstrued by the public as politically motivated.

Mr Mphithi followed up and explicitly stated if her presence as a CGE Commissioner would undermine the independence of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution.

Ms Sharif described that GBVF continued to ravage South Africa and government had put in place a National Strategic Plan and three GBVF bills to tackle this. She thus asked the candidate about her perception of the GBVF National Strategic Plan and how successful the plan was in addressing the issue. As a Commissioner, how would she ensure that the National Strategic Plan was looked at and GBVF was combated.

Ms Hlonyana noted the candidate’s busy work schedule and was uncertain if she would be able to spend sufficient hours to honour the responsibilities required of a Commissioner.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she regarded communication as key to being a CGE Commissioner. What is the candidate’s opinion of someone who is able to communicate effectively and if the candidate believed herself to possess that attribute?

Ms Hlonyana remarked that serving the people of South Africa is a calling. She asked the candidate if she could not find joy at CGE, would she resign or stay in the organisation no matter the difficulty she would face?

Ms Hlongo asked the candidate, if appointed, how she would reach out to rural women who had no idea of CGE, had no social media and no basic knowledge of English.

Candidate 7: Leonashia Leigh-Ann van der Merwe
Ms Masiko commended the candidate’s advocacy for transgender women. She asked the candidate's understanding of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding was of the role of a CGE Commissioner.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate to clarify her areas of studies in her undergraduate and postgraduate years.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had advocacy experience and to provide details if she had.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had legislative or policy review experience.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had managerial experience. If so, to highlight the specific management skills she possessed.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if she had litigation experience. If so, she asked her to provide details.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate to convince the panel why she was the most suitable candidate for the post and describe one instance that showed her leadership skill in organising and doing things professionally.

Ms Phiri asked the candidate as an advocate for transgender people, what the candidate would propose to incorporate transgender issues with stakeholders such as traditional leaders in rural areas that still regard the issue as taboo.

Ms Phiri asked the candidate if appointed, what her role would be in strengthening the monitoring of international treaties and ensure the implementation of those treaties.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate to indicate what sort of working relationship a CGE Commissioner should cultivate with senior managers of CGE. The purpose of the meeting was also to select Commissioners who can ensure that CGE would be functional both politically and operationally for the work it is mandated to do. He asked the candidate for observations of the environment between CGE Commissioners and its operational staff including the CGE CEO over the past few years. Bearing that in mind, how would the candidate interact with CGE senior management whilst being aware of those challenges.

Ms Hlongo noted in the candidate’s response that her organisation was currently working with CGE. She asked why the candidate wanted to be part of CGE.

Ms Sharif remarked that she had found an article which the candidate had done nine years ago in Feminist Wire in which the candidate had spoken about how she wished one day she could transition from male to female, get married, adopt a child and get a job maybe in Parliament. She found it remarkable – this prophecy.

Ms Sharif pointed out that in South Africa not only women were suffering from GBVF, members of the LGBTQI community suffered the utmost violence. Despite the country’s progressive legislation, the country was still at large a patriarchal society that determines gender norms and stereotypes. She asked the candidate what work she would focus in relation to the National Strategic Plan and the legislation in order to combat GBVF against both women and members of the LGBTQI community.

Ms Masondo stated that a key strategic outcomes of 2019-2024 state that CGE intends to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. Ms Masondo asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods the candidate would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to CGE.

Candidate 8: Ms Zoleka Susan Ponoane
The Chairperson informed the candidate to clarify the public comments the Committee received from Marion Stevens and OUTA. One issue was that the candidate had a court case in 2014 which later went to the High Court. The case number was 884/2014. The other allegation is that the candidate had two identification documents. She asked the candidate to clarify these issues.

Ms Sharif asked the candidate to elaborate on what the case was about and the outcome. According to Ms Sharif’s research on the candidate and having read the judgement from the Eastern Cape High Court: Mthatha, it was quite scathing and spoke about unprecedented misconduct.

