SABC Board: interviews day 1

Meeting report

Opening Remarks
The Chairperson reminded the Committee that as the Curriculum Vitae (CV’s) of the shortlisted candidates were on the website of the Committee for comments, comments had been received from the public about the candidates which would appear before the Committee. The comments would be read to the Committee by the support staff.

Ms P Van Damme (DA) asked whether the Committee would only be allowed the oral presentation of the comments or they would be supplied with documents.

The Chairperson asked support staff whether the documents had been compiled as the public had been allowed to comment until 29 August.
           
Mr Mbombo Maleka, Content Advisor, replied in the affirmative noting that the oral presentation was a broad overview but the documents would be circulated.

Ms Van Damme insisted that she preferred to have a document before to read as a presentation seemed wasteful without documents.

The Chairperson asked Ms Van Damme if she preferred the Committee to start with the interviews as it awaited circulation of the comments documents.

Mr M Kalako (ANC) agreed with Ms Van Damme that the hard copies be circulated before the interviews.

The Chairperson reminded the Committee that there were 12 interviews from which the support staff had had up until the previous night to coalesce comments about the 12 candidates.  He proposed that the oral presentation of the comments be allowed as they were being circulated.

Mr R Tseli (ANC) agreed with the Chairperson.

Mr Maleka reported that of the 12 candidates that would be interviewed on the day only two had received public comments. The first had been Mr Dinkwanyane Mohuba who had received endorsements mostly for his nomination to the board. Second had been Mr Bongumusa Makhathini, 12 public comments, most of which were endorsing his nomination.

Amongst the submissions received only one public comment did not support the outgoing interim SABC board.

The Chairperson asked the Content Advisor to read the negative comments about the two candidates which were to be interviewed on the day.

The Content Advisor reiterated that the comments had actually been endorsements of the two candidates.

The Chairperson detailed the procedure for the interview noting that each member would be allowed five minutes to pose all their questions to each candidate as the calculation was that each interview had to last between 45-60 minutes.

Mr W Madisha (COPE) agreed with the Chairperson but the challenge arose when a candidate used the five allocated minutes to answer only two questions from a particular Member. What happened when the said Committee Member wanted to follow-up his earlier questions?  

The Chairperson said he would manage time allocated for question and responses from candidates.

Mr M Gungubele (ANC) said it would prudent for the Chairperson to advise candidates that the five minutes which would be given members to interact with candidates were for the interaction to exhaust everything each member wanted to know about the candidate; therefore, candidates had to be precise in their answers.
 
Questions posed by the Committee to the SABC Board Candidates

Ms Leanne Govindsamy
Mr Gungubele asked how Ms Govindsamy understood the editorial policy of the SABC. He wanted her to also share what she understood about the governance imperatives at the SABC as prescribed for board members in the Charter.
What was the significance of fiduciary duties?

Mr Kalako asked Ms Govindsamy to mention the overall Acts apart from the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA) that governed the operations of the SABC.
Which amongst those laws superseded the others in the governance of the SABC?
What codes were used in the operations of the SABC which were similar to those used in Government and there were also governance documents that governed the relations between the Minister, the board and the executive including a particular framework.

Assuming that Ms Govindsamy had been following what had been unfolding at the SABC regarding irregular and wasteful expenditure, which Act governed how the Executive could intervene and avoid wasteful expenditure and what were the penalties when the Executive failed?


Ms N Tolashe (ANC) asked how Ms Govindsamy would introduce a turnaround strategy having familiarised herself with the recommendations of the ad hoc Committee investigating the fitness of the SABC board report. Why would she be best placed to do that work?

She asked whether Ms Govindsamy could specify her Supply Chain Management (SCM) strength as the SABC had a backlog in that regard.


Ms Van Damme asked why Ms Govindsamy had chosen the SABC board without any board experience to start amassing experience from there, seeing that the SABC remained in a very strained state.  What would Ms Govindsamy change in the SABC editorial policy to improve how the SABC did its work?
Mr G Davis (DA) asked what Ms Govindsamy’s views were around freedom of the press as there were prevailing views that print media was biased against the Government, as it always reported on corruption. Did she agree that it was the role of the SABC to compensate for Government against that negative reporting by print media?

The SABC was a creature of statute governed by the Broadcasting and the Companies Acts respectively; which law in her view superseded the other between the two laws?

Had she been part of the SABC board when the Public Protector (PP) had that Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng had lied about his qualifications, artificially inflated his salary, bullied and intimidated journalist and other staffers at the SABC; what would she have done as a board member, how would she have stood up to a Minister who had refused to act on the recommendations of the PP’s.


