PSC Commissioners: Shortlisting of candidates

Public Service and Administration

01 November 2016
Chairperson: Ms R Lesoma (ANC) (Acting)
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Meeting Summary

The Sub-Committee considered the short-listing of candidates for the PSC Commissioners.

The Committee short-listed candidates’ numbers: 8, 40, 51, 66, 67, 78, 86, 90, 116, 113, 120, 122, 124 and 126. Interviews of the short-listed candidates would take place on the 15 November 2016.

Committee Minutes of 14 October 2016 were adopted with amendments.
 

Meeting report

The Chairperson asked the Committee Secretary to explain the procedure they should follow in terms of always appointing an acting Chairperson.

The Committee Secretary said at the previous meeting there was a request from Members with regard to the issue of always appointing an acting Chairperson whenever the Committee sits the Secretariat always had to go out and find what was happening. His unit manager had clarified that the rules were silent on that issue, however the practice was that the acting chairperson be appointed every time the Committee meets. This Committee had previously reached a consensus that Ms Lesoma be the Acting Chairperson until there was clarity on the issue. This decision was indicated in the minutes of the Committee, which meant that with that consensus the Committee did not need to appoint an acting chairperson in every Committee meeting.

Mr van der Westhuizen (DA) proposed that this matter should be on the agenda of the Portfolio Committee meeting tomorrow because somebody might be prejudiced with that process.

The Chairperson agreed with Mr van der Westhuizen that this matter should also be clarified in the Portfolio Committee just as was done in the Sub-Committee.

Minutes of 14 October 2016
The Chairperson said the purpose of the meeting of the 14 October 2016 was to get a legal comprehensive of the words “fit and proper” in the act and how it directed the Committee in terms of the posts they were dealing with. The main issue was that it was too summarised and the Legal Adviser was requested to explain to Members so that they understood the meaning of fit and proper in this regard. It was agreed to dispose with that matter of fit and proper and deal with the issue of criteria in today’s meeting.

The Content Advisor said the main issue was on page 2 of the minutes, which was a request to attach the legal opinion in the body of the minutes. And on point 2.1 there was an attachment as annexure A so that whoever read the minutes would be referred to annexure A as legal opinion.

On the resolutions, they amended 3.2 where Mr M Booi (ANC) raised some concern in terms of officials doing some summary during the short-listing on behalf of the Committee. That summary was revised and everything was as it was in the minutes.

The Chairperson said the Sub-Committee had also agreed to look at the criteria on the day of the short-listing. Point 3.5 was also recrafted because it was initially thought the media would be mobilised to come and record the proceedings, but that they would use the Parliamentary recording systems in the short-listing.

Ms Z Dlamini-Dubazana (ANC) asked if these issues were matters arising from the minutes.

The Chairperson responded they had to adopt these minutes and if there were matters arising they would then deal with them.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana said she would not agree with the adoption of these minutes without 3.3 being clarified to her.

The Chairperson said 3.3 would pre-empt the criteria they had to agree upon because on 14 October they were not dealing with the criteria but were looking at the legalities. Therefore, they should take out 3.3 and discuss it at the stage when they were dealing with criteria if some Members felt strongly so.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana said that in that meeting it was said a candidate was affiliated to a political party might not be eligible to serve as a PSC Commissioner and should not be short-listed.

The Content Adviser clarified that a candidate could be short-listed even if he/she was affiliated to a political party but on appointment he/she must resign from that particular political party.

The Chairperson said they should not discuss this issue because it bordered on the line of the criteria which would be discussed later in the agenda.

Mr van der Westhuizen said at that meeting they would start with the first round of selection by setting some basic criteria based on the law. Therefore, they should go back to the Public Service Act, and what could be problematic with the minutes was the word “affiliation” because they were all affiliated to political parties.

The Chairperson said the word “affiliation” raised by Honourable van der Westhuizen was not the word which was the purpose of the meeting of 14 October and as already stated the purpose of that meeting was to seek clarity from the Legal Adviser on the words “fit and proper” so that they could arrive at the criteria for short-listing.

Mr van der Westhuizen objected that this whole process was to set criteria and to select a Commissioner, they did not have meetings first dealing with other staff and then the appointment of Commissioner for PSC. They had asked the officials to start with the initial 15 candidates and it was where the document came from which they would use.

The Chairperson said they were not denying that but the Committee resolved the following: On that day, they said they would mirror the appointment of the new public protector processes.  That was what they were doing today, including the Legal Adviser who was with them until they concluded this process.

Mr M Dirks (ANC) said what Honourable van der Westhuizen was saying and what the act stated was not in line with what the minutes were saying. The minutes spoke of political affiliation and should be corrected because the act does not state that the PSC Commissioner could not be affiliated to a political party and could not be an office bearer of a political party.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana seconded what Honourable Dirks said.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Criteria
Having received the document, the Committee began engaging with the names.

Mr M Ntombela (ANC) said they should look at a person with a strong work ethic with integrity, have previous experience in public service, and possessing skills of monitoring and evaluation. It should be a person who could technically give expression to the functions of the PSC, to understand the responsibility of the PSC and its mandate. The person should have skills in senior management with a clear vision of the National Development Plan (NDP). These were the things the Committee should take into consideration as they short-listed.

