Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities Budgetary Review Recommendations Report

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Meeting Summary

Available here once adopted: BRRR 2019 

The Committee discussed the prevalence of gender-based violence and femicide. The availability of rape kits at police stations and scarcity of doctors to perform assessments were raised as the main concerns. Members asked for a joint meeting to be held with the Portfolio Committees on Health, Police and Social Development to address these challenges. The incidents of children being violated by school teachers was also raised as a concern and Members asked for the Portfolio Committees on Basic Education and Higher Education, Science and Technology to be included in the proposed meeting. Members raised the concern of disabled people begging for money in the streets, being evicted from houses provided to them by government and not having access to employment because government buildings are not user-friendly. The transformation of the labour market was raised as a concern. Members also discussed the issue of performing oversight visits individually or collectively as a Committee.

The presentation was led by a Parliamentary Researcher and it highlighted the Committee’s observations and recommendations. The Committee questioned the nature of expenditure by the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities given that only few of its targets were met in its core programmes. Many deliverables have been long-standing, in draft form and some even undertaken by consultants. The Committee questioned whether the Department was using its budget to give effect to its mandate. The lack of disciplinary action taken against officials who incur irregular expenditure, internal controls, consequence management and the absence of an implemented National Gender Policy framework were also raised as concerns. The Committee recommended that time frames be put in place for vacancies to be filled and progress reports to be submitted to Members. Members asked for additional funding for the Commission for Gender Equality to be included as a recommendation. Members also raised concern on the issue of fronting and the lack of uniformity across the provinces in implementing the Sanitary Dignity programme.

The Committee adopted the report and minutes with amendments.

Meeting report

The Chairperson opened the meeting and welcomed everyone in attendance. Gender-Based Violence (GBV) is escalating every day and this is worrisome. The Committee will meet with the Portfolio Committees on Higher Education, Science and Technology and Basic Education to discuss the issue of safety of students. It is unacceptable that the very people who are supposed to be protecting children in schools are the ones who are violating them. Over the past weekend there was a two-year old who was raped by her father and a six-year old was raped and killed in Limpopo. Action needs to be taken against such incidents. The Committee needs to also meet with the Commission for Gender Equality (CGE) to fast track these issues.

The Chairperson said the Department of Justice (DOJ) must allocate Magistrates or Judges to specifically deal with cases of GBV. Cases are being prolonged due to a lack of evidence and eventually end up being dismissed by the courts. During an oversight visit it was discovered there was an issue of pending applications for DNA test kits. If police stations must first apply in order to receive such kits, it presents a challenge for women who have to open cases at the stations. This issue must be addressed urgently.

The Chairperson said the Budgetary Review Recommendations Report (BRRR) was dealt with by Members last week who made amendments to it. The Committee must check to see if any further additions need to be made. The Committee has received a letter requesting it to deal with the issue of vacant posts in the National Youth Development Agency (NYDA). A response letter has been sent to the NYDA Chair stating that the posts must be filled at once and new candidates must start on the 1 June 2020. The filling of posts is a long process including advertising, screening people and verifying qualifications. There is a lot of preparation that needs to be done. The Committee must wait to hear back if its recommendation has been approved or not.


Ms N Sharif (DA) said during an oversight visit at the Soweto police station it was found that rape kits were in fact delivered. The Committee must invite someone from the South African Police Services (SAPS) to explain the process. It is difficult for Members to do oversight when they don’t understand the process of getting rape kits to police stations.

Ms Kashifa Abrahams, Committee Researcher, replied the procurement happens at a provincial level but it is the national supply chain management that handles the contract. The Portfolio Committee in each province controls the interim distribution to police stations. The Station Commander is the one that must alert the provincial head on what the station needs. The Station Commander is the one that must be held accountable if there are no rape kits in respective police stations. 

The Chairperson said the Station Commander makes it appear as if the process to obtain rape kits is a lengthy one. It is their day-to-day responsibility that needs to be attended to. They cannot fail to make applications for rape kits.

Ms T Mgweba (ANC) said the Committee must invite someone from SAPS to confirm the process. During an oversight visit the station commander informed Members that in order to get DNA test kits for smaller stations such as Daveyton, Actonville and Ekurhuleni, he must go to the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences (FCS) unit at the Benoni police station. GBV and femicide is very strong in the area of Ekurhuleni. Victims are sent to the nearest clinic for an assessment where there is only 1 doctor available on Fridays.

