Progress of Presidential Task Team on Military Veterans; DMV response to matters raised in AGSA Report on status of records review; with Deputy Minister

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed everyone to the virtual meeting, and briefly touched on the matters that were to be covered by the Committee. The issue of irregular expenditure was a major concern, and measures needed to be taken because there had been very little consequence management in the Department. The Department should work on their organisational structure for effectiveness and also improve their turnaround time when they responded to the Committee, because they had been taking long. This was frustrating to the Committee, since it delayed their oversight role.

 

The Chairperson asked the Department to make sure that the accounting officers had enough resources and that they attend meetings so that there were better engagements with the Committee. He asked the Deputy Minister to give his opening remarks.

 

Deputy Minister's opening remarks

 

Mr Thabang Makwetla, Deputy Minister of Defence, said the report that was going to be presented on the findings of the Presidential Task Team (PTT) on military veterans was the first one, because the interventions were being reported to the Deputy President. He had not yet had an opportunity to brief Parliament on the issues that were being dealt with by the PTT. He was aware that the Committee had been demanding feedback on the PTT report, and the Department of Military Veterans (DMV) had been working hard on the matter.

 

The President had assigned the Deputy President to chair the PTT after numerous complaints were raised by the military veterans, and there had been different sessions with other ministers from other Departments on how they could move forward on the matters raised and were being dealt with by the PTT. The PTT had also established the work streams that were to deal with the grievances that had been raised by the military veterans, and there had been progress in the handling of these matters.

 

One of the difficult matters that the PTT had encountered was that of a once-off payment of R4 million to each member of the military veterans, and this was not possible because the Department did not have such funding. The Department and the PTT were well aware of how much assistance the military veterans required, but the amount demanded was too high. The work of the PTT was still ongoing, and it had taken the work to the provinces so that they could have more engagements with the veterans.

 

The Deputy Minister introduced the new Director-General to make the presentation to the Committee.

 

 PTT on military veterans: Progress report

Ms Irene Mpolweni, Director-General, DMV, said the PTT had committed to continuous engagements with military veterans in a bid to resolve issues raised during various interactions with them since November 2020. It had committed to work with all spheres of government in accelerating the much needed service delivery to the veterans. Subsequently, the PTT had started provincial visits to fulfill the commitments. Since the start of the engagements with different Military Veterans Associations, the PTT had employed a technical task team to establish work streams for the implementation of the issues contained in the consensus document. A lot of work had been done, and this report describes the progress made.

The efforts of institutionalising the relationship between the DMV and the three spheres of government, including state-owned entities (SOEs), was on-going and was led at the work stream and sub-work stream level. To date, memorandums of understanding (MoUs) had been concluded with the provincial governments of Gauteng, the Eastern Cape and a number of SOEs. Discussions were under way with the provincial governments of Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal (KZN), to conclude the MoUs. Provinces such as Gauteng and the Eastern Cape had already established military veterans' help desks, and had adopted programmes of action and policies that seek to prioritise service provisioning for the veterans.

In the field of education support, a decision had been taken to suspend the moratorium on new applications for support. Letters of commitments had been issued to approved applicants. Payments of new 2021applications and continuing beneficiaries of education support were ongoing as the DMV received invoices from the institutions. The involvement and support of the provincial governments had been identified as a critical success factor. Some provincial departments had already started to assist with bulk collection of invoices for learners supported by DMV. Gauteng Province (GP) had led the way, as DMV supported more learners from this province.

The Committee heard that on the matter of employment opportunities, military veterans had been employed to assist on Covid-19 pandemic interventions at schools in GP. The model was being proposed for implementation across all provinces for the veterans.

Verification of 5 419 Non-statutory Force (NSF) members had started on 6 May 2021, and 385 were found to be deceased. The process had started with 1 980 cases in Gauteng, of whom 377 were not traceable. Of the 411 invited, 182 did not attend. There had been 36 successful applicants. Proceeding to other provinces, additional intelligent sound and video recording systems were required to enable virtual interviews.  The cost plan scenarios, starting with Aloe Ridge in KZN, had been finalised. All provinces would get the opportunity to be verified.

