Western Cape Community Policing Forums & SAPS; with Deputy Minister

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Police

31 August 2021
Chairperson: Ms T Joemat-Pettersson (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee held a virtual meeting to discuss community policing issues in the Western Cape province with the South African Police Service (SAPS), the Western Cape Department of Community Safety and the Cluster Chairpersons of the Community Policing Forums. This was to follow up on an earlier meeting held in November 2019.

The presentations highlighted that 147 of 151 police stations in the Western Cape have concluded annual general meetings for their Community Policing Forums and elected their leadership.

The Western Cape Department of Community Safety outlined a new way of working, called the Area-Based Teams approach. This is an integrated and collaborative approach that will be implemented in the metropolitan and district municipalities. Members sought clarity on how this approach would fund and support the functions of community policing structures such as both Forums and Neighbourhood Watches.

The Cluster Chairpersons of the Community Policing Forums summarised the challenges in their working relationships with SAPS and the Western Cape department. This included a statement that Western Cape provincial legislation presently hampered progress.

The overall question posed by Members was why these provincial matters came to Parliament only from the Western Cape. Why had the province and the policing and community structures failed to find a way to restore and manage their relationship themselves?

Members asked what the formula is for allocation of resources to community policing forums in other provinces, and how much money they are given. What type of projects can the forums apply for funding? What progress had been made in the Western Cape about the need for new police stations and the shortage of SAPS personnel and resources since the meeting in November 2019, to date? Members of forums did not receive any stipends, but what sort of training did they receive? Was the training accredited? Members asked for clarity on the difference between the Area-Based Teams approach and the Expanded Partnership Programme, and why the latter was discontinued. What legislation governed the establishment of Neighbourhood Watches?

Members suggested that municipalities are equally responsible for working with community policing structures and law enforcement to ensure safe and secure environments. The municipalities must be asked to take responsibility for what is happening within their communities and not just blame the police. The National Commissioner of Police agreed that the role of municipalities in reducing crime needs to be defined.

The Chairperson said that the Committee will place tremendous pressure on the Civilian Secretariat of Police and SAPS to speed up the amendment of the SAPS Act, as a means to clarify roles and responsibilities across the police value chain, and to strengthen policing. She also tasked Members of the Committee who are from the Western Cape to further engage with the provincial department, the Provincial Commissioner and forum cluster chairpersons to address the community policing challenges within the province.

Meeting report

The Chairperson greeted the Members, National Commissioner of Police, representatives from the South African Police Service (SAPS), and other representatives from the Western Cape. She asked that the Committee note the apologies.

Ms Babalwa Mbengo, Committee Secretary, said that apologies were received from Minister Bheki Cele and Ms M Molekwa (ANC). Rev K Meshoe (ACDP) would leave the meeting early to join another committee meeting.

The Chairperson said that the Committee had a new Whip, who goes by the name “Nocks” Seabi. He is a very seasoned politician, who has been in Parliament for a very long time. He has occupied several senior positions in the ANC and in Parliament. The Whip was most welcome and as part of his introduction she asked that he say a few words. Mr Seabi does know the Members, nonetheless, she would ask the Members to introduce themselves to him as a form of courtesy.

Mr Albert Mammoga Seabi, Whip of the Portfolio Committee on Police, thanked the Chairperson for her kind words of welcome. He greeted the Members, the administrators and the visitors, especially the top management of police. He said that it was his honour and privilege to be part of the Portfolio Committee. He expected it to be a challenging Committee, because of the challenges that South Africa faces, but he knew that the Committee has men and women who can rise up to those challenges. It is his commitment to work with the Members of this Committee to ensure that they build a better South Africa. Of course, he was new in this Committee and he would rely on the guidance from the Chairperson and the Members. He asked that Members be patient with him as he learned the ropes.

The Chairperson said that she had worked with the Whip in many fora and she had always had the greatest respect for him. The Committee looked forward to working with him and they will give him their full cooperation. He was joining a team, with the Deputy Minister who is always with the Committee, as well as the National Commissioner and his team of professionals. The Committee does have its glitches, like any other Committee, but the Members can see that Mr Seabi is ready to Whip the Committee, so the Committee will take the marching orders from the Whip. She reminded the Members that the Whip was there to ensure that the Committee follows the prescripts of Parliament. There are certain rules of Parliament that have to be followed, these are not the Whip’s rules but the rules that are enshrined in the Constitution and that make our democracy work. She asked that the Members from their different political parties, starting with the Deputy Minister from the ANC, introduce themselves so that the Whip had a record for his purposes.

Mr Cassel Mathale, Deputy Minister of Police, congratulated Mr Seabi as the Committee’s Whip. He said that Mr Seabi is one of the leaders who he has worked with and he knows his capabilities. The Committee and SAPS look forward to be guided by his leadership and to work with him, they congratulate and wish him well with his new responsibilities.

Ms P Faku (ANC) said that the ANC welcomes the new Whip. They hope that with his experience, he will be able to guide the Committee as they move forward and fight against crime in South Africa. He is welcomed with warms arms.