The Chairperson asked what happens to someone who is raped on Monday and the doctor is only available on Friday to do the assessment.

Ms Mgweba replied victims are informed to return the following week. This situation highlights the challenge of finalising rape cases. When the Committee last visited the Daveyton police station there were 5 children who were kidnapped and raped over the weekend. This investigation requires a DNA test kit and the FCS unit is in Benoni. The fact that only 1 doctor is available on Fridays at the Philip Moyo clinic adds to this challenge.

The Chairperson asked if the clinic is a district one and where victims are referred to.

Ms Mgweba replied it is a provincial one. Victims are always taken to the Philip Moyo clinic. The Committee needs to invite someone from SAPS to ensure Members there is procurement at the provincial level. This process must be made clear otherwise it will continue to be a discussion amongst Members without any tangible programmes.

The Chairperson agreed and said the Committee needs to have a joint meeting with the Department of Police (DOP). The Committee Secretary was asked to start with this process and to put it on the agenda.

Ms Abrahams replied the Departments of Health (DOH) and Social Development (DSD) are also critical in understanding the issue of rape kits and doctor availability. There is a chain of people, such as social workers and nurses, who need to be engaged with. The Committee can’t do something tangible without working together with the DOH, DSD and DOJ.

The Chairperson said the Committee must prioritise which departments it wants to meet with. The joint meeting must have a goal it wants to achieve. The issue of how to fast track cases and matters dealing with children must be dealt with first. There is an area in Gauteng where many disabled people sit and beg for money in the streets and no one knows where they come from. Members must do an oversight visit in this area.

Ms M Hlengwa (IFP) said the issue of rapists needs to be addressed and the Committee must write a petition where each member signs it. The petition must be circulated to all 9 provinces in order to speed up the process.

Ms B Maluleke (ANC) said the joint meeting between Members and the Portfolio Committee on Police will pave a way forward. It should take place before a petition is signed.

The Chairperson said the matter is urgent and she will speak to the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Police.

Ms M Khawula (EFF) spoke in isiZulu. There is a problem with people who call themselves non-Profit Organisations (NPO’s) when in fact they are fraudsters. In each of the provinces there are a lot of disabled people who are taken by busses and put in an area. There must be oversight over this situation. The Committee must find out who is making disabled people their workers and find out where the money is going. There is human trafficking involved here. There also needs to be an engagement with each province to look at whether suitable housing is being built for disabled people.

The Chairperson said the Committee needs to look into the issue of disabled people having the right to access housing.

Ms Khawula said there is a group of disabled people in Durban who do not have places to stay. They have been complaining about the former Mayor who evicted them from houses provided to them by the government. Contact information will be given to the Committee to investigate this matter. Disabled people have certificates and diplomas yet they are not being hired because government buildings are not user-friendly. Many buildings do not have ramps.

The Chairperson said the Committee must identify issues which require urgent oversight.

Ms C Phiri (ANC) said the availability of rape kits remains both a provincial and national issue. The joint meeting is important to have but it is also important for the Committee to make a statement indicating that national government has the responsibility to ensure all police stations have rape kits. The issue of rape is happening in deep rural areas where communication is poor. The reason why some police stations do not have the rape kits is because of the long process. Can the Committee make a statement that will ensure all police stations have rape kits irrespective of the station commander making a request?

Ms Phiri said the issue of disabled people begging for money in the streets happens all over the country, from Musina to Cape Town. Members must bear in mind the government is very proactive and is taking care of all South African citizens. In Musina, most of the disabled people are not South Africans and this is a challenge. Even South African citizens are begging for money on the streets. What is happening with the South African Social Security Agency (SASSA) and the grants? There needs to be an inter-departmental meeting to address this.

Ms Phiri said Parliament requires all Committees to do oversight but it is the responsibility of each Committee to plan a date. Before the date is set, the availability of Members must be checked in order for everyone to be present. The Committee must then identify issues and make its own report. On the eviction of disabled people, why are they not going to shelters? When a house is built, there is a beneficiary and the Mayor doesn’t have the right to take the house away from such beneficiary. The Committee needs to do its own oversight on these issues and make recommendations where needed.

