Committee Programme 2020 Term 1

Meeting report

Consideration of the draft Committee Programme for the first term of 2020

The Chairperson thanked everyone for being in attendance. This might be the Committee’s last meeting for 2019. He welcomed everyone taking notes - the Committee was transparent and gave permission to be recorded and quoted.

The Committee Secretary gave apologies for three Committee Members who could not make the meeting namely Ms N Nolutshungu (EFF), who was hospitalised, and Mr B Yabo (ANC), who has moved to the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education.

The Chairperson confirmed the agenda for the day included the consideration of the Committee’s draft programme for the first term of 2020. The Committee would then consider and adopt its minutes. He asked if all Members had a hard or electronic copy of the programme. The Committee will be busy with the amendment of Bills and currently there are five pieces of legislation that need to be addressed. This includes the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill, currently out for public comment, the Air Traffic and Navigation Services Company Amendment Bill, Airports Company Amendment Bill, National Land Transport Amendment Bill and the Road Accident Benefit Scheme Bill.

The Committee has meetings for the first term between 28 January 2020 and 18 March 2020.

Mr L Mangcu (ANC) said that during a point this year, the Committee considered a programme – what was the result of that session? Who decided on this? Regarding legislation, the Committee was reacting to matters already prescribed – he was unsure of the impact the Committee aims to have on an annual or five year basis. The Committee has not been reflecting on other matters outside of the Bills. It seems the Committee was boxed into only dealing with what the Committee is handed, and not anything else.

Ms M Ramadwa (ANC) noted the public hearings on the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill scheduled in March 2020 – she asked which people are going to attend this hearing. She understands that public hearings must deal with all provinces, to ensure enough people were consulted.

A Member asked about the meeting on Friday, 13 March 2020, as Friday meetings are never in full attendance. He suggested the meeting be moved to another day.

Mr M Chabangu (EFF) noted that on 28 and 29 January 2020, there will be a strategic planning session for the Portfolio Committee on Transport but these dates were also periodically set aside for Members’ training.  The Committee should be informed in time about the changes to prepare. With regard to the draft programme for the Committee, he asked when and how there will be discussion that affects the community at large.

Mr C Hungsinger (DA) queried the Committee’s involvement and influence in the particularities around strategic planning, budgeting and Annual Performance Plans.  When the Committee returns next year, it will be at the stage where financial aspects, such as budgets, would have to be dealt with. However this is not reflected on the programme. When the Committee returns next year, it seems it will be occupied with legislation which should have been completed in the Fifth Parliament. When will the Committee concern itself with service delivery of the entities which find expression in the strategic plans, KPIs, KPAs and annual performance plans which the Committee constantly sees reflected as close to 100%? People’s experiences have been different to this. If the Committee starts in February/March, the Committee would only have its first opportunity to influence the 2020 cycle and then there is rubberstamping of the plans and reports. An item had disappeared from the programme – this pertains to the Public Protector’s report on the panel van conversion on taxis. This was on the agenda but removed for procedural elements and is expected to return. From the programme, last week on 19 November 2019, a decision was made around the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill, as it was confirmed that is was needed. Public participation would follow and was set for 3 and 4 March 2020. Final deliberations on the Bill were set for 10 -18 March 2020 and there is already reference to a Committee Report. This is noted even before the Committee discusses the desirability of this legislation including the National Land Transport Amendment Bill and Road Accident Fund Amendment Bill. Why has a conclusive stage already been planned without these intermediate stages?

Mr T Mabhena (DA) was concerned that according to the proposed programme for the first term, the Committee would not be doing any oversight over any entity. What happens in Parliament, boardrooms and Committee meetings should have a positive impact on the ground and greater communities. Two to three oversight meetings should be added to the programme for oversight of entities outside of Parliament’s oversight period. He gave an example to show the importance of oversight - the bus Rapid Transit system (BRT) has been stopped after approximately R2 million was spent on consultants and part of construction. The public hearing says ‘Parliament’ which means it will only take place in the Western Cape while everyone else will be expected to make electronic or postal submissions. This brings about the question of access, as those who will be affected negatively by the Civil Aviation Bill are those living in rural eastern areas plagued by air pollution. He suggested having public hearings in each province, instead of confining it to the Western Cape.

The Chairperson noted the strategic planning session is set for 5 and 6 December 2019. These meetings might not be fruitful as people will be leaving around this time - he suggested that if the Committee felt the sessions should go on as scheduled it can but otherwise it can be postponed.

