SABC & ICASA Quarter 1 performance, Minister on court ruling on ministerial powers; with Deputy Minister present

Meeting report

Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA) on its Quarter 1 Performance
Minister of Communications, Ms Mmamoloko Kubayi, noted that in a few weeks, a full time ICASA chairperson would be appointed to replace the current interim chairperson. She said that ICASA is “comfortable” with the performance that has been made as “they sit with” 72.7% achieved targets in Quarter 1. Since she started her term as Minister, quite a lot of work has been done to strengthen ICASA, listing improvements in the performance of the telecommunications sector and buying resources. With more resources, they could get more done and she asked for support from the Committee on this. She also asked for support from the Committee to deal with the ICASA Councillors and their performance agreements and remuneration. There is concern about obtaining “value for money” on issued salaries in ICASA.

Q1 Performance Information Summary
Mr Willington Ngwepe, ICASA CEO, spoke about ICASA’s financial and non-financial performance during Q1. He said that the overall performance would be presented in statistical data, by presenting the progress made in the first quarter from six programmes. He referred to Minister Kubayi’s mention of the overall performance targets having totalled 72.7%. In comparison to the percentage of performance trends in the 2015/16 and 2016/17 financial years when 33% and 51% respective targets were achieved, 72.7% of targets reached in the 2017/18 financial year showed a significant improvement.

Achievements for Quarter 1 per Programme
Programme 1 Administration, which aimed to improve organisational performance, had achieved 100% of corporate services, HR, internal auditing Legal, Risk and Complaints and Compliance Committee (CCC) targets. He emphasised one of the HR targets achieved was reducing the vacancy rates to “lower than 9%”.

Programme 2 Licensing had the objective to improve the speed in which applications are processed. Of the four annual targets, all targets set for the licensing programme were met in Q1.

Programme 5 Regions had the strategic objective of protecting the rights of consumers. Among the most critical deliverable targets was to roll out services from national to regional offices.

Programme 6 Compliance and Consumer Affairs aimed at protecting the rights of consumers and monitoring licensees’ compliance with licence terms and conditions and applicable legislation and regulations by 2020. The annual target is 85% of all complaints resolved, of which the Q1 target set at 70% was achieved.

Non-Achievements for Quarter 1 per Programme
Programme 1 Administration: the main area of non-achievement was finance related targets. The Q1 target for revenue collection was set at 99% in Q1, but only 95% of that target was reached. The target for payment of invoices was 95%, but only 85% was reached due to Q1 being after the 2015/16 financial year.

Programme 2 Licensing: the strategic objective of improving organisational performance was not reached in the application process of amending individual licences. ICASA had 180 days to process applications, but many applications due in Q1 still have to be processed beyond the Q1 period. All the applications received were not processed.

Programme 3: Policy Research & Analysis had no deliverables in Q1. Most targets in this programme are annual targets due to the nature of the work. The fact that there are no deliverables does not mean no work was done as there are strategic project plans which are constantly monitored.

For each programme target there is an underlying processed plan. Performance is continually monitored.

In Programme 4 Engineering & Technology: the target was not fully achieved. Mpumalanga and Limpopo were monitored, but the required performance levels were not fully achieved due to a payment issue.

Programme 5 Regions: the targets were not achieved. 295 site investigations were conducted. However, due to a time lag after the investigations, not all the evidence was captured into a report. Thus the progress could not be presented in Q1. Measures would be put in place to correct the shortfalls.

In Programme 6 Compliance & Consumer Affairs: the main non-achievement was the establishment of consumer advisor finance. The process has since advanced.

Financial Performance
Mr Ngwepe presented Programmes Summary Report – June 2017 which specified the budget and expenditure for each programme (see slide). Only 21% of the Q1 budget was spent, primarily due to the fact that during the Q1 period, there are often delays here and there.