The abolition of the means test and disbursement of the benefits was linked to the process of amending the Military Veterans Act (Act no. 18 of 2011), as well as its regulations. An advisory note from Legal Services indicated that the means test could not be abolished, as this would result in benefits being dispensed to every military veteran. Funds allocated for improving the lives of the vulnerable and indigent military veterans would be utilized to sustain those who could maintain themselves, should the means test be abolished. All government departments which dispense benefits use a means to test to qualify and disqualify persons.

The service delivery model had been refined and presented to the DPSA, together with a proposed functional structure that had already been done for technical analysis. The DPSA had sent back the analysis to the DMV to re-work the proposed functional structure within the funded posts. The finalisation of the structure was dependent on the finalisation of the amendment of the Act in order to ensure that the DMV organisational structure was aligned to the mandate of the amended Act. The Department was seeking technical assistance from the Government Technical Advisory Centre (GTAC) to cost the implementation of the proposed structure that would be aligned to the amended Act.

The provision of healthcare to dependents was awaiting the review of the legislation and the related funding. This implementation was linked to the amendment of the Act and regulations. A comparative study would be done with the Department of Defence (DOD) for the provision of similar benefits in the Defence Force to ensure that provision of healthcare was aligned to what the DOD offers to its members.

One of the military veterans' demands in the consensus document was a consideration for Presidential pardons and expungement of criminal records of Liberation Struggle War Veterans (LSWVs). The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development had furnished the Office of the President with files of military veterans who had applied for Presidential pardons, dating back to the era of the second President of the Republic. The LSWV have been asked to provide their list of individuals who were eligible for a Presidential pardon and reasons why, as well as to provide a list of individuals who should not be considered for Presidential pardon, and why.

Delivery of military veterans' housing and the rescue of distressed mortgages were on-going under the current legislative and regulatory provisions. To date, the Department, working with stakeholders, had delivered in excess of 1 700 houses nationally and settled more than 200 distressed mortgage bonds. The modalities of the 80m² houses were a proposal that would form part of the gazetting, although a risk had been highlighted that the houses of military veterans should not be different from the houses being offered to ordinary citizens, as evidence showed that this was one of the sources of conflict in the communities. The government was assessing the inventory and status of the houses to confirm which houses might be available, and their condition.

The content of the pension policy had been finalised by the work stream. The policy had also been consulted with the Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans in July.  Some issues were being referred to Legal Services and the legislative review work stream for concurrence and clarification on some of the definitions. The DMV database section had since provided the data file of the Military Veterans to the Government Pensions Administration Agency (GPAA) to enable the determination of the number of possible military veterans that would benefit. High level budget implications had been considered based on the information received from the GPAA. The work stream was currently working on the finer details of the financial modelling, and the budget implications of the benefit. Preliminary work would be completed in August to allow for further engagement by the principals -- the PTT, the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, and the Minister of Finance.

A decision had been taken by the Council on Defence to augment the unemployment grant of R350 given to citizens, to R1 200 for military veterans. A total number of 982 MVs were receiving payment, of whom 527 (54%) were from non-statutory forces, while 455 (46%) were statutory members. To date, about R5.6 million had been spent on the top-up. The PTT had directed that these MVs must be considered for an amount of R1 200 by the DMV within budget. Subsequently, the DMV had received 1 200 applications, 614 of which had been verified by the Unemployment Insurance Fund (UIF), the GPAA and the South African Social Security Agency (SASSA). The South African Revenue Service (SARS) had been engaged to do the final confirmations before the payment could be made. There were 221 potential beneficiaries still waiting for SARS verification.