Mr Madisha said though Mr Govindsamy was legally experienced he had not heard her speak to the required media expertise except when she noted that she had represented media labour dispute and asked her to elaborate on that.
The Broadcasting Act section 13 (4) (2b) required that a board candidate have media experience.

What was her understanding of the role of the board of the SABC?
 
The Chairperson asked what the best model would be for collection of revenue for the SABC.
In the advent of Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) what would be the role of the public broadcaster in that regard?

Mr Tseli wanted to know what Ms Govindsamy thought should be the relationship between the SABC and the Broadcasting Regulator.  How would she improve the current state of affairs between the regulator and the SABC?

What type of funding model did Ms Govindsamy think the Regulator and the SABC had to use, and how would she ensure that that type of model could be realised?

If appointed a board member what would she do differently that would avoid another board dissolution of the SABC by Parliament?


Ms M Matshoba (ANC) asked what would be the first thing Ms Govindsamy would do if appointed to the board of the SABC.
What five things would she do to revive the SABC’s image?

The Chairperson asked what amendments Ms Govindsamy would make to the Broadcasting Amendment Bill.

Ms Govindsamy wanted to know how the advisory Committee was set-up and whether its advice filtered through to the SABC board.

Refer to audio for responses


Mr Dzuguda Rufus Kharidza

Mr Gungubele asked what legal complexities Mr Kharidza had faced as a former board Chairperson? Had the shareholder of the company on whose board he served as Chairperson been Government?

What had he achieved as a board Chairperson?


Mr Kalako said he assumed that Mr Kharidza knew the SABC board Charter as it outlined roles and responsibilities of the board and the shareholder; he wanted to know how Mr Kharidza understood the powers of the board especially in a crisis situation at the SABC.

As he had said he had been a public relations director at the University of Venda (UniVenda); there had been allegations made against Mr Kharidza concerning funding and bursary management. He had been accused of channelling National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) money to relatives; could he clarify the matter to the Committee.    

Mr Tseli asked what Mr Kharidza saw himself doing differently to avoid dissolution of the SABC board, if he were to be appointed a board member.
    
He wanted to know what Mr Kharidza thought should be the relationship between SABC and the Broadcasting Regulator.  How would he improve the current state of affairs between the Regulator and the SABC?

Ms Van Damme asked why Mr Kharidza wanted to be part of the SABC board when he already served on eight boards and was director to several companies; where would he find the time.

What role did Mr Kharidza play at Central Lake Trading?

Was Central Lake Trading the same company trading as Empire Technologies?

When he was a councillor in Vhembe which political party had Ms Kharidza represented in that district municipality.

Mr Davis said that Mr Kharidza currently was a director of Kharidza communications; as an SABC board member he would be part of a leadership of a broadcaster with unparalleled reach in SA, did he think being part of that board and a director of a communications company constituted any conflict of interest? How would Mr Kharidza manage such conflict of interest if it arose?  

The Broadcast Complaints Commission SA (BCCSA) was tasked with investigating complaints against broadcasters including the SABC; as a BCCSA commissioner would Mr Kharidza resign as a commissioner if appointed to the SABC board?

Price Waterhouse Coopers had found that Mr Kharidza had indeed channelled about R70 000 of donor funds to his daughter whilst communications head at the UniVenda. Could he clarify to the Committee whether that had happened or not and why had he resigned from his position there before UniVenda could conduct a hearing into the allegations?

Mr Madisha said that Mr Kharidza would agree that integrity was a paramount feature of a board member however, in his assessment there was a challenge with integrity concerning the allegations against Mr Kharidza. Could Mr Kharidza respond to that assessment by Mr Madisha?

Ms Van Damme asked whether if a situation arose where Mr Kharidza would be asked by the ruling party to ensure that particular things happened at the SABC how would he react to that political instruction.

Ms Matshoba said that in the conduct policy of the SABC board, board members were expected to act ethically and with integrity; could Mr Kharidza convince the Committee that he was amongst the best candidates for board appointment of the SABC.
What were the board responsibilities at the SABC? 
 
Ms Tolashe asked how Mr Kharidza would ensure that the recommendations of the ad hoc Committee report on the fitness of the SABC board would be implemented. Could he reflect on the laws which established the appointment of the SABC Board?

As Mr Kharidza had explained the events around the allegations of malfeasance at UniVenda and how he had exited his position there, did he think that spoke well for him in terms of integrity to lead an institution such as the SABC?