Ms N Peacock (ANC) congratulated Mr Seabi. She hopes that with his capacity and guidance that the Committee will work with him to make this Committee a success.

Ms L Moss (ANC) said that the ANC welcomes the new Whip. She knows that he will give the Committee political direction, particularly with the challenges that they face with the Department of Police and other entities. She hopes that on the last day of 2021 that commemorates women's liberation, that the new Whip will take this Committee forward.

Ms S Patrein (ANC) welcomed the new Whip.

The Chairperson said that Mr A Whitfield (DA) had indicated that he has connectivity issues, but he welcomes and congratulates the new Whip.

Mr O Terblanche (DA) welcomed and congratulated the new Whip. He wished him well and he is sure that the new Whip will work with this Committee in the best interest of the people of South Africa.

Dr P Groenewald (FF+) said that it is a new challenge for the Whip. He wished him luck, because this is not an easy Portfolio Committee. He believes that the new Whip will bring constructive contributions.

Rev K Meshoe (ACDP) welcomed the new Whip and said that the Committee looks forward to having a working relationship with him. He informed Mr Seabi that he is an alternate Member and that he might be in another committee meeting later.

The Chairperson said that Dr Groenewald had indicated that he will leave at 10:00am.

Mr H Shembeni (EFF) welcomed Mr Seabi on behalf of the EFF. He hopes that Mr Seabi will bring a lot of experience and help the Committee go forward.

Mr M Shaik Emam (NFP) indicated that he was attending three meetings at the same time, so he apologised for being in and out of the meeting. He congratulated the new Whip and said that the country is facing a very difficult situation. He is confident that Mr Seabi is equal to the task and that he will lead the Committee by example. He wished Mr Seabi all the best.

Ms Z Majozi (IFP) welcomed the new Whip. She hopes that the new Whip and the Committee will work well together.

Gen Khehla Sitole, National Commissioner of Police, said that SAPS extends a warm welcome and congratulates the new Whip; SAPS promises him a high level of compliance and support. He indicated that SAPS is trying to follow the direction of the country and that the new Whip’s guidance is appreciated in advance. He asked the Chairperson if he should introduce the SAPS delegation.

The Chairperson replied that Gen Sitole should introduce the delegation when SAPS does their presentation. She just wanted the National Commissioner to introduce himself so that he can be familiar with the new Whip, since the Whip will be working quite closely with Gen Sitole and his team. She said that she will arrange a meeting for herself as Chairperson, the National Commissioner, the Minister, Deputy Minister and the Whip, just so that they are on the same page, in terms of what the expectations are, what the outstanding issues are and the way forward.

The Chairperson said that it was her pleasure to introduce the MEC for Community Safety in the Western Cape, Adv Albert Fritz, and the Provincial Community Police Forum (CPF) Board Chairperson, Ms Fransina Lukas. She asked that they introduce themselves.

Adv Fritz greeted the Members, Gen Sitole and his team, the CPF Cluster Chairpersons, and he welcomed the new Whip.

Ms Lukas greeted the Members, Gen Sitole, SAPS management and the Deputy Minister. She said that she was not alone and that a delegation from the CPF Clusters had joined the meeting, including the Chairpersons from Beaufort West, Vredendal, Vredenburg, Khayelitsha, Blue Downs, Milnerton, Da Gamaskop, Cape Town, Nyanga and Overberg. She said that the 16 CPF Cluster Chairpersons were grateful for the opportunity to make the voices of the communities heard.

The Chairperson reminded Adv Fritz to introduce Adv Yashina Pillay, who was sitting next to him. Adv Fritz confirmed that Adv Yashina Pillay is the Head of Department for Community Safety in the Western Cape.

The Chairperson apologised that the guests would have to sit through some of the Committee’s housekeeping. She promised that it would not take too long. She asked that Members refer to the agenda and that it be adopted. Ms Peacock proposed the adoption of the agenda. Ms Majozi and Mr Shaik Emam seconded.

Adoption of Minutes

The Committee considered and adopted its minutes of 8 June, 9 June, 10 June, 29 July, 30 July, 17 August, 18 August and 24 August 2021 be adopted.

Presentations

The Chairperson said that the first presentation will be led by SAPS and Gen Sitole will introduce his team. The three presentations will follow and thereafter the Committee will have questions and answers.

The Deputy Minister said that Gen Sitole will introduce the SAPS team and lead the SAPS presentation.

Gen Sitole introduced the delegation and said the SAPS presentation will be led by Lt Gen (Adv)Thembisile Patekile. The presentation is just to inform the Committee that SAPS does have a formally approved community policing strategy, which was also announced by the President at the State of the Nation Address (SONA). At the present moment and since the introduction of the district policing model, SAPS is going through a national review of the community policing setup and the alignment to the new structures that has been adopted through the restructuring process.

Presentation by SAPS: Follow-up meeting with the South African Police Service, the Western Cape Department of Community Safety and Cluster Chairpersons of the Community Policing Forums. (See document)

Lt Gen (Adv) Patekile, Provincial Commissioner: Western Cape, presented the following:

Status of Annual General Meetings (AGMs)

- The Western Cape has 151 police stations, of which 147 police stations successfully conducted their CPF AGMs.

