White Paper on Policing & White Paper on Safety and Security; DPCI "Hawks" office accommodation

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Police

08 March 2017
Chairperson: Mr F Beukman (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee received briefings from the Civilian Secretariat for Police (CSP) on the White Paper on Policing and White Paper on Safety and Security. The overview of public submissions on the White Paper on Policing highlighted that there was lack of clarity on funding responsibilities. The White Paper failed to explicitly assign functions to national and provincial government to secure funding for proper costing of all municipal activities to inform proper planning and budgeting by all spheres of government the recommendation was that policy should be a key performance area and key performance indicator. The national crime prevention strategies must be aligned legislatively and organisationally. 

The White Paper needed to involve and be understood by communities on the ground and must talk to ward-based structures. The White Paper must ensure the legitimacy of Community Policing Forums (CPFs). CPFs must be supported, and must remain key nodes for the development of safe communities for all citizens. The White Paper should also emphasise role of Community Safety Forums (CSFs) and CPFs in discussion on community participation, as well as the differences of each. The White Paper on Policing was premised on a number of factors including the need to address risk factors, encourage intersectoral and intergovernmental consultation, cooperation and collaboration for effective and integrated service delivery. There is also a need to have an effective and integrated planning and implementation by government informed by a sound knowledge base and active community participation. The White Paper highlighted that active citizenry and coordinated partnerships with CPFs, NGOs and business would be crucial for effective and sustainable strategy development for safety.  

Members asked about the progress that had been made in terms of the implementation of the 1998 White Paper on Policing. It would be important for the Committee to hear about the role of the Secretariat in ensuring that there was accountability within SAPS and this was also part of the oversight role. The Committee should be briefed on whether a parliamentary role was considered in the objective criteria that is being used for the selection and recruitment of the National Commissioner and Deputies. The general feeling is that there should be a consideration of the parliamentary role in all that appointments to be made.

Members requested explanation on the meaning of Single Police Service Unit as this was not explained in the presentation. The presentation should have used a simple language that would accommodate everyone. What is the meaning of 21st century policing? It would important to ascertain whether there was a scientific research that was conducted in identifying firearms as a key driver of violence. CSP should clarify whether the Firearm Summit that took place in the Committee in about two years ago taken into consideration in the conclusion that firearms were a key driver of violence.  

The overview of public submissions on the White Paper on Policing pointed to the implication of integration of Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) into the SAPS may lead to increased levels of crime and lawlessness in municipal spaces. The law enforcement with regard to by-laws will be impaired. There is a need to clearly define what is meant/ intended by a Single Police Service – that there will be no incorporation of MPS personnel into the SAPS. The MPS and Traffic Police should be placed under the command and control of the National Commissioner as a force multiplier. There was also a recommendation from public submissions that there should be a release of crime statistics. In regard to the demilitarisation of police, the submissions suggested that changing the rank structure will have a negative impact on morale and discipline. The demilitarisation must be defined and contextualised within the current challenges – paper must explain how demilitarisation will address these challenges

The White Paper must clearly articulate the role of Community Police Forums. The policy should reflect on the nature and extent of police use of excessive force and firearm use, and provide a policy framework for a right-based use of force policy. The White Paper should provide policy direction on the regulation of the use of force by the police. There should be a framework for the proportionate use of force and the promotion of accountability measures when excessive force is used. The implementation framework will follow a phased approach. There were number of submissions that were received and these included the African Policing Civilian Oversight Forum (APCOF), Institute for Security Studies (ISS), Legal Resources Centre (LRC), Gun Free South Africa, Helen Suzman Foundation and, Civil Society Prison Reform Initiative.

Members wanted to know the timeline for the migration of CPFs from SAPS as it was previously indicated that this would be taking place. There was also a request that the identification of vulnerable groups should include the farming community. The statistics on farm murders showed that the killing in the farming community was 133 per 100 000. The reality is that the number of blacks that were killed on our farming community far exceeded the whites. It would be important to know about the envisioned role of ward committees in the role of local government in the fight against crime as this was the most underutilised service in many communities. One Member asked if the White Paper on Safety and Security was presented to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development.

