ICASA Councillor Interviews Day 1

Meeting report

Note: Refer to presentation slides and audio for each candidate’s responses to questions.

Interview 1: Dr Charles Lewis
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced himself, provided some information on his work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms N Kubheka (ANC) said that South Africa was passionate about the Fourth Industrial Revolution and said she was not sure if South Africa was behind on this. She asked the candidate in his view what the key pillars are that need to be in place for South Africa to exploit the opportunities of the 4IR.

Ms P Faku (ANC) thanked the candidate for his presentation and said that his vast experience in the sector was noted. She asked if the candidate could demonstrate his own understanding of how ICT in South Africa is linked to its political economy which is central to the transformation of the economy.

Ms Z Majozi (IFP) thanked the candidate for his very informative presentation. She asked what the candidate's understanding was of the legislative prescripts governing ICT particularly in the new era of convergence. She noted the overlapping roles of the entities including ICASA within the Ministry and asked  what expertise the candidate would provide on this if he were chosen.

Mr L Molala (ANC) said he wanted to go back to the question asked by Ms Majozi as the candidate had avoided the question and added that the candidate should feel free to express his views during the interview. The candidate spoke about the industry as being partly privatised, liberalised and regulated by ICASA and asked about the burning issue between the three and how it should be balanced particularly in how financially sufficient the structure is.

Mr Molala asked the candidate for his personal views on the Competition Commission report versus what ICASA is meant to be regulating.

Dr M Ndlozi (EFF) said he thought there was an incorrect philosophical approach to reducing the cost to communicate in the South African market. The underlying assumption was that competition would drive prices down. He said that in the US market prices were exorbitantly high despite the fact that there was a significant amount of competition. In South Africa there is no party which dominates the ICT industry as it does not have more than four players that are powerful and 75% of its ICT sector is owned by only two players. He asked if the assumption about competition in the issuing of spectrum was not an incorrect approach. If the candidate agreed, how does one make the assumption that there will be no future competition. He asked how the candidate would drive prices down in this case.

Dr Ndlozi remarked that many have said we should forget about digital migration in the broadcasting sector. He asked what the candidate's view is on the direction in broadcasting since Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT). He asked the candidate what policy intervention the broadcasting sector should take which no longer takes DTT into consideration.

Dr Ndlozi said the ICT industry was dominated by old white men and pointed out that the candidate was an old white man. While he acknowledged the candidate's credentials for having been involved in progressive politics, he wanted to know why the Committee should recommend another old white man to go and regulate other old white men in the sector.

Ms P Van Damme (DA) said that she did not have a question, but merely wanted to say that she had listened to Dr Lewis and thinks that he has the knowledge and expertise which is required in the industry. She wanted to see candidates with grit who could defend themselves and would not be bamboozled into making certain decisions. Ms Van Damme said she saw and heard what she needed to.

Mr B Maneli (ANC) asked the candidate about a point made by Dr Ndlozi about privatisation and regulation and wanted to confirm if he understood his answer correctly. He asked the candidate for his view on whether South Africa has done enough studies to determine sector size and if the sector would be amenable to increasing the number of participants based on the process of privatisation and those which have collapsed in the process and have to depend on those who have succeeded. Mr Maneli commented that this was not transformation. He asked what the candidate thought about legislation to ensure that the sector succeeds

Interview 2: Mr Lebogang Bopalamo
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced himself, provided some information on his work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Kubheka commented that the candidate was “too glued on the side of technology”. She asked about the Data Services Market Inquiry, what the biggest differences in approach were between ICASA and the Competition Commission on data price regulation. She asked how data pricing regulation could be reconciled.

Ms Faku thanked the candidate for an informative presentation and asked what his understanding was of the gazetted policy on high demand spectrum recently released by the Minister. She asked what the candidate's understanding was of the regulatory objectives in the ICASA Information Memorandum. In his presentation he mentioned markets and she asked if he was knowledgeable on the structure of the mobile phone market and the effectiveness of small players. She asked how the candidate would give small players a chance.

Ms Majozi thanked the candidate for his presentation and asked if he was knowledgeable on the legislative prescripts governing the ICT sector, particularly in the new era of convergence. She asked what role the candidate would play within ICASA if he were appointed. She asked if a company from abroad operating in South Africa has failed to pay tax how the candidate would manage this and ensure such companies are regulated and bring on board small players.