-Police stations CPF AGMs that are still outstanding: Beaufort West, Strand, Philippi, and Elsies River.

Challenges

- The National State of Disaster was announced and therefore, all the CPF AGMs could not be concluded, before 31 March 2020. 147 police stations, out of a total of 151, have concluded their elections. Disputes, with regard to the integrity of elections have been resolved. Re-elections were placed on hold, due to the lockdown restrictions.

- The police station CPFs communicated with communities through various media platforms, as community engagements were not possible, due to lockdown restrictions.

Compliance inspections conducted and findings

- Compliance inspections, by the Provincial Office, were conducted at police stations, to ensure the functionality of CPFs and to have a Portfolio of Evidence.

- The Community Safety Plans were outstanding, as a result of the restriction of movement due to the Disaster Management Act: Regulations.

Update on the Rural Safety Plan

- The Rural Safety Plan has been rolled out to 99 rural police stations, in the Western Cape.

- The eight pillars of the strategy are aimed at building effective capacity and capability, improving policing in rural areas, through back-to-basics, improving policing infrastructure in rural police stations, strengthening governance system for rural areas, improving communication and marketing for rural areas, enhancing community involvement and stakeholder collaboration, implementing the Organised Crime Threat Assessment (OCTA) and ensuring the monitoring and implementation of the Plan.

- Rural Safety Priority Committees have been established and are chaired by the Provincial Head: Visible Policing

- Action plans have subsequently been developed and implemented at the identified rural safety police stations.

Presentation by Western Cape Department of Community Safety (DoCS): Relationship with Community Policing Forums (CPFs) and Neighbourhood Watches (NHWs). (See document)

Mr David Coetzee, Director of Security Risk Management, Western Cape Government, presented the following:

· Former challenges and how these are being addressed

- Shortage of resources to CPFs and NHWs: The 16 identified priority areas are being resourced with the establishment of Area-Based Teams (ABT approach), and with ABT support interventions through a skilled network of broad-spectrum practitioners (govt and non-govt role players).

- Funding allocation for the EPP CPF project (Expanded Partnership Programme): The EPP has been discontinued. Instead, the Department has a new way of working, called the ABT Approach. Funding allocations are concentrated in the 16 ABT areas to make an impactful difference. CPFs will still be able to apply for annual baseline funding.

- CPF had poor or no relationship with NHWs and DoCS: Strengthened partnerships and building good relationships between safety partners (CPFs, NHWs) are being built up in the ABT areas as a starting point. The Department is driving these processes in partnership with key safety stakeholders. NHWs are undergoing professionalisation training to contribute more significantly to communities. CPFs and NHWs are required to work collaboratively.

- Communication challenges which CPFs experienced has affected their daily performance: Communication has improved tremendously. DoCS officials support and provide orientation training to CPFs when requested. Communication has also improved due to the increased availability of DoCS officials to assist CPFs. The Department has rolled out its new CPF funding initiative where CPFs are invited to apply for annual funding to assist them with administrative or project costs.

· ABT Methodology (slide 6)

· Status of CPF AGMs 2019/20-2021/22

- DoCS and SAPS are working together to resolve the governance and procedural matters to conclude the outstanding four CPF AGMs.

· Supporting CPFs (slide 9)

DoCS is committed to continuing its support of CPFs under the new way of work and the ABT approach 2021/22. 

· Supporting NHWs during 2020/21 (slide 10)

- Accredited NHWs received funding support and PPE equipment.

- NHW Schools Deployment Project: Placement of NHWs at/around identified high risk schools, to prevent vandalism and violence. 

Presentation by Western Cape CPF Cluster Chairpersons (See document)

Ms Fransina Lukas, Provincial CPF Board Chairperson, said that the CPF is a legally mandated body in terms of the Constitution and the SAPS Act 68 of 1995. The CPF are equal partners with SAPS and DoCS and they want to be treated as such. She presented the following:

· Concerns raised by CPFs in Portfolio Committee on Police meeting, November 2019. (Slide 3-4)

- Relationship breakdown and trust issues between CPF, SAPS and DoCS.

- Lack of involvement of other government departments. The Department of Police should not be the only department that is active in the communities. Many of the issues that confront the communities are of a social and economic nature.

- Deteriorating relationship between CPF and NHW as a result of accreditation process of DoCS. The NHW were given large sums of monies from their accreditation process with DoCS, while CPF were given none or very little support.

· What has been done (slide 5)

- Station level AGMs 99% done; four outstanding CPF station AGMs.

- CPF mobilisation of communities against looting and destruction of property and infrastructure during the national unrest, July 2021, to ensure that no looting happened in the Western Cape.

- New ABT Approach.

· CPF challenges with DoCS (slide 6-9)

- CPF induction training through DoCS are not empowering to communities.

- Western Cape Community Safety Act, 2013 further limits the functions of CPF and goes against the constitutional instruction of Act 108 of 1996.

- Regarding the DoCS EPP Transfer Payment Agreements (TPA), the CPF was utilised for compliance purposes rather than for effectiveness and partnership rendering.