There was also briefing by the Department of Public Works (DPW) on office accommodation for the DPCI. It was pointed out that the Hawks is currently accommodated in 45 buildings all over the country and 38 buildings out of the 45 are leased premises with a total approximate extent of 65 500 m². The client has already submitted 7 needs assessments and are in the process of finalizing 14 outstanding needs assessments for application of space and cost norms by Department of Public Works (DPW). In most of the buildings, the Hawks is co-occupying with other SAPS components. The total annual rent for accommodations (excl. VAT) is R79.08 million and the active expired leases account for 5% of portfolio. Out of the entire leased portfolio, only about 10 buildings are in a good state of habitability with the remaining 23 raging from poor to extremely poor.

The most common denominator in all buildings is a general lack of maintenance by landlords. The other serious concern is the overutilisation or overcrowding in buildings. Also prominent, is the fragmented manner in which is allocated to the Hawks. There are a number of challenges that had been identified and these included inefficiency in the leasing process, delays in the conclusion of procurement of accommodation, leases are procured on a reactive basis than strategically. There was also a concern that the current rates are expensive and out of line with the market and the rates not related to age and condition of buildings. In order to deal with challenges, a joint committee will be established between SAPS/ DPCI and DPW to expedite the preparation of documents for procurement of alternative accommodation on behalf of the Hawks. For non-compliant facilities where lease agreements are still active, landlords will be put on terms for non-compliance.

Members wanted to know about the current status on the lease agreements on some of the accommodations identified. In relation to the matter of expiry of lease agreements, it would be important to ascertain whether the negotiations for the renewal of the leases had already taken place. What are the steps that are being taken to landlords that are failing to maintain these buildings as this was impacting on the work of the Hawks /SAPS? They all expressed dismay over the fact that the Hawks and SAPS members were expected to work under debilitated buildings that posed threat to their safety and security. 

 

Meeting report

Briefing by the Civilian Secretariat for Police (CSP) on White Paper on Policing

Mr Mark Rogers, Director: Policy and Research, CSP, said that the public submissions on the White Paper highlighted that there was lack of clarity on funding responsibilities. The White Paper fails to explicitly assign functions to national and provincial government to secure funding. There was a proposal for proper costing of all municipal activities to inform proper planning and budgeting by all spheres of government - the recommendation was that policy should be a key performance area and key performance indicator. The national crime prevention strategies must be aligned legislatively and organisationally. There should be proper resource allocation for safety and security strategies in rural areas. There was also a recommendation that 'young/infant children' (conception to age 6) should be recognised as a separate vulnerable group. There should also be identification of risks associated with young/ infant children. The submissions also flagged that it would be crucial important to prioritise the right prevention and intervention strategies for early childhood development.

Mr Rogers stated that the public submissions recommended that community members in cooperation with law enforcement should not only deal with crime directly but also address causes of their crime problem. The White Paper needed to involve and be understood by communities on the ground   and must talk to ward-based structures. The White Paper must ensure the legitimacy of Community Policing Forums (CPFs). CPFs must be supported, and must remain key nodes for the development of safe communities for all citizens. The White Paper should also emphasise the role of Community Safety Forums (CSFs) and CPFs in discussion on community participation, as well as the differences of each. It is important to clarify that the 2016 White Paper on Safety and Security emanates from a review of the1998 White Paper on Safety and Security. The review process culminated in the development of two distinct policy frameworks: The 2016 White Paper on Policing focusing on the core elements of policing and the 2016 White Paper on Safety and Security focusing on an integrated and developmental approach to safety and violence prevention.

