Budget Hearings: Civilian Secretariat for Police and Independent Police Investigative Directorate

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12 April 2016
Chairperson: Mr F Beukman (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee was briefedefed on the Budgets and Annual Performance Plans 2016/17 for the Independent Police Investigative Directorate and the Civilian Secretariat for Police. Before the briefing, opportunity was afforded to civil society organisations to provide their input on the budget of the SA Police Service. The Nyanga Community Policing Forum spoke to the need for additional resources for SAPS in Nyanga. Particularly more members were needed; the Community Policing Forum was promised additional members would be sent but the full allocation had not arrived. Sector policing was not working, which was a challenge given the fact that murders were still extremely high in Nyanga. The Community Policing Forum noted that other law enforcement agencies were not assisting and that the Nyanga police station should be classified as a gang station. Although it was not reported on, gang violence was a huge issue in Nyanga. There was a call for a second police station and for the intervention of the Hawks for specialised investigation into gang and taxi violence.

The Parliamentary Budget Office provided very brief input on the achievement of targets contained in the National Development Plan and the extent of alignment between the plans of SA Police Service and the National Development Plan.

The Committee heard from the Western Cape Province Community Policing Board who spoke to the need for the SA Police Service budget in the province to be proportional to the population growth in the Western Cape, thoughts on the current SA Police Service budget, the need to review certain policies and strategies, the need to build relationships with the community and the huge divide between input, consultation and delivery.

The SA Policing Union raised many challenges they had issues with and spoke to their thoughts on the budget per SA Police Service programme, top-heavy management, restructuring, the acting of subordinates, closing of dockets and expenditure.

Members highlighted the importance of systems management in policing matched by skilled expertise and intelligence-led policing and questioned the relationship between the Community Policing Forums and the ward councillors, why other law enforcement agencies were missing in actions and thoughts of the top management of SA Police Services now. Members noted that the value of the SA Police Services budget was not seen despite their reporting of good expenditure and limited wasteful expenditure to the Committee. It was also noted that it was disheartening to hear that murders were still an issue in Nyanga.

The Independent Police Investigative Directorate then presented their 2016/17 budgets and Annual Performance Plan, beginning by looking at the strategic overview, 2016/17 Medium Term Expenditure Framework budget key priority areas, Estimates of National Expenditure key performance indicators and the 2016/17 budget performance per programme. Further financial information was provided on the 2016 Medium Term Expenditure Framework budget allocation per programme and per economic classification, comparison of the budget allocation per programme between 2015/16 and 2016/17, 2016/17 budget allocation per province, feedback on engagement with National Treasury and priorities not funded in the reprioritised 2016 Medium Term Expenditure Framework budget allocation. The rest of the presentation then looked at programme and sub-programme information in terms of purpose, strategic objectives, indicators and targets for the programmes of the entity, namely:

- Programme One: Administration

- Programme Two: Investigations and Information Management

- Programme Three: Legal Services

- Programme Four: Compliance Monitoring and Stakeholder Management

The Committee was concerned about the number of senior programme managers in acting positions and sought assurance of leadership stability. Assurance was also required regarding the Marikana investigation that it would be carried out thoroughly, appropriately and within the Independent Police Investigative Directorate's current baseline. Further questions were raised around the achievement of hard targets set, new targets set and targets removed, particularly in terms of consultation with Community Policing Forums and the Civilian Secretariat for Police. Discussion was had on the awareness of training of SA Police Service members and whether this was done at the expense of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, clarity on the reallocation of programme three activities to programme one, administrative capacity in programme one and if budget cuts affected organisational structure operationally; cutting of the budget was a concern of the Committee. Other issues raised included backlogs and bottlenecks, the risks of allocating a very low amount to machinery and equipment, policing powers and the need for dedicated, in-house legal expertise for serious investigation.

The Civil Secretariat for Police then presented its 2016/17 budget overview. After introduction, the presentation covered the purpose, strategic objectives and sub-programmes of the programmes of the entity namely:

- Programme One: Administration

- Programme Two: Intersectoral Coordination and Strategic Partnerships

- Programme Three: Legislation and Policy Development

- Programme Four: Civilian Oversight, Monitoring and Evaluation

The rest of the presentation covered financial information in terms of a financial overview of 2014/15, audited expenditure outcomes 2014/15, financial overview of 2015/16 and audited expenditure outcomes for 2015/16. Further information was provided on preliminary expenditure outcomes for 2015/16, expenditure carried over from 2015/16 financial year, the medium term budget, a summary of Estimates of National Expenditure and economic classification and programme expenditure. The presentation also looked at the status of posts at the end of January 2015, planned action on current vacancies, the status on current critical vacant posts and progress made on Committee recommendations.

The Committee emphasised that there was a need for clear targets and indicators in the presentation of the Annual Performance Plan for oversight and that there was a need to fill vacancies, especially at a high level, to ensure long-term stability in the Secretariat. Questions were posed around the nature of interaction with other institutions on the budget namely the DNA Board because there seemed to be communication issues. Members pointedly asked how the Board's budget was determined if the mandate was unfunded, if this budget was ring fenced and what the approach would be with the Board moving forward. Discussion was had on legislation to come before the Committee, the procedure the White Papers followed and their implementation, current status of the monitoring and evaluation tool, recommendations of the Farlam Commission and if the audit and risk committee was comprised of external individuals. Other questions were directed at the reason for the increase in budget for contractors under economic classification, the increased budget for advertising, the strategic role of the Civil Secretariat for Police in SA Police Service restructuring processes, how the SA Police Service research unit related to Civil Secretariat for Police research, if Information Communication Technology was fully functional or if the Secretariat depended on SA Police Services and if there were coordination with provinces to ensure there was a common approach in supporting Community Policing Forums. 