- The information gained through the EPP would have been an effective tool, however DoCS had no ability to store the information captured therefore no complaints and potential problems were ever recorded through the system. Thus, creating a further divide in the partnership as complaints were not attended to.

- CPF felt that they were used as nothing more than a box ticking exercise rather than an effective community policing partner in reducing crime.

- The bolstering of funding to NHWs and the decrease of funding to CPFs.

· Challenges with SAPS (Slide 10)

- Lack of communication and consultation on pertinent issues relating to the partnership.

- Refusal to meet with elected representatives of the community (CPF Cluster chairpersons) to discuss safety concerns of the community

· Recently released Crime Stats and Role of CPF in fighting Crime

- The quarterly crime stats showed an increased in contact crime and murder.

- CPF plays a critical role in community mobilisation and coordination on the fight against crime.

Discussion

The Chairperson thanked all the presenters. She said that this is the last time that the Committee will invite the Western Cape CPFs. The Western Cape CPFs and the Western Cape DoCS need to solve their problems. No other provincial CPFs has met with the Committee except the Western Cape, and this is the second time that that they have been invited. The Committee needs to invite the CPFs of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng. As a National Assembly, the Committee cannot be seized with matters happening in the Western Cape all the time, so this was their last opportunity. When the Western Cape CPFs leave the meeting today, it is not to say that they are on their own, but it is time that they solve their problems within their province.

She informed the National Commissioner and Deputy Minister that the Western Cape takes too much of the Committee’s time. When SAPS has a problem, then all of those problems are deposited at the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Police, and if she is inundated with complaints, it means that their systems are not working. The Portfolio Committee on Police cannot run SAPS and cannot run the Western Cape; it is time that they solve their problems in their province. She will not ask for monthly reports on these matters but she will request a definite way forward, and the Western Cape Provincial Commissioner and the National Commissioner will report on this.

Mr Whitfield said that he shared the same sentiment as the Chairperson. He did not think that the Committee can extend its involvement on this issue any further, but he asked for clarity on the various allegations regarding the constitutionality of the Western Cape’s approach to CPFs and community policing. To refer to something as “unconstitutional” is a significant claim [see slide 6]. He asked the Western Cape Government for clarity, as to how they interpret that allegation and what their view is on their approach, insofar as the Constitution is concerned.

He thanked Ms Lukas for her presentation, and referred to her remark on some of the issues such as the national norms for the way that CPFs are treated in other provinces. He asked what the formula is for allocation of resources to CPFs in other provinces, and how much money they are given.

He asked the DoCS whether, given the financial implications of such allocations of funding and the issues of the financing of the SAPS Amendment Bill, the Western Cape Government had been approached by National Treasury or SAPS in respect of how they would support the financing of the relationship between community policing structures.

Mr Terblanche referred to the SAPS presentation, specifically the Rural Safety Plan that has been rolled out to 99 rural police stations in the Western Cape. He asked to what extent the capacitation and capability has been finalised.

He referred to the DoCS presentation. It was mentioned that CPFs can apply for funding for certain projects. What type of projects can the CPFs possibly apply for? He asked if the Committee could get an indication on the amount of money that was available in the provinces, for such projects, that can be distributed amongst the different CPFs.

He agreed with the Chairperson and Mr Whitfield’s remarks that the CPF presentation made serious allegations. He thought the Committee should get an indication on when those problems would be solved. There had also been mention of the concerns that the CPF clusters raised in November 2019, about the need for new police stations and the shortage of SAPS personnel and resources. He asked SAPS what has been done since that meeting in November 2019, to date.

Mr Shembeni asked for clarity on the difference between the Area-Based Teams (ABT approach) and the Expanded Partnership Programme (EPP). He asked why the EPP was discontinued and why the ABT approach is in its place. How effective is the ABT approach in the communities?

He referred to the concerns raised by the CPFs in November 2019, specifically the need for police stations in Makhaza, Da Gamaskop, Kwanonqoba, Lwandle and Fisante Kraal. He asked if there was any progress. The relationship between the CPFs and NHWs was seemingly problematic, especially concerning the budgets. He asked who is in control of the budgets for CPFs and the NHWs, and how are they operating. He asked for clarity on the allocation of funds for CPFs in the different provinces. Was there an equal budget allocation for each province?

Ms Peacock concurred with the Chairpersons remarks. She agreed that the CPFs, NHWs and DoCS need to find a way to restore and manage their relationship. It cannot be brought upon the Committee to manage that. She also referred to the issue around the funding allocations with the ABT approach. She asked if there was a policy that guides the allocation of funds so that one community structure does not feel like the other is more advantaged. She said the [people serving on] CPFs do not get a stipend, nor a salary, but when the Western Cape Government says that they are giving the CPFs capacity then it means that they should at least be getting training. She asked if this training was accredited, because if they are not given a stipend, then they should at least get proper training that is accredited so that they can have something to empower themselves with, even after they are done serving in these community structures. She therefore asked for clarity on the training and capacitation, and if the training is registered with Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA), to ensure that the quality and standard of the training will empower the CPF members.