The development of a new policy on safety, crime and violence prevention is aimed at promoting an integrated and holistic approach to safety and security, and to provide substance and direction to achieving the National Development Plan (NDP’s) objectives of ‘Building Safer Communities’. The objectives of the White Paper are to provide an overarching policy for an integrated approach to safety and security and facilitate the creation of a sustainable, well-resourced implementation and oversight mechanisms. The White Paper also aimed to co-ordinate, monitor, evaluate and report on implementation of crime prevention priorities across all sectors. The focus of this White Paper is to prevent crime and violence, which is a necessary precondition for increasing people's feelings of safety and building safer communities.The White Paper recognises the importance of initiatives that aim to reduce poverty, inequality, and unemployment. The White Paper proposes a 'whole of government' approach which calls for institutional arrangements to facilitate the integrated and multi-sectoral provision of crime and violence prevention services through intergovernmental structures and mechanisms.

Mr Rogers mentioned that the White Paper was premised on the following factors:

  • addressing risk factors – intervening in the individual, family, community and structural domains in order to build resilience
  • Intersectoral and intergovernmental consultation, cooperation and collaboration for effective and integrated service delivery
  • effective and integrated planning and implementation by government informed by a sound knowledge base and active community participation
  • active citizenry and coordinated partnerships with CPFs, NGOs and business for effective and sustainable strategy development for safety

Mr Rogers highlighted that the development of an implementation plan will include mapping out the core roles/responsibilities of departments in relation to the six themes of the White Paper and a costing of activities. Also included in the plan are councillor induction programmes in partnership with the provincial secretariats and South African Local Government Association (SALGA). The development of a pocketbook for councillors would be crucial important in providing clarity on roles/responsibilities in terms of safety planning. There would be an engagement with the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME) around the establishment of the ‘Centre’ as well as the development of a centralised database to support rigorous analysis, monitoring and evaluation. There were number of submissions that were received on the White Paper, including from the following organisations:

  • Safety and Violence Initiative
  • University of Cape Town
  • Ndifuna Ukwazi & Social Justice Coalition
  • Sex Workers Education & Advocacy Taskforce (SWEAT)
  • Sisonke Gender Justice
  • Hermanus Community Police Forum
  • John Cartwright - Place making for public safety (consultant)
  • Medical Research Council
  • SALGA

Discussion

The Chairperson asked about the progress that had been made in terms of the implementation of the 1998 White Paper on Policing. It would be important for the Committee to hear about the role of the Secretariat in ensuring that there was accountability within SAPS and this was also part of the oversight role.

Ms M Mmola (ANC) wanted to know the process that would be undertaken for the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) and Traffic Police to be placed under the command and control of the National Commissioner as a force multiplier. It was indicated that the Civilian Secretariat has contracted the Government Technical Advisory Centre (GTAC) to assist in developing an implementation framework. How long was this contracting likely to take? Who is going to nominate members to form part of the development of the implementation plan?

Ms L Mabija (ANC) requested explanation on the meaning of Single Police Service Unit as this was not explained in the presentation. The presentation should have used simple language that would accommodate everyone. What is the meaning of 21st century policing? 

Mr M Redelinghuys (DA) commented that the Committee and Parliament did not have any input on the Green Paper and White Paper as those are Government policies and instruments. Members only make an input if there is any legislative review that needed to be undertaken to be tabled in Parliament. It would be important to know from the Secretariat about the whole intention for the review of the 1998 White Paper on Safety and Security. The Committee should be briefed on whether parliamentary role was considered in the selection and recruitment of the National Commissioner and Deputies must take place against objective criteria determined through a presidential appointment process. The general feeling is that there should be a consideration of the parliamentary role in all that appointments that had been made.

Mr Redelinghus asked if the single national police service referred to the standardisation and training involved or putting the police service under the command and control of the national police commissioner. What are the implications for accountability under the single national police service? It was unclear as to what the main contribution of Sisonke Gender Justice was in terms of the submissions that had been received. How did the input of Sisonke Gender Justice find expression in the review of 1998 White Paper?

