CWP: Remodelling & implementation of forensic report’s recommendations; Matters relating to Initiation: stakeholder engagement; with Minister and Deputy Minister

Meeting report

Opening remarks by the Chairperson

The Chairperson outlined the agenda for the meeting. The Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs (COGTA) would present on the Community Works Programme (CWP), and this presentation would include the implementation of the audit outcome and forensic investigations that have been conducted (there are five investigations currently underway). She requested that the National House of Traditional Leaders (NHTL) and the Congress of traditional Leaders of SA (CONTRALESA) provide input on the value and the impact of the CWP programmes in their constituencies. Discussions would then ensue.  

In the second part of the meeting, the Chairperson stated that the Committee would discuss the cultural practice of initiation, which is a concerning matter, due to the number of deaths.

CWP

The Chairperson said the CWP forms a significant part of the Department’s operational expenditure. Much of this expenditure relates to the payments made to both the participants in the programmes and the implementing partners of the CWP programmes. The Committee has deduced that in the last seven financial years, the total overall expenditure on this programme amounted to an accumulated value of R15.5 billion. A more detailed breakdown is as follows:

• R1.2 billion was spent in 2012/13.
• R1.7 billion was spent in 2013/14
• R1.6 billion was spent in 2014/15
• R2.3 billion was spent in 2015/16
• R2.3 billion was spent in 2016/17
• R3.1 billion was spent in 2017/18 and
• R3.3 billion was spent in 2018/19.

Since assuming office, the Committee has consistently maintained that there must be value for money when significant amounts of public money are spent. There was concern that there had not been value for money in this programme. In the 2011/2012 financial year, the Department recorded irregular expenditure that amounted to R48.3 million. The Department obtained permission from National Treasury (Treasury) to write-off an amount of R804.6 million, which was made up of R337.7 million and R418.6 million irregular expenditure incurred in connection with CWP tenders, emanating from 2012-2015. To prevent the re-occurrence of these instances, the previous Minister committed to consulting the CWP implementation manual regularly, perform quarterly audits and communicate non-compliance matters to the compliance officer. In addition, the Minister committed to ensuring that the unit heads would compile irregular expenditure reports on a monthly basis. Internal audits would then validate and submit the monthly reports to the accounting officer.

In it 2014/2015 report, the Auditor- General (AG) found that the Minister had not implemented what he had promised. Irregular expenditure amounting to R429 million – relating to CWP non-compliance of supply chain management (SCM) – was identified in the 2015/2016 financial year. This trend continued into the 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 financial years, as the Department incurred further irregular expenditure, which amounted to R329 million in 2016/2017 and R344.4 million in 2017/2018, as it did not follow the correct procurement processes for providing CWP contracts. The cause for this irregular expenditure was that management did not implement the agreed management action plans, emanating from the previous financial year. Procurement processes were not followed once more in the year under review, as the Department made payments to non-qualifying Government employees in the CWP. It also paid for goods and services that were not received at the CWP sites. Fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the programme, for the year under review, amounted to R151.7 million. Of which R765 000 resulted from the non-attendance for training of CWP participants. All of this illustrated a disturbing audit trend and to end the maladministration and malfeasance, the Committee previously recommended that the Department considers doing a comprehensive review of the CWP programme. This review has not been forthcoming. Much of the presentation document compiled by the Department repeats previous promises made to the Committee.

Programme discussions between members of the NHTL and the Committee were held on 17 November and there was broad consensus that CWP programmes did not place adequate focus on rural areas, which was disappointing, as these areas are poorer and benefit less from service delivery initiatives, compared to their urban counterparts. Also included in the discussion were the fatalities that have continued to occur during the cultural process of initiation. The Department of Traditional Affairs (DTA) presentation indicated that almost 239 young men lost their lives to initiations between 2016/2017 and this was concerning. This matter was also raised when the Committee had met with the CRL Rights Commission. The Committee expressed hope that with all the relevant stakeholders present, more light could be shed on the matter.

Ms Avril Williamson, Director General: Department of Cooperative Governance (DCoG), thanked the Committee for the opportunity. She said that the Departments presentation would give an update with regard to the audit outcomes, with emphasis on the previous financial year. It would focus on all the negative audit outcomes and disclaimers. The presentation would also provide an analysis of the CWP and look at its weaknesses, particularly the design of the programme. She hoped that it would demonstrate the progress made, especially this year.

Mr H Hoosen (DA) asked that the DG express her opinion on what state the CWP programmes are currently in. Furthermore, what role has she played in turning the situation around, as this issue required senior intervention? He asked that she answer his questions during her introductory remarks.

The Chairperson mentioned that the Committee was disappointed that it had to wait for her to attend the meeting. The Committee felt that she could have delegated someone to chair the international conference. In a previous meeting, the DG had also not sent an apology to the Committee for her non-attendance – until Members had raised the matter with her. This was disappointing, as the Committee had been discussing serious matters. She asked if the DG wanted to account to the Committee or if she had other priorities. In addition, had the DG understood her roles and responsibilities to the Committee?

Ms Williamson apologised to the Committee and mentioned that the Department had made a late request to delay the meeting because of her prior engagements. As it was the first time she was involved in such a programme, she thought it be would be important to engage on the International Disaster Risk Recovery process. She confirmed that the Department does take the role that the Committee plays seriously. Furthermore, it does understand the level of accountability it has towards the Committee. Currently, it is occupied with several priorities and it is trying to play the cooperative role that the Chairperson and the Committee expects of it.

The Department has considered all of the issues raised by the Chairperson in her introductory remarks. It has since implemented several of the recommendations made by the AG in the audit report and conducted investigations into matters that have been instituted by the Department. Ms Williamson confirmed that more information would be provided during the discussion to ensue.

Due to technical difficulties, the Committee requested that the Department presents the document later during the course of the meeting.

Opening remarks by the Deputy Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs

Deputy Minister Obed Bapela indicated that the prohibition of the initiation season has been in effect throughout Level 5 of the lockdown until Level 1. In September, the Cabinet took a decision that it would remain suspended/prohibited. The Minister was asked to engage those who want to conduct their initiations during the summer season in December. Many of the provincial officials who made this request were from the Eastern Cape (EC). Subsequently, the Minister wrote a letter to all traditional leaders and provincial officials, indicating that initiations would have to occur under strict Covid-19 regulations. In the same letter, the Minister indicated that the officials and leaders should ensure that those who apply to host initiations should undertake that they would take liability for implementing all of the regulations. None of the officials or leaders has provided such an undertaking. The Department received a letter from the EC provincial officials, but it was vague and as a result, it was not taken up to the NCCC.

Illegal initiation schools, particularly in the EC, have been flourishing during this suspension. In certain instances, children in both Limpopo and Mpumalanga have been kidnapped; however, the police have clamped down on many of them. Whilst the Department appreciated and acknowledged this cultural practice, it recognises that regulations have to be respected.