Meeting report

Committee Business

The Chairperson noted that the Committee was under huge pressure to finalise budget reports this week because of the budget vote debates in Parliament. There would be no Committee meeting the next day but Members were scheduled to meet on Friday to adopt the various Committee reports. There was a suggestion that this be done on Thursday afternoon but Members would be informed timeously because it depended on when the reports were ready to be adopted.

The Chairperson highlighted that the Committee was due to meet with civil society last week Tuesday but the meeting was cancelled. Time had now been available to afford this opportunity to the Nyanga Community Police Forum, the Parliamentary Budget Office, the Western Cape Policing Board and the South African Policing Union (SAPU).

Nyanga Community Policing Forum

Mr Martin Makhasi, Chairperson of the Nyanga CPF, noted that the last time he met with the Committee was in 2014 and his input would mainly focus on the request for additional resources from the SA Police Service (SAPS) for Nyanga. In 2014 in a meeting with the Committee, the then National Commissioner indicated that SAPS would provide 48 Visible Policing (VISPOL) members and 10 detectives. It was discovered that because of the process of re-enlistment in SAPS, Nyanga only received 19 members with two members from the flying squad and another two members. The community was also waiting on eight Tactical Response Team (TRT) members who were promised – he was still waiting to hear if these members were coming to Nyanga or if they would be deployed to the overall cluster. This year in 2016, there were eight SAPS vehicles damaged in front of the station and all the tyres were slashed. A young boy was arrested and when he committed the act he was high on drugs. This spoke to the fact that, as he had said all along, where the Nyanga police station was situated was not safe for the public and the members that were working there. Almost on a daily basis the SAPS vehicles were damaged and vandalised.

Another challenge was that sector policing was not functioning effectively in the station. The new Provincial Commissioner thought there needed to be more visibility so the station commander was forced to use the sector managers for this and effectively this meant there was no sector policing currently in Nyanga. In the last financial year 2015/16, there had been a decrease of 20 murders so now there were 280 murders. In the eyes of law-abiding citizens, 280 murders were too many; even one murder was too many. Whilst there was an appreciation that the rate of murders was going down, car hijackings were on the increase; a hijacking took place almost every third day of the week. Added to this was housebreaking. He did not know where the other crime fighting agencies were. The workload of the SAPS was too great and therefore other agencies needed to come on board but there seemed not to be success. The City of Cape Town was engaged on having traffic services visible to the community along with metro police law enforcement. The taxi association was engaged to help ease the major traffic congestion in peak hours and they had now made marshals available performing small traffic duties to ensure there was no traffic congestion and this contribution was appreciated. This came with a price, however, for the CPF and SAPS to negotiate with the city traffic services to not arrest the traffic drivers for outstanding fines but obviously this could not be done.

In his view, Nyanga police station was supposed to be classified as a gang station. Although people said Nyanga did not have gangs, this was not true. These gangs killed; just last night he received messages of shooting in the area. There were two kinds of gangs in the area and recently four SAPS members came under serious ambush when searching for suspects. The members were attacked and two SAPS vehicles were completely damaged – he did not know how those members survived but it was important that the Committee knew of these gangs operating particularly in one area in Nyanga. There were also those involved in cash-in-transit, fraud and others were responsible for killings in the community. This was why the appeal to the Committee was that Nyanga be classified as a gang station because these people were ruthless even operating in the day to strike fear into the community.

Mr Makhasi highlighted the issue of the second police station either to be located at Brown’s Farm or in Samora. Of the 280 murdered noted before, Brown’s Farm alone contributed 104, hence the issue of the second police station needed to be prioritised. The CPF also asked that all SAPS members located in Nyanga but were taken away to work in projects or do other things must return to Nyanga as a matter of urgency because they were needed. On the issue of safety it was asked that the street adjacent to the police station be converted to a non-motorised area to give enough parking for SAPS vehicles. Public Works could also be approached to assist in erecting a fence. A matter that had been raised for 20 years was the bottle store behind the police station; serious assistance was needed to move the bottle store away from this space.

A SAPS national intervention team was deployed to Nyanga from 28 – 31 January led by Maj. Gen. Charles Johnson from Pretoria. From what he could remember from the report, the only unit in the station that was working effectively was the delivery of exhibits; there were serious issues with all the other components. 2000 dockets were identified for the police to reopen and re-investigate; 80% of these dockets were murder cases. It was asked that the Nyanga station from beginning of February to end March, at least have covered 1700 dockets with the lot to be completed by end July.

There was also a request that the Hawks came into Nyanga if they had sufficient capacity, not questioning the competency of the local detectives, some of the cases needed highly trained specialised people to investigate especially those related to taxi violence and the gang murders taking place in the area. Looking at the modus operandi of the gangs in Nyanga, it was a very sophisticated group of people.

In conclusion Mr Makhasi noted that black lives do matter. Almost ten years later, discussions on murder were still ongoing in Nyanga and the CPF did not see any serious effort from SAPS to ensure that the area was assisted to deal with the challenge. 280 murders were as if there was a war zone.       

Parliamentary Budget Office

Mr Dumisani Jantjies, PBO Deputy Director: Finance, relayed apologies from the Director of the PBO who could not attend. In 2014, the Speaker asked the PBO to look at the National Development Plan (NDP) achievements by government – outcome three: all people in SA are and should feel safe, applied to the Committee. The PBO looked at whether the Department’s plans were aligned with this NDP outcome and the 2014-2019 Medium Term Strategic Framework was used as the main document to compare its targets with the NDP to assess alignment between the two. Out of the 66 targets, only 19 were achieved within the cluster. There were concerns about corrupt activities and protection of whistle blowers.