Mr Z Mbhele (DA) firstly commended the quality of work that had been produced in the review of 1998 White Paper and the main points seemed to be agreeable. The overall improvement in the police service would have to rest on three pillars, namely professionalisation, localisation and specialisation. The aspect of professionalisation of the police service seemed to be adequately covered in the presentation as this entailed training, capacitation as well as accountability. The localisation of the police service would ensure more responsive policing in the local context. There is a need to move away from the centralised approach in policing as it was causing unnecessary delays, bottlenecks and bureaucracy. How would the localisation aspect of the police service contribute in making police more effective in dealing with crime?   

Mr P Groenewald (FF+) wanted to know about the barriers that were identified in the reporting of domestic violence. It was concerning that SAPS did not have real statistics on domestic violence. It would be important to ascertain whether there was a scientific research that was conducted in identifying firearms as a key driver of violence. CSP should clarify whether the Firearm Summit that took place in the Committee about two years ago was taken into consideration in the conclusion that firearms were a key driver of violence.

Mr Alvin Rapea, Secretariat, CSP, responded that indeed the time it had taken for CSP to review the 1998 White Paper on Safety and Security was worrying as the process started as far back as 2010. The enlisting of GTAC was meant to assist CSP in fast-tracking the development of the implementation plan. CSP was having a discussion with the leader of the Deputy President’s office regarding ways to deal with the Prioritised Amendment Bill. CSP was requested to finalise the White Paper on policing before proceeding with SAPS Amendment Bill. The Committee would be furnished with a revised programme that would indicate the timelines for dealing with amendments in various bills. CSP was currently revising its own organisational structure and this would ensure that the entity was geared to implement the White Paper. SAPS was involved in all the policies that are being done by CSP as they are the ones who are doing the operation. The involvement of SAPS was basically to ensure that there was harmony in policies implemented by CSP. SAPS or DPCI was also involved in the drafting of the legislation.        

Ms Bilkis Omar, Chief Director: Policy and Research, CSP, clarified that SAPS was involved in the process of the implementation plan. SAPS was a critical player in the development of the implementation plan and therefore it was important to be involved in the whole process. There is a review of the structure of CSP at the moment and this is focused on looking at where the entity was going in the next five years. There is a new strategy and vision in place that is looking at how the entity would exercise the oversight role. The GTAC contract has not finalised at the moment but CSP would like to ensure that everything was finalised by December 2017. CSP was currently finalised a reporting that is looking at police resource allocation and all nine provinces made the inputs. The issue of resources was always a problem for SAPS and it would be important to look at smarter ways of policing, by utilising modern technology. In essence, 21st Century policing involves the use of modern technology to deal with crime and the problem of resources.

Ms Omar mentioned that there was a consultation with the Committee before the review of the 1998 White Paper on Policing. There is a need to have more resources to deal with sector policing especially in rural areas. One of the barriers that was identified in the reporting of domestic violence was essentially the underreporting on domestic violence. CSP had developed a policy that was looked into the barriers in reporting sexual abuse and domestic violence and this was being reviewed by the Minister and the Acting National Commissioner of Police. There was a study that was commissioned to look into how the firearms are the main driver of violence.

Mr Rogers explained that the White Paper on State and Security also looked at the role of firearms as a key driver of violent crime in the country. The White Paper did take into consideration one of the inputs by Sisonke Gender Justice and the focus was on looking at vulnerable groups, particularly the Lesbian, Gay, and Transgender, Bisexual and Intersex (LGTBI) and the kind of violence that is inflicted on these groups. There is a reference in the White Paper on having the kind of sensitivities in dealing with sexual violence targeting the LGTBI community as well as dealing with victims of sexual abuse. SAPS members would need to be properly trained to deal with those sensitive matters and deal with it in a manner that would not cause further harm or victimisation. 