Referring to allegations that the Department was suppressing the initiations, he mentioned that since initiation schools are usually temporary and have cramped conditions, the Department is not sure that the adherence to mask wearing will be monitored. The opening of initiation schools will depend on whether strict measures are being adhered to.

It has been argued that many of the initiates want to enter university as men – which he found to be a compelling argument. The Department is also concerned by the recent spike in Coronavirus cases in the EC. Fortunately universities are only opening in March next year, which might provide enough time, depending on the change of the virus trajectory. There has been excellent communication and collaboration between the Department and the NHTL and the Department hoped that would continue.

Prince Zolani Mkiva, General-Secretary, CONTRALESA, requested that he be the one to respond to the introductory remarks made by the Deputy Minister.

The Chairperson clarified that the Deputy Minister’s introductory remarks formed part of the presentation and the protocol of the Committee. She told Prince Mkiva that he would have an opportunity to respond any issues after the presentation.

Briefing on the cultural practice of initiation

The DTA briefed the Committee on the cultural practice of initiation. Mr Mashwahle Diphofa, Director- General, Department of Traditional Affairs, presented the document on behalf of the Department. Initiation is practiced in all of the provinces. It is viewed as a rite of passage for boys to transition into manhood. In recent years there has been controversy surrounding the practice, such as the abduction of boys, the physical abuse of boys and the death of several boys. The Department has noted that provinces such as Limpopo and Mpumalanga have made significant strides in reducing the number of deaths during initiation. However, the EC remains a concern for the Department. Statistics show that in 2019, the EC recorded 45 deaths of initiates, with the national total sitting at 60.

Several interventions were initiated by the NHTL. For instance, consultations with the various Provinces took place between October and November 2019. In those discussions, the NHTL inquired on what challenges each province faced with regards to initiation. The NHTL also had discussions with the Ministers of the Department of Health (DoH) and COGTA and they discussed how cooperation between government and the traditional authorities could be strengthened. In addition, it was suggested that the EC should consider having initiation during the winter season, to prevent the dehydration of initiates. It was also recommended that qualified medical doctors, who have undergone initiation, should be brought to initiation schools to assist.

In 2018, Cabinet approved the submission of the Cultural Initiation Bill (CIB). It was then submitted to the COGTA Portfolio Committee, who then referred the Bill to the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) in December 2018. The Bill lapsed in 2019, as a result of the NCOP not attending to the Bill. It was reinstated by the NCOP in December 2019. The Bill will be referred to the National Assembly for consideration, once the second reading debate in the NCOP takes place.

All initiation gatherings have been suspended since the inception of the National State of Disaster. However, there have been requests from traditional leaders and the provincial officials to allow for initiations to recommence during the summer season, under Lockdown Level 1. Cabinet announced that both the provincial and traditional leaders should make preparations for initiations to take place under Covid-19 regulations.

Inkosi Sipho Mahlangu, Chairperson of the Mpumalanga NHTL, said that the practice of initiation is an emotive issue and there has been several challenges surrounding it – which the NHTL has been trying to attend to. Since 2013, 500 boys have been lost through this cultural practice. Over and above, there is quite a significant number of boys who have had their genitalia amputated. As a result, the organisation has encouraged the medical screening of initiates; however there has been a challenge, in that the surgeons cannot read the reports compiled from medical doctors. The NHTL has suggested that the reports should be used to indicate that the initiate is fit for initiation. In other provinces they have been able to succeed in ensuring that the medical fraternity is involved from the beginning. In the EC, the medical fraternity is not involved from the beginning; they only react once something has occurred to an initiate. Communicable diseases are also an issue in the country and that requires that the young boys are treated with care. All provinces should agree that medical doctors should be involved from the beginning.

After the death of several initiates in Mpumalanga, in 2013, the NHTL organised an Indaba, where a 12-point plan was drawn up – many of the recommendations from it have since been implemented. Recently, the NHTL has requested that the DTA set up a directorate that would deal specifically with the preparations of initiations. This directorate would also monitor the proceedings of all initiations. As initiations (usually) occur twice a year, the traditional authorities and provincial officials have to be adequately prepared. Compliance in initiation schools has to be better monitored, as many of the deaths are caused by non-compliance. Traditional leaders in Limpopo have taken responsibility and accountability for initiations in the Province. This trend should be spread to other Provinces. All traditional leaders should be aware of all initiation schools in their areas. If an illegal school is found, it should be disbanded immediately. The task of monitoring and evaluation cannot be solely left to the DoH, as it is reactionary. Instead, it should be placed in the hands of the DTA. There is a toll-free number to report irregularities, but it has not been effective. Individuals who have been delegated to deal with matters concerning initiation are doing so only on a part-time basis. This is a serious matter and it requires serious intervention. Inkosi Mahlangu encouraged Parliament to speed up the process to enact the CIB into law, as this will assist in strengthening compliance.

There has recently been a meeting between the Chairpersons Forum and CONTRALESA. Both parties agree that risk-adjusted strategies should be provided by provinces that want initiations to take place in December. The strategies should seek to ensure that all Covid-19 protocols are ready. The EC province has tried to prove its readiness. He requested that assistance be provided to the provincial officials and traditional authorities, to ensure that the province is ready. If a new directorate is set up, the NHTL would be able to monitor initiations and the risk-adjusted strategies it purports to implement.  

Inkosi Mwelo Nonkonyana, Chairperson: Eastern Cape CONTRALESA, thanked the Committee for inviting the organisation to the meeting. It was not privy to the presentation document but had formulated the required responses.

He said that there has been a broad misconception of initiation solely focusing on the circumcision of boys. This misconception has been promoted by national government. He felt the organisation has been unfairly discriminated against and that there was an agenda to undermine the custom. The organisation upholds the initiation of girls and boys and it also promotes the custom. He encouraged the Department to do the same. Government intervention is necessary, as there are individuals who have abused the practice. However, Government should be mindful that the custom belongs to traditional leadership and they should be given the power to monitor it accordingly. CONTRALESA has been engaging government since 2000, in an attempt to amend the Constitution, so that traditional authorities are given both the powers and functions to govern and administer these customs. Government initially agreed but has since not followed up. CONTRALESA expected that the Deputy Minister would engage with government to ensure that this happens.  

He took issue with the Deputy Minister indicating that the EC had provided a vague response in its letter. Both the NHTL and CONTRALESA engaged all stakeholders and agreed that there should be a case made to the government on why they should have initiation. They were and still are sensitive to the concerns of government, regarding Covid-19, hence they have committed from the onset to work with it on the matter. Government has only communicated with them on their decision to institute a Lockdown after they had implemented the decision, but the traditional authorities did not dispute this. The authorities had also not supported individuals having circumcisions in the winter season. In the letter, it was indicated that they would comply with the health regulations of the DoH. There was endorsement in the public for the initiation process to occur during the summer season. It was expected that Government would endorse their pleas to allow initiation to take place in December.

