Presidential Task Team on Military Veterans Update; Update on amendments to Military Veterans Act and Military Veterans Benefit Regulations; with Deputy Minister

Meeting report

Opening remarks by the Deputy Minister
The Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, Thabang Makwetla, requested that the briefing by the DMV audit committee and internal audit on challenges and related matters be extended. He explained that it was last established that the audit committee was not at full strength and nothing has changed since. Advertisements of posts for members of the Audit Committee were sent out in May. It is hoped that the Audit Committee will be established and up and running in the next few weeks or two months. The Ministry felt that this briefing should not be on the agenda because it will not be presented by professionals. In terms of the internal audit, while preparing for the meeting, it was established that there were no functionaries available to present to the Committee. The Head of Internal Audit was acting as CFO and other competent people were not available or on sick leave.

Ms T Legwase (ANC) granted the extension. She said that next time a letter be written to the Chairperson of the Committee asking for an extension. The request must be in writing.

Mr T Mmutle (ANC) agreed with Ms Legwase and asked when DMV will be able to report back.

The Chairperson said that there must be proper notice in writing and there should be a clear timeline on when the matter will be on the agenda.

Progress Report: Presidential Task Team on the Advancement of Military Veterans’Affairs
The Deputy Minister said that the Presidential Task Team is working hard to visit all nine provinces. It has established a weakening of work streams which is primarily due to the poor participation of provinces in the work streams. There has been a discussion around pensions and the administration and legal preparations are being made. The Presidential Task Team is doing what it is supposed to be doing. The DMV has achieved many of the things it could not achieve before. The budget of the DMV has never allowed us to implement some of these benefits.

Ms Irene Mpolweni, DirectorGeneral, DMV, said they will work hard to appoint members for the Audit Committee. The database and verification workstream has made progress. The DMV faces capacity challenges in terms of disbursing section 11 benefits of the Military Veterans Act. The DMV appears to have deviated from its legislative mandate which requires the organisation to coordinate and set policy standards regarding the advancement of military veterans’ affairs. The DMV positioned itself as an implementing agency. However, this problem is being addressed through the organisational redesign work-stream. This workstream deals with the structure of the DMV. It has been having some challenges because of the Bill and so forth. An organisational design company must be appointed to assist the DMV. The work streams are an invaluable source of capacity and innovation to the DMV given their respective purposes, objectives, and planned milestones. A disciplinary process will soon be embarked upon to address non-delivery by the identified DMV officials who were instructed to coordinate the activities of the socio-economic support work stream. The socio-economic workstream deals with the issue of pensions. Internal administrative matters are being done. The Department was still waiting on the threshold of the benefits being paid to military veterans. A letter has been written to the Minister of Finance for socio-economic support deals with education and housing. Bursaries are being made available. There will be an increase in the threshold of the bursary.

The heritage workstream ensures that all the falling heroes outside the country be brought back to the country.

Four employees were suspended in 2021. There was one female and three males. All four were investigated and officially charged by the DMV.

In improving service delivery, the DMV in its 2020/21 financial year, planned to create an automated database of military veterans and implement a benefit management system to streamline its delivery of benefits and improve credibility, integrity and security of the register of military veterans. The DMV entered into an agreement with SITA for the development of the Integrated Database Management System (IDMS) through a signed proposal.

In 2022/23, the DMV planned to train 10 000 military veterans and their dependents in ICT skills from February 2022 to 31 March 2024.

A number of 2 131 military veterans have been provided with houses during the period 2016/17 to 2021/22. The Gauteng province accounts for most of the houses and KwaZulu-Natal is the worst performing province in total housing provision.

(See slides for more details.)

Progress Report: Amendments to the Military Veterans Act and Military Veterans Benefits Regulations
The Deputy Minister said a letter was sent to the Department of Justice requesting legal assistance. Two people were assigned to assist DMV and have been released to begin their duties.

A letter was submitted to the Ministry requesting that the Military Veterans Act be registered for amendment on the cabinet register.