Western Cape Provincial Community Police Board

Ms G Lukas, WCPCPB Deputy Chairperson, felt the budget for the Western Cape should be proportional to its 2016/2019 population growth statistics. Additionally the inclusion of the provincial/cluster community police board on the SAPS funding and project committees should include budget allocation to support the functionality and delivery of CPF and CP boards. The sector policing strategy/policy should improve training, service delivery and the relationship with the community. It was also important to address the SAPS/CPF code in relation to donations/sponsorships, as this was not good practice. More attention needed to be paid to the white paper on transforming public service delivery to ensure that all parties had the opportunity to give inputs and this needed to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

Capacity and training needed to be improved for the SAPS ranks below Captain to improve community interaction building and improve and build relationships with all community structures equitably – there was a tendency from SAPS to only target the neighbourhood watches and armed response for interaction by this consultation needed to occur on a broader level. The cluster budget was to be increased proportionate to the larger clusters and attention needed to be paid to allocating the budget for the establishment of urban/rural mixed police stations. A policy needed to be developed and implemented on the victim support friendly services. In terms of budget, the budget for detective services and crime intelligence needed to be increased to improve delivery while the budget for protection and security services could be reduced. The call was for the Committee to really look at CPFs because nowhere in the budget were they addressed. CPFs were established to foster relationships between the police and communities but they enjoyed very little support and to make an impact, funding was needed. The Western Cape was riddled by murders, gangs and drugs and in their view, SAPS was not resourced enough to be able to deal with this.

Ms L Ashton, WCPCPB Secretary, noted the huge divide between input, consultation and delivery. It affected delivery when people were in the same position in the same station for 10 or 15 years while there was a lot of change at the Commander level when it was in fact at the lower ranks where delivery occurred. The budget and resource allocation ultimately had an effect on the daily lives of the community. 

South African Policing Union (SAPU)

Mr Mpho Kwinika, SAPU President, noted that, as an organisation, SAPU supported the endeavours by the authorities to provide the ever-needed resources to enable SAPS to fulfil its mandate of fighting crime. The principle was that if there were challenges, they were raised with the relevant authorities. SAPU strove to engage constructively with the authorities on issues that required their attention in order to elicit the necessary corrections, within the parameters of the programmes, and hopefully with the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigations (DPCI) soon becoming its own programme, the submissions was zoomed on vacant funded posts, top structure of the SAPS, restructuring, ranks, the NDP, closed dockets, discipline, crime scenes, specialised investigations and intelligence products.

SAPU commended the Acting National Commissioner for speeding up the filling of vacant and funded posts on the level of senior management. During the past nine financial years, 2007/08 – 2015/16, the top structure of SAPS (General, Lieutenant Generals appointed as Divisional National Commissioners, as Divisional Commissioners and Provincial Commissioners) consisted of 27, 26, 27, 30, 33, 30, 32, 34 and 35 posts respectively. This expansion continued to occur despite a submission to the House in 2012 about a possible top heavy structure. While SAPU may raise its perceptions of top heavy or top light structure, they called upon management to follow protocols and be informed by the structured results. In this regard, management should allow Organisational Development to conduct an unfettered feasibility study that was not restrained to produce an already implemented structure.

The reason for the chronic mobility of the structure was that changes were not informed by a feasibility study. As an example, a structure that was implemented on 1 September 2013 without a work study was only approved on 24 September 2014. This anomaly was curable by following the protocols regarding the changes of structures.

Mr Kwinika observed that the latest structure had improvised posts of National Head: Management Advisory Services and three Regional Commissioners for the regions A, B and C. Even though the previous ranks of the incumbents were clear, SAPU was not aware as to what ranks they were going to hold and the regulation on which such ranks were based. When seniority was confused, discipline was eroded. Once more, confusion was exacerbated by the appointment of senior managers as Lieutenant General when such rank was abolished. If the leadership wanted the rank of Lieutenant General, a proper approach was to advise the Minister to amend the regulations and create the same.

Furthermore, in the process of these movements, some senior managers were promoted while others were demoted. SAPU congratulated those who had been elevated and condemned the unprocedural demotion of others. The fact that others were quietly accepting demotions did not legitimise such practices but hatched unhappiness. Correcting this practice was insurmountable.

The Punjab Police in India compiled a legislated list of seniority. Regulation 804 of the Western Australia Police Force Regulations, 1979 required a seniority list of all its members. In our situation, Regulation 8 (1) of SAPS regulations, 1964, was the foundation for seniority. Seniority numbers can be inserted in the organisational structure that formed part of the Annual Report with the National Commissioner followed by the most senior Lieutenant General (appointed as Deputy National Commissioner) to the most junior Lieutenant General (appointed as Provincial Commissioner).

Over and above, officials with authority to appoint members in acting positions must understand seniority and its implications, in the same way that it would be odd to appoint a Minister to act as State President while the Deputy President was available, the same applied in SAPS. It was unhealthy for subordinates to act above their superiors, instruct them, appoint them in positions senior to their own, and when the acting period lapsed, they reverted to their positions and took instructions from the very same persons that they appointed. One could apply the wisdom reflected in section 17CA (12) (a-e) of the SAPS Act 68 of 1995 in relation to appointments in the DPCI. The same clarity reigned supreme amongst our judges. Paramount amongst these was an outcry to amen the Police Act, which was long overdue.

Mr Kwinika said the fact that appointments included the positions highlighted in the NDP, indicated the authorities for inaction (interaction?) towards implementation thereof. The appointment of the National Commissioner and the Deputies could only be standardised if Chapter 11 of the NDP were implemented. In the interim, National Instruction that was designed to guide the selection of National Commissioner and Deputies could be helpful. A question to be answered was what process would be followed to fill the position of the National Commissioner in case the current incumbent’s contract was not renewed on 30 June 2017 of if he/she vacated the office earlier. The fingers were inclined to point more on lawmakers rather than implementers.