Mr Redelinghuys asked if the police abuse of sex workers did find an expression in the review of the 1998 White Paper.

Mr Rogers responded that the White Paper included the issue of abuse of sex workers by the police although the White Paper does not elaborate on the matter in detail. The localisation of policing emphasises the role of communities in the fight against crime and this includes strengthening the CPF. The White Paper also highlights that the police should reflect the diversity of our communities and respond to those individual unique challenges in a particular community. The police also need to be aware of human rights obligations in the process of fighting crime. In relation to the issue of specialisation, the emphasis here is on looking at using data in identifying areas that are considered as “red flags”. 21st century policing essentially referred to the use of technology in the fight against crime as already pointed by Ms Omar. The use of technology could be to support effective policing and detection of criminals and streamlining our communication between different law enforcements. The Single Policing Service mainly talks about having uniformed and standardised norms and criteria in terms of training and discipline of police officers. This was to deal with the current trend where police members are embroiled in scandals and criminal activities.                

Briefing by CSP on White Paper on Safety and Security

Ms Omar said that according to the public submissions the integration of MPS into the SAPS may lead to increased levels of crime and lawlessness in municipal spaces. The law enforcement with regard to by-laws will be impaired. There is a need to clearly define what is meant/ intended by a Single Police Service – that there will be no incorporation of MPS personnel into the SAPS. The MPS and Traffic Police should be placed under the command and control of the National Commissioner as a force multiplier. There was also a recommendation from public submissions that there should be a release of crime statistics. With regards to the demilitarisation of police, the submissions suggested that changing the rank structure will have a negative impact on morale and discipline. The demilitarisation must be defined and contextualised within the current challenges – the paper must explain how demilitarisation will address these challenges. This process must be clearly spelt out. 

Ms Omar stated that the submissions proposed that the White Paper must provide an integrated approach towards addressing the good governance and accountability of the police. The White Paper must deal with the issue of police corruption – provide specific steps/approaches for promoting and enhancing integrity. The White Paper must incorporate the anti-corruption strategies envisaged in Chapter 14 of the NDP. The White Paper needs to ensure that the internal inspectorate has clear and defined rules of engagement and operation. The paper must emphasise that the Inspectorate must be capacitated to conduct regular unannounced inspections and that only officers of the highest ethical standards and expertise are deployed to this component. The concept of community-centred policing must be defined and the policy must articulate how this is to be achieved. The White Paper must clearly articulate the role of CPFs.

The policy should reflect on the nature and extent of police use of excessive force and firearm use, and provide a policy framework for a rights-based use of force policy.

The White Paper should provide:

  • Policy direction on the regulation of the use of force by the police
  • A framework for the proportionate use of force
  • Promote accountability measures when excessive force is used
  • A policy framework for strengthening the authority provided to police for use of their firearms – limit such use to specific situations that are consistent with the law, policy standing orders

Ms Omar highlighted that the White Paper on Policing provides a policy framework for achieving the policing vision contained in the NDP; emphasising the need to professionalise the SAPS, demilitarise the police, build safety using an integrated approach and strengthen community participation in safety. The strategic shift is moving from a broader policy on safety and security (2016 White Paper on Safety and Security) and placing emphasis on the core areas of policing and law enforcement – SAPS and Metro Police. 21st century professional policing requires specialisation in the following:

  • A crime detection capacity supported by dedicated crime and intelligence analysis - must allow for proper collection, collation and presentation of evidence to secure the prosecution of offenders
  • A dedicated capacity to identify, counter and deal with selectedorganised and transnational crime and corruption within the Detective Service and the DPCI
  • A dedicated capability to provide quality crime analysis and analytical products that will support an intelligence driven approach

In conclusion, Ms Omar mentioned that the Civilian Secretariat has contracted the GTAC to assist in developing and implementation framework. The Acting National Commissioner was requested to nominate members to form part of the development of the implementation plan.  The starting point is to unpack and clarify the shift in terms of the expanded role/mandate of the Civilian Secretariat as per the new roles and functions in the White Paper. The other considerations include Implications of the White Paper both functionally and financially. The implementation framework will follow a phased approach. There were number of submissions that were received and these included the African Policing Civilian Oversight Forum (APCOF), Institute for Security Studies (ISS), Legal Resources Centre (LRC), Gun Free South Africa, Helen Suzman Foundation and, Civil Society Prison Reform Initiative.