Mr L Mphithi (DA) said the scope of the Committee is to deal with many vulnerable groups of people. It is important to not get overwhelmed by all the issues that exist. In order for the Committee to make progress it needs to focus and narrow things down. Homelessness is not part of the Committee’s scope but when Members see such things it isn’t right to not raise the issue. Much work needs to be done in order to protect the most vulnerable people in society. On rape kits, there are a number of people that have started visiting police stations to check this issue. This is a great way for the Committee to continue that work rather than starting something new and different.

Mr Mphithi said the Committee must not forget the promises made to the LGBQTI+ community when Members met with them. This must be a standing item in the discussion before the Committee puts more on its plate. On oversight, Members must either continue to do it individually or as a Committee. Doing it as a Committee will be more impactful as more information will be gathered and decisions can be taken that carry more weight. When Members do individual oversight, issues are picked up and driven politically through respective political parties. In order to make legislative changes, the Committee is required to be present.

Mr S Ngcobo (DA) said the Human Rights Commission did extensive research between the period of 2013 to 2017 on the subject of persons with disabilities. The Committee must look at this report because a number of good recommendations were made. One of them was that there needs to be engagement between the Department of Labour (DOL), Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA) and the private sector to facilitate faster transformation of the labour market. The Committee must work in conjunction with various stakeholders that have an interest in this matter.

The Chairperson agreed and asked for the Committee researchers to provide Members with this information. There is also an issue of widows who experience problems when claiming their estates at the Master’s Office. The Committee has a lot of work to do and needs to prioritise issues to be dealt with. The first issue is GBV and a joint meeting must be had with the Portfolio Committees on Police and Health. Victims are referred to various departments at different stages so the issue can’t be separated between Committees. There also needs to be a meeting with the Portfolio Committees on Basic Education, Higher Education, Science and Technology and Justice.

Ms Mgweba said there are 6 committees that need to be met with in 2 separate meetings.

Ms F Masiko (ANC) said the DSD should not be separated from the meeting with the DOP because their programmes run in the same circles.

The Chairperson said the Committee can spread the challenges of disabled and LGBQTI+ persons over the 5-year period. The Committee needs to be given progress reports from each department.

Ms Khawula spoke in isiZulu. There is a challenge at Kayamandi in Stellenbosch. The toilet is far from people’s houses and the line is long and filled with women, children and men. The living situation for people in the community is horrible. The Committee needs to do an oversight visit there. There might also be cases of rape that are not reported or cases do not progress.

The Chairperson said the Committee should meet on Wednesday. Members will be informed if there is a possibility of doing oversight in the coming week. Ms Khawula was asked to write to the Committee Secretary on the issues she receives from people in order to refer them to the relevant department. All Members are welcome to write about any urgent issues that need to be addressed.

Mr Mphithi said there was an incident in Khayelitsha where a husband shot his two children, wife and then himself. The bodies of the wife and the children have been in the mortuary for over a month now while the body of the husband has been buried by his family. His family refuse to let the wife’s family bury her and the children. This is an issue where the Committee can assist to help the maternal family get peace and bury their family Members. The Committee can assist with this on Wednesday.

The Chairperson said the Committee will refer the matter to the relevant department and follow up on it to help the family. The Committee Secretary was asked to get the details of the family from Mr Mphithi. The BRRR was nearly adopted last week. The presentation will highlight the additions and amendments made to the report.

Presentation on the BRRR

Ms Abrahams said the presentation will focus on the Committee’s observations and recommendations of the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities. The Committee questioned the nature of expenditure by the Department given that only a few of its targets were met in its core programmes. Many deliverables have been long-standing, in draft form and some even undertaken by consultants. A limited number of tangible deliverables have been implemented in its final state. As a result, the Committee questioned why the main cost drivers were employment and goods and services. The Committee noted that the recommendations of the Auditor General of South Africa (AGSA) was not implemented. Concern was raised on the lack of accountability and oversight within the Department. The Committee remained concerned about whether the Department was using its budget to give effect to its mandate. The Department did not clearly indicate how its targets have contributed towards the National Development Plan (NDP). The Committee also noted the Department’s silence on the National Gender Policy framework which has yet to be fully implemented. The Department had said it was going to update this policy but failed to do so because it was busy working on guidelines.

The Chairperson said the Department needs to be given a time frame to complete the framework. If there is no framework, the Department is unable to monitor other departments on this issue. The time-frame should form part of the Committee’s recommendations.

