Committee Reports: Police Minister & Economic Development Deputy Minister Executive Undertakings Progress; Hlabana Petition

NCOP Petitions and Executive Undertakings

24 October 2018
Chairperson: Mr D Ximbi (ANC, Western Cape)
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Meeting Summary

Documents handed out: Committee reports available at Tabled Committee Reports once published

The Committee's role on executive undertakings is to hold the Minister accountable. The Select Committee considered and adopted its Committee Reports on the Progress in the Police Minister and Economic Development Deputy Minister Executive Undertakings and Hlabana Petition (Mantsopa Municipality basic services failure).

A committee member complained that the Police Minister refuted that there were insufficient police personnel in the Western Cape yet his very report stated that police personnel were insufficient in the Western Cape.

Meeting report

Committee Report on Hlabana Petition (Mantsopa Municipality basic services failure) 
The Chairperson said they should go through the report page by page.

Ms B Engelbrecht (DA, Gauteng) noted the state of affairs at Mantsopa Municipality. There is no transparency and accountability in that municipality. Therefore, the onus is on the province to monitor and ensure that the municipality does the right thing by executing its duties.

Dr Mimi Gondwe, Committee Content Adviser, said that Ms Engelbrecht is correct but they were told that learnerships lay with the Office of the Premier and that the Office will be running everything. The recommendation about transparency will not be difficult for the municipality to accept as one of the complaints was that the general public was not aware what is going in that municipality, which meant that the municipality needs to be more open about what is happening with the affairs of the municipality.

Ms Engelbrecht emphasised that the province needs to look at the state of affairs at the municipality.

Ms T Wana, (ANC, Eastern Cape) proposed that the Committee must make a recommendation that contains a timeframe so as to finalise this matter.

Dr H Moteme (ANC, Limpopo) asked if this matter fell under the Petition Committee because to her it looks like a matter that should be dealt by the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs (COGTA).

The Chairperson said that this is a public petition which the Committee has to deal with but it is referred to COGTA so that it can be monitored, and the Committee is taking it to the province so that it can be monitored.

Ms Engelbrecht said they need to go back to the municipality and do an inspection in loco before the end of the financial year.

Dr Gondwe said that the support staff will draft a recommendation that has a timeframe so that they finalise this matter before the end of the financial year.

The Committee adopted the report with amendments.

Committee Report on Executive Undertakings Progress made by Minister of Police
Ms Engelbrecht said that the Minister of Police, Bheki Cele was very arrogant towards her in the 21 August meeting and that should be noted by the Committee. In future the Chairperson must protect Members of the Committee because it is the duty of the Executive to account to Parliament. It is their right as Members to ask questions of the Minister and he has to reply to those questions.

The Chairperson said that perhaps Ms Engelbrecht should have written a letter to the Committee explaining her dissatisfaction with the Minister or rather she should have raised the matter in the meeting with the Minister. But of course protection will be provided to all Members of the Committee.

Ms Engelbrecht reminded them that she had asked a question about the Western Cape and the Minister of Police was very aggressive, saying that she was lying and there are sufficient resources in the Western Cape. It was the Minister’s own report which stated that there are insufficient resources in the Western Cape and he refuted that. This needs to be mentioned in the Committee Report as the Minister was not telling the truth because there not enough police officers in the Western Cape.

The Chairperson said he does not think they can put this matter in this report. If the Minister said there are enough resources, then there are ways of checking those resources. It is not their duty to say there are resources or there are no resources.

Dr Moteme asked what the norms are because shortage of police personnel is not a problem of the Western Cape alone, it is a national problem. First and foremost where are the norms? If they have the norms they need to benchmark personnel against the norms, and do a comparative observation in the different provinces. In terms of policing, security and safety in the Western Cape ,the Minister is taking those seriously. She was not in the 21 August meeting when the Minister gave a progress report on his executive undertakings but she is checking and monitoring what the Minister is doing. Whatever solution must be a holistic one because it is not only in the Western Cape that has a shortage of police personnel.

Ms Engebrecht complained that it is not right for a Member to comment when she was not part of that meeting.

Dr Moteme said she was commenting on a principle not on the meeting per se.

Mr M Chetty (DA, KwaZulu-Natal) said that he was not part of that meeting either but he will also comment on the principle. The Committee's role on executive undertakings is to hold the Minister accountable. Ms Engelbrecht had posed a question that there were insufficient police personnel in the Western Cape. The Minister refuted that. However, in his report it stated that police personnel were insufficient in the Western Cape - that is the point. What they should do is to figure out whether it was right or wrong.

Ms G Oliphant (ANC, Northern Cape) said that she was present at that meeting. The Minister said he will work to end gangsterism in the Western Cape and he will add more police to what they have now. Every now and then he is here in Cape Town and he tries to do that.

Dr Gondwe said Members should not widen the issue but stick to what the executive undertaking is about. It is about the Resource Allocation Guide but now Members are widening the issue.

Ms Oliphant moved for the adoption of the report.

Mr E Mthethwa (ANC, KwaZulu-Natal) seconded the move.

The Committee adopted the report with amendments.

Committee Report on Executive Undertakings Progress by Economic Development Deputy Minister
The Committee adopted the report without changes.

The minutes of 13 June and 10 October 2018 were adopted.

The meeting adjourned.

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