Provinces and national government should cooperate. In this case, the provincial government has been undermined by national government. Inkosi Nonkonyana asked why the issues mentioned by the Deputy Minister had not been raised to traditional authorities in the EC. He asked that the Deputy Minister apologise for his conduct during the Department’s negotiations with the traditional authorities in the province.

Currently there is health standard legislation in the EC and this legislation has been adopted in other provinces. The legislation requires that a medical certificate is required for initiation. In his address last year, the Minister of the DoH indicated that health officials who had not screened adequately should be exposed and punished.

Traditional leaders have been accountable and have worked with all levels of government. CONTRALESA had not been invited to the engagements held between the DG and other stakeholders, which focused on initiation taking place in December. This was a divide and rule tactic that had been utilised by the national Department.

There are over 20 illegal circumcision lodges running in the EC, with a new one emerging the day prior to the meeting. The emergence of these illegal schools would have been prevented if Government had acceded to the regulations proposed by the EC authorities. The authorities were confident that they would be able to maintain and enforce the regulations. Traditional authorities have requested that all stakeholders, including the government, work together on this matter, to ensure initiates are able to attend. If this is not done, the protests started by some disgruntled boys will continue. A positive commitment should be provided by the Government, so that by Monday forms for initiation can be issued to parents, to allow for their children to attend.

The Chairperson welcomed the Minister to the meeting.

Prince Mkiva mentioned that the suspension of the summer initiation season does not only affect the EC province. Other affected provinces include the Free State, Northern Cape, Western Cape and Gauteng. He affirmed that this decision did not belong to one province.

The centrality of the institution of traditional leadership is key to the sustenance of the custom and the Department should act as a support function.

The statement issued by the Department on Sunday plunged traditional leaders into a true crisis and placed them in a state of confusion. It was unexpected, as they had been involved in ongoing engagements with the Government. As a result of the statement, damage control has to be done. They feared that the repercussions in communities would be dire. He requested that the Department retract its statement.

Several children have attempted to commit suicide, based on the statement that the initiation process may only take place in June 2021. Cabinet has not made a decision on the matter; it has only been providing a recommendation on it. He felt it was unfair that Government has decided to write letters to the provinces. When national government makes announcements, it pronounces on the regulations. Provinces must then apply them. Prince Mkiva said that he is concerned that the custom is being targeted by the Government. The discussion with the Committee provides the space for the issue to be sorted out.

He requested that the Department indicate that the statement made was not a Cabinet decision. CONTRALESA spoke to the President and he said that he would receive a report on Wednesday, which was three days after the Department had made the statement. This indicated that the statement was made prematurely. Traditional authorities need to be taken on board, as they are the true custodians of the custom. If people did not agree with the ritual, there has to be engagement on it. Traditional authorities require support from the Government to ensure that there are no fatalities going forward.

Ms Nomalanga Tyamazashe, Commissioner: CRL Rights Commission, mentioned that this was an emotive and sensitive discussion. When discussing the matter, she said that one should consider the position he or she is speaking from. She spoke as a Commissioner who was appointed with a mandate to promote and protect diminished heritage and resuscitate it. Customary law has often been interpreted through the lens of Roman-Dutch law, which is a problem. There are several stakeholders who have an interest in this matter.

Crime should never be used as a barometer to assess the practice. If circumcision is performed by a qualified traditional surgeon, it is often successful.  At the moment, there are several individuals who purport to be traditional surgeons, when in fact they are not. The Commission recognised that there has been a high rate of alcohol and drug abuse, as well as botched circumcisions and deaths. These are life threatening situations. This requires government, through the DoH, to formulate a plan that would save lives. All parties involved in the process should be mindful that it is expensive for boys to have donors that replace their injured genitalia. Preventative methods are important. It is significant that several women have complained that too many children have died during the process. This practice is a practice for men and about men. It has never required women to be a part of the practice. The only time that this practice affects women is when they hear that their boys have been killed.

It is not true that the initiates do not drink water, they do. Saying this, Ms Tyamzashe said that she had to be mindful of her position as a women speaking on the matter; however, her right to speak on the matter should be recognised.

It has been alleged by traditional authorities that during the process where initiates have to build their huts, several women have placed ‘muthi’ (traditional medicine) in the huts and that has led to the death of the boys. This is an allegation they have submitted to the Commission and have asked that women should no longer be involved in the practice. 

All stakeholders should be concerned by the criminal aspects that have infiltrated the practice. Several medical doctors pledged last year to work with traditional authorities and this coalition should be strengthened. There is a stigma attached to boys who are attended to by medical doctors and they are seen as being less of a man. To assist in dispelling this myth, medical doctors should work in tandem with traditional surgeons. It is not true that traditional surgeons do not have the capacity to take care of the initiates because they do. The issue is how they should deal with the challenges that lead to the deaths of the boys. Another challenge is that some of the boys who are initiated are younger than 18.

There needs to be public engagement on the balance between the needs of initiates and the adherence to health regulations. She requested that all parties work together on this matter.

Dr Nokuzola Mndende, Commissioner: CRL Rights Commission, mentioned that all aspects should be debated during the meeting. She noted that the debate was only centred on the circumcision process, whereas there is more to that. There are three stages in the initiation process, these are: ukungena (which is the coming in), seclusion (where the circumcision occurs) and the final stage is the coming out for the man. According to the isiXhosa custom, once boys enter the ‘ukungena’ phase, there is no returning – which could pose a problem for the Government whilst it considers allowing initiation to occur. The suspension acts as punishment to the boys and may have psychological and social after effects because according to isiXhosa, seniority for men is not based on the date of birth, it is calculated on the date at which they attended their initiation. As a result, if a man attended his initiation as a 20-year-old in 2020, he would be seen as a junior to his peers. 

There is no guarantee that Covid-19 would have subsided next year in June, which meant that the initiation process would be indefinitely postponed.

She asked who was responsible for the injuries and deaths that occur in taverns and nightclubs. It would be difficult to control the boys if the initiation process does not occur, as many of them have already announced that they are ready to become men and their mothers have already prepared them meat that would provide them protein for the process. Now that they have entered that phase, it cannot be stopped. Traditional leaders have areas of jurisdiction and should be given that power.

Prof. David Mosoma, Chairperson: CRL Rights Commission, mentioned that in 2017, the Commission produced a report which documented the deaths occurring in initiation schools. In intervening in this matter, the Commission had to take into account its mandate to protect and promote the rights of religious and linguistic communities. It has consistently encouraged communities to assert their right to develop their diminished culture. Tradition and culture should be viewed as a means to an end and not as an end in itself. Initiation is a rite of passage for boys to become men. The aim of initiation is to create responsible citizens who are protectors of both society and the family. These individuals should also be able to take part in the family’s decision-making process.