Ms Abrahams said the Committee raised concern on the consequence management and internal controls. The Committee noted the repeat findings of irregular expenditure and questioned the efforts to deal with this challenge. The AGSA’s finding that it was unable to obtain evidence of disciplinary steps taken against transgressors was also noted as a concern. The repeat finding of supply chain management in terms of procurement and contract management was also noted. On the internal audit unit, the Committee calls on the Department to strengthen the unit with human resources and material capacity. The Committee questioned the extent to which risks were properly identified and plans put in place to avoid non-delivery of targets. On performance reporting and compliance with laws and regulations, the accounting officer and senior management did not exercise effective oversight. The leadership of the Department needs to take more decisive action to enforce compliance and consequence management. The Committee noted the structure of the Department continues to be top-heavy and there is a discrepancy in the use of consultants.

Mr Mphithi said Members do not have the full organogram of the Department before them to say it is top-heavy. The Department has been asked previously to provide this. The structure which was sent to Members was not of the entire Department and positions were left out. Can the reference to top-heavy be written differently in the report?

Ms Abrahams replied the Committee remains concerned about the top-heavy structure of the Department where its core programmes function on far less staff than its administrative programme. The inadequate capacity has directly impacted on its ability to meet its targets. The Committee noted that non-delivery can also be attributed to poor planning. An assessment of the organogram is required to determine where the capacity constraints exist. The top-heavy structure is based on where the funds go to and who receives salary bands.

Ms Abrahams said the Committee noted the use of consultants as a concern. It brings into question the role, responsibility and earning capacity of officials when the delivery of targets is undertaken by consultants. The Committee asked why the Department was still using consultants while paying its staff a high amount. The Committee also noted concern on the expediency of resolving irregular expenditure cases.

The Chairperson said there was a post which the Committee advised the Department to make an application to the Development Bank of Southern Africa (DBSA). Where does that fall in?

Ms Abrahams replied it falls under vacancies. The Committee raised concern about the cost implications of officials who have been placed on suspension. On performance awards, it is unclear on what basis these were allocated. Many of the deliverables are in draft form with no tangible evidence of impact and a significant amount of work has been outsourced to consultants or contract workers. The Committee noted historical debts that were still reflected in the financial statements. On irregular expenditure, the transactions incurred for the 2017/18 financial year were referred to the National Treasury (NT) for investigation and no feedback has been given to the Committee on this.

Mr Mphithi said the Committee asked the Department to address the issue of irregular expenditure by looking back at historical transactions. The report of the AGSA showed that transactions went as far back as 2010. The main issue is that there are repeat findings over a number of years. It is fundamentally important to point this out because in the next financial year the report needs to show it as a continuing issue that requires improvement.

Ms Masiko said the inability of the Department to obtain a clean audit shows there has been unauthorised, wasteful and irregular expenditure for consecutive years. Is this a repeat finding or is it just irregular expenditure over the years?

Ms Abrahams replied it is the same repeat findings.

Ms Masiko asked if it was necessary for the Committee to note it. It will always be there because it is a repeat finding.  

The Chairperson said it is necessary because the Committee is pushing the Department to fast track its disciplinary cases. One of the posts in supply chain management can’t be filled because the case has not been finalised. The Department needs to be encouraged to fast track the finalisation of its disciplinary cases.

Ms Maluleke said it must be noted in the Committee’s recommendations rather than the observations.

Ms Mgweba said the back of the report contains recommendations that speak to the observations raised.

The Chairperson said it is better for the Committee to raise comments on the observations so that when it gets to the recommendations it only does checks on it. Every time there are amendments made in the observations, recommendations are also amended.

Ms Khawula spoke in isiZulu. The Committee must give the Department a time frame. A report must be provided with the names of the people the Department has employed to avoid the situation of prolonged cases. The report must also show who is suspended and the reasons for the suspension. This will avoid situations where the same people are hired again because their misconduct was not specified. There is a problem where people don’t want to work. Money is being misused and someone is suddenly suspended without having an idea how long the person has been suspended for, if there was a decision taken and if the person was arrested. If one person is arrested for fraud then other candidates will see it and avoid being corrupt.

Ms Khawula said when the Audit Risk Committee (ARC) presented its report to the Committee, Members made the decision that it must present monthly progress reports. This point must not be forgotten in the recommendations. All the outstanding matters of the Department and the ARC must be provided for in a progress report and time frames must be put in each recommendation. On consequence management, the issues that need immediate attention must be identified and the Department must provide a progress report. 