The DMV is waiting on a schedule to table amendments.

Ms Mpolweni said they are ensuring people are up to date on what process is happening with these amendments.

(see slides for more details)

The Chairperson said that there should be a discussion rather than a question-and-answer session. This will allow the Deputy Minister to listen to the concerns and address them in his concluding remarks.

Discussion
Mr M Shelembe (DA) asked for clarity on the issue of databases. Has it only been finalised and completed in Limpopo or other provinces, too? Are the funds available for the socio-economic support work stream? The funds in the 2022/23 financial year do not mention any funds for pension. If the pension programme kickstarts, will there be funds? He asked what the involvement of associations are, such as the South African Military Veterans Association, when it comes to the issue of databases. Do they play any role? The relationship between DMV and associations should be an integrated system where all stakeholders have the opportunity to participate in the use of the databases.

He asked for clarity on housing. Why is there a slow pace of housing in KwaZulu-Natal? What is the problem? Is there a solution to ensure that the issue of housing in KwaZuluNatal is attended to as a matter of urgency? He asked if more information on the amendments to the Military Veterans Act and Military Veterans Benefit Regulations can be provided.

Mr S Marais (DA) said that the ministerial task team has created an enormous expectation. There have been many inquiries from military veterans asking when the pension money can be received. The expectation was created that the roll-out of the pension would be immediate. Where is this money going to come from? How many military veterans will apply for the pension? What is the pension structure? Is everyone getting a flat rate of pension per month? How much will this be? What is the calculation in terms of the total amount for pension? Will this amount be added to the current budget? What are the criteria for pension? Should the military veterans just be registered on the database and then apply or are there some other criteria?

Everybody is expecting that every military veteran that is identified in the Act will qualify. Has the DMV interacted with National Treasury and will the amount be added to the current medium term budget process?

There have been many inquiries about medical benefits and these benefits can be accessed. Can it only be accessed from military hospitals or from any provincial or national health facility? From what budget will the medical cost be appropriated or paid? Are there so-called medical funds or a pool of money identified and earmarked for medical benefits? To what extent will this link to other people who have retired and have medical benefits? Will these funds come from the same pool of money?

Responses
Ms Mpolweni said the database verification is in progress.

The current activities are now being dealt with in Limpopo. There are a few applicants who applied to be verified in terms of the database process. The total amount is 3 743 applications throughout the country. These activities are just currently in Limpopo and the applications are being considered.

There is a process to interview each and every person and then provide feedback. This process is linked with the database unit of the DMV. After the process has been finalised, the members will be included in the database. This is the database method that has always been appalled by military veterans. This matter is being addressed through the work streams despite all the challenges progress has been made. The DMV is trying to assist and ensure that there is a budget for this work stream. The issue with the database is still ongoing since the process is still running.

The South African Military Veterans Association is, in fact, a very important stakeholder of the DMV. There will be conferences, and the DMV will assist and support. These activities have also been budgeted for. The issue of fair housing is something that needs a lot of attention, especially in the area of quick identification of land. This is an area that needs attention. The people that are going to be provided with houses must be on the database and must be eligible military veterans that have not received support in the past. Most military veterans are destitute and should be given priority. The Department of Human Settlements is the custodian of the building of the houses. The DMV does a top-up. If no houses are built, the top-up will not be utilised.

The DMV understands the outcry for housing. A short, medium, and long term solution will be looked into. Some military veterans are now more destitute due to the floods in KZN. In England and the United States of America, dilapidated schools and universities have been converted to apartments. First world countries have utilised their rationalized buildings to ensure accommodation for their own people. This is one solution that can help. There will be a conversation with the Department of Education to see if there are any of these institutions that can be converted into flats or apartments. Money has been directed to the socio-ec area.

The Chairperson asked the Chief Director of the DMV for some clarity. He asked if the amount of R4 962 per month (proposed amount) will be a top-up to those who are currently receiving a special pension. How many military veterans will be able to receive a pension?