In protecting this custom, all parties have to ensure that the custom achieves its end, which is that the initiate becomes a responsible citizen. If the means compromise the end – which is life in this context – then there is a problem. The Commission has recommended that communities should set up traditional leadership structures that would oversee initiation schools. These structures should also serve as support systems that will assist the police to root out all criminalities in the custom. Practice guidelines should also be developed, to specify what should and should not be done when establishing initiation schools. National legislation should require that age limits for initiates should be established for each province. The Children’s Act should be amended to allow for the varying age limits. The legislation should also require that informed consent should be given in writing by initiates before they enter into the schools. In addition, traditional councils and municipalities should register all initiations taking place. The Commission has also suggested that the Department of Social Development (DSD) should provide food parcels, as many of the initiates come from indigent families. Other recommendations include that traditional councils and municipalities designate areas where initiation can take place, that there be medical check-ups and immunisation of prospective initiates prior to initiation and that medical psychosocial support should be provided to all concerned – in the case of botched circumcisions and death.

If a school is found to be illegal, the individual responsible should be held accountable. Further research should be conducted on this area – particularly when it comes to penal transplants – with the aim of streamlining all initiates who have had this experience.

He agreed that there should be a focus on boys who come from single-headed families. Initiation school acts as a link to the family development structure and it is important that the boys do not lose their lives during this process and this is a principle that the Commissions hold. There is nothing wrong with the practice. The issue is the criminal aspects that have infiltrated it.

The Commission supports government’s consideration of the adherence to the health regulations.

Input by the Minister of COGTA

The Minister COGTA, Dr Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma indicated that government does not have an interest in seeing this custom end; however, it cannot sit back when there are deaths taking place. Whilst she agreed that there would be psychological and social effects for initiates not attending their initiation, there are also psychological effects that come with the mutilation of genitalia. Government has had an interest in protecting initiates prior to the onset of Covid-19. When it consulted on whether the winter initiation should occur, government had to consider whether the environment would be safe enough to prevent initiates from contracting Covid-19. Government raised these concerns with the relevant stakeholders and it was agreed that it would be postponed. For initiation to occur during the summer season, government has taken the decision that there needs to be proper registration of initiation schools and that it should be established who is attending – and the identity of traditional surgeons attending should also be established.

She previously wrote to the provinces and traditional leaders informing them that Cabinet had made a decision of how initiation schools should function during the summer season and that the listed requirements should be met. The sooner they are met, the sooner initiations can begin. As the Minister of COGTA, she cannot certify that all health protocols have been implemented, as that is the responsibility of the Minister of the DoH. COGTA, the South African Police Services (SAPS) and the DoH have been working together on this matter. In the previous week, the Minister of the DoH met with traditional authorities, medical professionals and the police. The day prior to the meeting, there was a meeting with all the stakeholders, which included the South African National Civic Organisation (SANCO), both religious and traditional leaders, the DoH, COGTA and SAPS. In that meeting, traditional leaders were requested to submit their plan before Tuesday, as the NCCC meets on that day. All stakeholders should sign-off on the plan. Currently, government is waiting for this plan and once it receives it, it will be taken to the NCCC and once it concludes its deliberations, the plan would be referred to Cabinet to consider. Traditional Leaders informed the Department that they require lead time, to conclude the process of the plan. Government then asked how much lead time they required.

Government is concerned by the apparent resurgence of Covid-19 in the Province, particularly in Port Elizabeth (PE). Due to the recent outbreak, some of the leaders have postponed initiations.

If boys are killed during the process, it is Government that will be blamed for their deaths. She asked for unity of purpose, to ensure that all stakeholders can work together and to ensure the safety of these young boys.

The Chairperson opened the floor for discussion.

Discussion

Mr K Ceza (EFF) said that he was surprised by the assertion by one of the previous speakers that women are not involved in the initiation process. There is participation of women in the custom and there is the acknowledgement of their efforts. It was clear that the public is misinformed on the rite of passage, as such; he requested that traditional leaders put more effort in explaining the process.

South Africa (SA) is influenced by Western propaganda and as a result, it acts as an extension of both the United States and the United Kingdom. Certain countries have sought to cash in on the erosion of SA culture. It is vital that both the traditional leadership and traditional councils are recognised.

The initiation process imparts many lessons to both the men and women involved, which inculcates the correct moral values in them. Men learn how to respect their mothers and the rest of the society.

He agreed that there is humiliation that comes with boys attending initiation schools late.

Citizens need to ask where the Department of Water and Sanitation was when children died of drought. It needs to be asked where the police were when children died at the initiation. He asked that COGTA and the other relevant Departments work together to prevent the issues. Monitoring systems should be established to prevent the criminal acts from occurring.

Mr Hoosen mentioned that it was not comfortable to be a part of a meeting where there was a significant dispute between all parties. Traditional leaders have a role to play in the preservation of the traditions in the country. The dispute between Government and traditional leaders should be solved as soon as possible, as this issue has an impact on the lives of people on the ground. He was pleased that the Minister had come to speak on the matter, as it provided much-needed clarity.

There are two issues that are conflated. One is the ongoing issues regarding the initiation process and the second is the adherence to Covid-19 regulations. To justify the continued prohibition on initiation, the Department should provide evidence that suggests that a certain number of children have been killed by Covid-19 during the process. He asked whether it was necessary to place such restrictions without evidence. He agreed that Government had a responsibility to protect lives.

He expressed hope that in the future there could be further engagements on the matter.

In defence of the Deputy Minister, Mr Hoosen mentioned that during the Lockdown, the Committee was assisted by the Deputy Minister in explaining the various regulations to certain industries. He has done great work and has been cooperative on matters.

Ms P Xaba-Ntshaba (ANC) mentioned that she was saddened by the deaths of boys during initiation. She asked that Government and traditional leaders work together to find solutions on the matter. She was satisfied that the traditional authorities had said that they intend to march for the reopening of initiation schools in December; however, she would have been pleased if they had decided to march to Union Buildings, to protest against the trade of alcohol, as it has had a devastating impact on the youth.  

There has to be a strategy that allows for initiation to occur during Covid-19. She agreed with Mr Ceza that the way culture is looked at in the country is through a Western lens. She took issue with the fact that traditional authorities had not focused on issues affecting other traditional practices, instead they chose to focus solely on initiation.

Mr G Mpumza (ANC) mentioned that the presentation had been insightful. The presentation indicated why the initiation process should occur and that if it did not, it would cause havoc. He was comforted by knowing that all that was required for initiations to re-commence is the submission of a plan from traditional authorities. There should be cooperation between the Department and the traditional leaders. Support and monitoring mechanisms should be provided to traditional councils. No traditional leader has the capability to act speedily against the setting up of illegal initiation schools without the assistance of the police.