A trend of closing dockets while detectives were still carrying them was unwise. It discounted the workload and might create a perception of effectiveness whereas the operators were overloaded. Consequently, when questions in Parliament were answered on the basis of information on the Crime Administration System (CAS), Parliament would be unconsciously misled. It would be told that a case was closed when it was in fact still open. It was therefore important that the basics applied in the detectives and extended to administration.

Management was urged to maintain discipline consistently across the board. If junior members were seriously visited when they faulted, the same should apply to senior managers. Different treatment conveyed the messages of despair to subordinates.

In the 2014/15 Annual Report, SAPS reported fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the amount of R1 441 716 – 64. The expenditure on licences, accommodation, incorrect payments and travel tickets were a serious concern as they were preventable. SAPU further hoped that the irregular expenditure of R279, 9 million relating to SAPS/SITA contracts, had been addressed. Such mismanagement was not warranted.

Mr Kwinika then looked at SAPS programme two: visible policing noting that it was the backbone of policing in SA. The success of policing depended mostly on a sound working relationship between the police and the community they served. In order to accomplish this idea, SAPU expected exerted efforts by police leadership to promote CPFs. Harmonious relationships with the community isolated criminals and helped in reducing attacks on members of the Service.

Looking at programme three: detective services, in the year of detectives (2012/13), computer literacy was one of the priorities. The purchase, distribution and redistribution of computers had left the detectives in the same status where they were before the declaration. The implication of this decision was pushing back the realisation of e-dockets. To realise this ideal, attention must be given to improve the computer literacy of the detectives.

The Criminal Record Centre must increase the visitation to the scenes of crime as this would enhance the chances of detection of perpetrators. Although it was expected that all scenes of crime as reported by the detectives were visited, comparison between the number of scenes visited and the number of reported incidents requiring fingerprint, was important. 

The DPCI should pay more attention to Organised Crime Projects Investigations. (OCPI) The number of suspects arrested in projects and prosecutions in terms of the Prevention of Organised Crime Act 121 of 1998, should be made visible. SAPU challenged management to ensure that serious organised crime, serious commercial crime and serious corruption feature prominently on the measurement. There should also be clear distinction between corruption handled by the Detective Service and serious corruption handled by the DPCI.

Finality must be reached regarding the separation of DPCI sub programme into its own programme. If not feasible, let it be so declared so that it did not hang any further.

Mr Kwinika then turned to programme four: crime intelligence, noting that it should also have targets whose impact on crime was measurable. Reporting the quality of products alone did not guarantee the required quality. The programme must indicate the number of Organised Criminal Groups that had been identified and the number of OCPI that were registered as a result of its information.

As the number of personnel counted in crime intelligence incorporated the covert and overt units, the global financial budgeted figure of the secret service account must be indicated. This would minimise the chances of over-resourcing, which triggered temptations. 

The programme must be able to indicate the percentage of successful information as compared with the quality of products produced. Noting that in 2014/15, 335 314 operational analysis reports were produced, it was crucial to measure the success achieved as a result of these products. This measurement would ensure that the products translated into positive results and not bare figures with no bearing on the success of operations.  SAPU was satisfied with programme five: protection and security services.

Mr Kwinika concluded by saying that SAPU shall continue to constructively engage and support management to ensure that SAPS did not fail in its constitutional obligation of fighting crime. 


Mr Z Mbhele (DA) thought most of the challenges and frustrations highlighted by civil society spoke to points the Committee made before and he echoed that everything really came down to system management – supply chain management, resource management etc. The other half of policing was skilled expertise and intelligence-led policing being optimal to tackle problems like gangs. Year on year the SAPS Annual Report reflected 100% expenditure of budget with surprisingly minimal irregular and wasteful expenditure but one was notseeing “bang for our buck” or targets, value or being met given the size of the budget and mandate of SAPS. 

Mr M Redelinghuys (DA) found it disheartening to hear continued challenges in Nyanga when for many years it was known as the murder capital of SA. He was happy to hear the national intervention team was there but the question was what was next, although the question was better directed at SAPS. He asked the Nyanga CPF and Western Cape Policing Board what their relationship was like with ward councillors in relation to their work across the province. Where he lived in the city of Tshwane, the ward councillor was active.  

Ms Ashton said that it depended really on each ward – sometimes there was a vast disconnect but councillors did need to come on board. She could not speak for all municipalities but there was a disconnect in Cape Town particularly.

Ms Lucas added that it was of concern that the relationship between CPFs and the City of Cape Town was not good. CPFs felt that they did not get recognition or the necessary support and this needed to be improved because the voice of the community needed to be heard.

Mr Makhasi said there were seven councillors under Nyanga but there was no relationship with them. It was not fair to only single out the councillors as it applied to the Members of Parliament as well. On several occasions the ward councillors were invited to meetings to share with them what was happening in their wards but they did not seem to be interested – it might be because the CPFs were an unfunded mandate to their understanding, he was not sure. The only time the councillors interacted were when they themselves were faced with challenges but the CPF was trying to engage.

Mr J Maake (ANC) noted that the Nyanga CPF highlighted that other law enforcement agencies were missing in action, what reasons were given for them missing in action?

Mr Makhasi indicated that the official line was that the City traffic services and other agencies were under-staffed but the unofficial line was that they were scared noting that it was not an easy environment to operate in. 

Mr T Mulaudzi (EFF) was concerned that no one spoke about the police reservists; these were the people to give information to the police and assisting in cases. 

The Chairperson wanted to get a sense from SAPU on top management now that individuals were coming into the fray and were maybe under-utilised before.

Mr Kwinika responded that the Union understood the role of police management in managing the Service but the Union played an oversight role over what was done to ensure conditions were conducive to members in that environment. If this were successful then the public would get the best from these policemen. SAPU had not met with management to understand what it was they really wanted to achieve. The police were warned that they must not misuse section 35.

The Chairperson thanked civil society for their input and noted that the Committee would meet with the intervention teams in May.  

Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID)

Mr Israel Kgamanyane, IPID Acting Executive Director, began by outlining the strategic overview of IPID, noting that the Department remained committed to implementing the results-based management approach to organisational performance that was adopted in 2012/13. The alignment of the Department’s strategic and annual performance plan (2016/17) further gave effect to the results-based management approach. In line with driving towards achievement of outcomes, the strategic goals and objectives of the Department were linked to Outcomes 3 and 12 of the Medium Term Strategic Framework (2015-2019). As such, this necessitated the Department to adjust some of its strategic objectives as reflected in Annexure A of the tabled APP (2016/17). The Department’s key priorities over the medium term remained “to strengthen the investigative capacity” including improving the quality of training for investigators and the guidelines, systems and procedures used for investigation and reporting, capacitating the NSIT units at provincial level and the implementation of Section 23 of IPID Act. The Department would further conduct research studies on factors underlying the high intake of assault cases while at the same time ensure awareness trainings  (SAPS stations lectures). The Department’s fiscal envelope had been greatly affected by budget reprioritisation as a result of the student protests that took place in 2015/16.  As a result, the Department continued to have unfunded mandates that were not accommodated by the MTEF allocation and these included: Implementation of Marikana Recommendations, funding of the ICT infrastructure and IPID Expansion Strategy, among other things.                                                  

Mr P Setshedi, IPID Acting CFO, then looked at the 2016 MTEF budget key priority areas, which included:

(a) Investigative Capacity:  The spending over medium term would continue to strengthen the Department’s investigative capacity in order to conduct successful and high quality investigations.

(b) Awareness training for police officials on key provisions of the IPID Act (2011): The Department would educate police officials at all police stations on key provisions of the IPID Act

(c) Personnel capacity and relevant expertise: As the nature of the Department’s work was labour intensive, 71.8% of the Directorate’s medium term budget went to Compensation of employees, with the core service delivery programme, Investigation and Information Management, receiving the bulk of this budget.

IPID Estimates of National Expenditure (ENE) key performance indicators included:

- Percentage of cases registered and allocated within 72 hours of written notification

- Percentage of investigations of deaths while in police custody that were decision ready

- Percentage f investigations of deaths as a result of police action that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of rape while in police custody that were decision ready

- Number of community outreach events conducted per year

Members were then taken through the budgetary baseline allocations to IPID for the MTEF 2016 - 2018. In terms of the budget programme performance for 2016/17, The Department had four budget programmes:

            (i) Programme 1: Administration

            (ii) Programme 2: Investigations and Information Management

            (iii) Programme 3: Legal Services

            (iv) Programme 4: Compliance Monitoring and Stakeholder Management

Plans at mid-term budget adjustments included reallocation of activities of Programme 3 (Legal Services) to Programme 1: Administration to form part of support services to the core business (Programme 2: Investigations and Information Management) based on the evaluation of the programme’s performance. There were no major adjustments to the Strategic Plan (2015-2020) that was tabled in March 2015, except for minor adjustments to the strategic objectives as reflected in Annexure A of the Annual Performance Plans (2016/17).

Mr Setshedi then went through the 2016 MTEF budget allocation per programme, per economic classification and per province, a comparison of the budget allocation per programme between 2015/16 and 2016/17 and feedback on the engagement with National Treasury on the 2016 MTEF budget.  Priorities not funded in the reprioritised 2016 METF budget allocation included:

- Implementation of the IPID Expansion Strategy to accommodate additional regional and District Offices

- Implementation of Marikana Commission report recommendations that required multidisciplinary investigation

-The procurement of access control and biometrics for all district offices in order to comply with the minimum information security standards (MISS)

- Capacitation of the Directorate executive management in line with the proposal made by other entities within the ministry of police/security cluster

- Replacement of information communication technology (ICT) infrastructure and equipment due to the warranty expiry   

Mr Takalani Nemusimbori, Acting Programme Manager: Administration, took the Committee through the programme and its sub-programmes. The purpose of the programme was to provide overall management of IPID and support services including strategic support to the Department. Looking at the adjusted strategic objectives of the programme for the budget year and over the MTEF period, indicators included:

- Number of employees trained as per the IPID training plan

- Improved levels of risk maturity

- Level of percentage of vacancy rate per year

- Percentage implementation of annual internal audit plan

- Number of reviews of organisational structure conducted

- Number of reports produced on implementation of risk management principles

- Number of statistical reports produced on IPID's performance

Mr Tlou Kgomo, IPID Acting Programme Manager: Investigations and Information Management, took the Committee through programme two: investigations and information management. The purpose of the programme was to strengthen the Department’s oversight role over the police by conducting investigations in line with the powers granted by the IPID Act (2011), making appropriate recommendations on investigations in the various investigation categories and submitting feedback to complainants. The programme would also enhance efficiency in case management and maintain a relationship with other state security agencies such as SAPS, the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA), CSP and community stakeholders through on-going national and provincial engagement forums. The programme consisted of the following sub-programmes/ components:

- Investigation Management

- Investigation Services

- Information Management

In terms of the strategic objectives for the budget year and over the MTEF, indicators for the programme included:

- Number of investigators trained on specialised services as per investigation training plan

- Percentage of decision ready cases finalised

- Percentage of cases registered and allocated within 72hours of written notification

- Number of statistical reports generated as per section 9 of the IPID Act

- Percentage of all active decision ready investigations finalised

- Percentage of investigation of deaths in police custody that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of deaths as a result of police action that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of discharge of an official firearm by a police officer that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of rape by a police officer that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of rape while in police custody that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of torture that that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of corruption that were decision ready

- Percentage of investigations of other criminal and misconduct matters referred to in section 28 (1) (h) and 35