Update on Matters raised by Portfolio Committee on Communications
During the Committee’s oversight visit on 30 March 2017, Mr Ngwepe said that the Committee requested a detailed report on ICASA staff matters and how this would be resolved. As the Committee would recall, most issues raised were on industrial relations at ICASA. He updated the Committee on the Settlement Agreement on resolution of the 2016 industrial action which was concluded in August. ICASA employees have raised issues about how ICASA management implemented the Agreement and whether it was implemented properly. The dispute was referred to the Labour Court. He said that while the dispute process is underway, Councillors felt that there is still a need to explore different ways to resolve the dispute.

He updated the Committee on ICASA employee trade union representation. At the time of the 2016 ICASA employee strike, ICASA employees did not have trade union representation. Representation of ICASA employees by the National Union Trade Congress (NTUC) is undergoing a process of normalisation.

Mr Ngwepe raised the organisational structure of ICASA and the realignment of ICASA in 2014. ICASA is working on seeing where the structure works well and where it does not work well, and thereafter suggestions would be formulated on the areas that need correction.

Discussion
Mr G Davis (DA) said that based on recent interviews with potential ICASA Councillors, a candidate said that there was a monopoly in the paid television space resulting in exorbitant prices for DStv. He asked how ICASA planned to break that monopoly.

Minister Kubayi responded that ICASA has been quite clear and aware that a lot of work is needed.

Mr Paris Mashile, Acting Chairperson, ICASA, replied about the monopoly on television screening time and said that there is a project underway to deal with the matter involving Chapter 10 of the Competition Act. It involves a lengthy process to define the market and determine significant players. The law requires ICASA to take undertake such process and if all stakeholders are not consulted, then it is a failure. He emphasised that ICASA is confined by legislation as they have to determine market power and determine pro-competitive measures.

Mr Davis asked about R30 million that was underspent in Q1 due to old procurement processes. He asked why this target was set if there was an issue with procurement.

He asked why no Q1 targets were set for Programme 3: Policy Research & Analysis. He asked if this programme is not the one that investigates and he asked when the investigation would be completed. He asked what progress had been made for the end of high data costs as was pledged by the former Minister of Communications.

Mr Mashile replied that for policy review and analysis, even though no quarterly targets were set, there are certain milestones that needed to be achieved. In certain instances it is difficult to present whether something has been achieved or not. The target was not set, because it is difficult to achieve. The quarterly performance reports are only produced once the quarter is over, but the success is reported in the subsequent quarter. The nature of how progress is reported is based on an either-or situation so only “100% achievements” are reported. He gave an example of how a “97% achievement” was seen as “not achieved”.  

Mr Davis said that the cost containment measures were welcomed. Commenting on the fact that catering outside of training workshops would be limited to the ICASA Council and “Exco”. Catering to the employees would be limited if employees can afford to buy their own food. He asked why catering was not limited for senior staff.

Mr Mashile replied that he does not have an issue with Mr Davis’s proposal on catering. ICASA employees are not going out to lunch as their break is a short 30 minutes and perhaps they should increase the lunch period.

Mr Tebogo Matabane, ICASA CFO, said that if a meeting is less than one hour there is no catering.

Minister Kubayi said there are meetings that need catering.

Mr Davis said that his next question was related to a parliamentary question which he would like to put to Minister Kubayi which the previous minister refused to reply to a few weeks prior. He reminded the Minister of Section 6A of the ICASA Act where it speaks about how the Minister should consult with the National Assembly to establish a performance management agreement for ICASA councillors. He said that this system stipulated in Section 6A had not been put in place which is a breach of the law. His question to the previous minister was that performance agreements not being in place, goes against the ICASA Act, which he suspects was why the Minister wanted to “take it on”. He asked why the performance agreements were not signed, who is responsible for the performance agreements and when would they be put in place.

Minister Kubayi replied that there are no performance agreements currently in place so it is a critical matter. She said that there are disagreements on the performance agreements between the Department of Communications (DoC) and the ICASA Council. A template of the performance agreement has been put in place, but it has to be signed by all parties before it can be discussed in Parliament. So once there is an agreement with both parties, then it can be brought to Parliament.

Mr Davis mentioned the former ICASA CEO who was suspended for sexual harassment, pending a disciplinary hearing. He asked why the former ICASA CEO left with a payout from ICASA when he resigned voluntarily.