Mr Gungubele said that understanding the legal frameworks around the SABC and the problems Parliament had faced in trying to fix the challenges and eventually dissolving the board at the SABC; how did that assist Mr Kharidza’s situation in getting appointed a board member? Had he channelled money into his daughter’s account?

The Chairperson asked whether Mr Kharidza agreed that the process of the review of the SABC editorial policies was participatory and fair to date.

Refer to audio for responses


Mr Michael Sass
Mr Kalako asked Mr Sass to list the legislative framework governing the SABC and the various codes which also ensured proper governance and operations at the broadcaster. Could he also delimit the internal arrangements as laid out in particular documents which helped the SABC to operate?

What position did Mr Sass hold while he was at National Treasury (NT) and was he aware of a company called Bits Technologies which had been trading as Abacus Advisory; which was alleged to have lucrative contracts with NT. It was alleged that a managing partner in that company had consulted for the former director-general of NT Mr Andile Lungisa.  Furthermore, Abacus Advisory had from that relationship received a lucrative NT contract; could Mr Sass elaborate on his involvement with such transactions.

Ms Matshoba said boards had four primary responsibilities two of which were to project and develop national and international strategies and direction respectively. What remaining two were outstanding from her list?  If Mr Sass were to be appointed to the SABC board would he be able to breach the gap between staff and the board and reach out to the staff.

Ms Van Damme asked what Mr Sass thought he would bring to the SABC board?
Why had Mr Sass worked at NT for such a short period and what were the reasons for his exit?
How would Mr Sass’s audit and finance experience assist the SABC’s finances and revenue?

Mr Davis said that Mr Sass’s curriculum vitae had stated that he had a close working relationship with most senior Government officials. There was a perception that many of the problems at the SABC had stemmed from close working relationships between board members of the SABC and Government officials. What was his response to that? Did he agree to the notion that the new SABC board had to be independent from Government and its officials?
During his tenure at NT had Mr Sass ever come across any evidence of state capture?  What would Mr Sass do if appointed to ensure that the SABC was protected from state capture in future?
Could Mr Sass elaborate what cost containment measures he would put in place whilst ensuring that the SABC’s public service mandate was not compromised?  

Mr Madisha said from his view it was important to juxtapose integrity with trust especially in the realm that the SABC found itself in to date. Since integrity of any of the candidates was important and that Mr Sass had been involved in the Integrated Financial Management System (IFMS) as he had looked into the upgrade of the IFMS at NT; could Mr Sass situate the controversy that had surrounded that upgrade?   
Could Mr Sass describe the relationships between the board, the shareholder and the SABC management?

Ms Tolashe asked Mr Sass to elaborate on the governance framework at the SABC. How would Mr Sass develop a turnaround strategy for the implementation of the recommendations of the ad hoc Committee on the fitness of the SABC board report?   

Mr Tseli asked Mr Sass to share his view about the relationship between the Regulator and the SABC and what the current status of that relationship was. If he were to be appointed to the Board how would Mr Sass improve relations between the regulator and the SABC?


Mr Gungubele said he had expected that having been at NT Mr Sass would have discussed everything he knew about the internal affairs of the SABC including its leadership deficits. Additionally, from the core deliverables, all product services shared features with lines of accountability and independence. There was also a point that the role of the shareholder was to describe and articulate the roles of the directors of the board in a compact. The shareholder had to therefore consider conflicts of interests between the shareholder as Government and regulator and the shareholders responsibility to the SABC on the other hand.

Mr Kalako asked whether Mr Sass had worked for JCI around the same time Mr Brett Kebble had worked for the same company.

Ms Van Damme asked whether Mr Sass had proposed that licence fees for television be scrapped completely and would he agree to pay an SABC licence fee?
 
The Chairperson asked that in the advent of Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) what would be the role of the public broadcaster in that regard. Could Mr Sass elaborate a bit on why he felt television licences were not the best model for revenue generation and what alternative would Mr Sass propose instead of television licences?

Mr Sass asked whether the Committee would back the SABC board from time to time on matters of performance and the relationship between the board, the SABC management and the shareholder.

Refer to audio for responses

Ms Louise Carole Vale
Ms Tolashe asked what turnaround strategy Ms Vale would bring to the SABC as a board member considering her expertise as she had outlined. Which other board was Ms Vale serving in the media sector?

Mr Tseli asked what Ms Vale saw herself doing differently; to avoid SABC board dissolution.  What had been Ms Vale view about the relationship between the SABC and the Broadcasting Regulator; the current state of affairs and if appointed to the board, how would she improve the relationship?
What mechanisms would Ms Vale put in place to ensure that the SABC’s funding model was realised.