Ms Majozi referred to the four outstanding CPF AGMs, and asked how quickly they will ensure that those AGMs take place, so that there is stability in the police stations and around the communities that they would be deployed in. With the current situations that have happened, she is glad that the looting did not take place in the Western Cape, especially because of the dynamics and challenges that they are facing. She expressed that she is also worried about the training that are provided to the CPFs. When listening to the presentation, it seemed that the NHWs are getting more attention that the CPFs. She questioned this because the CPFs play an important role in the communities. There should not be instances of CPFs not getting trained and not getting the resources that they should be getting. She asked for clarity on this, so that the Committee can intervene on those areas.

Ms Moss said that she was not present when the Committee met with the Western Cape CPFs and NHWs in November 2019, but what she observed based on her reading and the presentations is that there has been no progress. It seems the same as what was presented in November 2019. She reiterated the Chairperson’s remarks that the Western Cape’s community policing structures should solve their problems. The Western Cape is the only province that had the opportunity to brief the Committee in Parliament on their CPFs and NHWs. The Committee is not there to solve their problems of difference.

In terms of the legislative establishment of the CPFs, she said that what is happening in the Western Cape is not supposed to be as it is. She said that it is frank and not biased for her to say that Adv Fritz, MEC, Community Safety, is a person with capacity and he has given guidance when he served the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services, and when he left that portfolio committee, he was missed dearly; she trusts that when he leaves this platform today that the DoCS will work out how to solve the problems, so that the Committee does not hear these issues again.

She asked when the NHW was established, and under what legislation, policies or framework was it established. She said that the community policing structures are not only for the cities and urban areas, but also for the rural areas. The drug lords are now moving towards the rural areas. She said that where she stays in the West Coast, the community is in unrest. She stays in the middle of her community and she observes this every day. When she left Parliament in 2014, it was very hard for her to fit into her community, because the community is destroyed. Yesterday she received a call from the community and communication manager of Cederberg; and where she was deployed as a Member of Parliament. Those police stations were not in a good condition, especially where the people are detained. When she was there in 2009 and 2011, the conditions were bad in Elands Bay. She emphasised that it was not only a concern for new police stations that are needed, but the police stations that are not human friendly must also be renovated and upgraded.

She asked what interventions have taken place in George and Plettenberg Bay communities, in the Southern Cape, because the N2 is always closed. She questioned if any intervention has taken place, and if SAPS and CPFs are involved. She asked if community meetings in those areas were called. She asked if the closures were due to service delivery protests, because there is always an uprising in those communities and then the N2 is closed. The N2 is not only for the Southern Cape but it also affects those that drive from KwaZulu-Natal and Eastern Cape when coming into the Western Cape.

Mr Shaik Emam said that people very often use SAPS as the scapegoat and it is not fair. He was present in the meeting with the Western Cape CPFs and NHWs, in November 2019, and he agreed that it seems as though there has been absolutely no progress between DoCS, CPFs and NHWs. These role players should meet on a common platform, to deliberate and build a good working relationship. SAPS has reported on a lot of success stories in police action, but he asked what successes do they have through the CPFs and NHWs? The CPFs and NHWs are supposed to be the eyes and ears for the police and work together with the police, and yet, the latest statistics for gender-based violence increase all the time. Therefore, the question that one must ask is whether CPFs and NHWs are effective. He said that if SAPS is blamed for everything, then what is the responsibility of the municipalities, because they are the people who take the rates and taxes from the people. Do the municipalities not have an equal responsibility to work with the CPFs, NHWs, SAPS and other law enforcement to provide a safe and secure environment?

His understanding is that the police are supposed to be preventing the crime, but they spend more time dealing with the matters after the crime has already been committed. At some point, the municipalities must be asked to take responsibility for what is happening within their communities and not just blame the police. If the municipalities do not create a safe and secure environment for people to live in, then of course the crime rate will increase.

In terms of empowering the CPFs and NHWs, he emphasised that those are people who give up their time, effort and energy but are not compensated. This is something which the Members have been questioning for a long period of time because people need to be motivated to do more, if not, then they will do it as and when they want to do it and not yield positive results.

The DoCS, CPFs, and NHWs are supposed to work with SAPS to prevent the crime. His concern is what are the CPFs and NHWs doing when people are being raped; it is just like the non-government organisations and non-profit organisations that all run to the court and put-up placards after a woman is raped, but that is the communities that they come from. Why have we not been able to prevent these crimes from being committed? People in the communities are supposed to be the eyes and the ears. He therefore thinks that these structures need to change their direction in the way that they conduct themselves if they want to create safer environments.

The Chairperson concurred with Members that since their last engagement with the Western Cape CPFs and NHWs, in November 2019, which was almost two years before, very little progress has happened. The Committee Members are really concerned and have to express their dismay that there has been very little movement on this. However, there are certain functions of the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) which the Committee cannot be responsible for in the National Assembly. The matter of provinces and how to deal with each and every province is the function of the NCOP. The Committee will therefore have to speak to Ms Shahida Bowers, Procedural Adviser: NCOP, to ask about when the provinces actually have an opportunity to brief the NCOP. The Portfolio Committee on Police is now doing the work of the NCOP.