On-going engagements were being held with the Department of Sport, Arts and Culture (DSAC) and its agencies, such as the South African Heritage Resources Agency (SAHRA), the National Heritage Council (NHC) and Freedom Park. A draft memorandum of understanding (MOU) was in place, and was expected to be signed off by the respective Accounting Officers, as well as the attendant implementation agreements with the DSAC agencies.

The Director-General vacancy had been filled. All vacant posts would be filled by the end of November 2021.

The model of empowerment and skilling of MVs was linked to the government programme of action, which involved infrastructure, agriculture, safety and security, poverty alleviation, business entrepreneurship and cooperatives. Government departments and provinces were beginning to report on interventions for MVs. Provinces were continuously committing interventions set aside for MVs and their dependents on training for sewing, security and protection services, fashion design, artisan programmes (mechanical, electrical etc.), plumbing, welding and solar installations. The DMV's provincial offices were continuously advising veterans on programmes that had exit strategies. The provincial offices were being strengthened, and eight administrators had been appointed to the various offices in August, as it was envisaged that some of the benefits such as health, housing and empowerment would be decentralised.

Discussion

The Chairperson thanked the Director General for her presentation, and asked Members to engage with the presentation. He said that the presentation reflected what the Committee had been asking for in the previous meetings.

Mr M Shelembe (DA) welcomed the fact that there was a Director-General in the Department, since the position had been vacant for some time. He asked whether the R4 million payout was meant for individual payouts, or if it was a budget. He was also concerned about the housing of MVs, and asked for more information on the houses in KZN and how the allocation of houses was being done. He asked for a comment from the Director- General on the amendment of the Act, so they could attend to matters that would be raised by MVs as a matter of urgency in the future.

Mr W Mafanya (EFF) said the presentation was similar to those made in 2016, although there were a few changes here and there. He commented that some of the matters had been duplicated and that there were no timelines on how soon the matters should be resolved, which had resulted in them dragging on. He touched on the issue of the MoU between the DMV and the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure (DPWI). He also asked about a project that was supposed to support military veterans, but the reality on the ground was that nothing was materialising. He expressed concern about the political prisoners who had not been pardoned or still had criminal records, which meant that they could not get employed, and asked if there ways to expedite the process of expunging criminal records.

Ms T Legwase (ANC) started by congratulating the DMV for filling the vacant posts. She called for a detailed report that would show how many MVs had been supported through the housing and education system, rather than overall numbers, because it would make more sense to have a breakdown for each province.

The Chairperson said that where it was possible to attach timelines, the Department should do so because this helped the Committee and reduced the workload and the discussions. He also supported the point raised by Mr Shelembe about the fact that there were no details of who was being supported in the provinces, because the names were not available for the Committee to verify, and it would be helpful if there was a database that reflected all the information. The Department should brief the Committee on how they planned to spend their next budget, because it would assist the Committee to play its oversight role.

He invited the Deputy Minister to comment on the questions that had been raised by Members.

DMV's response

Deputy Minister Makwetla said that there were policy implications for the work streams that would be guided by Parliament. The cleaning and consolidating of the MV database had been an ongoing process and had to be concluded, but at the same time it must be certified that those who were going to benefit were the proper beneficiaries. There would be an increased working capacity, budget and equipment allocated to the project of verification so that the process could be sped up.

He said that a number of people who had appeared before the Committee had mentioned that they were not military veterans, but would like to be included in the database of the Department. The matter of the database had to be addressed because of the issue of the members of the Defence Force. He was of the view that they deserved some support from government, but they were not military veterans and the Department should not take on the responsibility of supporting them at the expense of taxpayers' money. It was a policy matter that must be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

On the matter of the MoU, the Deputy Minister said that it was a generic MoU -- not one specifically to deal with the PTT. It was realised that more opportunities should be unlocked for the betterment of military veterans. Provinces must also be involved in these matters so that everything could be formalised and the rules could be applied in a uniform way. The PTT was clear that some money must be spent o MV issues to release some of the pressure. The budget of the Department was the responsibility of the Committee.

