(Subcommittee) SABC Board: Interviews day 1

Meeting report

The Chairperson noted that the candidate recommendations had been referred to Parliament’s Legal Services to ensure this process was done within the ambit of the law. The Committee assured South Africans that the process was transparent, taken seriously and respectful of all the views made by stakeholders from different sectors.

The Chairperson outlined the interview process and time limits. Each member would be given a five-minute time limit to engage with a candidate. This includes the time for the candidate’s response. Conventionally, the Chairperson would not participate in asking questions. However, should there be areas he felt a candidate did not address adequately, the Chairperson would ask follow-up questions for clarity.

Once the candidate was admitted to the virtual platform, the Chairperson explained to each of them the constitutional mandate of the process, the political party proportional representation of this subcommittee and the purpose of the interview. He noted that Members regarded this process as more of an engagement with candidates to know more about candidates rather than a formal interview. The Chairperson gave each candidate five minutes to introduce themselves to indicate the skills and expertise they would bring to the SABC Board. The candidate should bear in mind that Committee Members have already reviewed their CV. There is a five-minute time cap for each Member to ask questions and for the candidate to respond. The Chairperson might ask clarifying questions but would not participate in asking questions.

At the conclusion of each interview, the candidate was invited to give three-minute final remarks. Lastly, the Chairperson outlined the procedural steps following the interview process.

Candidate 1: Ms Mamodupi Mohlala-Mulaudzi
Ms A Mthembu (ANC) was impressed with the candidate’s introductory remarks. She asked why the candidate wanted to be part of the SABC Board again since she had been the SABC Board Deputy Chairperson since 2019.

Ms D Kohler Barnard (DA) had heard mixed reviews about the candidate. She emphasised the importance of having a positive public perception and the public’s trust as a SABC Board member. She noted the candidate’s extensive experience in various fields and her suspension as the Property Practitioners Regulatory Authority CEO. She had read the forensic report which had a litany of damning accusations against the candidate. She thus wanted the candidate to clarify the matter.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked if the candidate supported the sacking of the SABC head of news who was then totally exonerated by the CCMA.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate to explain the allegation which implicated her during her time as an ICASA councillor. The allegation was the candidate moonlighted her legal practice by doing work for a telecommunications operator which would constitute a conflict of interest and be in contravention of an ICASA Act and councillor conduct of conduct.

Ms Barnard asked about the R1.2 million contested lease agreement which the candidate had entered into and then cancelled. She believed that amount would constitute fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the PFMA.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate to provide clarity on her Department of Communications director-general job where she was fired.

Mr L Molala (ANC) noted the candidate’s experience having served on the SABC Board. The SABC had suffered a R210 million loss under her watch. This meant that the candidate and her colleagues as a collective could not do a proper oversight job. He asked how she would ensure that the entity would not suffer such loss again.

Mr Molala asked the candidate in terms of the five pillars of the SABC turnaround strategy, what contribution she had made to turnaround the SABC in the last three years, what the challenges were, why she had not managed to turnaround the entity and what she would do differently this time if appointed again.

Mr Molala noted the debate on the SABC balancing its commercial broadcasting with its public broadcaster mandate. Currently, the commercial wing is separate and has nothing to do with the public broadcaster mandate. He wanted to know the candidate’s view on that debate.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked two follow up questions. Firstly, she wanted the candidate to give a yes or no answer to whether she agreed with the irregular sacking of SABC news head. Secondly, she wanted to know why the candidate was fired from the Department of Communications.

Ms Z Majozi (IFP) was unable to ask questions directly due to network challenges so she posted her questions in the chat box. She asked the candidate to tell the Committee what she had contributed to the current SABC Board. Secondly, the SABC has a salary bill that exceeds the National Treasury threshold. What had she done to ensure this is managed accordingly?

Ms Majozi noted the improvement in reducing SABC irregular expenditure but wanted to know what more the candidate would do if appointed to the board again.

Dr M Basopu (ANC) indicated that the State Capture report had highlighted a number of mismanagement of funds and corrupt practices at the SABC. He wanted to know what measures the candidate had put in place to recover the lost public funds.

The Chairperson noted the candidate’s indication of support for Broadcast Digital Migration (BDM) for the citizens of South Africa. He then assumed that the SABC would have previously made statements championing that cause. He thus asked her to elaborate on that.

