Department of Science and Technology on its Annual Performance Plan; DST/DTI Task Team on Indigenous Knowledge Bill

Meeting report

Annual Performance Plan and Budget Plan 2017/18

Dr Philemon Mjwara, Director- General, Department of Science and Technology, presented the 2017/18 Annual Performance Plan and Budget of the Department of Science and Technology (DST), which has 49 indicators, a reduction from 2016/17.

The 2017/18 planning cycle was undertaken with the following issues for consideration:

• Increased traction on the implementation of government’s 9-point plan and growing appreciation of the potential contribution of Science, Technology and Innovation (STI) towards socio-economic transformation
• Growing appreciation of the Operation Phakisa (OP) methodology and DSTs participation in all OP to date
• A number of policy related initiatives underway (White Paper Review, STIIL Review etc.)
• Budget cuts and the implications these would bear on both the attainment of targets and concomitant HR resources needed for implementation 

The budget cuts affected the Department in two ways:

• Vacancies (moratorium on hiring) = 42 vacancies
• Reduction of targets in a number of indicators (compared to 2016/17); specifically, under the following programmes:

Programme 4: Research Development and Support: the number of research grants awarded per award letter annually was reduced to 30 grants in 2017/18 from 70 in 2016/17.

Programme 5: Socio-Economic Innovation Partnerships: the number of innovation products added to the IP innovation product portfolio through fully funded or co-funded research initiatives was reduced to 17 in 2017/18 from 35 in 2016/17. Secondly, the amount of high level graduates fully funded or co-funded in designated niche areas was reduced to 288 in 2017/18 from 290 in 2016/17. Thirdly, the number of instruments funded in support of increased localisation, competitiveness and Research and Development (R&D) led industry development was reduced to 6 in 2017/18 from 9 in 2016/17. Fourthly, the number of knowledge and innovation products (patents, prototypes, technology demonstrators or technology transfer packages) added to the innovation product portfolio through fully funded or co-funded research initiatives was reduced to 17 in 2017/18 from 35 in 2016/17. The fifth indicator affected was the number of interns fully funded or co-funded in R&D related to design, manufacturing and product development, as it was reduced from 200 to 100 for the financial year under review.
 

Programme 2: Technology Innovation: the number of postgraduate students, i.e. Masters and PhD, funded in designated areas was reduced to 355 in 2017/18 from 392 in 2016/17. Secondly, the number of instruments funded in support of knowledge utilisation were reduced to 19 in 2017/18 from 25 in 2016/17. The third indicator affected was the number of trainees attending training initiatives in designated areas that was reduced to 240 in 2017/18 from 280 in 2016/17.

The reduction of the annual budget was not self-derived by the DST, but was a decision that National Treasury had made, as it had redirected funds previously allocated to the Department.

Dr Mjwara noted that the Annual Performance Plan of 2017/18 had a total of 49 targets. Programme 1: Administration had a total of six targets. Programme 2: Technology Innovation had a total of ten targets. Programme 3: International Cooperation and Resources, also, had ten targets. Programme 4: Research Development Support had 11 targets for the year under review. Programme 5: Socio-Economic Innovation Partnerships had a total of 12 targets for the year under review.  DST had five Strategic Outcome goals, viz. (i) A responsive, coordinated and efficient NSI; (ii) increased knowledge of science and technology for the next generation; (iii) human capital development; (iv)using knowledge for economic development, (v) Using knowledge for inclusive development. Under these Strategic goals, the Department has prioritised the following policy initiatives for the 2017/18 fiscal year i.e.

• Establishment of a Sovereign Innovation Fund
• Expansion of the Sector Innovation Funds
• Review of the Intellectual Property Rights from Publicly Financed Research and Development Act
• Expansion of Hydrogen South Africa Programme
• Finalisation of the Innovation for Inclusive Development Strategy
• Development of a new White Paper on Science, Technology and Innovation (STI) and the finalisation of the Science, Technology and Innovation Institutional Landscape Review (STIIL)
• Completion of 64 MeerKAT antennae commissioned for a single polarisation array.