The Chairperson asked whether Ms Vale had thought of an alternative revenue raising model apart from collecting television licence fees.

Ms Matshoba said the Committee had been briefed the previous day by the Media Development and Diversity Agency (MDDA) of which Ms Vale was a board member of. Did Ms Vale have conflict resolution experience, especially regarding staff morale and productivity? Could Ms Vale elaborate a bit of on that expertise?

Ms Van Damme said there had been a revolving door of staff turnover at the MDDA throughout Ms Vale’s board membership there; what had been the reason for that.

Had the MDDA done its work accordingly to date? Did Ms Vale commend the conduct of the MDDA at Parliament the previous day when it came before the Committee?

Was the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the MDDA in the wrong to have given their view on the operations of the MDDA?
 
The Chairperson pleaded with the Committee to avoid dealing with the previous day’s MDDA report as the Committee would still deliberate on that matter. 

Ms Van Damme asked what Ms Vale understood about executive versus non-executive members of the board when it applied to the SABC.

Mr Davis said the SABC had asked for a bail out of R2 billion; what did Ms Vale think was at the heart of that financial crisis? What would she do differently to ensure the financial sustainability of the SABC?

There had been complexities in the legal framework around the SABC with some people pointing to the Companies Act and others the Broadcasting Act as establishing the SABC; if there had been a conflict between the two Acts as it had happened previously, which Act did Ms Vale think superseded the other and why did she think so?
 
If Ms Vale had been a board member at the time of the Public Protector (PPs) report into Mr Motsoeneng’s various misdemeanours and fraud, what would Ms Vale have done as a board member and how would she have stood up to the Minister of Communications when she tried to prevent the PPs recommendations from being implemented by the board.

Mr Madisha said Ms Vale was aware that there had been non-compliance with laws, gross mismanagement and rampant political interference at the SABC all committed in the period of the previous board, as a prospective board member how would she propose to avoid a similar situation moving forward?

Ms Vale would recognise that maladministration at the SABC had not been occurring for the first time what would she do, if similar events resurfaced at the SABC?

Mr Gungubele said with all the sense of governance deficits that had led the SABC to where it was; did Ms Vale think it was a matter of the people that had been there not knowing how to run the SABC or was it deliberate fraud? What factors did Ms Vale think threatened the SABC’s sustainability?

The boards Charter enjoined the shareholder to take responsibility of ascribing functions of the board members and directors. In doing so the shareholder also had to manage the conflict which was dialectical between the shareholder being a regulator from Government and the shareholder being a shareholder of the SABC which had to have autonomy.

The Chairperson said the SABC staff morale had been quite low when the Committee had visited Auckland park. That was a responsibility of the Executive but the board had to play a bigger role. The appointment of the interim board had changed things a bit and building on that what contribution would Ms Vale bring to the new board to ensure that workers morale was always up

He asked whether Ms Vale agreed that the process of the review of the SABC editorial policy was participatory and fair to date.

What input would Ms Vale have in the Amendment of the Broadcasting Bill if she were given a chance to make a submission? What areas would she focus on mainly?

Refer to audio for responses

Bongumusa Emmanuel Makhathini
Mr Kalako asked what governance frameworks governed the broadcasting sector broadly and the SABC in particular? Given what Mr Makhathini knew about the board of the SABC which had been dissolved because corruption and flouting of regulations, what would Mr Makhathini do differently to ensure long term sustainability of the SABC?

What sections of the Constitution dealt with broadcasting and how that had to be regulated. What were the provisions of the PFMA that related to the SABC and the corporate governance codes according to King III? What did Mr Makhathini understand about other complimentary documents including the board Charter and Memorandum of Incorporation (MoI) of the SABC and what roles they ascribed to the stakeholders at the SABC?

What was Mr Makhathini’s understanding about the relationship between the Minister and the SABC Board? Were they supposed to impose upon each other or was the board there to carry out Ministerial directives only?

Mr Tseli asked what mechanisms Mr Makhathini would put in place to ensure the funding models of the SABC and the regulator were realised.  What did Mr Makhathini think had to be the relationship between SABC and the Broadcasting Regulator?  How would he improve the current state of affairs between the Regulator and the SABC?
What did Mr Makhathini understand about DTT and what did that mean for the SABC?
 

Ms Tolashe asked Mr Makhathini to speak to the media sector in so far as the legislation that governed broadcasting. Could Mr Makhathini propose a turnaround strategy for the SABC knowing what he knew about the problems of SABC?

The Chairperson noted that the broadcasting Act was under amendment processes; what areas did Mr Makhathini think he would want to make submissions on?