The Chairperson noted the candidate’s emphasis in her proposed strategy to improve revenue streams by going outside the country and reaching out to the continent. As a current serving board member, he asked the candidate if she had raised such inputs to the SABC Board.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate if she was aware of the unsustainability of regional TV as it had been trialled and shut down everywhere.

Ms Majozi clarified her question was not about an individual's salary but of the global salary bill of SABC.

Ms Barnard indicated in the chat box that since the Committee had given this candidate a full hour for the interview, it should give the same latitude to those wanting equal time.

Candidate 2: Mr David Maimela
As the candidate did not clearly state his current position on his CV, Ms Kohler Barnard asked him to provide clarity as his position as Chief of Staff for the Health MEC had ended.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate about his experience in media, programming, news reporting, content, finances, etc. She did not see any of those skills on his CV which are highly important for a board member.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate for his opinion on the irregular sacking of the SABC news head and asked if he had been involved in the sacking as a current board member.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate if he would in any way interfere in broadcasting issues. Would his personal views and beliefs be a cause for interfering in programmes such as virginity testing, LGBTQ sector, abortion programme, etc. She found it dangerous that board members should allow their personal opinions to go out of control to affect the public broadcasting arena.

Ms Mthembu asked should the candidate be appointed again, what his turnaround strategy for the SABC would be in terms of its finance.

Dr Basopu asked why the candidate was interested in the SABC and why he was applying for the position again.

Dr Basopu noted that the State Capture report had highlighted a number of incidents of mismanagement of funds and corrupt practices at the SABC. He asked what measures the candidate would put in place to avoid a future recurrence and what measures he had put in place to recover the lost public funds in his capacity as board member.

Mr Molala noted the current SABC Board decision to retrench over 600 employees. The justification was it would assist it in retaining R400 million for the entity; however, it has suffered a R210 million net loss. During his three-year tenure as SABC Board member, what had he done to sustain the SABC?

Mr Molala asked for the candidate’s views on the draft SABC Bill.

On the SABC turnaround strategy, Mr Molala asked the candidate if he had achieved what he had promised to deliver.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate if he had played a role in the irregular sacking of the SABC news head – in any shape or form.

Based on his CV as an extraordinary academic, Ms Kohler Barnard asked for his view on the independence of news platforms. Should the state take a role in determining what news is seen or heard?

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate to comment on the SABC’s retrenchment of 600 employees while later advertising 400 vacant posts. Some perceived the decision as a loss of expertise that had a detrimental impact on SABC content. She pointed to the scrapping of the programme Special Assignment after 24 years without justification causing a huge public outcry. She noted that the retrenchment had been done in the form of forcible early retirement of some employees.

Mr V Pambo (EFF) asked the candidate to elaborate on the reasons for the SABC retrenchments.

Mr Molala asked the candidate to comment on the allegations he was implicated in a forensic report about PPE procurement in the Gauteng Department of Health.

Ms Majozi asked the candidate if, as a SABC Board member, he had taken responsibility for any of the irregular expenditure. If appointed again, what more would he bring to the SABC Board?

Candidate 3: Mr Jack Phalane
Ms Kohler Barnard appreciated the candidate’s profession as a lawyer and his contribution to the Board. She asked him to comment on his role in the grievances directed against the SABC Board chairperson concerning the CCMA findings.

Ms Kohler Barnard commented on the candidate’s view on board interference. Given that Ms Barnard herself had served on the SABC Board at various different time periods, she asked him to demonstrate his understanding on board interference in programming given that it is near election time.

Dr Basopu asked the candidate why he was interested in the SABC.

Dr Basopu noted that the State Capture report had highlighted a number of incidents of mismanagement of funds and corrupt practices at the SABC. He asked what measures the candidate would put in place to avoid a future recurrence and what measures he had put in place to recover the lost public funds in his capacity as board member.

Mr Molala noted the debate on SABC balancing its commercial broadcasting with its public broadcaster mandate. Currently, the commercial wing is separate and has nothing to do with the public broadcaster mandate. Many believe that the SABC commercial arm should be funding that mandate. He wanted to know the candidate’s understanding of that matter.

Mr Molala noted the SABC bailout conditions and asked for the candidate's assessment of how SABC is faring concerning the Auditor-General’s report so Members can get a sense of what changes he would bring to the board.

Ms Kohler Barnard remarked that the SABC is working in an increasingly competitive environment. Given his financial expertise having chaired its financial board committee, she wanted the candidate to give some solid inputs on how he intended to make SABC self-sufficient because the country can no longer afford to bail out the entity year after year.