There is also a spiritual element to the initiation process.

The plans requested by the Department should be forwarded as soon as possible, to ensure that Government is able to take a decision soon. A delay could allow for further commercialisation of the culture and the mushrooming of illegal initiation schools.

The Chairperson asked for an update on the initiative to integrate medical male circumcision into the initiation process. She asked if there had been any challenges in doing so.

She asked whether the compulsory pre-medical screening was in effect and if so, had it shown any benefits.

What methods have the traditional authorities implemented to ensure that there is more emphasis on the role of parents in the initiation process?  

Did either the Department or the other organisations present have a record on the arrests of illegal school owners?

Had there been any negotiations between CONTRALESA and national government to lift the prohibition in the EC?

Was there a plan to enforce the current draft regulation contemplated in slide 11 of the DTA presentation? The Minister affirmed Government’s position that initiation remains prohibited until provinces can present a plan for the safety of initiates. It is only in the EC where no plan has been submitted. As per lockdown level 1, initiations remain banned. Until the Province complies, there will be no movement on the matter.

Responses

Minister Dlamini-Zuma clarified that government was not taking over the responsibility of the practice from traditional leaders. In the letter sent, government mentioned that provinces must work with traditional leaders, as they understand the centrality of the leaders in the process.

Since initiation had not taken place during the lockdown, it was not possible to provide statistics on the number of children who died as a result of contracting Covid-19 during initiation. The reason the Department is adamant that it wants all health protocols in place, is to ensure that no boys contract Covid-19 and subsequently die from it. Government is concerned that when the boys return, they would pass it on to their families. Once the plan is submitted, the DoH will ensure that the plan meets the required protocols. Furthermore, once the Department receives the plan, it will be referred to the NCCC and regulations will be subsequently amended.

Mr Diphofa mentioned that the challenge regarding the monitoring of initiation is the absence of National legislation. Currently there are no national guidelines for initiation. Much of the decision-making process is left in the hands of the traditional authorities, which includes the circumcision of boys. The CIB makes provision that where circumcision occurs, it must be performed by a registered traditional surgeon or medical surgeon. If the traditional surgeon is not registered, then a medical surgeon can perform the circumcision in front of the traditional surgeon. This ensures that there is a balance. In a case that occurred last year, a parent took his/her child to get a medical pre-screening and was told by the practitioner that the boy had a pre-existing condition – and if he was taken to initiation, he would not make it back. The parent then brought another child to undergo a pre-screening, and this boy was cleared. The parent then used this medical certificate for the child with a pre-existing condition and he was admitted for initiation and subsequently died. This illustrates how parents have a significant role to play in the safety of their children. The same Bill touches on the role of parents and whether they should expose the condition of the child to the leader of the initiation school. Parents also have a duty to ensure that the school is registered.

There needs to be clear provisions on reporting on these matters in the regulations. The discussions with stakeholders are centred on how to create an enforcement plan, which would ensure that when an announcement is made on re-commencing initiation; both the parents and traditional leaders are ready to enforce the plan. This plan should also emphasise that parents have the duty to ensure that boys are taken to schools which have implemented the required Covid-19 health guidelines.

Deputy Minister Bapela mentioned that the proposal to establish a directorate in the DTA has long been proposed. He expressed hope that when the Bill is enacted, it would allow for the Department to set up such a directorate. This legislation has been on the table for the past three years. He was responsible for the resuscitation of this Bill. There were consultations with both CONTRALESA and the NHTL. Government recognises that it should not legislate culture and the expressions thereof; however, Chapter 2 of the Constitution requires that Government has to protect life, and as a result, it has to interfere in initiations.

Both Limpopo and Mpumalanga have embraced the assistance of medical practitioners. There were engagements on whether parents should be required to disclose if their child has an underlying illness. In both these provinces, this was embraced and as a result, the number of casualties has since decreased.

It was not advisable to take boys for male medical circumcision at a hospital, as this went against the cultural practice. The DTA has committed to assisting with placing medical experts in the schools, to ensure that children are assisted if there are botched circumcisions. This model was accepted by the traditional leaders.

The Department found it difficult to track illegal schools, as the individuals who run the schools, do so in either abandoned buildings, deep in the bush or high up the mountains. In addition, many of the boys who are kidnapped are taken from one province to another, which is difficult to administer. The Department wants to ensure that the law prescribes that those found to be running illegal schools should face 5-year sentences and if it is found that further crimes were committed during the initiation, more sanctions will be added.

He said that he personally has an interest in ensuring the authority of traditional leaders. That he has driven the CIB, was an expression of this interest. The Department has supported the traditional authorities on the issue of independent remunerations.

The statement made by the department has expressed a Cabinet decision, as it stood in the law. The statement did mention that talks and engagements are ongoing and that the public should wait until those are concluded. It was only in the past two weeks that the plans have been forthcoming from the various Provinces. Confusion might have been caused by certain remarks made in the subsequent debates however, the prohibition on initiation remains until such time. If there is still confusion on the statement, the Department would be willing to provide clarity. Both the Department and the traditional leaders have worked well together. The Department respects their role as custodians of the culture.

Inkosi Langa Mavuso, Acting Chairperson: NHTL, said that after consultations with SANCO, the Moral Regeneration Movement, the EC CONTRALESA and the six local houses of traditional leaders, a proposal was submitted to the EC Provincial Government. In that proposal, they all agreed that initiation should open for the summer season.

There were 20 illegal initiations that occurred during Lockdown Level 5 and all the schools were subsequently closed.

As per the EC legislation, the Provincial Initiation Coordinating Committee, the Premier, the MEC for the provincial COGTA, the DSD, the DoH and the Department of Sports had to meet to discuss the proposal. The proposal is anchored on the risk-adjusted strategy for the Province. This strategy speaks on health protocols. It was suggested in the proposal that there should be no sanitiser in the lodges, only soap. Furthermore, there should be no visitors at the lodges. Traditional authorities in both Alfred Nzo and Joe Gqabi did not want to have initiation during this time, as they have significant populations of SeSotho speaking people and people who belonged to the AmaHlubi tribe, who tend to take large numbers of boys to initiation.  

At a previous engagement with the Minister, the NHTL presented its strategy and it was advised accordingly. It then had a follow-up meeting with the Minister this past week and was provided with further recommendations. Once the recommendations are added into the plan, it will be presented to the Minister of the DoH on Monday. Hospital wards have been set-aside in case there is an outbreak of Covid-19 amongst the initiates. Traditional authorities have a partnership with the Urology Department in the Nelson Mandela Hospital.

The NHTL is concerned that traditional initiation is under-resourced. As a result, it had to form a partnership with two Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs), who have provided R34 million for the initiation process in the summer. Presently, the Department does not have a programme for initiation. It needs to find one so that it can increase its funding.