The financial compartmentalisation per Programme was as follows: Programme 1: Administration- R383 million; Programme 2: Technology Innovation- R1.073 billion; Programme 3: International Cooperation and Resources- R 128 million; Programme 4: Research Development Support- R4.34 billion, and Programme 5: Socio-Economic Innovation Partnerships- R1.62 billion, equating to a total of R7.55 billion. The Economic Classification amounted to R575 million for Current Payments, i.e. R315 million for the Compensation of Employees and R260 million for Goods and Services; Transfers and Payments amounted to R6.9 billion, and Payments for Capital Assets amounted to R20 million.

Mr Tommy Makhode, Deputy Director General, DST, noted that the newly adopted Combined Assurance Model was an innovation by the Internal Audit Committee and the private sector designed to mitigate risks pertaining to enterprise risk management and auditing within the Department.

Mr Mmboneni Muofhe, DDG: TI, DST, clarified the process of rolling out the hydrogen plants. Currently, DST was in the demonstration phase. Identification of areas for the demonstrations to take place was considered, particularly areas that would evoke the most impact. There were areas devoid of electrical connections and thus heavy reliance on social infrastructure, such as schools, had existed. A school was identified in the North-West Province, a process had started deploying, of which DST had three centres to use various components into one unit that would start generating electricity. Where possible, a process to develop solar energy locally was considered. DST was in discussion with the Provinces regarding the deployment of such demos in some schools. By 2020, at least 25 functional demos should be established nationwide for institutions, such as schools, with the purpose of reducing the cost of electricity by supplying reliable sources of electricity. Also, the DST supports the deployment of components. The market may not be able to keep components as a fully-fledged unit. Subsequently, a number of components were on sale, particularly to the international market, of which the component centre in Cape Town had already become commercialised.

Ms Phethiwe Matutu, Acting DDG: RDS, DST, added that the number of target indicators had decreased, because of a different method of noting. Thus, the Department had yet retained the quality of its outputs and weight of its work. Also, the Office of the Auditor General (AGSA) had advised that numerative totals would be rounded off.

Ms Nonhlanhla Mkhize, Director: Strategy and Planning, DST, elaborated on the innovation programme, as it demonstrates how the Department was deviating beyond conventional technological developments by including township and rural enterprises. Innovators that reside in rural and township areas could be supported by the Department, particularly if they were outside of the Post-School Education and Training Sector (PSET). Also, evidence of innovation for sectors that were previously regarded as exclusively high-end skill had existed in the entities.

Discussion

Dr A Lotriet (DA) appreciated the presentation, and requested clarity on the injured party of the budget cuts. Were the budget cuts and the cited implications thereof applicable solely to the Department, or had the reduction of available funds impeded upon the entities as well due to decrease of transfer of funds? Secondly, which levels were the 42 vacancies operational within? Were these vacancies high- level vacancies and so required filling timeously, or were these mainly on the lower level, that had not required technical skills and might not require the same urgency to suffice?

Mr C Mathale (ANC) appreciated the presentation, and noted that experience had denoted that in Government some essential aspects stood amiss, because it was not warranted the appropriate level or platform to have had expressed itself within. Thus, the weight, essence or virtue of the cause or project had faltered to garner the expected outcome that it had aspired for. Was the Department of the view that the faculty of science was not warranted a serious level high enough in the sphere of Government to be taken adequately seriously and so induce the advancement in technology that the South African society required? In other words, should a different platform of seniority be given for expression for science and technology? To an extent this might underpin the reason why, when DST should pursue endeavours, other departments such as the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI), would carry the project out. Did DST consider that repositioning science on another level/ platform might warrant enablement to play the role that it was to execute across the departments? Another issue of concern was hydrogen; which was a by- product of platinum and was found in North West and Limpopo. The component manufacturer was located in close proximity to the ocean. Was this not perpetuating that which was inherited from history? Every hole dug would eventually reach a point whereby it could no longer be dug, because the natural resource was completely mined out. Many established companies that were located by a hole/ rights to mine would have dug up the material to the point that it was no longer available, but before reaching such point the company would have diversified usage of the ground to have maximised it. For instance, it was the Gold Rush that had attracted the flocks of people to Johannesburg, but the City of Gold was no longer sustainable by such means, but had flourished beyond it due to the addition and development of other infrastructure. Currently, a situation poses the concern of lack of platinum, and seemingly the surrounding area dwindled as the source drew up. If the source of the component had diversified before it was dried up it would secure prosperity, but if not, once mining ran dry there would be limited avenues for economic sustenance, due to under-development. It was imperative to develop methodologies to maximise and guarantee turnover beyond the source that was the initial attraction to the area, and this required technological thought. Technology was, therefore, the core of economic growth. The reason behind this was that it appears as though DST was creating a market for things that had not existed yet. In other words, if a hole was dug and no innovation envisaged probability of its usage once empty, then technological thought was not considered for the diversification of the hole, in its longer-term usage and economic viability. It was commendable that the Department was persistent in technological development, as it had acknowledged that it would never reach a point of irrelevance. Yet, as a country there was yet a mountain to climb, thus more work was necessary.