Ms Abrahams said the Committee raised concern about the perpetual virements between programmes as this indicates poor planning. On supply chain management, Members also noted with concern the number of invoices paid outside the 30-day period. On the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) governance structure, the Committee noted that capacity constraints need to be addressed by employing the requisite personnel. On the Sanitary Dignity programme, the Committee raised concern that there was no uniformity at a provincial level for the distribution of sanitary pads.

Ms Masiko said the biggest concern is the admission by the Department that it is failing to coordinate the Sanitary Dignity programme in the provinces. The framework is in draft form so the provinces are implementing the programme in a way that suits its own needs. This needs to be noted because a lot of money has been spent in developing the framework and the provinces are not using it as a guide to implement the programme.  

Ms Abrahams replied this comment will be included in the report as follows “The Committee is particularly concerned that the Department is unable to coordinate the Sanitary Dignity Programme in the provinces and the draft Sanitary Dignity Framework in its pilot form is not currently being implemented”.

The Chairperson said the Committee has stated that it wants the whole project to benefit women. The whole value chain must benefit women cooperatives.

Ms Abrahams said the Department indicated that it had developed the Gender Responsive Planning, Budgeting, Monitoring, Evaluation framework (GRPBMEA) which was approved by Cabinet in March of this year. This framework is not yet fully operational because guidelines still need to be developed.

Ms Khawula spoke in isiZulu. On the GRPBMEA framework, does Cabinet know if what is approved actually reaches the people? If Cabinet sees that it doesn’t reach the people, what procedures and actions are taken? There is a problem here because Cabinet discusses and approves the framework but at the end there is no work happening on the ground. 

The Chairperson said the Department informed the Committee about what happened with the Sanitary Dignity programme. The budget was allocated to provinces but provinces did their own thing and there was no uniformity. Now there are guidelines that direct provinces on what to do. The whole value chain must benefit women and young disabled women, from manufacturers to suppliers. The programme is meant to address the issue of distributing sanitary towels to girls in schools and disadvantaged groups.

Ms Khawula spoke in isiZulu. The Committee must make sure that what it discusses actually happens on the ground. There are male cooperatives at schools who distribute the sanitary pads. Women need to take control and not let men do things on their behalf. The unemployed youth form part of the cooperative but are not getting work. There is an issue of male fronting.

The Chairperson said the Committee must discourage people from fronting because the programme is intended to empower people economically. If there are fronts then the programme does not address its objectives. The Committee needs to engage with the Department on how it can put a close to fronting. 

Ms Abrahams said the Committee noted the need for the CGE to conduct dedicated monitoring and evaluation of the Department’s programmes. The CGE was also urged to resolve the findings made by the AGSA.

Mr Mphithi said there are no recommendations in respect of funding for the CGE. Does it make sense to state as an observation that the CGE needs more funds in order to do its work? The CGE has told the Committee that it does not possess the requisite funding to do its job adequately and meaningfully. The Committee has agreed to assist by motivating for more funds.

The Chairperson said this comment needs to be captured and made as a recommendation because it is only the Committee that can assist the CGE to be adequately funded. This is the time for the NT to review how it allocates funds to the CGE.

Ms Abrahams said the report will include the following comment “The Committee acknowledged the immense strain placed on the CGE’s budget in trying to give effect to its mandate”. The Committee asked whether the CGE employed disabled people as part of its staff component. Members remain concerned about the pending files between quarters and financial years and the challenges faced by the CGE to attend to this expeditiously. GBV, maintenance matters and sexual offences still dominate as the main cases across all provinces. The training initiative with SAPS on the handling of sex workers is commended by the Committee but it is important to see how this will be sustained and rolled out nationally given the resource and financial constraints.


Mr Ngcobo said the CGE has neglected sex workers. Those women are abused, assaulted and blackmailed by the police every day. They are killed every day and the painful part is that they cannot report their cases because their work is seen as illegal. The CGE should make law reforms to the DOJ calling for the decriminalisation of sex workers in South Africa. Can the Committee look into this?

The Chairperson said this can be looked at in the next financial year.

Ms Masiko said it is unfair to say the CGE has neglected sex workers because it has done extensive studies and reports on the decriminalisation of sex work. This can be found on the CGE’s website. The Committee can ask the CGE to provide these reports in order for Members to further engage with them on this issue.

The Chairperson said the Committee needs to focus on the work the CGE has done. The issue raised by Mr Ngcobo requires more debate.