Discussion

The Chairperson wanted to know the timeline for the migration of CPFs from SAPS as it was previously indicated that this would be taking place. 

Mr Groenewald requested that the identification of vulnerable groups should also include the farming community. The statistics on farm murders showed that the killing in the farming community was 133 per 100 000. The reality is that the number of blacks that were killed on our farming community far exceeded the whites.

Mr Mbhele said it would be more appropriate to talk about a more “society-based approach” since safety and security was a much broader and multidimensional aspect. It would be important to know about the envisioned role of ward committees in the role of local government in the fight against crime as this was the most underutilised service in many communities.

Mr Redelinghuys asked if the White Paper on Safety and Security was presented to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development. The CPFs do play an important role in ensuring safety of the communities and this approach seemed to work much better than in some communities. The Committee should be briefed on the standardisation of communication from the CPFs, especially on the possibility of CPFs using social network like Facebook and Twitter. It was pleasing to see that CSP managed to identify the vulnerable groups but there should also be a focus on rural communities as they are also under resourced. It would be important to know about a sensitive strategy that would be used in the identification of foreign nationals that are considered vulnerable. What was mainly contained in the submission by Sisonke Gender Equality?  It was unclear if the submission by Sisonke Gender Equality managed to find an expression on the review of the White Paper on Safety and Security.

Ms Mmola enquired about the people who were responsible for the monitoring whether local governments had established the CPFs. Why would the local government be required to fundraise for all activities related to safety, crime and violence prevention?

Mr Rapea replied that the migration of the CPFs from SAPS would be dependent on the amendment of the SAPS Act. The CPFs are established in terms of the SAPS Act and this implied that the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service Act would also need to be amended. The CPF policy that is being developed is going to look at involving neighbourhood watches and street communities so as to ensure that there is a uniform way of operation. 

Ms Omar noted the proposal for the inclusion of the farming and rural community under vulnerable groups. The issue of inclusion of foreign nationals as vulnerable groups was not addressed in the White Paper as there is a ministerial intersectoral committee and the Department of Home Affairs is still dealing with the issue of foreign nationals. The inclusion of the whole of government approach would imply the inclusion of the whole community. CSP did not make a presentation to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the review of the White Paper on Safety and Security but presented to the relevant clusters. CSP was still drafting the implementation plan and therefore there would be a focus on the provincial secretariat in the monitoring of the implementation of White Paper including the establishment of CPFs. The inclusion of fundraising was on the premise that this is a society-based approach and therefore big businesses and other organisations do have a role to play on safety.   

Briefing by Department of Public Works (DPW) and SAP on office accommodation for the DPCI

Mr Paul Serote, Head, Property Management Trading Entity (PMTE), indicated that

The DPCI is currently accommodated in 45 buildings all over the country and 38 buildings out of the 45 are leased premises with a total approximate size of 65 500 m². DPCI has already submitted 7 needs assessments and PMTE was in the process of finalising 14 outstanding needs assessments for application of space and cost norms by Department of Public Works (DPW). In most of the buildings, DPCI is co-occupying with other SAPS components. The total annual rent for accommodations (excl. VAT) is R79.08 million and the active expired leases account for 5% of portfolio. Out of the entire leased portfolio, only about 10 buildings are in a good state of habitability with the remaining 23 ranging from poor to extremely poor. The most common denominator in all buildings is a general lack of maintenance by landlords. The other serious concern is the overutilisation or overcrowding in buildings. Also prominent, is the fragmented manner in which buildings are allocated to DPCI, for example, DPCI components in one town occupying three different buildings with an adverse effect on productive time and records maintenance. The most affected areas by this problem are in Polokwane; Umtata; Thohoyandou, Bloemfontein, Bellville, Klerksdorp and Newcastle. In all the towns mentioned above, all of the affected DPCI/ SAPS occupied buildings do not comply with OHS regulations and run the constituent risk of being condemned by the Department of Labour.