Mr N Koornhof (ANC) appreciated the presentation and agreed with the Director General that the National Development Plan (NDP) was the guiding document for Science and Technology, however, it seems as though the NDP was on the back- burner when the APP were devised. With the re-launch of the White Paper, would DST re-emphasise the NDP? Also, due to the depravation of Science and Technology in many communities, the introduction thereof was not well received. Seemingly, individuals were convinced of the importance of science by having mobile technology, such as cellular phones and/ Internet devices, i.e. laptops and tablets. Subsequently, it both enhanced and was appreciated in the standard of living for individuals. However, the communities collectively would not embrace technological development, as means of upgrading their standard of living and as a tenet of both survival and development for everyone residing in it. Hence, was DST involving the local communities, inclusive of rural, within its technological innovations and advocacy? This should be evoked as means of upgrading not only the material disposition of communities, but also to encourage the embrace and appreciation/ understanding of science in the communities. Also, the leading department on climate change was the Department of Environmental Affairs (DEA), but within the presentation empathises were made to Climate Change by DST. Does this equate that DST shall play a bigger role regarding Climate Change, and that together with DEA it shall represent South Africa within the global platform regarding it?
The Human Resource Council (HRC) had highlighted that many of the entities were seemingly replications of each other, would DST agree with such deduction? Lastly, the intent of the budget was commendable, particularly if it could be achieved with the reduction of administrative costs.

Ms J Terblanche (DA) appreciated the presentation, and asked what had informed the budget reduction of transfer of funds to the entities? Was a particular formula adopted, or was the performance of the entity reviewed and in accordance to its accomplishments or lack thereof was allocated a revised budget? Some of the entities had the ability to attract its own funding or donation thereof, was this possibility taken into consideration to inform reduction? Would self-derived funding implicate their grant funding or was it treated independently? In the prior finance budget the Minister had reference an entity of DST as a recipient of R2.9 billion, of which personally was mistaken as an error, but upon scrutiny the receipt of such exorbitant amount of funds was proven true, since it was externally sourced. In such case, the entity was familiar with an influx of large funds; and if so, sustenance was more likely to be at risk, due to the reduction. Therefore, would the reductions impede upon the entities operational capacities? Had DST devised a plan as a measure of intervention for entities that it could foresee complications for, since if left unintended it may struggle to such extent that it would falter to cope?  Furthermore, would the Department be capable of making allowances for entities that did not have the ability to fundraise?

The Chairperson noted that although all the posts within the Department of Science and Technology were essential, otherwise would have ceased to exist, but of the current 42 vacancies which were more critical than others? The Department of Public Services and Administration/Monitoring (DPSA) and the Committee on Appropriations may need to be consulted to clarify the dynamics involved regarding the Sciences and Technology, as this might convince the urgency for appointment. The DST had often been mistaken as a large corporation with complex dynamics that were incomprehensible; because of such tendency most had not even bothered to become acquainted with it by understanding its purpose, endeavours and contributions to the domestic economy by means of skills development and innovation. It was uncertain if an inter-ministerial meeting attended by the Director Generals were to take place, as collaboration with the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) regarding the innovation of small business using science and/or technology was essential. Collaboration with DTI and small businesses had occurred and an example of this was the Programme of Incubation, but having undergone it would suffice a temporary purpose, unless continued collaboration and follow-up would proceed. Therefore, to ensure that the purpose of the collaboration was sustained the small business owners would require follow-up support. An illustration of such was the rurally located gentleman who had grown a particular plant in order to extract its essence as a main ingredient in a hand-product range that he created and now had stocked at Spar Supermarkets. This original range had gained such success that there exists a demand to expand the range to add facial and body-care products as well. Having engaged with this gentleman during the oversight visit it was clear that he had required further support for the sake of expansion and sustenance. A possible approach to take to ensure that DST has not just initiated scientific innovation was to have the gentlemen absorbed into a small business or mentored to start his own. After receiving the relevant exposure and marketing experience, DTI would then supervise and evaluate, if necessary. Departments were meant to work complimentarily along one another and not in competition with each other. The Committee was working towards the acquisition of a separate.