Mr Molala asked the candidate to give an example of a South African scenario of managed liberalisation of the market where there are two dominant players and the public are demanding a data price reduction. He asked if the candidate were appointed, how the candidate would avoid being captured.

Mr Molala said there were two dominant players in the country and asked if the candidate thought South Africa’s regulator had failed to liberalise the market since telecoms has gone down and Cell C has collapsed.

Dr Ndlozi asked the candidate about the poetry book, A Rising Tide, he had written and if the candidate was a poet. He said there was a person with a similar name to the candidate's who was involved in theft and he found a Gauteng High Court 6 March 2014 judgement which the person appealed and failed. He asked if this was the candidate.

Dr Ndlozi referred to the candidate saying that Facebook in South Africa should be taxed and asked how the candidate would do this. He asked what work the candidate did at Multi Choice.

Dr Ndlozi asked the candidate who Mlamli Booi was and why he had nominated the candidate.

Dr Ndlozi said he was sceptical about the circulation of people who have been in the ICT industry and have done nothing to change it structurally. Everything that has happened in the sector was to reinforce the power of MultiChoice and other big players. He pointed out that the candidate never spoke of breaking this power and comes from Sentech which is a huge impediment to the SABC’s capacity for digital broadcasting. He asked if the candidate was sent to stop this and reinforce the dominant powers in the industry.

Ms Van Damme asked how the candidate envisaged ICASA’s role going into the digital revolution and if the candidate viewed ICASA as an organisation that was there to enable or restrict. She wanted to see creativity and asked about the candidate being a partner in a company that did work in the evaluation of ICT policy and technology trends. She asked what the candidate knew about the ICASA Act and what it said about individuals who have financial interests in the sector.

Mr Maneli asked the candidate about market structure noting that currently there was infrastructure sharing and this has not changed the market given the collapse of those who have been brought into the market. He asked what the candidate's take was on this and whether it was a regulatory challenge and what should be done about it.

Interview 3: Mr Chose Choeu
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced himself, provided some information on his work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Kubheka welcomed the candidate’s presentation and asked about self-regulation. She asked how this would work and why.

Ms Faku asked for the candidate's understanding of how the South African ICT sector is linked to its economy and is central to transformation in the country. She asked how the candidate would ensure that what was given in terms of funding would remain sustainable if he were appointed.

Ms Majozi thanked the candidate for his presentation. She mentioned the announcement by the President to merge regulatory institutions and asked what the candidate's understanding was of spectrum and its impact in ICASA delivering on policy objectives.

Ms Majozi asked how the candidate would bring on board small players in the network area and how he would advise the Minister.

Mr Molala asked about the convergence regulations as the model to follow would have to be in line with the Chapter 9 institution. He asked how the candidate would decide which model he preferred if he were to make a recommendation on which model would work best in the South African context.

Mr Molala asked about the candidate’s views on the Competition Commission’s investigation versus ICASA's investigation.

Ms Van Damme said that the candidate spoke against self-regulation of the media and asked if he was in support of a Media Appeals Tribunal and wanted to know what he proposed instead. She asked how he saw this mechanism working. She referred to his time as Eskom’s divisional head for corporate affairs in 2011 and his testimony at the Zondo Commission where he referred the Eskom communications and marketing manager, Peter Pretorius, to meet with the Gupta-owned The New Age (TNA) and the candidate had expressed the desire that TNA receive support. She asked if the candidate was aware at the time that TNA was owned by the Guptas and what the Gupta family was doing in South Africa.

Dr Ndlozi said that R59 million was spent on TNA in 2017 under the leadership of the candidate and said that for the deal to be concluded an order was received from Minister Malusi Gigaba. The candidate had persuaded Mr Pretorius to sign the deal with TNA as he said it was an order from Mr Gigaba. He asked the candidate to confirm if this information was true. The TNA deal did not make business sense as investing that much money in a paper that no one was reading did not make any sense and asked the candidate to respond to this. He asked if the candidate knew the regulations which inhibited the SABC on who it applies as well as DTT. He asked about high demand spectrum and the proposal to reduce the cost to communicate. He asked what work the candidate did at Parliament and the Information Technology Association of South Africa. He asked if the candidate was a member of the ANC.