The Chairperson intervened and said that he would not allow Mr Davis to continue on the sexual harassment matter. The Committee had requested a report from ICASA on the matter and the Committee and Ms van Damme currently has the report.

Ms P van Damme (DA) said that she did not receive the report on the sexual assault. She said that the matter did not need to be “kept under wraps” and asked if the report could be circulated in the current meeting so that the matter could be addressed.

The Chairperson intervened and sternly said, “Do not go there”.

Mr Davis was confused and asked if the Committee should be in possession of the ICASA report on the sexual harassment case. He asked that the committee secretary ensure that the whole Committee received the report.

The Chairperson replied that Mr Davis should have the report.

Mr Davis said he did not need the report to ask a question. He asked if criminal charges were laid against the former ICASA CEO and emphasised that the Committee must stand up for victims of sexual harassment.

Mr R Tseli (ANC) said he agreed with the Chairperson on the matter of the report. He was a bit worried with some of the targets not obtaining 100%. He emphasised that a 100% target needs to be reached on the radio spectrum licences. He asked why the vacancy rate target was reduced from 9% to 7%.

On the vacancy rate, Mr Mashile emphasised that ICASA management have specialised knowledge but that at times ICASA cannot hire someone with a needed skill for a full year. ICASA does train people for key areas where skills are needed. ICASA is in an environment where supply and demand is a concern and the chance of having 100% filled positions is against what the market demands. High speed jobs are in demand. The professional and skilled people are not able to be employed, because ICASA does not have the financial resources to hire all.

Mr Matabane, ICASA CFO, referred to “a bigger process” on research consultant work which occurred “in March” where the policy analysis and research division had a meeting based on the 2016/17 financial year and saw the need to remove targets from Q1. On cost containment measures, he said that based on the outcome of the Competition Act, ICASA had to implement measures.

Ms M Matshoba (ANC) asked if the spectrum licence is available.

Minister Kubayi responded that that spectrum licensing is a continual process and that the matter is in Court. She mentioned that the matter of “small business is critical” for open access. She said that she hopes this area of spectrum licensing is related to sustainability as small businesses that “enter” need to obtain licences.

South African Broadcasting Corporation (SABC) on its Quarter 1 performance
Minister Kubayi said that feedback was received on “a report on financial issues” in the SABC. The SABC Treasury looks at how the programme is going to be using money as money must be used for capital investment. They have to see how money will be “turned around”. Treasury checks the ability to pay back money to lenders and how to be sustainable so they do not get into trouble. The financial body said that the majority of the budget must be sourced from the “commission space”. Financial management has many issues, but she emphasised that that part of “the headache” of financial management is related to state owned enterprises (SOE).

She noted that there is a new SABC Board. She told the SABC Chairperson that in order to have a public broadcaster that is effective, the Minister and Board should “keeps to its name” and act within the confines of what they are mandated to do. The Minister does not interfere with the Board and the Board does not interfere with the “the administration”. Since she has been a Member of Parliament in 2009, there have been three Boards and “if they look beyond that” she has to ask what the key issues have been that the Board faces. When she spoke to the Board, she emphasised sustainability. Some of the Boards were dissolved because Board members were fighting. She said that they want officials to behave like employees.

Minister Kubayi said that she has instructed her lawyers to appeal the High Court ruling that the appointment of key positions should solely be decided by the Board. She identified that Parliament was the appointing authority with the approval of the Minister. Emphasis was made that the SABC needs to appoint qualified executives and she is aware that this is needed, but her role in appointments is based on quality control and is needed to ensure that those appointed to the top positions in the executive and Board are “right and qualified”. Certain pronouncements made by judges were not effective, including the pronouncement on legal relations. As they appeal, they are seeking clarity from the court.

Mr Bongumusa Makhathini, SABC Board Chairperson, said that he had just over three weeks in office. The Board has had their induction and had already achieved a few things. During the induction there was an update from the interim Board that had been in place. Mandates have been set up in terms of what the Board requests.