Ms Hlongo asked the candidate to confirm what the error in the ID was, was it the name or was the ID number wrong. 

The Chairperson asked the candidate if she had informed Home Affairs of the ID error and if it was rectified. She emphasised the importance of rectifying such information at Home Affairs. She urged the candidate to do so as leaving the matter as it was would have severe consequences on the candidate’s future.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if the Department of Justice would hire her. To her knowledge, had the department mentioned anything about incompetence to her?

The Chairperson told the candidate to stay calm and understand if she felt interrogated. Committee Members were obliged to seek clarity about such information and keep candidates informed of that information. The Committee took what the candidate stated as the truth.

Mr Mphithi noted the candidate was from Sterkspruit, where he was from and that town would be proud of her representation at the CGE interviews. He asked her to identify the challenges of CGE over the past few years and to indicate her solutions or strategies to deal with those challenges if appointed as Commissioner.

Ms Masiko asked about advocacy and if CGE adequately reaches women in rural areas such as Sterkspruit so they know about information and awareness about CGE.

Ms Hlengwa asked if the candidate believed she had leadership skills and if so, provide an example of when she successfully used her leadership skills.

Ms Marekwa asked why the Constitution required all Chapter 9 institutions to be independent and impartial. She asked if the candidate regarded herself as an independent-minded and impartial person. If yes, she asked her to demonstrate why.

Ms Sharif said that GBVF continued to ravage South Africa and government had put in place the National Strategic Plan to tackle this. She asked the candidate, if appointed, how she would raise awareness of the National Strategic Plan and assist in combatting GBVF.

Ms Masiko said she was touched by what the candidate has raised about the boy child. She attended the reed dance in KZN this weekend and one of the outcries is that we are grooming young women to become flowers of the nation yet doing very little to raise the boy child to receive these flowers to nurture them correctly. What should CGE, in partnership with relevant stakeholders, do to ensure work is being done to raise boy children correctly to become responsible young men who will take care of these young women?

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate to give examples of her contributions to society so the interview panel could have an understanding of her social involvement and ground work if any. The candidate has litigation experience but what about her advocacy experience? She has had a law firm for 22 years so she should have good managerial experience. Could she give details of her management experience and specific management skills? What about her ability to communicate and what key attributes she believes she has? The candidate was also asked about her legislative and policy review experience.

Candidate 9: Ms Pontsho Pilane
The Chairperson noted the candidate had received 14 public comments. There was nothing in the comments that needed her to respond to except. They did include that she was a director in three companies. As long as those companies are not doing business with the state because one does not want a conflict of interest that will affect the work of the CGE as an institution. She asked the candidate to tell them about herself and why she applied for this position.

Ms Marekwa asked why the Constitution required all Chapter 9 institutions to be independent and impartial. She asked if the candidate regarded herself as an independent-minded and impartial person. If yes, she asked her to demonstrate why.

Ms Masiko asked why the candidate agreed with the complaint that there had not been enough time for public comment about the shortlisted CGE commissioner candidates, as the Committee had received hundreds of public comments.

The Chairperson said that she disagreed with the candidate that there was insufficient public awareness and participation by this Portfolio Committee. She asked the candidate if she had compared the level of public participation in this CGE process compared to other committees.

Ms Sharif said she appreciated the candidate's gutsiness. How would she speak to people and achieve meaningful public participation? In one's critique, one has to be aware of the limitation of participation and how many one can reach. How would she rectify the participation challenge she is pointing out if appointed?

The Chairperson noted that these public participation comments are not deciding who to recommend as a Commissioner but are to empower the interview panel to know the candidate better. The panel then asks the candidates to express themselves. The public comments raise issues about a candidate. Why do we want a public participatory democracy, openness and transparency? She spoke about the many people who are alerted about public participation and meetings but are not interested and do not want to attend or listen. Therefore, the Committee appreciates everyone who submitted public comments and assisted. They received so many and it helped them a lot

Ms Masiko referred to the mandate and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution to strengthen constitutional democracy. She asked about its mandate, powers and functions in terms of the Constitution. Also, what are the role and functions of the commissioners?