Mr Serote stated that a joint committee will be established between SAPS/ DPCI and DPW to expedite the preparation of documents for procurement of alternative accommodation on behalf of DPCI. For non-compliant facilities where lease agreements are still active, landlords will be put on terms for non-compliance. In the process of the above, the joint committee must also ensure that various feasibility options are explored and recommendations thereof are prioritised in the DPCI’s future accommodation acquisition plan. For expired leases, procurement processes have commenced to acquire/ extend leases. PMTE believed that the Department must involve professional services in ensuring that a standard specification guideline is developed to deal with challenges around accommodation of DPCI. The Department, DPCI and SAPS would need to prioritise development of a state owned accommodation solution for DPCI. 

There are a number of challenges that had been identified and these included:

  • The current leasing process is inefficient and ineffective
  • Leases are procured on a reactive basis vs strategically
  • Can take up to 18 months to conclude procurement of accommodation
  • Procured space is not optimally utilized (archaic norms and standards
  • Insufficient contract management
  • Current rates are expensive and out of line with the market
  • Current rates not related to age and condition of buildings
  • Lack of commitment to transformation by industry
  • Market sell-off to new entrants at inflated prices
  • Sale of buildings that undo transformation initiatives of government
  • Poor maintenance of leased properties

Mr Serote indicated that PMTE in collaboration with the Office of the Chief Procurement Officer, National Treasury has embarked on SCM reforms from which this leasing framework was developed. The objectives of the framework are to reduce government rental expenditure, ensure effective and efficient delivery of accommodation to user departments and to shorten turnaround time on delivery of accommodation. There is also an emphasis on prioritising compliance to the constitutional National Treasury prescripts of procurement.  The period of the panel should not exceed three years and be reviewed once a year so as to allow for new entrants.  The framework, once approved by National Treasury, is expected to come into effect from 1 April 2017. The leasing framework will be approached in two main phases, the first phase will involve registration on the Panel and the second phase will involve the procurement of the accommodation from panel. 

Discussion

Ms Mmola wanted to know about the current status of the lease agreements on some of the accommodations identified. In relation to the matter of expiry of lease agreements, it would be important to ascertain whether the negotiations for the renewal of the leases had already taken place. What are the steps that are being taken to landlords that are failing to maintain these buildings as this was impacting on the work of DPCI/SAPS?

Ms Mabija asked if there was a particular reason why DPCI was using old SAPS buildings as this would surely have an impact on the quality of work to be done.

Mr Redelinghuys welcomed the interventions that had been undertaken to manage the situation but expressed concern that these interventions waited a bit long before taking drastic measures. It was good to hear that there is now a move towards buying the accommodations instead of leasing. It would perhaps be useful for the DPW to include the component of maintenance on their budget so that this would be an in house responsibility of the Department.

Mr Mbhele commented that one thing that was clear from the presentation was that there is lack of adherence to the basic principles. It was shocking to hear that only about 10 buildings are in a good state of habitability with the remaining 23 ranging from poor to extremely poor and this once again spoke to the seriousness of this problem. This was because of poor planning and poor management of the accommodations. What was currently happening to the buildings of the expired leases? There is absolutely no valid reason for a lease to expire before making a decision on the transition that would be required next.