Ms Abrahams said the Committee should ensure its recommendations are implemented. The Committee recommends the Department to undertake effective planning to give effect to its mandate and to ensure that targets identified in its annual performance report are adhered to. The Committee recommends that it uses its budget optimally to give effect to its mandate. The Department is recommended to develop an audit action plan to address the root causes of the problems and specify time frames. The Committee recommends the Department reports monthly to Members on its progress. The Committee recommends the Department to provide a list of names of officials who have incurred irregular expenditure, cost incurred and the consequence management implemented. The Department must provide quarterly reports on the consequence management it will take to remedy the poor performance of senior management staff.

Ms Abrahams said the Department is to provide the Committee with detailed financial reports for activities on a quarterly basis. On irregular expenditure, the Department should provide a comprehensive report on the investigations and steps taken to prevent such cases. The Department is to avoid virements between programmes but in the event it has to be done, this needs to be brought to the attention of the Committee. On internal control and risk management, the Department must provide the Committee with a report on the risk management systems, challenges identified and remedial action. On human resources, the Committee requests the Department to submit a detailed organogram which clearly indicates funded and unfunded positions to clearly illustrate what the capacity constraints are.

Ms Abrahams said the Committee recommends all vacancies should be filled permanently within the next six months. Where this is not complied with, the Department should provide reasons for this in the quarterly reports to the Committee. On the use of consultants, the Committee requests the Department to indicate what measures it will implement to avoid this in the future. On supply chain management, the Committee recommends the Department provides a monthly report on deviations and steps taken against officials who fail to comply with the policies. Where deviations were allowed, the motivation should be clearly stipulated. The Committee recommends the Department should ensure improved collaboration with the CGE and all other relevant organs of state as well as civil society.

Ms Abrahams said the Committee requests a plan that outlines how the Department collaborates with key stakeholders with a specific emphasis on GBV and femicide. On the Sanitary Dignity programme, the Committee recommends the Department ensures that women and persons with disabilities benefit from the whole value chain. The Committee recommends the CGE should ensure the following recommendations are implemented: an audit action plan is developed, measures on internal control and quarterly reports on actions taken to deal with poor performance delivery. The CGE should be provided with additional funds. Specific emphasis should be placed on the funding of staff for legal clinics, public education and information, communication and legal support. Provinces with the largest case load should be prioritised where offices require additional support. The Committee urges the Department to take its recommendations seriously and implement these expeditiously.

The Chairperson said the recommendations are captured accurately. She asked Members if the report can be adopted.

Ms T Masondo (ANC) agreed with the adoption of the report.

Ms Hlengwa also agreed.

The Chairperson said the report has been adopted by the Committee.

Adoption of minutes

The Chairperson referred to the 8 October 2019 Committee minutes and said that page 3 should be corrected to state the manner in which the presentation was simplified. On page 5, it should be corrected to state “The Chairperson thanked the Members of the committees, the CGE, support staff and the AGSA for participating in the meeting”. She asked Members if it can be adopted.

Mr Mphithi moved for the adoption of the minutes.

Ms Masiko seconded this.

The Chairperson referred to the 9 October 2019 Committee minutes and noted the apologies from Ms Maluleke and Ms Phiri. Members must submit apologies to the Committee Secretary and not sick notes.

Ms Sharif said the minutes do not include the Department’s responses to what the Committee raised. It is helpful to record this because the minutes should be inclusive of what happened in the meeting.

The Chairperson said the minutes are captured according to Parliament format. Some of the issues raised were not answered by the Department. The Committee Secretary was asked to follow up on this.

Ms Sharif said properly structured minutes are important. It must reflect the outcome of what the Department said.

Ms Khawula spoke in isiZulu.

Ms Abrahams replied the Department didn’t answer some of the questions raised by Members and these responses should be given to the Committee in writing.

The Chairperson asked if the minutes can be adopted.

Ms Mgweba moved for the minutes to be adopted with amendments.

Ms Hlengwa seconded this.

The Chairperson referred to the 15 October 2019 Committee minutes and said Ms Sharif attended a business meeting with the Southern African Development Community (SADC) on this day. The Committee Secretary was asked to specify when Members are representing the Committee in parliamentary business.

Ms A Hlongo (ANC) moved for the minutes to be adopted with amendments.

Ms Khawula seconded this.

The Chairperson said the minutes are adopted.

The meeting was adjourned.  


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