(1) (b) of the IPID Act that were decision ready

- Number of systemic corruption cases identified and approved

- Number of approved systemic corruption cases that were decision ready

- Percentage of all backlog decision ready cases finalised (excluding cases of systemic corruption)

- Percentage of criminal recommendation reports referred to the NPA within 30 days of the recommendation report being signed off

- Percentage of disciplinary recommendation reports referred to SAPS and/or Municipal Police Services within 30 days of recommendation report being signed off

Mr O Mocwaledi, IPID Acting Programme Manager: Legal Services, took the Committee through the programme noting that its purpose was to provide overall legal advice, guidance and support, manage the legal obligations and ensure constitutional, legislative as well as regulatory compliance by the Department. The programme also provided support to the Department as a whole and to investigators in particular. The programme consisted of the following sub-programmes/ components:

  1. Legal Support and Administration
  2. Litigation Advisory Services
  3. Investigation Advisory Services

In terms of the strategic objectives for the budget year and over the MTEF, indicators for the programme included:

- Percentage of legal advice provided to investigators from the total requests received

- Percentage of written legal opinions provided to the Department within 21 working days of request

- Percentage of arbitration, civil and labour litigation matters processed

- Percentage of oral legal advice provided to investigators within 24 hours of request

- Percentage of written legal advice provided to investigators within 48 hours of request

- Percentage of applications for policing powers processed within 10 working days of request

- Percentage of policies reviewed for legal compliance within 21 working days of request

- Number of practice notes and directives (bulletin) issued (to provinces)

- Percentage of PAIA  requests finalised within thirty days

Ms Mamodishe Molope, IPID Programme Manager IPID Programme Manager: Compliance Monitoring and Stakeholder Management, took the Committee through the programme where its purpose was to safeguard the principles of cooperative governance and stakeholder management through ongoing monitoring and evaluation of the quality of recommendations made to the SAPS and MPS. In addition, also report on the police service’s compliance with reporting obligations in terms of IPID Act (2011). The programme consisted of the following sub-programmes/ components:

  1. Compliance Monitoring
  2. Stakeholder Management (Communication)

In terms of the strategic objectives for the budget year and over the MTEF, indicators for the programme included:

- Percentage of implementation of the integrated communication and stakeholder engagement strategy

- Number of community outreach events conducted per year

- Number of media statements and responses issued (on matters that had a bearing on IPID) per year

- Number of awareness training conducted per year (station lectures)

- Number of formal engagements conducted at provincial level with key stakeholder (SAPS, MPS, NAP) per

year (as per the IPID Act)

Mr Kgamanyane concluded by noting that the majority of programme performance indicators remained the same with slight decrease in the planned targets due to the limited fiscus. The implementation of interventions to improve performance in Programme 2 (Investigations and Information Management) would continue. This included eradicating the backlog cases. The Department would continue to engage National Treasury on the projected budget shortfall. There would be continuous monitoring of cost-containment measures to ensure that resources were directed towards the core functions of the Department. There would also be continuous engagement with key stakeholders in executing the IPID mandate and engagement in education awareness with the objectives of professionalising the police services.


The Chairperson wanted to get assurance about leadership stability given that many of top management were in acting positions. The Committee was of the view that the Marikana investigation was critical – he wanted the Committee to be assured that the investigation was being done thoroughly, appropriately and use would still be made of the current baseline. In terms of training, very hard targets were set but were they realistic?

Mr Kgamanyane assured the Committee that IPID would still utilise its current budget on the baseline to attend to the investigation of Marikana as per the Farlam Commission recommendations with or without a budget from National Treasury. IPID would continue to make use of its limited resources and team working on the investigation was based 24/7 in Rustenburg. 

Ms L Mabija (ANC) was worried about the new target under programme one for training. 

Ms M Mmola (ANC) was concerned about the many managers in acting positions in the programmes.  She questioned specialised training under programme two and reasons for underperformance in terms of finances.

Mr Mbhele thought that, on the face of it, awareness training for police officials on key provisions of the IPID Act sounded valuable and understandable but he sought more clarity and elaboration on the key points around this and why SAPS were not training their own members on the IPID Act.  He understood the partnership aspect but was also concerned about SAPS being let off the hook in terms of its own obligations and when IPID had its own tight space to navigate. He was concerned about administrative capacity for programme one – there seemed to be bottlenecks with the very first access of the chain of IPID around members of the public getting receipts for complaints and that sort of thing – was this capacity being looked into and bottlenecks were going to be addressed as well.

Mr Kgamanyane said it was intended that the SAPS awareness training was conducted during station lectures and there were still challenges with regard to reporting obligations in terms of section 29 of the IPID Act. IPID was to ensure that SAPS were aware of what was expected from them as far as the statute was concerned so the training was done for courtesy purposes. Station management was targeted to include community service shift members because they were first respondents to a crime scene. With regard to the administrative capacity, IPID was covered and there were data capturers assisting in each and every province. Investigators in the provinces were also registering their own complaints and were uploading the particular matters into the system even though it was an administrative burden. With the expansion strategy this would not be a problem anymore.

Mr Redelinghuys noted that IPID played an incredibly important role in reviewing, monitoring, investigating and reporting on police conduct and this also boosted public confidence in the police by showing that officers were held accountable if they stepped outside the bounds of the law. It was therefore disheartening to hear that something as critical as the recommendations of the Farlam Commission were unfunded by National Treasury despite assurances that recommendations would be implemented. How much would be needed to implement recommendations of the Farlam Commission over the next financial year and perhaps medium term?

Mr Setshedi responded that R5 million was requested from National Treasury. 

Mr Mulaudzi was also worried about the management in acting positions. He questioned the implementing of the recommendations of the Marikana report. The report came at a cost of millions to the tax payer and people died so it would be very worrying if the recommendations were not implemented. He noted that most of the mid-term targets were less than 100% and this was worrying because so many cases were not investigated, he wanted to see the plan achieve maximum investigation of cases, as the Committee could not clap hands for laziness. He was happy to see that some of the targets for legal services were at 100%, why were other divisions not aiming for such performance?