The Portfolio Committee on Police is responsible for policy and for legislation. The Minister, Deputy Minister and National Commissioner of Police are going to be under tremendous pressure from the Committee to complete the amendment of the SAPS Act. SAPS do not have a policy. Part of the Constitution says that SAPS itself needs a policy. She therefore asked why they are questioning the policies of provinces, when as a national government and as this Committee they are responsible for the amendment of the SAPS Act. The Committee is totally undermined when it comes to the amendment of the SAPS Act. The amendment of the SAPS Act is where the roles, functions, reporting and oversight mechanisms of the CPFs would be. This is where one can legally clarify the difference between CPFs and NHWs, and have a uniform system for the entire country. The SAPS Act, has never been brought in line with the new Constitution. She said that Members would spend their time until the end of this session of Parliament, discussing all of the gaps if they do not get to the bottom of the amendment of the SAPS Act. She will therefore not entertain a number of responses. All of the questions will not be answered, because the Committee is interested in crime statistics. The Committee is yet to break down the crime statistics of the Western Cape. She informed Members that in their new programme, that the Committee will spend two days on the crime statistics; one day on the national crime statistics and one day on breaking down the crime statistics on each province.

Responses

Gen Sitole said that as the Chairperson requested, he will not answer the questions individually, instead, he will respond by adding to what the Members have already said. He agreed that the Committee is nationally responsible for the strategic and policy direction of community policing in the country, and that direction needs to be operationalised and complied with by all nine provinces, right up to the station level where the direction for community policing should be implemented. To date, SAPS has gone through the whole regulatory framework for community policing strategy, in terms of the Constitution, the SAPS Act and other policy frameworks for community policing strategy as designed by the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service (CSPS). The community policing strategy will provide direction to all the CPF structures, on how community policing is operationalised, in terms of the Constitution and the community structures at the grassroots level.

He suggested that at another opportunity, SAPS be invited to brief the Committee on the community policing strategy. He explained that community policing is a strategic concept, whereas sector policing is the operational mechanism of community policing. Every other operational mechanism on the ground, for example the NHWs, are subject to the policy and operational direction of the community policing strategy. Any structure that exists and functions outside of that operational direction and policy framework is not necessarily supposed to be regarded or treated as legal. NHWs are part and parcel and subject to the direction of community policing, so they cannot exist on their own.

The community policing strategy clearly outlines the need for an integrated, multi-disciplinary and collaborated resource strategy. SAPS have observed that currently, there is a fragmented approach of resourcing community policing, where one province adopts its own approach, while another province has another approach. Therefore, there is a need for an integrated resource strategy that will help create a funded mandate for community policing, where it will be funded at national, provincial and local levels. He pleaded that as SAPS deal with the community policing strategy, that with the guidance and support of the Committee, SAPS can call for this integrated resource strategy, so that there is a resourced direction for community policing, which will also include stipends.

In terms of the turnaround vision, he said that the local policing framework is linked to a local crime prevention strategy, which defines the critical role of municipalities. He supports the Members remarks that they need to define the role of municipalities. All municipalities are supposed to have community safety plans, where community policing can be operationalised on the ground. Strategies need to be linked so that there is complementary process between the structures, and all of these structures should be linked to community policing.

He concluded that there has been inconsistency in leadership and delays due to Covid-19, but SAPS has appointed a permanent Provincial Commissioner for the Western Cape; and all Provincial Commissioners were instructed to meet with CPFs at least once per quarter, to maintain the partnership and provide direction to community policing.

MEC Fritz said that he would respond to the questions as recurring themes. He concurred with Members that provincial issues need to be sorted out in the province, but he also thinks that community policing structures cannot just ignore legislation. He referred to Section 18 of the SAPS Act and said that it clearly states that SAPS has the responsibility of establishing and maintaining partnership between community and police. The National Commissioner of Police has clearly confirmed that they are working on these policies. He thinks that the previous Head of Department for DoCS made a big mistake to include a lot of functions that had to deal with the CPFs in the provincial legislation, because there is no enabling legislation that binds the DoCS to CPFs. Although people may say there are problems, there are only four out of the 151 police stations in the Western Cape that have not concluded their CPF AGMs.

The statistics have indicated that most of the crime is committed in ten areas within the metropolitan municipality, and in five district municipalities of the Western Cape Province. He thanked Ms Moss for highlighting the plight of specifically poor rural communities. He is proud to reiterate what the National Commissioner has said, that each of the five district municipalities has a safety plan that was funded and is connected to all of the structures of community policing. He is willing to take the Committee on trips to see some of those districts, so that Members can see the Swartland and Overstrand K9 unit dogs; and to look at why the N2 has not been closed in Grabouw, to see the work done by the mediators in those areas. There are young people who have also been funded by DoCS, with the notion of assisting communities to be safe. He said the ABT approach is a government, society and community approach, which includes CPFs and NHWs.