Ms Matshoba asked, from Mr Makhathini’s wealth of experience, how long would he need to ensure that the SABC was financially stable? An excerpt from the SABC policy was to cater to all citizens and to not identify people by ethnicity or colour only, what did that mean for Mr Makhathini if he were to be appointed to the board.     
What did Mr Makhathini make of the provision for the SABC to service the disabled as well.

Mr Gungubele asked Mr Makhathini to share a few examples of his successes in terms of his expertise.
In terms of editorial independence and the Charter saying the shareholder, who was the Minister in that case was enjoined to articulate the roles of the directors of the board and board members in a compact. The shareholder had to also consider conflicts of interests between the shareholder as Government and regulator, and the shareholder’s responsibility to the SABC on the other hand. What would be Mr Makhathini’s input and understanding in that regard?

Ms Van Damme asked when Mr Makhathini had been appointed to the Bongi Ngema-Zuma Foundation (BNZ) board; how he had been appointed and how had the process of appointment occurred.

It had been reported in 2014 that the BNZ board had not submitted audit financial statements since March 2012, was that still the case or had financial management been put in place since?

Ms Van Damme noted that Mr Makhathini had been nominated by a Mr Mphumezi Maphasa of Mountain Top production, a company that conducted business with the SABC. What was Mr Makhathini’s relationship with Mr Maphasa?

Mr Davis asked if Mr Makhathini’s tenure at the BNZ was not a conflict of interest given the BNZ’s patrons proximity to the President of the Republic. Would Mr Makhathini be prepared to resign from the BNZ if he were appointed to the SABC board?

Would not being lobbyist for British American Tobacco (BTA) not constitute a conflict of interest given the huge influence the SABC had on behaviour? How would Mr Makhathini manage such a conflict of interest?
How did Mr Makhathini propose the SABC to focus more on its commercial side whilst also focusing on its public service mandate?

Mr Madisha said SA democracy was still young, therefore those appointed to the SABC board had to be committed to fairness, freedom of expression and fight for the public to be properly informed. Would Mr Makhathini be able to do that? Could Mr Makhathini demonstrate that he understood the governing frameworks of broadcasting?

Ms Van Damme asked whether Mr Makhathini had met the President of the Republic and what kind of relationship did he have with the patron of the BNZ?

Had Mr Makhathini discussed with Ms Ngema-Zuma his application to be appointed to the SABC board?

Mr Gungubele reiterated that his question of examples of successes that Mr Makhathini had achieved in his career had not been answered and he wanted responses to that.

Could Mr Makhathini speak to the primacy of nation building vies-a-vie the role of the SABC?

Mr Makhathini said that the amendments to the broadcasting Act had been brought about during a time of confusion and political interference from the Minister’s side at the SABC; he wanted to know the progress to that process.

The Chairperson replied that the Committee was still busy with that work.

Refer to audio for responses

Mr Tshifhiwa Chris Khorommbi
The Chairperson asked Mr Khorommbi to tell the Committee about himself, to furnish the Committee with his work experience, and whether there was a conflict of interests. He said that each member had five minutes to ask questions and that those five minutes included his answers.
 
Mr Tseli asked whether he was at the time an employee of SABC. As an employee of SABC, did he see himself resolving the current problems?
He was sure that he was aware that that was not the first time the SABC Board was dissolved and asked what he would do to ensure that the SABC was not dissolved again.
How did he see improving the current affairs of the relationship between the SABC and the ICASA (Regulator)? What does digital migration mean to the SABC?

Mr Madisha said he would ask questions at later stage.

Ms Matshoba said he did not have a question to ask.

Ms Van Damme asked what his views on the Broadcasting Amendment Bill were.

Mr Davis had two questions. Referring to his current employment, he asked whether he was prepared to resign. When he said that he would resign, Mr Davis asked him to state categorically that he would resign. He remarked that he could not be on the Board and, at the same time, remain an employee of SABC.
Referring to his experience with the SABC staff, he asked what his personal experience as an employee of the SABC was. Had he ever been bullied or intimidated? What would he do as a member for the SABC to move away from the bullying culture? What were the responsibilities of the members of the Board?

The Chairperson asked whether he was implying that he would resign after appointment as a member. He said the Broadcasting Act was very clear on aspects of disclosure and asked whether he was familiar with that provision. He asked what those aspects of disclosure were.
 
Ms Tolashe asked him to take the Committee through the South African broadcasting system on basis of his own understanding. What did he understand the issue of the Board was? Did he understand that a cleaner ought to be a woman?  What was his take on 90/10 local music initiative?