During the Board meeting, it was agreed that the appointment of a new CEO and CFO was needed and in order to receive funding “they need to get to that level”. As a Board, they will embark on a rigorous process to lead the SABC to “the next era”. There are still various challenges such as the crucial factor that the SABC needs a turnaround. However, the right skills need to be sourced. The second agreement by the Board was on funding. They need to rework the submission for current funding and now that they are clear on what needs to be done, it is critical to address the financial need of the SABC.

On the SABC employee strike that lasted two days, Mr Makhathini said that if one refers to the stream of revenue, it is important that stability is needed. Funding is received from advertising and therefore it is important that the SABC remains operational. He said members of the Board were delegated by the SABC Management to engage with relevant trade unions on a framework as negotiations could not be made outside of a necessary framework. It is key for the Board to negotiate within a framework. Negotiations were reopened to find out what is important for employees. They have to find out what is important for our employees on strike and it is important for the Board to engage with relevant trade unions. Engagement will continue in order to find common ground between unions and SABC Board and Management.

Mr Makhathini said that on 4 November 2017, news was received of the death of Mr Sizwe Vilakazi, Head of SABC Legal Services, and a memorial service would be held on 8 November 2017.

Ms Bessie Tugwana, Acting SABC Group CEO, briefed the Committee on the SABC Quarter 1 report. She said that it was a difficult quarter for the SABC. The SABC has “reached the iceberg” in its financial performance and in its current financial crisis. From the end of June 2017, their creditors were owed around R597 million. On the positive side, the SABC has still been able to deliver programming and to meet certain mandate requirements.

Ms Tugwana said that the Total National Adult Radio listening share reached 71.4% with 28.9 million listeners per week. The share was pleasing as it shows that radio remains popular.

Due to constraints, “some work” was done on digital projects but there are various delays. However, by the end of June 2017, they signed all the performance agreements for programming.

On its performance against predetermined objectives, in Quarter 1 SABC recorded a loss of R74.4 million and was unable to reach its target in Quarter 1 due to advertiser cutbacks. The 60 days target was not reached as it took 78 days for the maintenance of payment of the favourable creditors as they owe creditors a large sum of money. On debtor’s collection, the target was 60 days and they struggle to meet that target, instead taking 64 days.

On content, SABC has been able to perform across the network in achieving lCASA local content quotas as per terrestrial television channel licence conditions. The target for SABC 1 was 70% and what was actually achieved was 77%. The target for SABC 2 was 60% and the actual achievement was 77%. The target for SABC 3 was 40% and the actual achievement reached was 57%. This performance is commendable, but it is costly to produce local content. Different models would be explored, such as establishing partnerships for a co-funding model.

On provincial performance there was a target for two programmes, but 25 programmes were implemented. A concerted effort between the SABC and provincial production companies resulted in more programmes being commissioned. Targets were low as usually nine provincial programmes are planned per quarter, but because of the financial situation they would target fewer programmes.

On broadcasting marginalised language content, she mentioned that while the target was planned for an average of 108 minutes of screening time, the actual achievement was 110 minutes. This indicated a slight improvement, but was still slow.

On the digital space, the SABC websites are “not anywhere where it should be”. A plan was formulated to upgrade two websites, but only one was upgraded. They have had suspend work that was underway and begin a new process, which currently has a procurement process in place.

On HR, they developed a pilot project based on developing a career progression framework and policy. They did not achieve the targets for training and workplace skills, because they did not have the funds.

On governance, a rigorous plan was developed to do monitoring on a monthly basis, and a similar approach was taken for internal auditing. In the risk assessment unit, the risk assessments are being conducted on various divisions as well as provincial offices.

Q1 Financial Performance
The SABC ended with an operating loss of R74.4 million against a budgeted loss of R103 million for Q1.

Revenue and other income for Q1 was R1.573 billion against a target of R1.773 billion, representing an underperformance of R200m (11%). Advertising revenue and television licence fee revenue are the main contributors to below budget performance.