Mr Sandisa Siyengo, Chief Director: Research and Policy Development, DMV, said it will be a top-up and every year the money will be adjusted if adjustments do occur. A number of 1 500 military veterans will be receiving pension for this current financial year.

Mr Shelembe asked for clarity about the money for pension.

The Chairperson clarified that the money is already in the budget. The adjustments referred to is when there is inflation. The adjustments will be done annually.

Mr Shelembe asked for clarity on the amount of money that will be made available for the pensions.

The Chairperson said that it is the 1 500 military veterans multiplied by the amount of R4 962 multiplied by the number of months that person has been on the system within that financial year.

Mr Shelembe raised concerns on the issue of housing. How will military veterans receive houses when there is no housing project currently with the Department of Human Settlement? Is the DMV trying to build relationships with local municipalities? There are a number of municipalities in the country. What is the DMV going to do to ensure that all municipalities are aware of this housing? Will the DMV just choose any municipality? A discussion on the way forward must be prioritised. How can houses be received if the Department of Human Settlements does not have any projects?

Ms Mpolweni said that there is still a gap within the areas of housing. The Deputy Minister has been helping in those areas and having meetings with embassies. The issue of unblocking lands and identifying them with the Department of Human Settlements is an issue that is being addressed.

The Chairperson said that in the area of KZN, houses are being built in the traditional areas. For instance, someone would say that their family support is in that area and that they need a house but they do not want to go to town. The person then asks if a house can be built there and if the Chief is prepared to put aside an area, a house will be built there. This should not be ruled out.

Ms Mpolweni said sometimes when the land has been allocated, it is far from the supported community. The Deputy Minister is trying to help to see how policies can be able to be adjusted to talk to situations like this. The Deputy Minister has not yet reached all provinces. There may have been many hiccups due to the instability of the internal DMV legal unit about the amendments to the act. The work streams are, however, still available and assist in ensuring that the issue of the act is tabled in different platforms where the military veterans are able to access the act and provide their inputs.

One of the gaps in the Act is the health benefits that only supporting and accommodating the main member and not their beneficiaries. In the event of an emergency, only the main member is treated. The member’s family is usually not attended to but not in a careless manner. There are other areas that have emerged during the review of the act. This includes the area of identification of who is a military veteran. The internal members of the DMV have been looking into the gaps in the old Act, in the area of pensions and the issue of housing.

Mr Marais asked for clarity on how the 1 500 military veterans will be chosen. Is there a certain criterion? Is it on a first come first serve basis? Is it specific allocations to specific provinces in terms of population of where the veterans are residing? He said he understood that the process of housing is a national department which is delegated to different provinces, whereas the list for beneficiaries is taking place at the local government level. He asked if housing will be a statutory obligation of provinces and local governments to provide a number of houses for military veterans. Or will it be at the mercy of provincial and local government? Otherwise, there will be an expectation of houses. This is a big concern. He was worried that military veterans will not be able to receive their portion.

Ms Mpolweni said there are two departments indeed. It will be the DMV and the Department of Human Settlements. However, there will also be a provincial government and municipalities.

The Chairperson said he thought that the two departments are involved but that DMV remains the coordinated point to identify whether the military veteran is on the database and whether the budget should be topped-up.

Ms Mpolweni said the list of military veterans must be verified by the asset department to ensure that this is an eligible person to receive the house. The DMV oversees the top up and tendering process, and all other things relating to the building of the house happen at the Department of Human Settlements. She said there will be applications also submitted by the beneficiaries.

The Chairperson said that people apply, get processed and when 1 500 has been reached the others are considered the following year.

Mr Shelembe asked how long the process is going to take in Limpopo, since there are nine provinces. He asked for timeframes. He asked if the database registration will be done within this. He asked for clarity whether the Department of Human Settlements builds the house and the DMV comes and does the top-up.

Ms Legwase said she was worried about the military veterans that passed on before registering on the database. How will the beneficiaries know where to go or who to reach out to?