The Committee heard that there was a need for the work streams to be aligned with the mainstream social policies. The Department was providing houses which were better than the RDP structures, but more could be done. The same applied to the educational bursaries that were being provided by the Department, which were totally different to those being offered by the provinces.

Deputy Minister Makwetla said that the Portfolio Committee should conduct oversight on some of the projects so that they could be abreast of what was taking place. He said the Department would schedule another meeting with the Committee and make a presentation on the expunging of criminal records -- the process and what was being considered. The PTT work streams were never intended as part of the delivery machinery, but were meant to find quick solutions to the grievances that had been raised. The PTT had directed that each of the work streams must have milestones which could be checked to determine if they were on the right track, and the Department had been of the view that this could be achieved in six months, but unfortunately this had not been the case.

The Chairperson asked him to comment on the R 4 million grant.

Deputy Minister Makwetla clarified that the R4 million was not the budget, but was the money that military veterans wanted per member, and the Department was not in a position to pay such amounts.

The Chairperson asked the Director- General if she would like to add to what the Deputy Minister had said

Ms Mpolweni said that it was indeed a good idea that the Department should provide more feedback when it came to issues involving the provinces, and they would make a presentation to the Committee. On the issues of the PTT, the DMV would cover the milestones in their next presentation. The Committee also heard that DMV would provide more details of military veterans who had benefited from the housing programme.

DMV response to AGSA report on status of records review

Ms Zintle Gcasambe, Acting Chief Financial Officer (CFO), DMV, said the purpose of the presentation was to apprise the Committee on the high level results regarding matters raised in the AGSA report on the status of records review.

The Department was the defendant in contract cancellation lawsuits amounting to R189 159 000. The ultimate outcome of these matters could not presently be determined, and no provision for any liability that may result had been made in the financial statements.

There had been enforcement of consequence management on all identified cases of irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure incurred, as well as identified cases of fraud. Following a report issued by the Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME) and National Treasury (NT), further investigations by the labour relations office (LRO) and the former Acting Director-General (ADG) had begun internally in April.

16 audit letters had since been drafted, with some issued to the officials during April before the investigation team was appointed by the former ADG. Of the 16, four officials were not served with the letters due to their unavailability. After the investigating team was appointed, it was then left to them to proceed with the process.

The investigating team took the approach of dealing with each financial year, starting from 2013/14. The process was adjourned, however, to allow for intervention by the new Director-General to ensure that a comprehensive investigation was performed and finalised by 31 March 2022.

The Department undertook an assets verification exercise through the use of an external service provider. Once the exercise was concluded, the cleansed assets register would be loaded on to the Logical Information System (LOGIS) to eliminate the manual system presently being used. This would assist the Department to ensure automation and improvement in controls related to asset management. The physical security of assets was being managed through the DMV's physical security services.

The Department was in the process of upgrading its information communication technology (ICT) environment, with the development of a secure military veterans database through the State Information Technology Agency (SITA). Procurement of both the firewall and antivirus were also under way, and requests for SITA to facilitate procurement on behalf of the DMV had been finalised. Military veterans' database backups were performed daily. The integrated database management system (IDMS) was going live for registration of military veterans on the database by 1 October.

Ms Gcasambe said that the heritage, memorialisation and honour policy had been approved in February, and the burial policy in August. The skills development policy had been submitted to the Accounting Officer for approval. The Accounting Officer had not yet signed off on the policy.

The updated housing, pension and education support was still being discussed, based on the latest developments in the PTT. A commitment had been made for these policies to be approved after the Act had been amended.

The DMV had a compliance management unit whose role included developing a compliance universe for the Department. It did not have a compliance management system, but depended on manual documentation. A letter requesting assistance on the compliance system had been sent to SITA in 2016. SITA had said they were currently working on the request and would present the findings to all the interested parties in due course. The compliance policy had been approved in November 2020. The compliance register was developed and presented to the management committee (MANCO) in November 2020. There would be a challenge in monitoring in this area, as the compliance officer had retired at the end of March, but the position had been advertised in April.