Q1 expenses were R1.647 billion compared to the budget of R1.876 billion, which is a saving of R229m (12%). The below budget performance is mainly attributable to savings on the amortisation of programme, film and sports rights, broadcast costs, employee compensation and direct collection costs.

Response to matters raised previously by the Committee
Ms Tugwana replied that a strategy has been devised to address the decline in sponsorship. Secondly, the SABC provided the DoC and Committee with an update on the Committee dashboard. Lastly, on the implementation of the recommendations of the Ad Hoc Committee on the SABC Board Inquiry, the SABC Board is scheduled to provide feedback to the Committee on 28 November 2017.

Turnaround Strategies
Ms Tugwana said that there are various regulatory matters on which ICASA is being engaged on. She referred to various documents submitted to ICASA in Quarter 2, but the work on the documents started in Q1. Mention was made of SABC policies continually under review.

Review of Audit Findings raised by the Auditor General
Ms Tugwana said that there were a total of 146 audit findings. They are attending to resolving these: 80 are in progress, 28 are resolved and 38 are outstanding. The resolution of the audit findings are managed on a monthly basis.

In terms of the internal audit findings, there is an opening balance of 624 items. It is important to understand that the 624 items range over five years. The findings have been detailed in such a way that once the business units confirm that the findings are correct, the findings have to go back to the auditors and this is the reason why there are 474 unresolved findings.

Discussion
Ms van Damme said she would like to officially welcome Minister Kubayi as the third Minister of Communications in 2017 and it seems that she has hit the ground running. Disappointment was expressed that Minister Kubayi wants to appeal the recent High Court ruling in the the SOS Coalition case brought against the SABC. The judgement was very good as it gave legal certainty that the Broadcasting Act is the primary Act that applies to the SABC and it gave certainty of the independence of the SABC Board from the Executive. The government is very litigious and spends a lot of money on court cases, but they lose the majority of the cases. If the Minister says that a lot of the matters on the case do not have clarity, all she would need to do is get a declaratory order asking the Court to make matters clearer.

Ms van Damme expressed her disappointment at Ms Tugwana’s presentation as it was presented in a “blasé” and “vague” manner. The Committee continually has meetings with the SABC executive and “we know that the SABC is in a crisis”. It seems as if nothing different has been implemented, and she asked what the SABC executive plan to do about the crisis. No detail was received on how the executive plans to fix the crisis by presenting detailed plans. Instead it provided vague bullet points on performance outcomes and strategies.

Detail was requested on the appointment of the SABC top three executives as the process must be conducted in an open and transparent matter, but information on the matter has been kept secret. The former Minister of Communications was not happy with the candidates and the matter was “left up in the air”. She asked if the posts would be re-advertised, if the same candidates are being considered and what the candidates' credentials are.

The Premier Soccer League (PSL) rights have to be submitted by Friday 10 November and she asked if the SABC would submit their bid so that South African citizens are guaranteed that they can continue to watch soccer for free.

She was unconvinced by the Minister’s argument that there should be a separation of the SABC commercial and public divisions. The Broadcasting Act does not restrict oversight of Parliament to the public broadcasting sector while other information cannot be obtained by Parliament for review. When reporting on the SABC, the Minister should provide both public and commercial information. A request was made to provide detail on how the SABC funding application to National Treasury would be amended. She is not convinced by the argument that there is commercially sensitive information as the SABC will not lose their market share.

Ms van Damme asked Ms Tugwana why she received an R800 000 commission when the SABC is in serious financial trouble. She was grateful that Mr Makhathini had resigned from the Bongi Ngema-Zuma Foundation.

Mr Makhathini responded in presumed disagreement through his facial expressions.

Ms van Damme sarcastically remarked that Mr Makhathini resigned at least in the public domain. She also asked if Ms Febe Potgieter-Gqubule, SABC Board Deputy Chairperson, would accept an offer to be on the African National Congress National Executive Council (NEC).

Mr Davis said he wanted to offer condolences to the family of the deceased, Mr Vilakazi. He asked the Board if the circumstances of Mr Vilakazi’s death could be shared with the Committee as he read in the newspaper that nothing was stolen from Mr Vilakazi. He asked if “foul play” was involved as the death was suspect. He specifically asked if Mr Vilakazi’s death related to the work done at the SABC.