The Chairperson asked the candidate to give an indication on whether the SABC had achieved what it had anticipated to achieve given that it had retrenched over 600 employees because of their bloated salary bills deterred the growth of the SABC revenue.

The Chairperson asked the candidate for an evaluation of the efficacy of the policies or legislation.

The meeting was adjourned due to the National Assembly plenary session and resumed at 6pm.

Evening session

The Chairperson informed Members that Ms Sandika Daya had indicated her wish to withdraw from the process. In her email response to the Committee, she explained that she currently worked at MultiChoice, a direct competitor of the SABC. After consultation with her manager, her participation in the interview would constitute a direct conflict of interest, so she decided to withdraw from the process.

Candidate 4: Dr Renee Horne
Ms Mthembu appreciated the candidate’s experience at the SABC and asked her to elaborate on her proposed financial turnaround strategy for the entity to sustain itself.

Having listened to the candidate's proposed innovations, Ms Kohler Barnard asked what her immediate priority would be should she be appointed to solve the challenges faced by the entity. She remarked that the candidate might face a brick wall in dealing with the SABC licensing being a levy.

Since the country is approaching its 2024 national election, she asked what the candidate would keep her eye out for.

Ms Kohler Barnard commented that the SABC is competing in an extremely difficulty environment against other competitors in the field. She thus asked for her take on the SABC sacking of 600 employees which subsequently resulted in loss of expertise as well as loss of content such as its 24-year programme Special Assignment.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate to identify which part of her innovative strategies would adequately deal with the corrupt practices at the SABC revealed by the Zondo Commission.

Ms Kohler Barnard found the SABC decision to sack 600 employees and later hire 400 new employees illogical as enormous skills and experience were lost in those 600 employees. She asked for the candidate’s view on that statement.

Dr Basopu noted the candidate’s career journey had started at the SABC as a young journalist but later, she resigned. He asked the reason for her resignation and why she is now interested in returning to the SABC as a board member.

Dr Basopu indicated that the State Capture report had highlighted a number of incidents of mismanagement of funds and corrupt practices at the SABC. Given the candidate’s proclamation in her response that she has zero tolerance for corruption, he asked her to elaborate on the practical measures she would put in place to avoid future recurrence and what measures she had put in place to recover the lost public funds in her capacity as a board member.

Mr Pambo asked a follow-up question on the candidate’s response. He was interested to hear the candidate’s explanation of why she had accepted the board membership, knowing that possessing international experience was a prerequisite for the position.

Mr Molala asked about the candidate’s understanding of the roles of the board, administration and the shareholder. Most particularly, he wanted to know the candidate’s understanding of the oversight role of the board. What is oversight that does not constitute undue interference?

Mr Molala asked the candidate to explain her understanding of the roles of the SABC commercial broadcasting and its public broadcaster mandate. He asked if the commercial wing should remain a separate entity or should it be funding the public broadcaster mandate.

The Chairperson repeated Mr Molala's question and highlighted the independence of those role players.

Candidate 5: Mr Dinkwanyane Mohuba
Ms Kohler Barnard noted the scandal surrounding the candidate’s doctoral degree which the University of Limpopo refused to award. The candidate was then suspended as executive director for marketing and communication at the university and de-registered as a student. She asked the candidate to explain this entirely unsavoury business.

Ms Mthembu asked the candidate to elaborate on what achievement he had made to a board that he had served and how he could add value to the financial expertise of the SABC Board since the board is struggling with the SABC's financial sustainability.

Mr Molala asked the candidate for his understanding of the roles of board, administration and shareholder. He asked the candidate to elaborate on the current relations between those elements at the SABC.

Mr Molala wanted the candidate to give his view on whether the SABC commercial arm should be assisting its public broadcaster mandate and why.

Mr Pambo asked the candidate how he would ensure everyone had equal access to information to fulfil the SABC public broadcaster mandate.

Mr Pambo asked the candidate how he would lead the SABC given that it competes in an extremely difficult environment against other online platforms that challenge traditional broadcasting.

Ms Kohler Barnard referred to the letter from the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Limpopo stating that having carefully considered the matter, the University decided to terminate the candidate’s employment contract in September 2019. She noted that the candidate was initially placed on special leave. Hence, she wanted clarity as the candidate had denied that he was suspended and fired.

The Chairperson asked the candidate to comment on the SABC bloated salary bill and its decision to retrench employees which seem not to have achieved its desired outcome.