Dr Mjwara answered that the budget cuts had implicated two parts; the first was the Human Resource, thus the number of personnel was affected. Out of the 42 vacancies, 13 were roles of Senior Manager and 29 were below director level. 17 of the vacancies were critical posts, which entailed that if those particular posts remained unfilled the Department shall incur impact, particularly as some of it was to oversee the entities and the others were to advocate the initiatives of DST. DST had engaged with National Treasury (NT) since the budget cuts took place, because prior to the reduction of budget allocation NT had not communicated about the downscaling, but had unilaterally decided to proceed with it. NT had a macro- level target for downscaling the public sector that was understood, but there was an underlying assumption that some departments, such as policy-related or social services such as nurses and policemen would not endure downscaling with the same formulae used on other departments. However, a Director Generals meeting had occurred on 9 May 2017, set up by the DG of the Presidency, and a multi-disciplinary team inclusive of DPSA and NT to work on developing a framework. Notwithstanding that many staff members had resigned, there was yet a staff budget shortfall.  

Ms Pretty Makhode, Chief Financial Officer, DST, clarified that with the current staff members there was a shortfall, which entailed R17 million. The budget necessary for the Compensation of Employees (CoE) was R332 million, but the budget it was given was R315 million.

Dr Mjwara continued that due to the shortfall of CoE, a decision was taken that no new posts would be filled. It was requested of DST to revert in October when budget adjustments would take place, of which there was anticipation to note if NT could assist with the shortfall initially given it. In the interim DST was maximising output of personnel with the funds that it had, which entailed that in certain instances staff members were requested to take on more responsibility, however unions had reminded that additional work beyond the job description should be compensated for. DST would brief the Portfolio Committee on this matter at a later stage, as there were collective attempts to ensure that the work did not suffer.

Regarding the revision of the White Paper, it was asked that if the work of the science, technology and innovation enterprises, inclusive of the Department, needs to be executed on a higher judicatory, how would Government account for its reality? Proposals were made, some of which were in the stages of consultation, and one of the proposals was that a structure in the Presidency should be considered to ensure that each line department included activities of science and technology, as well as setting up a high level ministerial task team to review it as a priority in the country. It was agreed that the outcome of DST was not as maximised as it had potential for or intentions of, because of the lack of higher level of Government to advance its cause. Proposals for strengthening of location of activity within Government were also welcomed by the Committee.

On the strategy to ensure value addition regarding hydrogen there were two proposals. One was a Special Economic Zone proposed in Gauteng for the manufacturing of hydrogen. There was also discussion with the office of the Premier in Limpopo to acquire a Special Economic Zone there too, for the manufacturing of platinum, hydrogen etc., such as the former Platinum Valley driven by the Province of North West. Admittedly, DST did not have the political muscle or resources to offer incentives to the provinces upon consideration of special economic zones for manufacturing. DST could advance consideration of it via provincial forums, but were not able to award incentives. Economic activity could be advanced by the special economic zones, as well as businesses revolving would be accelerated, resulting in job creation.

The launch of the White Paper could empathise that aspects of the NDP could be enhanced by the contribution of science and technology. This would also lead to the concern of whether the Department was doing enough regarding public engagement. The Committee would be processing a Bill that would be advancing the proposal of greater advocacy and integration. The entities were the agencies to advance science, technology and innovation; which were meant to engage with the public, since those had run the sciences centres. However, the Department was currently engaging on the possibility of establishing a formal entity for the primary purpose of advocacy of science in the public, inclusive of the probable financing that it would require. It was proposed that at least 4% of the funding transferred to the entities be earmarked for public engagement. Of the 4% a portion shall be demarcated for the design of programmes and monitoring of its efficacy. Thus, in short, insufficient public engagements were taking place, but there were methods for its institutionalisation underway.