Mr Kgamanyane noted that the CFO was on maternity leave and would be returning next month while other programme managers were on suspension, involved in court processes or in disciplinary processes but steps were taken to fill most of the vacant posts. Those in acting positions had done wonders in the 2015/16 financial year performances so it did not mean that if a person was acting there was instability and in his view performance was not affected. As the acting Executive Director of IPID, he understood that one was given all the powers given to the permanent Executive Director. Taking of decisions could not be postponed. The same things expected from the permanent Executive Director on a daily basis was expected from the Acting Executive Director as well. He had never hesitated to take a decision because he was in an acting position. On the issue of targets, they were informed by the budget approved by Parliament and based on that budget, the strategic plan was developed. The Directorate did not want to set itself up for failure hence the targets were SMART.  Currently the entity was 100 and something short of personnel but it had survived with four additional posts granted for last year and three for this financial year.  This could not be compared with the vast number of SAPS personnel IPID was meant to oversee. Target was then based on budget and capacity in respect of personnel.

Mr Maake questioned the budget cuts that would affect the organisational structure and he wanted to know what would happen with the operational budget if targets were cut, it did not necessarily mean they were in fact reduced. He sought clarity on what exactly was meant by reducing the backlogs. He also wanted to understand better what was meant by relocation of some activities of programme three into programme one and how it would affect the management structure of legal services. With the target for awareness training per year in terms of station lectures, he asked if it would not be better if this training was perhaps done per cluster because he was not sure the target of 180 would be enough if conducted per station. 

Mr Kgamanyane said that with targets, the majority were increasing each and every year and were not decreasing even though budget cuts would be received in 2017/18 and 2018/19. With the relocation, the same staff complement would still be retained under programme one. 

Mr Setshedi said on reprioritisation of the budget; some items compromised included investigative vehicles and travelling.  A bigger issue was IT infrastructure.

The Chairperson questioned the risks of allocating a very low amount to machinery and equipment. Why was there no specific target for interaction with the CSP through the consultative forum?

Mr Kgamanyane responded that IPID and the CSP were to meet once per quarter as taken care of under the stakeholder targets for national meetings; previously the target was separated.

The Chairperson asked if management could assure the Committee that the matter of policing powers would be addressed so that investigators were capacitated. What was the reason for some targets being removed? If capacity of legal services were questionable, was it appropriate to move it to another programme?  Dedicated legal expertise was needed for serious investigation for this in-house capacity was essential and the structure of IPID must fit its purpose.

Mr Kgamanyane understood where the Chairperson was coming from with regard to investigators and the capacity they required, this would be taken into consideration when liasing with National Treasury.  With policing powers, the challenge was with regard to management but he assured the Committee that it should not be a problem.

Ms Molope added that targets were not entirely removed but moved to the operational level – it could still be reported to the Committee as it was part of the operational plan but it was no longer at this level of the APP.  The target for the CPF was now factored into stakeholder engagements so it was still there but not as a stand-alone target.

Mr Mbhele thought of a question he was asked acquaintance earlier in the week and the question was, was it correct that the Public Protector got so much less funding than other state entities? The main thing about state entities like the Public Protector, IPID and others that enforced accountability was that the more compliant and clean the governance of the department, the less work the entity was faced with. So if SAPS were more compliant with the various regulations and National Instructions, the more cases IPID had to investigate were mitigated and technically, the less work IPID did and the less money it needed. On the reallocation of activities from programme three to one, he understood the technocratic argument from Treasury around certain activities needing a whole programme but he wanted to know if the whole of programme three was being phased into programme one and if not, which activities still remained in programme three. In light of an earlier answer around the administration of complaints, did this administrative capacity straddle both programmes one and two?

Mr Kgamanyane noted that the idea behind IPID since its inception was to assist in transforming the police – if the number of complaints for investigation increased, it meant IPID still had a long way to go in assisting SAPS in their transformation agenda. The registration of complaints was done in programme two: investigations, while administration dealt with HR issues, auxiliary services and finance.  They also dealt with vehicles and ensuring that investigators had resources as and when they did their work. There used to be a complaints registry but this had since been restructured and reorganised and staff members were sent to programme two to be converted to investigators.

Mr Maake thought if budgets were cut, for example the Department of Health, what was that saying? Some people should die? Budgets could not be cut for essential services like SAPS and IPID that needed to seriously be looked into. If the SAPS budget were cut and there was a riot, there would be fewer members to deal with it and the possibility of the police doing something wrong increased. At the same time the budget of IPID was cut it would create a ripple effect. This was just not workable and for some services, budgets could simply not be cut; the Committee should note this in its report.

The Chairperson took note of the input especially with regard to cuts in the budget, which was a concern, as IPID required the necessary funds as an oversight body to do their work effectively.

2016/17 Budget Overview of the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service

Mr Alvin Rapea, Acting Secretary of Police, began by highlighting that the CSP was being assisted by a senior manager sent from the Minister responsible for stakeholder management and coordination of institutions reporting to the Minister. He assisted the Secretariat with intersectoral coordination and strategic partnerships to stabilise the institution. He could confidently say to Members that the Secretariat was stabilised unlike last time when some Members noted that the CSP only came to complain.