Mr Pambo asked the candidate to comment on why the SABC had a huge R800 million designated for content creation which was not spent.

Candidate 6: Ms Nomvuyiso Batyi
Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate to clarify her personal relationships with the former and current Ministers of Communications, Ms Ndabeni-Abrahams and Ms Ntshavheni. She feared that it might be an issue for her.

Ms Kohler Barnard noted the candidate’s current position as the CEO of the Association of Comms and Technology NPC, where the aim is to look after the interest of Africa’s telecommunication operators. Her position would be directly in contravention of s17 of the Broadcasting Act. Ms Kohler Barnard was of the view that this conflict of interest would be an ongoing problem should the candidate be appointed to the SABC Board. For instance, whenever digital content is being discussed at SABC Board meetings, the candidate would then be required to disclose such conflict of interest and her participation would be subjected to other board members’ decisions. Hence, she wanted the candidate to comment on that.

Ms Mthembu noted the candidate’s extensive work experience and wanted the candidate to provide her turnaround strategies to contribute to the sustainable finance of the SABC.

Ms Majozi noted that the candidate had been an Acting Director-General in the Department of Communications. Should she be appointed to the board, what would she do differently that she had not done when she was the Acting DG to address the various challenges and the irregular expenditure at the SABC?

Mr Pambo asked the candidate to assess the credibility of the SABC and what needed to be done to ensure it would have the trust of the majority of the people in the country.

Mr Pambo asked the candidate what role the SABC could play in highlighting xenophobia, gender-based violence and general social ills.

Mr Pambo interjected the candidate’s response and asked his view on the allegations against Mr Moshoeshoe Monare, SABC head of news, in showing favour to certain political parties regarding the coverage of party elective conferences. The uneven coverage has no solid and consistent criteria for why certain political parties are getting more political coverage.

Candidate 7: Prof Sathasivan Cooper
Ms  Kohler Barnard asked the candidate for his view on ensuring the independence of news at the SABC. What measures would he put in place to ensure that the public broadcaster restores its credibility and is without political interference, especially as the country is approaching elections in 2024?

Dr Basopu indicated that the State Capture report highlighted mismanagement of funds and corrupt practices at the SABC. He asked what measures the candidate would put in place to avoid future recurrences and what measures he had put in place in his capacity as a board member to recover the lost public funds squandered.

Given the SABC’s turnaround strategy and Treasury’s bailout conditions, Ms Majozi asked what the candidate can do to ensure that the salary bill would not exceed the Treasury threshold and to sustain the SABC financially.

Ms Majozi wanted the candidate to demonstrate his conflict resolution skills. What expertise could he bring to the SABC Board in having leadership skills underpinned by persuading one another until agreement is reached rather than causing divisions and arguments amongst colleagues?

Mr Molala asked the candidate to reconcile the SABC’s high salary bill which Treasury had flagged in its bailout conditions, the retrenchment of 600 employees and re-employment of new staff. He did not believe that the bailout had achieved its intended purpose.

Mr Molala asked the candidate for his understanding of the interface of the board, administration, the shareholder and this Portfolio Committee.

Mr Pambo asked the candidate to assess whether the retrenchment of the 600 employees had helped to turn around the SABC and if the decision was worth it considering that those who had been sacked are unemployed now.

Candidate 8: Ms Cynthia Stimpel
Ms Kohler Barnard noted the absence of relevant experience in telecommunications, media and sales in the candidate’s CV. She thus asked what the candidate would bring to the SABC Board.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate for her opinion about the SABC sacking of 600 employees which subsequently resulted in loss of expertise as well as loss of content.

Since the country is approaching its 2024 national election, Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate what changes she would make.

Ms Kohler Barnard asked the candidate what measures she would implement in light of the corrupt practices revealed by the Zondo Commission.

Ms Mthembu noted the candidate’s experience and knowledge in the financial field and asked her how she could apply her knowledge to the SABC to restore its financial sustainability.

Since the candidate had indicated that she had studied some SABC documents, Mr Molala asked for her comment that there are a lot of would-be whistleblowers at the SABC who were not disclosing problematic issues because of fear and lack of protection.

Ms Majozi asked the candidate what expertise she could bring to the board that would be beneficial. She especially wanted to know if the candidate had the skill to respect opinions and views and disagree whilst uniting the entity.

Mr Molala asked the candidate to indicate how she planned to use the SABC as a platform in the nation-building process.

With the day's interviews ended, the Chairperson adjourned the meeting.