The budget allocation for GDP was well ahead of the continental target of 1%. One of the manners to ensure its reality was to revise models used elsewhere, if one considers Brazil, for instance, there was a way of raising taxes or utilisation of state funds to finance social resolve for the issues prevalent in the particular provinces. Domestically, it could be translated in that if the North-West Province has an interest in the production of hydrogen, which may not be a factor in the other provinces, the provincial budget allocation earmarked for science and technology could be used for the manufacturing of hydrogen. Local Government (LG) budgets earmarked for service delivery using science and technologies could also accomplish GDP contribution. Therefore, if National Treasury and the Offices of Premiers consent to this possibility with the identification of areas that DST could collaborate with them, it could be a viable manner of raising funds, as well as ensuring that the products that resulted from the system were utilised.

Regarding Climate Change, DST role was two-fold. It has its own activities through internal innovations to address the challenges thereof. The role that DST was to play was to consider how science could be used to understand climate change and inform policy as a result of it. DST, together with the CSIR, had developed a Risk and Vulnerability Assessment. DST was aware that there would be a 2-degree global warming, which poses questions of concern- what does that mean and how could LG prepare for its manifestation? The Risk and Vulnerability assessment was being converted to an electronic dashboard and gif map. Secondly, DST had also used science to assist the DEA regarding its participation in the global structure, yet DST does not facilitate, but warrants support instead.

Within DST, admittedly, there were entities that had overlapped; of which attempts to manage it and prohibit it from further occurring was made. For instance, when the Strategy plans were devised extensive deliberation was done with the entities, for 2017/18 deliberations occurred thrice, subsequently, the APP addresses the overlapping. Sometimes these were unavoidable given the context of the industry and the duplications could serve a complimentary purpose, due to its harmony. However, it was essential to ensure that the duplications should not exhaust the transfer of funds due to repetition. The CEOs of these entities meet once a quarter in a platform called the Committee of Heads for Science and Technology, in which replications and other observations would be indicated to them within it.

It should be clarified that the Department did not usually do budget cuts, however, whenever it did the Department would encounter top slicing and it was communicated about well in advance. National Treasury usually did the budget allocation, and it was the responsibility of the Department to ensure that it would minimise impact on the entities. DST worked with the entities to ensure that the financial shortfalls would not implicate on the overall performance. To illustrate an example, the R150 million that was to have been transferred from NT over three years, was stopped by NT and reallocated to Mining Research Development instead. That funds were not ‘new money’, but were originally allocated for infrastructure at the National Research Foundation. DST did not usually touch the budgets of the entities, and there was one instance, three years ago, whereby NT had requested DST to highlight an entity that it was willing to incur 1% reduction of budget for. The recommendation was done on areas in which the impact on operation would be minimised. Therefore, budgets for employment, i.e. Compensation of Employees; human capital development were avoided. Entities were warranted liberty to distinguish which projects it would have preferred priority on. This was carried out by going to the premises of the entity and requesting of it personally of areas that it could foresee coping after incurring budget cuts. Therefore, firstly, NT induced the budget cuts on its own accord, and secondly, if requested by NT to indicate areas for cutting, DST would engage with its entities.

In the Incubation Programme, DST had agreed to work with the Department of Small Business Development (DSBD), and DST would incubate to a certain point after which DSBD would exercise the rollout. Yet no formal mechanism currently exists for institutionalised collaboration, apart from taking the initiative to share within bilateral agreements with the various departments.

Ms Matutu clarified that NDP was not on the back-burner of the APP. The NDP has a 5-year plan called the Medium Term Strategic Framework for enforcement, of which was outlined with Outcomes. Outcomes 4,5,6,7, and 10 had informed the APP.

Mr Muofhe added that DST had reached a stage whereby the work needs to leave the lab of mineral department to manufacturing.  That process was inclusive of relocating closer to the mineral resources itself. Work on Special Economic Zone growth had resulted in proposals for establishments in North West Province and Limpopo Province. Even though the work undergone about hydrogen had achieved much progress at UCT, considerations were made to scale it out of the institution and move it closer to platinum plants. Motivation for this was that costs incurred for the extraction of hydrogen should not prove more expensive than the source of mining. The designation thereof was within the scope of DTI to make.