Mr Davis asked if the dispute had been resolved between the SABC and the Broadcasting, Electronic, Media & Allied Workers Union (BEMAWU) affiliated strikers requesting a 10% increase. He asked how it would resolved. He asked what measures would be put in place to ensure that the SABC remains operative in the event of a prolonged labour strike.

An announcement made by the Minister claiming that she wants “quality control”, and that is why she is appealing the High Court ruling, was something that Ms Muthambi did. Mr Davis said that “no one wants another Hlaudi” and that the new Minister wants to take the SABC back to the “Muthambi era” where the Minister gets the prerogative on who to appoint. He asked if the SABC is regressing under the new Minister and if she was close to Ms Muthambi. One of the problems in the SABC is the unlawful behaviour of ministers in the SABC Board. He asked if the SABC would fight the Minister’s appeal in court and if it would defend its independence as required by the Constitution.

The Special Investigating Unit (SIU) met with the SABC Board, who received a progress report by the SIU on investigations into the SABC. The highlights of the report were requested.

On cost containment measures, Mr Davis asked what had been done to curb high salaries “inherited from the Hlaudi Motsoeneng era”. He inquired if the 0% increase for salaries applied to junior staff also applied to senior staff.

Ms Matshoba said that during the past two weeks she had been expecting a briefing on the SABC strike.

Mr Tseli said they he is confident that the new SABC Board will deliver on its mandate. It was inappropriate and improper for the Committee to speculate on the circumstances of Mr Vilakazi’s death which Mr Davis raised. If the Committee is unaware “what has been agreed upon”, then it is unfair for the Committee to conduct oversight on the relationship between the shareholder and the company.

Mr Tseli said that on a number of occasions there have been various strategies to deal with television licences and licence fees. He referred to the decision to delink the process of television licences from the STB subsidy application process. He asked if this decision would impact on licence fees contributions.

Mr M Kalako (ANC) said that they have not yet met the new Board. He does not share the approach of the Democratic Alliance. Clarity was requested on the High Court judgement about appointments, as there is no guide on the separation of power, especially on the appointment between the Board and the Minister of the SABC executive.

Mr Kalako said that he supports the Minister on the clarity she has given as to why she decided to appeal the High Court ruling.

On the turnaround plans, he differs with the DA’s position that commercial information should be publicly disclosed. The SABC is in competition with other broadcasters, therefore not all information should be publicly disclosed. “We are very much interested in the stability of the SABC”.

Mr Kalako noted that the SABC said they had to sit with the unions to agree on a certain framework on the strike. However, there are even disagreements between unions on the way forward. The Board should take the Committee through the framework. Not because the Committee wants to get involved to solve labour disputes, but rather due to the fact that striking SABC employees are members of the public who should be given a hearing.

Mr Kalako said that Ms van Damme’s raised issues dealt with during the SABC board interviews of “us being members of the Board”. He does not know whether she thinks she is part of a SABC sub-branch. If Ms van Damme wants to know the systems of the ANC then she should join the ANC. The DA wants to create a picture that all ANC associated organisations or ANC affiliated organisations run by black people are “wrong” as deemed by the DA. The ANC must strongly resist the DA’s fabrications. The majority of people in South Africa associated with the ANC want Parliament to appoint employees. That is why the ANC gets “this many votes”. The DA’s approach of intimidating the SABC staff is wrong. The appearance of jealously guarding “the authority of the power of the Board and our role as Parliament” is not what is wanted. He supports the Ministry for clarifying why the High Court ruling was appealed.

The Chairperson said that the Minister is capable of handling everything. Clarity was requested on the SABC editorial policy.

The Minister responded to Mr Davis’s question on the death of Mr Vilakazi. The SABC has requested the assistance of law enforcement and she said that it is a very painful matter.

The Minister referred Ms van Damme to Section 9 of the Broadcasting Act. It stipulates that “we need to separate financials” and not disclose all commercial information to the public. Due to the lack of resources, the SABC is going to have to commit to compensation. She does not have the authority to amend the Act; otherwise “the Minister of Labour must come”.