The Committee heard that the Department would ensure that the portfolio of evidence (PoE) was validated prior to submission to internal audit and the Auditor General. Alignment of the submitted PoE with the evidence required as per the technical indicator description (TID) would be monitored.

Departmental reporting guidelines had been developed which highlight the process that needs to be taken for the submission and quality assurance of the submitted PoE. The planning unit provides quality assurance for the reports submitted to the planning unit, and provides feedback to the branches for rectification before internal audit provides the overall quality assurance.

Branches had been directed to update the audit action plans in response to the audit outcomes. The Director-General had issued letters to the branch/unit heads to ensure that officials responsible for AGSA findings were held accountable, and branches/units had to ensure that all findings were addressed by 31 December 2021.

Discussion

The Chairperson said the presentation had followed the steps the DMV had been taking, and was therefore more engaging compared to previous presentations.

Mr Shelembe said he shared the same sentiments as the Chairperson, because the presentation showed action was being taken by the Department, and the Committee would be in a position to do follow-ups since they had information that was accurate. He said the programme with SITA should be implemented soon, as he was worried about the non-compliance of the Department.

Ms A Beukes (ANC) wanted more details on the management responses that had been included in the presentation. She asked why the DMV used an external service provider for asset management while there were people employed to do this within the Department. She also wanted to know about the work that had already been done by the investigating team before the DG had been appointed recently.

The Chairperson urged the DG to engage with the report on the skills audit since the consultant had abandoned the work after being paid, because it was concerning that the Department had paid for a service that it had not received.

DMV's response

Deputy Minister Makwetla said the Department had had a meeting with the AGSA and discussed the report. They had dealt with the matters that had been raised, and highlighted that the audit action plan was part of the action plan that had been developed as one of the programmes. The concluding remarks made in the report were very important, because they shed more light on making sure that all the findings were resolved by the end of the year. He also said that the under-spending had been concerning, because more delivery should have taken place. The under-spending was also happening when the Department had been subjected to budget cuts, and this was a matter of concern.

Ms Mpolweni said that the issue of consequence management in the Department was being dealt with. The response that was given about irregular expenditure had not been satisfactory, and therefore she had questioned some of these issues when she was appointed because there were a couple of projects that were not finished. Four senior managers had been released from their duties because of the irregular expenditure. Further investigations must be done to resolve all the matters that were connected to irregular expenditure. She also mentioned the directors who had been suspended because of the irregular expenditure. Once a comprehensive report had been compiled, it would be presented to the Committee.

Ms Mpolweni said the DMV was looking at strengthening asset management within the Department so that going forward, they could do the work internally and save more money. The DG told the Committee that they hoped to finalise the hearings that were related to consequence management so that they could move on to other issues. The Department had also improved in the way it had been responding to the Committee, and they looked forward to continuing working with the Committee in this fashion.

The Chairperson asked about the cancelled R198 million contract. He wanted to know the terms of the contract.

Ms Mpolweni responded that the matter had taken place before she was appointed, but the Department had been taken to court by a service provider after it was ascertained that the contract had been irregularly awarded.

The Chairperson thanked Ms Mpolweni for her engagement, and said that it had been a good decision to appoint a Director General, because it would assist in the engagements between the Department and the Committee.

He asked the Deputy Minister to give his closing remarks.

Deputy Minister Makwetla said the oversight Committee was correct to note the suspensions with concern, because only four employees had been suspended to date. He added that the Department would like to resolve the situation as a matter of urgency.

The Chairperson thanked the Director General and the Deputy Minister for their engagement with the Committee.

Committee matters

The Committee adopted its updated programme, with changes.

The minutes of 2 June, 18 and 25 August 2021, were adopted.

The meeting was adjourned.