Mr Mphithi asked her for an analysis of the type of work done by CGE so far. He asked her to explain the challenges that exist within the CGE and how, if appointed, she would address these. Public participation remains exclusive and limited to people having access to established systems. It needs a complete overhaul, in his view. The candidate referred to plugging into established networks and conversations. He noted with the National Youth Plan, they extended the comment process as they believed young people had not been given enough time to comment. However, only a limited contribution came through with the extension. The fact that this comment process is limited shows that a more genuine and authentic way is needed and an overhaul. He would not comment on the extension of public comments for this CGE process. He asked her if appointed to CGE for ways to change this. What does plugging into established networks look like practically?

The Chairperson interjected that the CGE does not have problems with Commissioners leaving CGE. One of the challenges of Commissioners resigning before the end of their term is when a person gets employed somewhere else like the part-time commissioners resign if they get better opportunities. It is not an issue – mostly it is academics who resign because they get better opportunities.

The Chairperson asked if appointed, how the candidate is going to ensure commissioners stay even if they get better offers out there.

Ms Hlengwa remarked that as a young person, the candidate is outspoken; she is a researcher, an author, everything. However, does she believe she has leadership skills? If so, can she give an example of her leadership skills or style?

Ms Hlonyana said the candidate could really challenge the establishment without fear. She wished she could challenge white monopoly capital but she would not go into that. She asked the candidate to tell the panel about the non-government organisations she has worked for and the advocacy she has done. The candidate was then asked if she has legislative review, litigation and managerial experience.

Ms Hlonyana said she really had challenged the establishment. If tomorrow she is a Commissioner, how would she mobilise public participation?

Ms Phiri said that the candidate is a communications expert and she has done her research. If appointed, how would she prohibit the bad publicity about CGE? What skills can she bring to end that?

Ms Phiri said the candidate has sat on international commissions. Can she speak about the role of CGE in ensuring compliance with international treaties and name one of these?

Ms Masondo said the key strategic outcome of the 2019-2024 strategic plan is to promote gender equality. What innovative means would the candidate adopt to promote public awareness of the CGE?

Ms Masiko said that from the candidate's work in media, she would know that radio listenership figures show the potential reach for public participation through a radio station. With elections, there is preparation but people do not vote, there is voter apathy. With public comments, whether given two weeks or a month, the public does not come out in numbers to participate. As Commissioner, what contribution would she make to have a larger interaction between CGE and the greater public?

The Chairperson asked the candidate if she had questions for the Committee.

Candidate 10: Mr Itumeleng Mmusi
The Chairperson asked the candidate to tell them about himself, who he is and why he applied for this position. She noted that he had received one comment from OUTA, which was not bad but merely noted he is a director of four companies.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate if he had any advocacy experience. She also asked him if he had litigation, legislative review and managerial experience.

Ms Masiko referred to the mandate and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 to strengthen constitutional democracy. She asked him to speak about its mandate, powers and functions in terms of the Constitution. Also, what is the role and functions of the commissioners?

Ms Sharif said government had developed the National Strategic Plan against GBVF. In his role as Commissioner, how would he raise awareness, combat GBVF and give effect to the Plan?

Ms Hlengwa asked about leadership skills. Why does he think he is the most suitable candidate for the post? Does he believe he has leadership skills and if so, provide an example of when he successfully used his leadership skills.

Ms Masondo said the key outcome of the CGE 2019-2024 strategic plan is to promote gender equality. What innovative means would he adopt to promote public awareness and access to the CGE?

Ms Phiri asked her three questions in Tswana including one about international treaties on disability.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate if he could name one issue the CGE has driven about disability as it intersects with gender. If appointed, what type of interventions would he make on behalf of the disability community?

Ms Hlongo asked what the candidate understands about corporate governance in terms of CGE.

The Chairperson asked the candidate if he had questions for the Committee.

Meeting adjourned.

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