Ms Matshoba commented that the SABC had many entities and asked which he should utilise to reach the youth?  Was here aware of those entities?

Mr Madisha remarked that he went through his CV and wanted to hear questions from Members relating to the CV so that he could ask questions from there. He asked whether he was implying that he was not aware that people stood up and said that they did not want to be bullied. Should he be appointed as a member of the Board, would he be able to deal with issues of bullying and intimidation? In stating that he was not aware of bullying incidents, was he implying that there was no bulling at SABC or that in actual fact the bullying or intimidation did not affect him.

Mr Gungubele asked to elaborate on the objectives of the Broadcasting Act and governance imperatives as contemplated in the Board Charter.

Mr Kalako said he had no questions.

Mr Tseli stated that the financial statement had not been good and it had been argued that this financial situation was due to the unfunded mandate. What contribution would he give in order to ensure that its mandate had been funded?

Refer to audio for responses


Mr Dinkwanyane Kgalema Mohuba
The Chairperson asked Mr Mohuba to speak about himself; tell the Committee why he was interested in the position, and whether there was a conflict of interest.  He referred to section 17 of the Broadcasting Act dealing with disclosure and asked whether he was familiar with issues raised under the said section. He asked whether there was any family member who was an employee of the SABC. He noted that the Broadcasting Act was in the process of being amended and asked what inputs he could contribute towards the development of the Act?

Mr Kalako said he hoped that he followed an inquiry into the SABC around the floating of the broadcasting framework, including the Board charter. They also tried to temper with the Memorandum of Incorporation. How did these frameworks regulate the relationships between the SABC Board and Executive Directors and between the SABC Board and ICASA (the Regulator)? He had looked at his CV. With his qualifications and experiences, how would he contribute towards avoiding the dissolution of the SABC Board? So far, three to four Boards had been dissolved because they were not following the legislation, internal regulation and other legal documents.

Mr Gungubele said he should share with the Committee one achievement. The Broadcasting Act was a document establishing and regulating the SABC. The Board Charter stated how the shareholders should manage their conflict. He asked to talk about key objectives of the Broadcast Act and independence of editorial policy.

Ms Van Damme stated she looked at his CV, which showed that he was very experienced and asked what made him feel that he was suitable for this position. What could unique idea might he bring on board to improve the performance of the SABC. Why was he nominated by the University of the Limpopo? Who were these people?

Mr Davis said news that had been circulating in the Newspaper and that that was a good opportunity to state his own story. There was news in the Mail and Guardian in 2012 that implicated him in awarding the contact. There was also the investigation conducted by the Public Protector. What was his view on that?
What kind of relationship did he have with Premier of Limpopo, Mr Stanley Mathabatha. It was alleged in the newspaper that he had business with the Premier. It has been reported that he was persuaded to consider this position.

Mr Madisha noted that the Board was involved in corruption and mismanagement and experienced political interference. How would he manage the situation in which different political parties interfered with the Board? How would he solve the problem of the SABC management taking money to fund another TV?

Mr Ndlozi commented that we were living in the state of serious poverty of integrity because some people were engaging in conduct that would lead to questioning their integrity. He asked what his relationship with the Premier Mathabatha was in relation to that questionable conference which was funded by money of poor students. What did he think about actions of the Zuma administration in the SABC?

Mr Tseli said the reason why the SABC was battling with finances was arguably due to its unfunded mandate and asked what he would do to deal with that challenge? In his view, how did he understand the relationship between the SABC and ICASA and how did he see himself improving this state of affairs? What did digital migration mean to the SABC?

Ms Tolashe asked that, given the situation in which the SABC was, what would his contribution be to improve the functionality of the Board?

Mr Davis said he had stated that there was no business interest between him and the Premier and asked to clarify whether he did write 52 pages to respond to this problem. Due to malicious conduct, why did he not take steps to resign?

Mr Madisha commented that the relationship with the Board and shareholders had been creating problems and asked how he would deal with this problem?

Mr Ndlozi commented that he agreed earlier that there was an investigation of the Public Protector in which he was implicated and asked what were the findings of the investigation.

Mr Tseli said that there was an on-going debate which suggested that the role and power of the executive directors and the Board needed to be reviewed and asked what his take on that was.
 
Refer to audio for responses

Ms Rene Seipati Khumalo
The Chairperson said she had five minutes to tell the Committee about herself, including work experience. And if she was one of the members of the Board, why was she interested in being a member of the SABC Board? She was asked to state whether there was a conflict of interests that might compromise her work. She was advised that she would give answers to the Chairperson’s questions in five minutes and each member would pose questions. Questions and answers would take five minutes. This implied that if a member took four minutes to ask questions, she would just have one minute to answer those questions. Members should refrain to be unfair to her.