On the previous day, the NHTL had a discussion with both the Provincial Initiation Task Team and SAPS. It was stressed by SAPS that it has a duty to prevent crime and not to prevent the initiation process from occurring. In some areas, it has arrested illegal initiates, parents and one surgeon.

The NHTL is concerned that with the conclusion of exams, several children would now want to attend initiation. Traditional leaders require one week to mobilise the working committees at a traditional council level and to raise awareness to communities on the dangers posed by Covid-19.

The Chairperson said that this insight helped the Committee understand the work of the House on these issues.

Inkosi Nokonyana thanked the Committee and the CRL Rights Commission for their valuable input.

Traditional leaders in the EC are working well with medical doctors on initiations. He explained that only men who have been circumcised are allowed in the circumcision lodges. 

It is necessary that the parents play a role in the initiation process. Therefore, they must be involved from the onset. Even if there is a divorce or separation, the culture states that the parents must be together during this process.

It is important to work hand in hand with government. Traditional leaders are working with both the Provincial and Local Governments in the EC.

There are plans in place to ensure the recommencement of initiation. CONTRALESA will ensure that this plan is all inclusive and that it will be handed to the Minister by Monday, in the hope that the amended regulations will be announced on Wednesday.

He agreed that more can be done to deal with the abuse of other cultural practices.

CONTRALESA wants to continue the good relationship it has with the Deputy Minister.

The organisation was pleased with the input of the Commission because in the previous year it was taken aback by the Commission’s announcement that there should be a ban on initiation.

Through her remarks, the Minister demonstrated that the country has leaders who are principled and who listen. The Minister has from the beginning, listened to the various stakeholders. He understood the position of the Government and agreed with it.

The organisation has been concerned by the civil disobedience it has witnessed recently and it hoped that with the planned announcement on Wednesday and the subsequent gazetting of regulations, this tension will quell quickly. No boy should attend an illegal school.

The Chairperson mentioned that she was pleased that all stakeholders were present in the meeting. She pointed out that the Committee cannot be reactive on the issue and it would ensure that it continues to monitor the progress on the situation. She was pleased that there was general consensus on the issue. She pleaded with traditional authorities that in the future, they should refrain from isolating the Deputy Minister, as he formed part of a collective. A joint agreement has been made in the meeting and the Committee hopes that this will hold in the future.

The plan should be revised as advised by the Minister and it should then be handed to the Department. Once that has been done, the regulations will soon be gazetted. The concern of the Committee is that the lives of the boys should be preserved. It is also the Committee’s duty to ensure that their lives are preserved.

She encouraged traditional leaders to comply with the regulations, to ensure that the tradition remains.

A colloquium with all the relevant stakeholders should be held in the coming year. All those invited should look to provide solutions on how to deal with the various issues plaguing the initiation process. In addition, solutions should be found to deal with the criminal elements that currently exist.

She thanked all those present in the meeting for their input.

The meeting went on recess for 30 min.

Briefing on the audit outcomes of the Community Work Programme

The Committee was briefed by COGTA on the audit outcomes for the CWP, as presented by Ms Williamson. She mentioned that the programme has received a disclaimer audit opinion for the second year in a row. This is owed to: poor management, poor record keeping and poor governance and accountability – amongst other things. The Department committed to improving on the areas highlighted by the AG, to ensure that it achieves a clean audit opinion.

Key Highlights

• Progress has been made on redesigning the implementation model
• A NPO governance compliance matrix has been developed
• All performance indicators were reviewed and updated
• Received a disclaimer audit opinion
• Six implicated officials have been suspended

The report mainly focused on the root causes of issues identified in areas of the programme, these were:

• CWP finance
• Training and service level agreement,
• CWP wages
• CWP assets
• CWP pre-payments and project management fees

CWP Finance

The AG found that certain NPOs overspent on their budget allocation for the 2018/2019 financial year. In other instances, NPOs overspent on Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) without approval from the Department. To prevent this from occurring again, the Department developed a reporting template, where NPOs are expected to report back on a monthly basis on their expenditure and the finance analysis.

Training and service level agreement

The AG made several findings in this area of the programme. For instance, the AG found that training was not conducted for some NPOs. Furthermore, the AG found that there was no approval of a standard operating procedure for training of CWP. To remedy this, the Department first developed a training checklist for the 2019/2020 financial year. It then ensured that all nine NPOs received adequate training for the 2019/2020 financial year. A standard training operating procedure has been reviewed and submitted for approval.

CWP wages

The AG found that both the accuracy and occurrence of wage amounts could not be confirmed. To remedy this, the Department has entered into interim agreements with the South African Social Security Agency (SASSA) for the monthly verification and validation of participants. Finalisation of this interface is awaiting approval. Another issue flagged by the AG was the payment of deceased workers and workers on the Personnel and Salary System (PERSAL).

CWP assets

There were several findings made in this area. One of which was that there had not been asset verification reports prepared. To remedy this, the Department had planned to start the CWP asset verification process in April of this year; however, with the Lockdown in place, it was not able to travel across the country to begin the process. The appointment of a service-provider, who would conduct the verification process, was suspended, earlier this year.

CWP pre-payments and project management fees

The AG found that there were non-functional NPO payments. NPOs had not submitted a portfolio of evidence for the expenses incurred. To remedy these issues, the Department developed and implemented a record management system for the submission of information by NPOs. Furthermore, letters of non-compliance were written to NPOs, to ensure compliance and accountability.

The Chairperson opened the floor for discussion.

Discussion

Ms Xaba-Ntshaba thanked the Department for the presentation. One of the CWP programmes was run by an NPO that received R39 million. She asked who had owned this NPO. In addition, why had the CWP not insourced people in the communities, as the NPOs had exploited them. People in the communities should benefit most from these programmes. Government has committed to changing the lives of people; however, the money paid to the workers did not represent this ideal. Many of the people who work for these NPOs cannot afford to pay their children’s school fees. The Department should verify how much each NPO involved in the programmes receives and how much each pays its workers.

Mr Hoosen said that he was glad that the Committee could interact on this programme as it was a programme that it had been concerned about, especially because of the high levels of fraud and irregular expenditure involved. Over the past 7 years, R17 billion has been spent on these programmes. He asked if the Department would conduct a cost-benefit analysis on the programme, so that the SA public could be informed on whether they receive value for money.

He was pleased that there has been some recovery of the money, but he was not pleased with the percentage of money recovered – as he felt that all of the money should be recovered. He asked why it had taken so long for the Department to recover money from its own officials. When did the Department anticipate that these officials would pay the money back? There has not been a report on what the consequences have been for the individuals fingered for wrongdoing. A report must be provided on what action should be taken against the implicated individuals. Consequence management in the programme is poor and no one mentioned in the report has been put in jail.