Mr Groenewald emphasised that it was totally impossible to expect DPCI/ SAPS members to do their work effectively if only about 10 buildings are in a good state of habitability with the remaining 23 ranging from poor to extremely poor. It looked like the conditions under which DPCI/ SAPS members were working under was also a serious violation and breach of the Constitution.

The Chairperson also added that DPCI should be given appropriate tools and environment to conduct investigation in a secure and safety environment that would not compromise productivity. The Committee should ask the DPCI on how this problem of poor state of accommodations was impacting on its operation.

Lt Gen Bernard Ntlemeza, Head of Hawks, agreed that the poor state of accommodation had an impact on the operation of DPCI. The DPCI building in Bellville, Cape Town could fall anytime and this is likely to compromise the health and productivity of staff members of DPCI. There are also instances where DPCI shared buildings with tenants.

Mr Serote agreed with the Committee that the overall state of affairs of buildings that are being leased was not acceptable. The Department had embarked on a seven year turnaround plan and therefore PMTE had not reached even 100% of what ought to be done. It was currently taking up to 18 months for PMTE to finalise the leasing of a building and this was a legacy issue where PMTE did not fine-tune the requirements for accommodation. There were also instances where PMTE was not familiar with the market of leases and ended paying more than what ought to be paid. The reasons why the leases are expiring at the moment is because there is a gap in terms of doing away with the old way of doing things and the implementation of the new way of conducting the business. It is in this new regime where PMTE would be making acquisition of the buildings in phases and this was a lot more efficient.  There are specific mechanisms of procurement that would be used in the interim to deal with those leases that had expired and there was an agreement with the National Treasury on the use of this specific mechanism. PMTE would be going on a negotiated-based procedure basis that would ensure a response to the urgent requirement of buildings. There is also an engagement that is led by SAPS and DPCI on the specific requirements for the buildings and this would be based on the needs approach.

Mr Serote explained that it would firstly attend to the three lease agreements that had already expired and then they would start with a procurement agreement. It would be impossible for PMTE to agree that there should be an immediate vacation from those buildings where leases had expired. It is also true that the issue of proper planning had been the issue and this starts with the basic compliance to the Government Immovable Asset Management Act. It was the first time last year where PMTE ensured that there was a user asset management plan and this was starting to highlight the importance of the user requirements. DPCI was the first entity to give PMPT its user asset management plan, understanding that this is a massive operation. PMTE was frank and honest about the challenges that are being experienced and the strategies that had already been implemented in the management of the problem of leasing of buildings.

The Chairperson asked if there is a particular reason why there had not been any movement in terms of upgrading DPCI building in Bellville as it was already widely reported from last year that the DPCI members were working under horrendous conditions in the area.

Mr Serote responded that PMTE was still waiting for SAPS to finalise the process of allocating specific funds for the capital upgrade programme. The allocation of funds for something of this nature tended to take some time and it is a process that must be done within the prescripts. In essence, there were no funds for the capital upgrade of the debilitated building in Bellvillle.

Mr Mbhele wanted to know if there was difficulty in putting the landlords on terms. Was this a regulatory issue that was governing the tenants? The assumption is that the contract that was signed by the Department should be fairly clear about the terms and conditions and expectations between the two parties. The government could not be held ransom by landlords that are unable to fulfil the expectations in terms of the maintenance of buildings. Why would it take up to two years for the Department to deal with landlords that that seemed to fail to maintain the leased buildings?

Mr S Mhlongo (EFF) said he was appalled by the poor standard of buildings that the DPCI and SAPS members had to work under and this was something that needed to be dealt with promptly. Government should deal harshly with private property owners that seemed to fail to meet the requirements of the state obligations. Corruption was deeply embedded within the property management was clear in the Nkandla scandal. It was evident that the Public Works was a highly compromised Department.

Mr Serote clarified that indeed each and every contract is governed by terms and conditions but a tedious litigation is involved in the process where a contractual agreement was breached. In short, it was not easy to just terminate the contract.

The meeting was adjourned.            

 

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