Mr Maneli asked about convergence and asked the candidate to explain the impact of privatisation, liberalisation and regulation in this era of convergence. He asked the candidate to contextualise this in the case of South Africa.

Interview 4: Ms Amanda Cuba
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced herself, provided some information on her work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Kubheka said that one of the key objectives of the policy directive on high demand spectrum is to promote and facilitate entry by new players into the market. She asked if the candidate believed that the new ICASA Information Memorandum facilitated entry by new players and if not, why.

Ms Faku thanked the candidate for her presentation and said that there was a critical view of the regulator being too weak and lacking capacity and asked for the candidate’s view on this. She asked what changes the candidate would make if she were given the opportunity to be part of the ICASA council.

Ms Faku asked what the difference was between FPB and ICASA.

Ms Majozi asked how the candidate thought ICASA could be best supported to monitor and implement the recommendations made by the Competition Commission. If the candidate were appointed to the ICASA council, what expertise would she bring on board?

Ms Van Damme asked what the candidate thought of the Broadcasting Amendment Bill and what the key amendments were. She asked how the candidate felt about the regulations pertaining to the SABC.

Mr Molala said the candidate raised an important point in her presentation about OTT services that are coming to South Africa and being unregulated. He asked the candidate what interventions she would propose for these services. He asked how soon the candidate would release the spectrum if she were appointed and what process she would follow prior to releasing it.

Mr Molala said the candidate raised a good point about new users coming into the system and proving unsustainable. She asked what the candidate proposed to ensure these new players would be able to sustain themselves.

Mr Maneli asked what the candidate's own views were about new players in the market and whether they should be limited or expanded.

Interview 5: Ms Yolisa Kedama
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced herself, provided some information on her work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Kubheka thanked the candidate for her presentation and asked about the Information Memorandum and the policy directive. One of the policy directive's objectives was to facilitate the entry of new players into the market and asked if the candidate believed this was the case. If not, why and if yes, how.

Ms Faku noted the candidate raised the high level of litigation in her presentation and asked the candidate to explain this. She asked what ICASA could do better about litigation. She said the candidate spoke about a lack of transformation and asked the candidate to point out what this was. What was the candidate’s view on the regulator being too weak?

Ms Faku asked what the candidate’s responsibilities were when she worked at ICASA.

Ms Van Damme asked the candidate what the one thing is that she would like to achieve at ICASA. She asked if the candidate heard about ICASA possibly merging with other entities and if she knew which entities these were. She asked what the candidate thought of this merger and if it would require some innovative thinking.

Ms Majozi asked how the candidate thought ICASA should discharge its role to ensure that fair practice prevails over unfair competition in the market.

Mr Molala said that the candidate’s broad assessment of ICASA was that it had litigation challenges and lacked funding and it felt like the candidate was applying to be a part of a crisis. He asked what innovations the candidate proposed that could strengthen the institution. He asked about the candidate’s views on convergence, how universal access could be made possible and how OTT services should be regulated.

Dr Ndlozi asked the candidate if ICASA would still be needed if all broadcasting was done online. If yes, how would ICASA regulate.

Mr Maneli asked what the candidate’s view was on the issues in the ICT sector. The national roaming arrangement was left to self-regulation. He asked if this was working and if not, what interventions would be necessary.

Interview 6: Mr Junior Khumalo
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced himself, provided some information on his work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Kubheka asked the candidate about converged versus single sector regulation. She asked if the candidate believed if what ICASA proposed about convergence would be viable.

Ms Faku asked the candidate about his views on the merger and its legal implications. She wanted to know more on the funding model which the candidate would propose. There was much criticism about the regulator in terms of capacity and asked if the candidate agreed with this and if so, why.

Ms Van Damme asked the candidate what sets his soul on fire. She asked what the candidate would do differently if he were appointed to ICASA.

Ms Majozi asked what the candidate's understanding was of the recent Data Services Market Inquiry in providing South Africans with fair and reasonable data costs. How could ICASA strengthen its role in ensuring that fair practice prevails over unfair competition in the market?

Dr Ndlozi asked the candidate for clarity on his previous work experience in the Presidency and he asked who the President and Minister were at the time. He asked the candidate to name one of his greatest achievements working at ICASA. He asked if the candidate ever challenged any unfair reactionary policies that have been in place for a long time.