Mr Dirks said the candidate should understand government policies and have knowledge of a developmental state.

Mr S Mncwabe (NFP) added that the person must have experience in public work and be experienced in senior public service. Those that served on boards should also be considered because they might have vast experience.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana proposed the Committee should act cautiously and stick to the law and the admin staff should formulate the criteria based on section 196 and section 197 of the Constitution. As legislators, their powers were derived from the law and the questions they would ask should be based on the law.

The Chairperson agreed with Ms Dlamini-Dubazana but they were not dealing with questions but rather with the criteria that would assist in formulating the questions.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana said they could ask the questions but they must be within the context of the law and that was the criteria they needed to agree on. Also, the Committee needed to ask how many people it was going to interview, whether 5 or 10.
 
Mr Mncwabe said they had not yet reached that point of questioning but rather they should first formulate the criteria of short-listing and then after they would look at questions they would impose to short-listed candidates.

The Chairperson said it was the same thing Members did in the minutes of 14 October 2016. They were a step ahead and needed to move slowly and deal with one issue then move to the next. The Committee also had to agree on the number of candidates they wanted to short-list.

Mr van der Westhuizen said they should keep in mind of the logistics of bringing a big group of candidates and therefore suggest that they short-list at least 12 candidates.

Mr Ntombela said the interviews should not take more than a day and agreed with the short-listing of 12 candidates.

Ms W Newhoudt-Druchen (ANC) agreed with the short-listing of 12 candidates.

Mr Dirks also agreed with the short-listing of 12 candidates.

Short-listing
Mr van der Westhuizen said some existing PSC Commissioners had reapplied, but they should also look at new candidates and take the existing Commissioners as benchmark unless new candidates surpasssed in terms of experience.

The Chairperson said candidates numbers 40 and 8 were existing PSC Commissioners.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana asked how they would implement what Mr Westhuizen had said.

Mr Dirks said they would consider what Honourable Westhuizen had raised.

Mr Mncwabe proposed numbers 78 and 112, which was Silwane and Mavuso.                   
           
Mr Dirk proposed numbers 116 Richard Sizani, 51 Jack Madlala, and 114 Motsepe.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen proposed number 23 who she believed had huge experience in the NGO sector and board management experience.

Mr van der Westhuizen objected and was withdrawing from this process because the criteria were flawed. He thought they would first go through all the CVs and then select all the names.

Mr Mncwabe said Mr van der Westhuizen must select all the names of candidates he wished to be short-listed so that his point could be accommodated.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana said in their last meeting the resolution of the Committee was a summary list of candidates, which was something that was agreed upon.

Mr van der Westhuizen asked what they meant about senior management, technical competency and experience.

Mr Dirks said now they were bothering on the issue of qualifications and were not selecting names for short-listing.

Mr Ntombela said senior management was not the only criteria they were looking at and the issue of criteria had already been dealt with. Mr van der Westhuizen had proposed that they should short-list up to 12 candidates because of the logistics of bringing a large group to the interviews.

The Chairperson pleaded with Mr van der Westhuizen not to withdraw from this process and to select all the names he wanted to be short-listed because the Committee had dealt with the issue of criteria and needed to move forward with the issue of short-listing candidates.

Ms Dlamini-Dubazana selected candidate number 8 because she still served as a PSC Commissioner and had vast board experience.

Mr van der Westhuizen said candidate number 16 did not have necessary qualification to be selected as PSC Commissioner.

Mr Ntombela selected candidate number 23 because of his qualifications and vast experience in senior management.

Mr van der Westhuizen said candidate number 21 qualified in terms of the criteria, but candidate number 30 did not qualify.

Mr Mncwabe said candidate number 40 qualified.

Mr van der Westhuizen said candidates no, 45 and Number 50 were out and did not qualify.

Mr Dirks said candidate Number 51 qualified because of management skills, but candidate Number 52 did not qualify because he lacked experience and management skills.

Mr Mncwabe selected candidates numbers 66, 67, 86, 90, 116, 113, 120, and 122.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen selected candidates 124 and 126.

The Chairperson asked the Committee Secretary to read all the numbers selected by the Members of the Committee.

The Committee Secretary said the Committee had selected 14 candidates as follows: numbers 8, 40, 51, 66, 67, 78, 86, 90, 116, 113, 120, 122, 124 and 126.

The Content Advisor said that from 2 to 11 November 2016 they security checks would be run on the short-listed candidates. On 15 November 2016, they would conduct the interviews, and on 23 November 2016 they would adopt the report.

The Chairperson said this concluded the short-listing process. Interviews would take place on 15 November 2016 for one day and 30 minutes would be given for each short-listed candidate to answer questions. The support staff would prepare the questions for the Committee and that covered the mandate of the PSC, human resource, qualifications, experience, governance issues, etc.

The Chairperson thanked Members for their cooperation and inputs. She also thanked the support staff for the work it has done in terms of this process.

The meeting was adjourned.

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