After talking about herself, the Chairperson asked whether she understood section 17 the Broadcasting Act. He said that section 17 dealt with disclosure and thus asked whether Ms Khumalo was familiar with the provision. What did section 17 convey? What aspects did she think would be amended in terms of the Broadcasting Act? What would be her contribution to improve the Act? He further asked if she thought that the SABC was important institution in the country and why?

Mr Gungubele asked to share with the Committee the primary objectives of the Broadcasting Act and governance imperatives that are found expression in the Board Charter and what were her views on independency of the editorial policy.

Mr Kalako based questions on what Ms Khumalo alluded to earlier. He asked her to mention those changes that were needed to improve the Act and what changed she could bring for successfulness of the Board?

Ms Tolashe asked to give the background of the governance of the SABC with reference to the interference and state her own understanding of governance and the ICASA’s role in the governance.

Ms Van Damme said that Ms Khumalo worked as senior producer at ANN 7 and asked how she could define the ANN7 work and if one could interfere with her work, what could she do? Could she object? How would she deal with that interference?  If she were saying that she had never experienced interference, did she not witness interference, at least?  Why did she move to ANN7? Was it not editorial policy that caused her to move to ANN7? She was asking these questions because the SABC Board was experiencing political interference.

Mr Davis commented that it required courage to be a member of SABC because the SABC was characterised by bullying and intimidation and asked whether she had the courage to be a member. Was she prepared to stand up against the Minister? What did she experience at ANN7 and what was happening there?
Referring to the Broadcasting Act and the Companies Act, he asked which Act could trump on the other. 

Mr Ndlozi asked: What is Sentech?
What is the DDT?
How does the DSTV relate to the SABC? Why do we have SABC channels on DSTV?
What were her views on the Broadcasting Amendment Bill?
Was she seeking to join the Board because she was bold? Was it on basis of her boldness that she would understand and deal with the challenges faced by the SABC?


Mr Madisha asked to be given her true understanding of the role of the Board and what she would do if she became a member of the Board. Her understanding of the role of the Board would help her to respond to the following questions:
Did she think she had a capacity to actualise the Act requirements for the functioning of the Board?
Referring to the ANN7, he said that there was a question of money. Did she understand the issue of money that were taken from SABC to the ANN7? If she did know anything, she should respond. If she knew nothing, she should not respond. And if she knew, she should tell what she knew.


Mr Tseli asked to provide the process of appointing members of the Board. He commented that there was a debate going on suggesting that the power of executive directors, i.e. CEO, COO and CFO should be reviewed and asked what her view on that was. Did she agree with the review of the power? Did she think the review of the power would assist in addressing the existing situation?


Ms Matshoba remarked that the SABC was faced with the huge challenges and asked what those huge challenges were. She further commented that there were several programmes of the SABC and asked which critical programme that was failing the South African youth? Did she think that youth should become members of the SABC Board or the involvement of the youth would collapse the SABC or would make it work better?

Refer to audio for responses

Mr Jack Howard Phalane
The Chairperson said that he had five minutes to tell the Committee about himself, why he wanted to become a member of the Board, and whether there was a conflict of interests. He noted that each member would be asking questions. However, questions and answers would take five minutes.

After answering the above questions, the Chairperson commented that the conflict of interest was legislated in the context of disclosure under section 17 of the Broadcasting Act and asked whether he knew what that section said. He asked if he was aware of the fact that the Committee was under the process of amending the Broadcasting Act and asked which areas he thought should be amended? What were issues of his interests in the Act?

Mr Kalako asked which other Acts in addition to the Broadcasting Act were regulating the SABC. There were basic documents that defined the relationship between the Minister and the Board and asked what those documents were. What were those documents that defined the governance of the SABC?

Ms Van Damme said she was impressed with his CV, which illustrate that he had a high experience, including having experience in the fields of telecommunications and broadcasting law. She therefore asked what Mr Phalane could do to contribute to improving the functioning the SABC? Which areas in the Broadcasting Act would he change to improve the functioning of the SABC? Which Act that trumps on other between the Company Act and Broadcasting Act? Was he a director in the Company called “African Crest Resources”?  What were other directors of the Company?

Mr Ndlozi said that the Committee wanted to hear and be convinced that he understood the broadcasting industry, especially, key challenges. He would be asking questions to ascertain this. In the age of industrial revolution, what were challenges that the broadcasting industry faced? When individuals did not understand the challenges that the industry was facing, that was when the politicians could interfere. The Committee would like to hear how he would act if the SABC was challenged issues created by politicians. He should also state the best ways to improve the functioning of the SABC.