He was satisfied that the Department is trying to take corrective measures to prevent the reoccurrence of the irregularities that have occurred, but this was not enough as it did not assist in recovering the lost money. He was disappointed that it was not the priority of the Department to recover the money and he feared that this would inculcate a culture of non-accountability. He asked what the DG would do to ensure that the implicated individuals would be held accountable for their actions. In addition, had there been an investigation of family members of officials in COGTA who were running the NPOs. How many of the officials had family members who were running the NPOs.

There was an overpayment of R39 million paid to NPOs. He asked how the department ended up paying R39 million more than expected. What action would be taken against those responsible?  

Forensic investigations were conducted and this cost the Department R16 million. Most of the public does not know about the CWP and its workers. It is wrong that the CRL Rights Commission is underfunded, whereas significant amounts of money have been siphoned off in this programme. The CWP programme should be shut down and not remodelled.

Mr Ceza said that the programme contains mass corruption. It has been submitted to the Committee that the tendering system seeks to benefit one particular person or NPO to the detriment of the participants. As long as this occurred, then there would be no other outcome than corruption. There are Government officials who dished out 21 irregular tenders. He asked what the Department would do to end the outsourcing of duties and functions – that the state should be able to do on its own – to NPOs that are corrupt and politically connected. This creates an attitude that a political party that has won elections is able to benefit the leaders of the party or those connected to it.

He asked whether the DG or the Department has consulted the participants on how the programme could be remodelled. The Department might have had good intentions when it first rolled out this programme; however, it has encountered several issues that need to be addressed.

He asked when the current contracts with the NPOs would lapse. In addition, had the Gauteng CWP been placed under administration?

An example has to be set for society and that would require that individuals who are found to be misusing and mismanaging the finances of the people be punished. There has to be a minimum sentence for individuals who have/are defrauding the state. NPOs should also be held to account. Any NPOs found to be doing wrong should be barred from doing work with the state.

Three NPOs had no previous experience. He asked whether the programme had set a precedent to involve NPOs without prior experience. What was the position of the Department on this issue?  

Ms D Direko (ANC) mentioned that she was concerned by the fact that the presentation had only touched on the challenges and not how the Department intended to address the challenges in the future. She asked whether the Department thought that the money spent had been value for money.

Certain parts of the presentation were inaccurate, for instance, the total amount of money spent on the programme was not tallied correctly. The Committee has requested that it gets detailed information of the total process, which includes the NPOs that have been contracted, the board of directors of the NPOs and the contracts entered into with each NPO. This information would have assisted Members with understanding how much each NPO has been contracted for and how much commission each NPO received. She asked who the NPOs that were affected by this process were. In addition, which NPOs were implicated for paying to deceased individuals and workers on the PERSAL? Did the Department have a screening process for NPOs that are appointed on the CWP programme?

Responses

Ms Nkosikazi Mhlauli, Deputy Chairperson: NHTL, applauded the Committee for attending to this matter. The House has been raising concerns that traditional leaders did not know the owners of the NPOs conducting work in their communities. There has been exploitation of workers, as they are paid low wages.

Traditional leaders were pleased that the President requested that they lead the agrarian revolution, with a main focus on both food production and job creation – particularly for the youth. She expressed her hope that the CWP would work hand in hand with them. Unfortunately, when they were about to start with the agrarian programmes, they heard that the Department had contracted with other NPOs. One of the NPOs had been paid money that even exceeded the budget of the NHTL. They then recommended that the workers should at least be insourced by the Department, so that they could receive a fixed salary. Many of these workers are women and are the sole breadwinners at home. These suggestions were not taken into consideration by the Department. This was disappointing, as the NHTL believed that the Department was supposed to look after the concerns of rural people, yet it had exploited them.

Chief Mlungisi Ntsanwisi asked if traditional leaders could be more involved in the CWP programme. They could assist the Department with identifying people who could be employed and the money to pay their wages could be distributed by the traditional leaders.

The Chairperson mentioned that this was a fair proposal.

It is on record that the Department intended to appoint a service provider that would verify assets across the country. She asked on the status of the project so far. What was the value of the assets on the ground? It was reported that the new accounting officer suspended this project. If the accounting officer had indeed cancelled the project, did the Department view it as a good decision?  

The report is silent on the Department’s five forensic investigations. The Chairperson asked that it explain the findings of the investigations and that the Department names the officials named in the report and the consequence management taken against them. She asked that the Department furnish the Committee with each report. How much has been spent on each report thus far and how much money has been lost.

Expenditure over the last seven years has been R15.5 billion, yet the presentation recorded R7.6 billion. She asked for clarity on this.

She asked that the Department provide a spreadsheet on the service providers appointed and the experiences that the Department had with them.

Dr Batandwa Siswana, Deputy Director-General: National Programme Community Work Programme, COGTA, mentioned that investigations found that there had been irregularities in the appointment of several NPOs. The Department has concluded the process of verifying the exact amounts of money that was either lost or stolen. The Department has engaged some of the NPOs. As investigations are still underway, the Department cannot divulge into further details. Once the investigations are complete, the Department will return to the Committee and provide full details on the NPOs and their mismanagement of EWP finances.

All contracts with the NPOs are set to conclude in March 2021. The Department will provide the results from the cost-benefit analysis. This will enable both the Department and the public to understand what has happened in the programme from start to date and the amount of money wasted during this period. The Department will be able to establish whether there has been a manipulation of the system.

The recovery of the monies that have been wasted has to be done by the Department. Currently there are discussions on the recovery of monies that have been irregularly spent. Once the investigations are concluded, the Department will return to the Committee and provide those details.  The Department has already started recovering money paid to deceased individuals and people on PERSAL, but it acknowledges that is not enough. Greater focus will be placed on the fees paid for project management, which is important as this is where the bulk of the budget goes to.

Six officials have been suspended by the Department and it recognises that it needs to take action against the owners of the NPOs.

Once investigations into pre-payments and undue elements were complete, the Department had a discussion with the relevant company that had benefited from undue payments. Presently, it is working on recovering the money from the company and this was at an advanced stage.

The Department will be able to provide all the details on the information requested by the Committee.

The Department admitted that CWP participants were not present in all wards. It has had discussions which are centred on ensuring that not only are the participants found across the country, but that they are also conducting their work properly. That would require that the participants are adequately trained. The Department’s focus is on skills development. Some reports have indicated that some participants are not utilised properly.

The Gauteng CWP has not been placed under administration. The service level and transfer agreements with the NPOs mention that if the Department identifies any element of maladministration or corruption, it has to immediately suspend the NPO. In Gauteng, the Department found that one of the NPOs had been involved in maladministration and corruption. This matter is still under investigation.

The Department agrees that NPOs should be held accountable for defrauding the state. Three NPOs have been suspending. During its investigations, the investigations have looked at how the companies infiltrated the system.