The Committee Secretary advised the Committees to wait for the outcome of Parliament’s strategic planning session, which will be available in the next week. The Department had its strategy planning session for the next five years on 13 and 14 November 2019. The supporting staff are currently trying to get a hold of the Department’s KPA. She still has to speak to the PLO about this so that the Committee can have that information before the Committee’s strategy planning session. This is because Parliament’s and Department’s plan impacts the Committee’s strategy plan. She suggested the Committee continue with the strategy meeting in January. She could not say who will attend the public hearing as she did not know who will comment on the Bill. Once the programme starts, the Committee can determine the need to have provisional hearings. Thus it depends on the Committee’s decision, taking the submissions into consideration. The Committee will know by 15 January 2020 who made submissions and who indicated they want to make oral submissions on the Bill.

The Chairperson said that Friday 13 March 2020 was the only Friday meeting scheduled. Some instances require more than one Committee meeting per week as an attempt to finish the work of the Fifth Parliament. He reassured Members and made them aware that Friday will be the only time the Committee will have an extended meeting, 13 hours. On the point of doing oversight, he wants to look into the possibility of doing oversight on a broader spectrum. Parliament will not have a hand in any of the Committee’s Bills until February 2020. The Committee will have space hereafter to do oversight. He asked Mr Hunsinger to reiterate his question about the briefing on the Bill.

Mr Hunsinger said that he does not want to presume that Members will get to a Committee Report before the Committee assesses the desires of the Bill.  The Committee should be given additional information about Bills before a draft report on a Bill can be made. He wants the decision making stages included in the draft programme.

The Committee Secretary responded by saying that it would have been great if she went  through the report with the Members before this discussion as it would have shed a lot more light on the discussion. There are five Bills - the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill is new and there is a structure that needs to be followed although Members have control over its content. A Bill such as the Airports Company Amendment Bill is a technical Bill which would not take a lot of time as it derived from the Fifth Parliament.  There needs to be a briefing on these Bills which will take Members through each decision and amendment made on the Bill. The Department, Parliament and state legal advisor that worked on the Bill needs to be in attendance. The Committee will then know what the Bill said when it was introduced, how it changed over time, and what the procedure was. The programme is in a draft form and can change two days before the meeting. There might not even be a report in the first term for two of the five Bills while the rest should advance fairly quickly. There will be an initial and follow up briefings, with a break for parties to consider the next position for the Land Transport Amendment Bill. This Bill was taken to The National Council of Provinces (NCOP). The NCOP would have to take the Committee through what happened there.

The Chairperson asked the Committee Secretary if she was referring to 11 February 2020.

The Committee Secretary confirmed this reiterating there might be initial and follow up briefings as there is a lot of information and it is unlikely to all be covered in one session.

The Chairperson agreed especially as many of the Members were new.

Mr Mangcu thanked the Committee Secretary for her explanation. His concern was why the Committee was discussing strategic plans at the end of the year. It was also concerning that the Committee was reactive. The Committee must set its own agenda and be advised of critical matters to be dealt with within a timeframe. With these matters and timelines in consideration, the Committee must decide what it feels needs to be tackled. He would speak to this until it is implemented. He proposed the programme not ne accepted but reconstructed as per discussions this morning. This input and the oversight which Members deemed relevant and important, should be included into the 2020 programme.

Mr Hunsinger said this is a draft programme which does not have to be adapted, but noted. If any form of oversight and engagement happens, which he agrees should as it was an oversight by the previous Committee which hardly got anywhere, he suggested the Committee engages with the war room of PRASA. He was concerned the war room had become isolated and regionally confined. The Committee should also discuss the road accident report. These two areas should be prioritised on the programme.

Ms Ramadwa disagreed with the Committee Secretary who said that submissions will be looked at to see who will be in attendance at the public hearing - some people might not submit due to various challenges. Secondly, the Bill’s regulations must include the submissions and public input and the report will be made available to assist the Minister in making the regulations. She suggested the Committee should have a timeframe for when matters concerning the draft programme should be submitted. There should be another version of the programme after the strategic planning as further matters could be raised there and inserted to the programme. She asked if the Committee would embark on a study tour. 

Mr L McDonald (ANC) was concerned that the road safety for December, specifically, was not on the programme. As the festive season begins it is expected that accidents will increase, but there are no programmes from the Department of Transport on its strategy or plan. Secondly, regarding the public hearings on the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill, it will have a serious impact on general aviation aircraft, small and privately owned aircrafts as well as flight schools. It will be important that there are public hearings in places such as Bloemfontein, Durban and Johannesburg, as reading the Bill he found it will have huge implications on aviation in South Africa.