She is not looking at wanting to appoint executives, but seeking concurrence. Ms van Damme seems to get a sense that the judgement was rushed, but the Minister said that there are issues there that they have to look at. When she presents to the Committee she is subjecting herself to oversight and accountability and she is an individual with her own intellectual capacity suitable to make her own decisions.

On the SABC turnaround, part of strategic leadership is to take things and apply one’s mind. The Minister said that the DA should not fiddle with the recruitment process as the process has not started, but the question of the candidates has become an issue. People are sitting in particular positions and the questioning of the appointment of executives is Ms van Damme wanting to compromise someone’s position. The appointment of the three executives would be brought to the Committee once the process is completed.

Mr Tseli said that Ms van Damme is not assisting the Committee.

Ms van Damme responded to Mr Tseli, saying that the Minister and the SABC executive are more than capable of speaking for themselves.

The Minister said that in terms of Parliament rules, she is the one who tables the SABC Board annual plans and the SABC Annual Performance Plan. To be fair, a question cannot be subjected to one member of the Board, but Committee questions should be directed to the whole Board. Ms Tugwana is not allowed to respond to Ms van Damme’s questions. If there are conflicts within the Board, then it would be brought to the Committee so that the necessary processes are followed. She has requested that if the SABC Board has conflict, it should be submitted through a declaration before the matter is brought to the Committee.

A collection strategy proposal has been requested of the DoC to address the paying of television licences. There are various countries that can be looked at for examples of collection strategies for television licences. There are almost 40 million households that have television licences. If all households paid for licences, then the SABC would be in a good financial standing. Senior citizens receive discounts, reducing the revenue collected. Even those who cannot afford licences, still need to have access to watch SABC as it is a vital platform to disseminate information.

Mr Makhathini replied that the SIU is a process that is being looked at, but he is not at liberty to disclose the information. Pressure has been placed on the SIU to produce the awaited report, but their work is critical for the SABC without compromising the quality. The SIU are working hard on the report. He asked that the process be respected by the Committee.

The death of Mr Vilakazi is a sensitive matter. Things should not be drawn out of proportion and he does not protect the Board. As a Board, they would be deliberating on the death and we have called psychologists to provide necessary support to employees.

He cannot come to the Committee and debate on matters related to trade unions, but there is a framework and there is a team set up by the Board to deal with the matter.

Ms Tugwana responded to the Chairperson’s question on the editorial policy. In Quarter 2, they visited three towns per province to collect information. The submissions are being reviewed, they will be reiterating the process and go back to the provinces to present the information given to them. Their target is that by February 2018, they will take the information to the Board for approval before it is announced, and then go to ICASA before April 2018 once the policies have been implemented.

Ms Tugwana replied that there are contingency plans in place in case of any labour action. On the extension of PSL rights, the Board would be responding on buying of rights. On television licences, what the Board has done in the short-term is to reverse some decisions and in the last months they have seen a healthy increase in the number of television licences. Ms Tugwana replied to the question of the bonus she received, saying that the SABC Board is clear that “they are here to present the financial statements”. The R800 000 bonus is not for this fiscal year. It is best for the CFO to elaborate on how the bonuses are arrived at.

Ms Tebogo Matabane, SABC CFO, said that the SABC has an incentive scheme aimed at incentivising managers, deputy managers and executives. Around 320 participants are evaluated in the incentive scheme. The bonus reflected there is from the 2014/15 FY which was a good financial period. After the excess amount of money is identified, bonuses are then calculated.