Mr Molala said there was limited research activity within ICASA and asked the candidate to confirm this and the protracted litigation by the industry. He asked if the candidate was in favour of the convergence of similar entities and what his views were on this.

Mr Maneli asked the candidate to expand on the points he raised about the national regulatory framework and national roaming arrangement.

Interview 7: Mr Phosa Mashangoane
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced himself, provided some information on his work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Kubheka thanked the candidate for his informative presentation. She asked the candidate about the Data Services Market Inquiry and asked about the biggest differences in approach between ICASA and the Competition Commission on data price regulation and asked how they could be reconciled. She asked if the candidate was aware of the convergence of ICASA with other entities and if this would work and how. She asked if the candidate was confident that ICASA could manage its own finances.

Ms Faku said she was impressed with the candidate’s presentation as he raised challenges but also presented solutions for them. There were views that the regulator was weak and lacked capacity and asked what the candidate's view was on this. She asked the candidate's view on the overlapping roles of the different entities. She asked for the candidate’s understanding of the gazetted policy on high demand spectrum released by the Minister.

Dr Ndlozi asked the candidate if he was a Bantu administrator as he had been a board member of the Northern Transvaal administration and asked about the work he had done there. He asked if the candidate was employed by the apartheid government and how long he worked for them. He asked what he made of his peers, people of high conscience and calling who were in the struggle, while the candidate was developing sports in Limpopo. He asked why he should place the candidate on the ICASA council.

Mr Molala asked the candidate about the contradiction of having a private company that is competitive and can easily be regulated when its main objective is to make a profit. Private companies would ultimately conglomerate into a monopoly and asked if there should be individual regulators for companies.

Mr Molala asked if the candidate was recommending that the Constitution be amended about the Chapter 9 institutions. He asked for the candidate's view on whether telecoms or broadcasting was dominant at  ICASA currently and, if this is the case, how this could be remedied. He asked the candidate to clarify what he meant by public investor confidence.

Ms Majozi asked the candidate what the difference was between ICASA and FPB and what he thought of the possible merger between the two.

Interview 8: Mr Zolani Matthews
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced himself, provided some information on his work experience and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Kubheka asked the candidate what the biggest difference was in approach between ICASA and the competition commission on data pricing regulation and how this could be reconciled. She referred to the Fourth Industrial Revolution and said it seemed as if South Africa was lagging behind other countries. She asked the candidate to advise how the country could speed up its response to the 4IR.

Ms Faku asked the candidate how he would achieve transformation if he became a councillor. The candidate was currently a SA Post Office board member and asked what his key achievements were on that board.

Ms Majozi asked the candidate what expertise he would bring in ensuring there is no duplication and overlapping of roles between ICASA and other entities.

Dr Ndlozi asked if the candidate was Minister Naledi Pandor’s brother.

Mr Molala asked if the candidate had considered the impact of convergence in South Africa. He asked what should come first, convergence or amendment of laws. He asked for the candidate's view on auctioning high demand spectrum vis a vis his conception of universal access and new role players.

Mr Maneli asked the candidate if new role players could be brought into the market and how their collapse could be prevented.

Interview 9: Ms Zamokuhle Khanyile
The Chairperson welcomed the candidate, explained the interview process and introduced Committee members. The candidate introduced herself and made a presentation to the Committee.

Ms Faku asked the candidate for the objectives of the National Integrated ICT White Paper. She said there are three phases of legislation and asked the candidate what phases one and three were.

Ms Majozi said she was sceptical of going through with the questions and asked the candidate what the role of the Complaints and Compliance Committee (CCC) was. She asked about the candidate's understanding of spectrum regulation and its impact for ICASA in delivering on policy objectives.

Mr Molala asked the candidate what her understanding was of section 192 of the Constitution as it relates to ICASA and its independence.

Dr Ndlozi asked if the candidate had any experience in broadcasting, ICT and postal services and asked why the candidate should be placed in the highest regulator body when she has never had an interest in it. Dr Ndlozi asked about the candidate’s role at the National Heritage Council.

Mr Maneli asked if the candidate was aware that if she were appointed as an ICASA councillor, it would be on a full-time basis. What would this mean for her as she currently had a full-time position at Correctional Services?

The Chairperson asked the candidate if she had any questions.

Meeting adjourned.