Mr Mabhena asked for clarity about the strategy planning session of a Committee - is this where one discussed future Bills and matters? Or does it discuss which oversight will happen, when and where? The Committee needs to decide on the final programme and what will happen on 28 and 29 March. This has made today a futile exercise. Regardless of how full the Committee’s programme is for the first term, the Committee needs to do oversight.

The Chairperson asked the Committee to accept the fact that the draft document has not been set in stone and will be modified as the Committee modifies the programme. If the Committee did not have the draft they would not be engaging with matters such as the strategic plan. Matters that have been raised today includes the matter of oversight, which needs to be made space for.

The Committee Secretary responded that on Thursday, 28 January 2020, the National Assembly Programming Committee will decide what Parliament’s programme will look like for 28 January 2020 until 18 March 2020. Parliament’s programme will determine the Committee’s programme, which does not include oversight. It is unlikely that the Committee will not be granted permission to do oversight or study tours if it does not say so on the programme. To answer Mr Mangcu, Committees busy with legislation are boxed in and cannot deal with outside matters. If oversight is granted, the Committee will try to do that on a Friday as the Committee can make a case for going on Fridays as Fridays are Committee days. If there will be any oversight, it will probably be towards the end of March. A Committee has the power to change agenda items on a draft programme. The programme will be draft, in many instances, until the end of the term. This plan is only for one term because this Committee, nor the previous one, had a strategic planning session. The coming strategic planning session will be the Committee’s first one, and this will be for five years. Thereafter it will become clear as to what matters will be prioritised, and when oversight will happen.

The Chairperson said the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill will be available for public comment until 15 January 2020. Thereafter the Committee will decide where the Bill will go. The Committee will request to be made aware of the plans the Department has for the festive season. He agreed Members should be able to request matters that the Committee will engage with. The draft programme will change over time as decisions are made.

Mr Mangcu had a problem with the submission of matters approach. He thought the approach taken at the beginning of this term has been predictable. It is important to slot in matters that will be interacted with and moved forward instead of only rubberstamping. He asked the Chairperson what the intention of the strategic session is.

Mr Chabangu asked the Chairperson and Committee Secretary if there will be trips, as he felt it is important that trips be undertaken.

The Chairperson stated that once a strategic plan is agreed upon, the Committee must also deal with its expectations for that strategic plan. He asked the Committee Secretary for more information.

The Committee Secretary said the support staff has a draft strategic plan that can be forwarded to Members for clarification. This has not yet been done because the draft strategic plan lacked information so she was hesitant to send it to Members. Secondly regarding the NA Programming Committee, in a non-election year, at the end of November, the joint programming committees will come up with what the parliamentary terms will look like for a parliamentary year. This will include Members’ training and usually one week of oversight. The entities and departments will submit reports at the end of March 2020, which is usually a constituency period.  Members will deal with the strategic planning session, annual performance planning and budget votes in the second term after the constituency period - this will not be reflected in the programme for the first term.  A section of the third term is usually set aside for oversight and plenary, study tours are normally in the second and third term. The fourth term will consist of annual budget reviews. The strategy plan activities will be set up along these terms.

The Chairperson answered Mr Chabangu saying that the draft plan’s aim is to accommodate the wishes of the Committee, to include oversight and study tours. 

Committee Minutes dated 19 November 2019

The Chairperson directed the Committee to the Minutes of the Committee for 19 November 2019. He asked the Committee if any correction was needed on pages one, two or three. None were needed. He asked for a motion for adoption.

Mr McDonald moved for the adoption of the minutes.

Ms Ramadwa seconded the motion.

Commitee minutes dated 19 November 2019 were adopted without amendments.

Closing remarks

The Chairperson, in closing, mentioned the Committee is made proud by the Springboks, and their success should be celebrated. The prayer at FNB stadium should also be recognised, the Committee should find a way to join as it continues. The Chairperson also congratulated Maritzburg United on making it to the final of the Telkom knockout, as well as Mamelodi Sundowns for being in the final.

Mr McDonald extended condolences on behalf of the Committee towards the aircraft accident that happened the previous weekend in the Congo. He sympathised with that.

The Chairperson said that everyone present should enjoy the festive season and return rejuvenated. If any Do Not Drink and Drive campaigns are happening, people should let each other know so that everyone can join. This message should be relayed to all.

Mr Mangcu asked when the Committee will reconvene for the strategy planning in order to make arrangements.

The Chairperson said information is still awaited, but as it stands, the Committee will convene on 28 and 29 January 2020. The Committee will be called otherwise

The meeting was adjourned.