The appointment of NPOs has not allowed for ordinary people to have an impact in the programmes. That is part of the reason why the Department has decided to review the current system. It believes that the system needs to be automated, as the manipulation of the system, is due to the system being manual. Going forward, the Department needs to know who the people are involved in the programmes and this must be monitored.

According to the Minister of Public Works and Infastructure, each participant should earn R97.50 a day and in a month this amounts to R708. The payment of participants has been included in the discussions for remodelling the programme. The intention is to ensure that when they join they are trained and once they have received the training, they should indicate which specialised programme that would prefer to join.

Three NPOs were given the responsibility to manage the agrarian programme. There have been discussions with the DTA on how to finalise the agrarian programme and how it should be structured, which includes its funding.

The Department preferred not to expose the names of implicated officials, as it might compromise on the finalisation of the disciplinary hearings. He requested that the Department only make the pronouncements once the proceedings have been completed.

Ms Williamson mentioned that the CWP is a community-driven government programme, which is aimed at creating predictable work for the people employed. It allows for the participants to be paid through government. It is supposed to make the participants independent, as they receive training for skills they can utilise in future roles. However, this has not happened. Government has not employed the individuals directly.

The audit outcomes are related to, systems, internal controls, governance and Human Resources (HR). The Department has started a process to look at the immediate interventions around each of them. After years of non-implementation, the Department has begun implementing consequence management against implicated officials.

It was true that R17 billion has been paid by government towards the programme, since 2013. These amounts are divided into four critical areas of the CWP programme:

• Participants,
• Implementing agents (to run the programmes),
• Tools and materials and
• Training.

Most of the money lost needs to be recovered from the project management fees and the tools and materials. This year, prior to the payment of both IA’s and NPOs – in tranches – the Department has to ensure that the whatever is due is based on the records completed for the 2018-19 and 2019-20 financial years; and that this money is recouped. The Department had to evaluate the service level agreement and the turnaround time, in terms of compliance. Officials have managed to review the service level checklist and are now holding NPOs to account.

Officials have looked at internal controls and currently, they are amalgamating areas of finance, as they were previously deemed to be separate. An individual was appointed to look at the internal controls and a mechanism was created to track and trace how they are doing against the internal controls. Internal audit has been auditing quarterly and has advised on the areas of weakness.  

The Department has had to monitor that all interventions are being undertaken. It needs to ensure that litigation is instituted against implicated officials and NPOs. Law enforcement agencies, such as the Hawks and the Special Investigating Unit (SIU) would be brought in to assist in holding corrupt officials and NPOs to account.  

Whilst the Department did not believe that the programme had fully achieved what it intended to do, it recognised that the programme has provided participants with an opportunity to earn a living. Through the programme, participants have been upskilled, albeit to a certain extent.

Referring to the question on assets, she said that in the previous meeting, the Department had mentioned that they would bring in another service provider. When she arrived in the Department she was presented with a document that she had to approve and sign-off that would allow for the appointment of a service provider to conduct the asset verification process. The contract was set for three years and it was valued at over R30 million, beginning in 2019. The contract was only signed towards the end of the year and the service provider was expected to begin work immediately; however, once the Department was informed that it would have to pay R10 million – the full year’s amount – it cancelled the contract. A judgement was handed down that all of the contracts would come to an end in March 2021. This would have meant that the service provider would have been contracted when the Department had begun to remodel the CWP programme. Furthermore, the Department felt that the amount of R30 million was not justified; thus, it found other ways to manage assets in a cost-effective manner. For instance, it has requested NPOs to hand their asset registers to it. The officials believe that the plans they have made have ensured that they will meet their obligations for asset management.

Three external service providers conducted the investigations for the Department. The other two reports were conducted by the AG. The AG was paid a fee for its services, but this did not amount to the money spent on the external investigators.

The Department was willing to furnish the Committee with the reports once they were finalised. It is at a stage where it needs to ensure that each case holds.

The expenditure on all the investigations amounted to R16 million. Without the recommendations from the investigations, the Department would not be able to clean up the programme. Each report has shed light on the areas that the Department needs to reinforce, how to recover the monies and how to remodel the entire program. The information on this would be provided by the Department.

Discussion

Ms Direko mentioned that she had a point of order. She requested that the Department refrain from referring to Members by their first names. All Members, when being spoken to, should be referred to as ‘Honourable’.

Mr Hoosen mentioned that he was pleased that the Department was committed to transparency. The Committee is aware of the names of several Municipal Managers who have been suspended and this has not affected the investigations. The argument that the Department did not want to compromise the investigations by revealing their names was not sensible. He asked that the officials explain their reasoning on this matter.

He asked why the Hawks and the SIU had not been involved already. How many criminal cases had the Department opened under the current DG’s tenure? He did not understand why there has been a delay in taking action against implicated officials.

The Chairperson asked if they could provide a breakdown on the irregular expenditure and what consequence management has been taken against the officials responsible. The Department is aware that the Committee would ask about the names of the implicated officials. She asked for a breakdown of each report. The Department should look to implementing the reports.

Ms H Mkhaliphi (EFF) said that there should be a list provided on the officials and the NPOs that are implicated.

Responses

Ms Williamson mentioned that the Department would expose the names of the individuals and would do so only after issuing charges.

Presently, the Department is quantifying the fruitless, irregular and wasteful expenditure recorded. It is able to do so because of the reports it has received to date. The amounts will be cited as part of the disciplinary proceedings. All implicated NPOs are known to the Department; however, it would prefer to follow due process before exposing their names.

She noted Ms Direko’s point and would ensure that in future she would not repeat the same mistake.

The Chairperson mentioned that some questions had not been answered by the Department, particularly the question on asset management.

Ms Williamson informed the Committee that she had in fact answered this question. She then repeated her previous answer to the Members.

When she was first appointed as the DG, she was informed that the value of the assets was R500 million, but she later found that claim not to be true. As a result, the Department is trying to verify the veracity of those claims. 

The Chairperson asked what the actual value was.

She asked if the contract that the DG had not signed-off was a new contract or if it was the previous contract signed-off by the then Acting DG of the Department.

Had the Department consulted with Treasury on the asset management matter and if it had, what was its response.

Ms Williamson mentioned that the contract was a new one. She had refused to sign the appointment letter because she did not believe it was value for money. Treasury was consulted and its response was that it could not review the value of the contract.

The Chairperson asked whether it was a good decision

Ms Williamson responded by saying that it was a good decision.

The Chairperson asked that they share the contract that had been signed-off by the then Acting DG and the one that was not signed-off by the current DG.

The Committee was concerned by the asset management issue and would schedule another meeting for the following week, to follow up on the matter. Treasury would be invited to the meeting as well.

It is the priority of the Committee to ensure that the maladministration and malfeasance in the programme is stopped by the time its term ends. She asked that the Department furnish the Committee with all the information by Monday.

The meeting was adjourned.