The supposed tension between CPFs and NHWs is invented, because communities will protect themselves. He said that in his community, there are a group of people who protect their streets at night. Whether government likes it or not, people will locally protect their streets or blocks and make their communities safe. He emphasised that an important part of the ABT approach is that, instead of beating or just arresting the youngsters on the streets, the communities should save those youngsters. He questioned why those youngsters who are arrested cannot be taken to a diversion programme that takes them out of crime and places them in youth development programmes. He said that many Members, including the Chairperson and Ms Moss come from a youth development background, and that they should continue to foster that, and to identity how CPFs and NHWs can have a far more functional role.

He agreed with Mr Shaik Emam, that all these community policing structures exist, yet, the crime statistics increase. Crime prevention should be prioritised to resolve the organic issues that can be broken. He reminded Members that the Western Cape Government has assisted SAPS to deploy 600 extra law enforcement officers, that are boots on the ground to assist the police under the command of SAPS. He thinks that one may forget what Section 151(1) of the Constitution states, in terms of the different spheres of the policing system; and these national, provincial and local functions need to be taken far more seriously.

He said that the EPP was discontinued because the former Head of Department for DoCS left. DoCS had since renewed their approach to integrate community safety in a far more organic way, instead of ticking boxes for oversight.

There was a case of a young student from Johannesburg who was partying past curfew. The students were arrested, which is correct, but when a student is arrested, no matter what colour, then that person has the right to safety in custody; and that right is also one of the roles that CPF is supposed to play. Unfortunately, the young man was raped that night in custody. He is now a completely destroyed person and other measures needed to be identified to assist him. How do we safeguard people in custody, without them being murdered, raped or assaulted in custody?

He informed the Chairperson that DoCS will be engaging in the NCOP next week, for the debate on policing.

In terms of the training, he said that the DoCS will continue to support learning and will try to provide accredited training to community safety stakeholders as soon as possible, but in the meantime, there are some other amazing training programmes in place.

He agreed that the Department of Police should really look at empowering legislation. He respectfully said that the allegation that the DoCS has violated the Constitution, is absolutely absurd.

He concluded that there are safety plans in the Garden Route District Municipality, Cape Winelands District Municipality, Central Karoo District Municipality, Overberg District Municipality and the West Coast District Municipality; and in each of those municipalities are hot spots. DoCS has also expanded the community safety plan and the Youth Safety Ambassador Programme to the entire province. The DoCs will work on a similar system to assist SAPS, with regard to keeping the N2 open at George and Plettenberg Bay; it is a sin to close that road because it is one of the arterial roads that bring in the economy, which also bring in a lot of wrong things but the dog units will prevent a lot of that from happening.

Ms Lukas requested that at least one other CPF Cluster Chairperson besides herself be allowed to make a few remarks.

The Chairperson asked Ms Lukas to list the names of the CPF Cluster Chairpersons.

Ms Lukas said that the CPF Cluster Chairpersons present in the meeting include Mr David Steenkamp, Cluster Chairperson: Beaufort West; Mr Henry Arangie, Cluster Chairperson: Vredendal; Mr Reginald Maart, Cluster Chairperson: Blue Downs; Mr AJ Tajodien, Cluster Chairperson: Milnerton; Mr Sean McClelland, Cluster Chairperson: Tygerberg; Mr Ntebe, Cluster Chairperson: Da Gamaskop; Mr Mohamed Noordien, Cluster Chairperson: Cape Town; Mr Graham Lindhorst, Cluster Chairperson: Nyanga; Mr Christopher Maart, Cluster Chairperson: Vredenburg; Mr Stephen Jochims, Cluster Chairperson: Worcester and Ms Aziza Kannemeyer, Cluster Chairperson: Mitchells Plain.

On behalf of the Cluster Chairpersons, she thanked the Chairperson for allowing them the opportunity, and for giving them the national platform to come and state their case as CPFs from the Western Cape. She does believe that after this meeting, the CPFs will be moving in the right direction. She has heard the remarks from the National Commissioner and MEC for DoCS, and she agreed that they are all one in spirit that the Western Cape CPFs need to conclude their election process and sit around a table to discuss and resolve issues of the Western Cape.

She supports what the National Commissioner has said about community policing, that by the guidance of strategic policy and operational direction, there would be less problems; because the community policing structures will then focus on what needs to be done, by when it needs to be done and by who it needs to be done. She said that the real issue is crime; and the real question is how do these community safety partnerships fight the crime in their province. It cannot be correct that that the Western Cape is one of the leading provinces when it comes to the crime rate.

Now that Mr Gideon Morris was no longer the Head of Department at the Western Cape DoCS, she requested that the problems created under his leadership “be left at the door”, so that the community safety partnerships can move forward as a collective. She asked that the CPFs be treated equally and fairly, because they are not there for stipends or personal recognition—they are there to represent their communities. The CPF want the voices of the communities to be heard in everything that is done.

The Chairperson said that Ms Lukas had indicated the way forward. She is proud of Ms Lukas for being a woman leader and for bringing these matters to the attention of the Committee, but she has a problem that the CPF delegation is very male dominated.

Ms Lukas replied that the delegation being male dominated reflects a societal problem. Women elect the males to lead them, because they do not have confidence in themselves, but that does need to change.