Mr Mantashe remarked that the SABC was marred with corruption, mismanagement and political interference, which led to disbanding the SABC Board. He therefore asked that if he had to get in the Board, what would he do to improve on the said aspects? What were those experiences, expertise and attributes that make him to be suitable for being a member of the Board?  What was he planning to do to restore the SABC good image?

Mr Tseli remarked that there was debate going on which suggested that the role and power of executive directors should be reviewed and asked what was his take on that?

Ms Tolashe said that a decision was taken for the Board to be dissolved. There was an interim Board. She asked what would be his attitudes if he was appointed as a member of the Board. She further asked him to speak about what his understanding wa of digital migration

Mr Gungubele said that the Broadcasting Act set out clear objectives and asked whether they could be elaborated on in the context of governance of the SABC. He asked to elaborate further on the governance imperatives as they find expression in the Board Charter and to talk about editorial independency of the SABC.  He asked his view of the question of the government dictating what should be reported on by the SABC. What did the documents say about the editorial independency?


Mr Davis indicated that he would ask the three questions. Firstly, he asked the distinction between the state broadcaster and the public broadcaster. Secondly, he remarked that the members of the Board were non-executive. Drawing on past experience of the Board and executive directors, the relationship had been inverted. Why such relationship had been inverted? What would he do to rectify the balance to ensure that the executive directors reported on the Board? Thirdly, referring to his masters in telecommunication law, he asked why he chose that branch of law.

Refer to audio for responses

Mr Jim Matsho
The Chairperson asked Mr Matsho to tell the Committee why he was interested in the post and to talk about his work experience and any issues around the conflict of interest. All this should be talked about within five minutes. Each member would ask questions that would be asked and answered within five minutes.

Mr Gungubele asked if he could share with the Committee key challenging facing the SABC.
 What were objectives of the SABC as they found expression in the Broadcasting Act?
What were the governance imperatives as they were found expression in the Board Charter?

Mr Tseli said he had looked at his CV and saw that he had served as the executive director of Duduzane Consulting CC and asked how he would work if appointed as a member of the SABC Board? He said that there was an ongoing debate which suggested that the role and power of executive of directors should be reviewed and asked what was his view on that? He finally asked what he understood about the digital migration.

Mr Kalako asked whether he was aware of the authority framework and; if he did, could he take the Committee through what such framework did entail? What how such framework related to the Board Charter?

Ms Tolashe asked to convince the Committee on how he would deal with the challenges that the SABC was facing and talk about his understanding of the digital migration in a convincing manner.

Ms Matshoba said she did not have many questions. She went through his CV and find that he had enormous skills. She asked to define the new generation and how he could convince them to act in accordance with the law. How would he send that message out there? Did he understand what the Broadcasting Act entail? If yes, what did he think could be amended to make the SABC stronger?

Ms Van Damme said that he had a very impressive CV and commented that the Committee was looking for people with fresh ideas on improvement and sustainability of the SABC. What ideas would, in that respect, bring on board?

Mr Davis said he had a great CV, which illustrated that he had served in many boards. However, there was no indication that he had served in the broadcast industry or interested in it. Could he tell the Committee why did he think it should recommend him to be part of the SABC Board? Could he convince the Committee why it should recommend him?

Mr Ndlozi remarked that moving to digital migration was subject to installation of boxes and forcing viewers to pay. Essentially, the SABC was free to air. How the SABC would make money and how would it force people to pay if its broadcasting services was supposedly to be free. Even if one did not pay, he could still receive services from the SABC whereas one could not get such services if he/she did not pay the e-TV. A free-to-air-broadcast service was defined as the public broadcaster. What would be his idea behind improving the fundraising for promotion of the free-to-air principle?
 What was the distinction between the state and public broadcaster? What was the relevancy to put him on board when he did not know the distinction between the state and public broadcasting?
Was he thinking that he would undertake orientation or induction programme after appointment? Would it be fair to South Africans to appoint him and then undertake orientation programme after becoming a member of the SABC Board?

Mr Madisha, taking from what the candidate had said, remarked that the Committee wanted to appoint people who had also expertise in finance. If he were to be appointed, would he be able to familiarise with all information needed in a short period of time in order to contribute to the improvement of the SABC?
Did he understand the rules governing the Board when he was appointed?
Did he think that he had what was expected from him irrespective of not having skills and expertise in the broadcasting industry?
How would he deal with the political interference of the work of the Board?

Refer to audio for responses

The meeting was adjourned.