Ms Potgieter-Gqubule, SABC Board Deputy Chairperson, replied that the overall sense from the Q1 Report is that the SABC does face a serious crisis. At the handover and induction meeting for the new Board, the Board was very mindful that they are inheriting an organisation in crisis. A new committee was set up by the Board to oversee “new media” so that the executive can monitor what is being done. In response to the issue of commercial information, this raises the question of the public mandate. Engagement with the government has been requested on the matter of increasing the grant by 3%, but they need to be specific on what they need to do. On financial matters, they have to look at their expenses to see how they can be kept under control and how an institution can be built that is viable in the long term. In the context of the financial crisis, it is difficult to have wage negotiations. She emphasised that they need to look at how the SABC could remain a sustainable public broadcaster. There is a sense of urgency and deep-seated issues that need to be addressed. More meetings are needed with the Committee to provide detail on the turnaround strategy.

In response to Ms van Damme’s question on whether she would accept her nomination to be on the ANC NEC, she would prefer the Chairperson to tell her whether she should answer the question or not.

The Chairperson responded that “they would not go to personal questions”.

Ms van Damme said that she wants to make it clear that she will not be patronised. Mr Davis and she are not members of the ANC and will not be dictated to on what questions should be asked as they would do their job without fear and favour. Interests of the SABC and the Committee are different. As members of the Committee they have to conduct oversight and demand answers, but perhaps the interests are different and “maybe the interests are to recapture the SABC”. She is disappointed that Ms Potgieter did not answer the question on whether she would accept her nomination to join the ANC NEC and it speaks to the core of the problem at the SABC. It is not true that the selection of SABC executives is not competitive enough. The reason the SABC is in the problem it is in is due to cadre deployment, corruption and due to unqualified people being appointed to positions. The SABC has a 75% share in the radio market and she described it as “ludicrous” to suggest that the SABC is not competitive enough as it currently is a monopoly. The SABC Board does not report to the Minister, but reports to the National Assembly. The Board should read the Broadcasting Act. The Board does not need to be pressured and intimidated by the Minister. On asking the question of the appointment of the top three executives of the SABC, the Minister does not like the candidates nominated by the interim Board. She asked the Chairperson where they would go from here.

Mr Davis said that it was fascinating that the Minister took it upon herself to give a progress report on the appointment of the three executives, considering that the High Court has ruled that she has no legal role to play in the appointment. The Chairperson needs to demonstrate that the SABC Board has not been captured by the Minister. Independence should be demonstrated.

Mr Tseli said that there are no issues to be responded to at this stage and he requested that the meeting be adjourned.

Mr Kalako said that as the ANC they are not interested in telling people what to do and how to think, especially members of other parties. The DA is trying to destabilise the SABC. If the DA thinks they can come and bulldoze the ANC, the DA must forget about it. The DA wants to create a state of lawlessness. The DA’s energy should be saved for 2019.

Ms Matshoba said that the DA must be ignored. There are a lot of cases where you cannot take them seriously as the DA still holds an apartheid mentality.

The Chairperson said the Board is doing excellent work. There have been advertisements for positions for the executive, but not all have been appointed. She recalled that after Parliament called for nominations for a permanent SABC Board, then the due selection process was undertaken to select who is and who is not favourable to “come back to the Board”. Certain individuals selected were not favoured by certain Committee members. It is not fair because during the interim Board all of us were saying that excellent work has been done. Now at the end of the interim Board, fingers are being pointed. There is an 11 member Board that has now been put in place and the interim Board had fewer members. This Board is the one that the majority of those in the National Assembly said that the President must be able to appoint.

Ms van Damme said that Mr Davis and herself had asked clear questions on the appointment of executives and that they cannot be silenced by three members of the majority party.

Mr Tseli said that Ms van Damme is directing questions at the wrong people.

Mr Davis said that he asked a simple question as the Board and the Ministry are separate. He repeated his question on whether the Board would remain independent.

The Chairperson said that he has ruled that the Board is not going to answer that.

Mr Davis said that the Chairperson and the Minister do not have the right to stop the Board from speaking. The Board cannot be closed down.

The Chairperson asked if Mr Davis “was done”.

Mr Davis interjected and said he would like to ask the question again.

The Chairperson then interjected and asked Mr Davis again if he is done posing the question.

Mr Davis said he has posed the question and wants an answer.

The Chairperson ignored the request and said that Committee should go on to the next agenda item.

The Committee adopted the minutes of the previous meetings.

The meeting was adjourned.