The Chairperson said that she is reminding Ms Lukas that as the Western Cape CPFs do their next round of elections, that they look at gender sensitivity, the national question, as well as the matter of youth.

Way Forward

The Chairperson informed the Members, Whip and Deputy Minister that arranging this meeting was extremely difficult. The Committee had called this meeting because it was an outstanding commitment that the Committee had made. This Portfolio Committee on Police keeps its commitments. However, the Committee received a letter from the Provincial Commissioner that said that there are no structures and that the structures are now disbanded and illegal. It came as a huge surprise to her and she had to intervene; it was an indication that all is not well in the province. She asked Dr Irvin Kinnes, Committee Content Advisor, to refresh her memory on the letter and who she received the letter from.

Dr Kinnes said that the Committee received the letter from Colonel Steyn’s office, indicating a response from Lt Gen (Adv) Patekile, the Provincial Commissioner, who said that clusters have been dissolved because there is a new district [policing] model, which has certainly not been implemented yet, that is why nobody could yet be invited to the meeting.

The Chairperson told the Deputy Minister that he would now understand the confusion that was created in his own ranks. The Provincial Commissioner informed the Committee that there were no legal structures, hence there was no one to invite. She urged that the Committee meetings not be plagued by confusion on the ground, a lack of common policy and a lack of common operational plans.

She asked that the Whip assist with the closing remarks, although it is his first meeting with the Committee.

Mr Seabi said that this was his first meeting and he mostly observed, but he has learnt a lot from the contributions by Members and invitees. He agreed that the Committee is interest in policy development and legislation. He wants to put more weight on the Chairpersons remarks, that the Committee needs to expedite the amendment of the Act, so that there can be progress and to bring it in line with the Constitution. He said that the Committee will appeal for the executives to make sure that the SAPS Amendment Bill can see the light of day. He agreed with the National Commissioner, that the integrated resource strategy will assist in funding the CPFs, as the CPFs are really important community policing structures to deal with the crime in South Africa.

The Chairperson told Mr Seabi that they will work together and meet on Thursday [02 September]. She said that the SAPS Act was last amended prior to the current Constitution. It will be an indictment on the Committee to leave the SAPS Act as it is, and they will go down as another failed committee.

The Deputy Minister said that he had taken note of the concerns raised, including the issues that have emanated from themselves. The Department will speed up the structures of the CPFs, because SAPS will not succeed in the fight against crime without the community policing structures. It is in the Department’s interest to make it possible for community policing structures to collaborate with SAPS. He appreciated the working relationship that has evolved between the provincial administration and the City of Cape Town, and he is confident that they will be able to resolve the problems before them.

The Chairperson said that Adv Fritz, as MEC for Community Safety, has appeared before the Committee several times. Adv Fritz accounts to his province. When the Committee initially engaged with Adv Fritz and the SAPS, the hostility between the two groups was tangible. She concurred with the Deputy Minister that the relationship between SAPS and the Western Cape has improved. She thanked the CPFs because they have informed the Committee of the dire crisis, because the SAPS Act has not been amended and because there is no uniform policy on CPFs. She reiterated that if the Committee does not do its work of ensuring the amendment of the SAPS Act, then a number of problems will not be solved.

She was very proud that the CPF delegation was led by a woman. She told Ms Lukas that she is one of the activists who really keeps the matters of the CPFs high and on top of the agenda of this Committee. The Committee salutes her and her team.

She also thanked former Lt Gen Anwa Dramat who has worked tirelessly. He is one Lt Gen that did not just retire, but he is doing community work, he is really doing sterling work.

She told Gen Sitole that the Committee respects the fact that his team are away from their jobs to meet with the Committee on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. They will have a breather and not meet on the following day, they will meet the following week. The programme will be distributed to Gen Sitole, she informed him that the programme will double up.

She said that Mr Whitfield was the only Member who submitted inputs for the Terms of Reference for the Parliamentary Inquiry. Mr Whitfield’s inputs will be taken into account.

She thanked Members for adopting the minutes. It is quite tough to ensure that the Committee has an accurate reflection of the discussions that took place.

She referred to Adv Fritz and Lt Gen (Adv) Patekile and said that the Committee is confident that they will work with the province and with the CPFs. She emphasised that there are two Members from the Western Cape that are in this Committee, Ms Patrein and Ms Moss. She requested that Ms Patrein and Ms Moss engage with the MEC for DoCS and the Provincial Commissioner, because they have the right to call meetings as Members of Parliament. She urged them to please meet with the CPFs and to meet with the MEC and Provincial Commissioner, and not wait for the Committee to meet with them. She will not expect the problems of the Western Cape to manifest in the National Assembly meetings.

Mr Whitfield indicated that Mr Terblanche is also from the Western Cape.

The Chairperson said that she will hold Ms Patrein, Ms Moss and Mr Terblanche accountable for the Western Cape, so that the problems of the Western Cape do not come to the National Assembly. She will engage with the Committee Members from the Western Cape on a regular basis; she urged that the CPF Clusters should also engage with them as well.

The meeting was adjourned.

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