Ms Mpolweni said that the Department of Human Settlements sends an invoice that the houses have been built, and then the DMV does the top-up. After this, the Department of Human Settlements releases the houses to the military veterans. She said that in terms of when the military veteran has passed on before registering on the database, this will need to be investigated before answering.

The Chairperson said that there is just a concern around the sake of the children of they stood to benefit from the DMV.

Mr Marais said that there is a lot of uncertainty, but the Committee just has to see how the process will unfold. The expectations of the military veterans are enormous and probably more than what is currently provided for in the budget. All military veterans’ issues should be handled with care and empathy. They must be treated with dignity because most of them are suffering in all spheres of life. A number of only 1 500 military veterans is not enough. A meeting should be held with the National Treasury to secure more funds so that military veterans can get what they deserve.

Mr Shelembe said he is 100 percent happy until military veterans get what they deserve.

Closing remarks by the Deputy Minister
The DMV delivers houses to military veterans through the Department of Human Settlements, specifically through its provincial departments. The delivery of housing has the challenges of coordination between the DMV and the provincial housing departments. There has been a challenge where it was alleged that the DMV did not provide a name list of the beneficiaries on time. As a result, units were completed but lacked information on who the recipients of those units were. The DMV does not have the capacity to take responsibility itself for the projects and does not intend to take up that capacity. Housing is provided where there are housing projects in their provinces. Sometimes houses are completed even before DMV forwards the top-up. There has to be a way that the top-up money goes straight to the Department of Human Settlements and not to the budget of the DMV because it creates unnecessary administrative work.

The military pension will only be provided to military veterans who were members of the liberation army. Military veterans as part of their employment conditions already have a pension; they cannot be double-dipping. This pension is for the military veterans from the non-statutory forces because they were not gainfully employed and did not build pensions for themselves when they were in service. They cannot be benefiting twice and for this reason, the policy of the pension says that if a military veteran from the non-statutory forces receives a special pension he/she would only be entitled to get this military pension where there is a gap between the amount of the special pension that they are getting and what the military pension provides. The military veteran will be able to get the difference if what he is receiving from his special pension is below what the military pension offers. Every legislation, as a matter of convention, that is brought into force is never done retrospectively. If this military pension was to be implemented retrospectively then the number of beneficiaries would not be the 1 500. The number would be huge. The DMV must ensure that they finalise the verification of military veterans so that those who qualify for these benefits are loaded, but also that this pension must be paid out as soon as possible.

The pension benefit should be paid out as soon as possible to not deprive his dependents of the opportunity to receive this pension. He suggested that after the DMV visited KZN, they should come back to the Committee and report on this. He appealed that the Committee gives them some time. There are a lot of houses that are also not on the database because the verification has not been provided. This has an impact on military veterans receiving their houses.

Report of the Oversight visit of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans to Selected Armscor Facilities, Denel’s Lyttelton Campus, Special Forces School and the Department of Military Veterans’ Headquarters, 21 and 22 April 2022 Mr Peter Daniels, Content Advisor, presented to the Committee the report on the oversight visit to selected ARMSCOR facilities, Denel’s Lyttelton campus, special forces school, and the DMV headquarters on 21 and 22 April 2022.

The report consisted of the observations of the Committee.

Mr Marais suggested that there be a request for the special forces school. The DMV must submit a report on how the unavailability of electricity has an impact on the storage of vehicles and equipment. Vehicles have to be stored under certain conditions. Does this then not impact the readiness of the DMV? He said the report does not directly reflect that Denel come back to the Department of Defence and that this should be noted.

The Chairperson said that the Denel issue interferes with executive authority.

Mr Mmutle said that the Committee does not want Denel to liquidate. The issue should not be included in this report and will be discussed later on.

Mr Marais agreed and said we cannot lose the capabilities of Denel. The issue of Denel will be discussed at a later stage.

The report was adopted.

Committee minutes
Mr Daniels took the Committee through the minutes of 25 May 2022.

The minutes were adopted with no amendments.

The meeting was adjourned.