Indigenous Knowledge (IK) Bill progress update

Dr Yonah Seleti, Chief Director: Science Missions, Department of Science and Technology, briefed the Committee on progress with regard to establishing a task team with the Department on Trade and Industry on the Protection, Promotion, Development and Management of the Indigenous Knowledge (IK) Bill.
There had been extensive activities around the Indigenous Knowledge Act (IKA), one of which was the graduation of 16 out of 20 students about Indigenous Knowledge Systems on 24 April in Mafikeng, North West. The update on the report was as follows; on 1 March 2017, the DST drafting team met with the Parliamentary Legal drafters and jointly responded to and addressed the comments made during the public hearings. The Bill has now been transposed into a technical working draft. Following such, the Portfolio Committee undertook two oversight visits to Ataqua and Durban on 27 and 30 March respectively. The purpose thereof was to engage with the communities on the IK Bill and visit the IK instruments established by DST. A follow up meeting with the Ataqua community was held with the DST, to address the Bio-cultural issues that rose with and by the Portfolio Committee. On 1 March 2017, a critical meeting occurred, of which the DST attended a joint sitting with the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry and the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology. The purpose of the meeting was to solicit further comments and inputs from the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) regarding the IK Bill. The Commissioner from the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission made a presentation on behalf of DTI. Out of this meeting, a couple of points were made, such as the advising of setting up a Task Team. On behalf of the Chairpersons, both of the Ministers were liaised with on 6 March 2017 informing them of the agreed need for a task team. The Minister of Science and Technology responded to the letter citing her reluctance to the request from the Joint Portfolio Committee, but had agreed to the establishment of the Task Team. It was also noted that within the liaison between the Director Generals (DG), the terms of reference as cited by the Joint Portfolio Committees were expanded upon by the DG of DTI. The DG of DTI had proposed extending the brief of the task team to include the Department of Environmental Affairs (DEA), as the leading department on the task team, of which the names of the officials from DEA were proposed to join the Task Team, but the DST had not supported this proposal. The date of convening for the Task Team had been set to 26 May 2017. Deliberation was not expected to take longer than a day.

The list of the issues agreed upon by the Joint Portfolio Committees were as follows; viz. the “Misalignment” between the IK Bill and of Intellectual Property Laws Amendment Act (IPLAA); the necessity and/or validity of protecting the commercialisation of IK through the Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) protection, as the patent legislation for the promotion of IK has barely been used; the specification and functionality of the national database envisaged under section 28 (c) of IPLAA; the process of registering derivatives from IK and how the existing IK would be protected; the transboundary nature of IK, and the commercialisation of IK without acquiring IPRs.

Discussion

The Chairperson noted that the Task Team would meet on the 26 May 2017, after which it was appreciated of the Department to revert to further report, as the Portfolio Committee was eager for the finalisation, i.e. the ratification of the Indigenous Knowledge Bill. The experience garnered with the community in KwaZulu-Natal had provoked such inspiration that personal consideration to pursue PhD studies in Indigenous Knowledge was induced. The information provided by the students was interesting and informative in an in-depth manner.

Mr Koornhof advised that the DST would convene within the Task Team on 26 May 2017, accompanied by a proper lawyer that was unbiased. The legal services of those previous employed should not be sought after; such as the Professor who had arrived from the University of Stellenbosch, notwithstanding the top-tier excellence of his expertise regarding intellectual property, but because the (DTI) also dealt with him. DST requires an excellent legal opinion that was independent, as this would indicate to both Departments that public intellectual property can not live with both bills. If the technical implications were not thoroughly considered at the onset, it would invoke loopholes of error that will merely enrich the lawyers later.

The Chairperson noted that not only had Mr Koornhof a background in law, but he was a Member within both the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology and the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, and thus had highlighted the concern with the understanding of the implications on both.

Mr Seleti appreciated the advice and assured that there was sufficient time to pursue the services of one so stipulated.

Mr Mathale reiterated that good legal advice was indeed essential.

The Chairperson appreciated the update on the progress report and noted anticipation of the ratification of the IK Bill.

Other Matters

The Portfolio Committee of Science and Technology was briefed regarding the period of 7/8 July – 15 July 2017 and the possible trip to Asia. It was highlighted to Committee Members that party representation on international visits was obligated to be four ANC members, and three other party members. Hence, the Committee would divulge the matter in detail next week.

The meeting was adjourned.