After going through the introduction, Members were taken through programme one: administration, which had the purpose to provide administrative support, strategic leadership and management for the Department. The strategic objective of the programme was to enhance corporate governance in ensuring that the Secretariat achieved its mandate. Sub-programmes included: 

- Department management (provide strategic support to the Secretary of Police)

  • Effective planning in the Secretariat (Strategic Plan, APP, Annual Reporting, performance planning and quarterly reporting)
  • Effective cooperation between IPID and the Secretariat (Joint Consultative Forums)

- Corporate services (provide a reliable and efficient corporate service to the Secretariat including the provision of human resource management and development services as well as employee relations, communication and information technology services and auxiliary services)

  • Human Resource Management (HRM) and Human Resource Development (HRD) Plans
  • Work skills plan
  • Employment equity plans implemented

- Finance administration (provide PFMA-compliant financial, accounting and supply chain services to the Secretariat, ensure sound corporate governance, provide supply chain and financial management services in the Secretariat which were fully compliant)

  • Deviation between planned and actual spending below 5%
  • Payments to creditors within 30 days
  • Demand management plans

- Internal audit (provide internal audit services by conducting compliance and performance audits and perform strategic risks based audits and consulting services directed at improving the effectiveness and efficiently of the Secretariat operations, risk management and governance processes)

  • Rolling plans
  • Signed audit reports
  • Risk register
  • Audit committee meetings
  • Risk committee meetings

Mr Rapea outlined programme two: intersectoral coordination and strategic partnerships where the purpose was to manage and encourage national dialogue on community safety and crime prevention. The strategic objective of the programme was to contribute towards creating a safe and secure environment through partnerships with stakeholders. Sub-programmes included:

-Intergovernmental, civil society and public-private partnerships (manage and facilitate intergovernmental, civil society and public partnerships and to liaise, communicate and mobilise stakeholders through public partnership programmes to strengthen service delivery)

  • Anti-crime campaigns
  • Police stations implementing schools safety protocol
  • MOUs and MOAs with stakeholders

-Community outreach (promote, encourage and facilitate community participation in safety programmes and enhance stakeholder and community participation in safety and crime prevention programmes through imbizos and the establishment of working groups and CPFs)

  • Imbizo public participation programmes
  • Provinces implementing CPF guidelines
  • Funding model for CPFs

Programme three: legislation and policy development was purposed to develop policy and legislation for the police sector and conduct research on policing and crime. The strategic objective was to ensure the CSP was constitutionally compliant legislation, evidence- based research and evidence-led policies for policing and safety. Sub-programmes included:

-Policy development and research (develop policies and undertake research in areas of policing and crime and to provide research and evidence-led policies for policing and safety)

  • Drafting policing policies: use of force, reducing barriers to reporting on sexual offences and domestic violence
  • Research on police resource allocation, paper on the national police board
  • Safety audits
  • Implementation plans: White Paper on Safety and Security

-Legislation (provide legislative support services to the Minister, produce legislation for effective policing, provide legal advice and support to the Secretary) 

  • Bills submitted to the Minister: SAPS Amendment Bill, Critical Infrastructure protection Bill, Animal Movement and Produce Bill, Independent Police Investigative Directorate Amendment Bill, Protection of Constitutional Democracy Against Terrorists and Related Activities Amendment Bill, Firearms Control Amendment Bill

Mr Rapea outlined the final programme four: civilian oversight, monitoring and evaluation with the purpose of overseeing, monitoring and reporting on the performance of the SAPS. The strategic objective was to conduct effective oversight, monitoring and evaluation that contributed towards an accountable and transformed police service. Sub-programmes included:

- Police performance, conduct and compliance monitoring (monitor the performance, conduct and compliance and transformation of the SAPS and to improve police performance, compliance and police conduct)

  • Reports on: oversight, SAPS budget and programme performance, complaints management, SAPS implementation of IPID recommendations, Domestic Violence Act, compliance to legislation by SAPS, police station service delivery trends analysis, implementation of policy enhancing the quality of detective services, customer satisfaction surveys 

-Policy and programme evaluations (evaluate the effectiveness, efficiency and impact of programmes implemented by SAPS 

  • Reports on: impact evaluation, Community Safety Forums (CSFs) and CPFs assessed
  • Monitoring and evaluation framework

Mr Hendrik Robertse, CSP Acting CFO, then took the Committee through the audited expenditure outcome 2014/15 and a financial overview 2014/15 noting that during the period 2012/13 to 2015/16 the Departmental budget had grown from R39,9 million to R113,1 million. This had assisted in the Secretariat establishing itself as a National Department and the impact could already be seen in the performance outcomes. The Department finalised and submitted its first official audited annual report and financial statements in 2015 for the 2014/15 financial year. The Department had an under spending of R17,4 million for 2014/15 and improved from the 2013/14 spending of 71,9% to 82,6% in 2014/15.

In terms of the audited expenditure outcome 2015/16 and financial overview 2015/16, the Department had various challenges in the 2015/16 financial year with regard to unfunded priorities i.e. “We are One Campaign” and National Forensic Oversight and Ethics Board (NFOEB) and the Firearms Appeal Board. However with proper budget management, the expenditure was kept within the allocated amount. As the Committee would recall at the end of the 3rd quarter, the Department was still projecting a possible overspending of its budget. During the months of February and March 2016 the Department had discussions with SAPS on the correct placement of the Firearms Appeal Board and agreement was reached that the expenditure would be taken over by SAPS as per the Firearms Control Act.

Mr Robertse then outlined that with expenditure carried over from the 2015/16 financial year, as these were one of the reasons for the qualified financial statements, the Department had put controls in place to ensure that the finding was not repeated.  Commitments (to be confirmed) - R943 000 of which:

- National School of Government: R134 000

- Deloitte (Internal Audit): R368 000

- SITA: R268 000

- Other: R173 000

Accruals – (to be confirmed) R2 600 000:

- Wings Naledi Travel: R2 100 000

- Other:  R500 000

In terms of the medium term budget, over the medium term the budget of the Department would increase from R110,6 million in 2016/17 to R136,1 million by 2018/19. As the Department was administrative of nature the largest portion of the budget was allocated to the Compensation of Employees i.e. 79,1% of the total budget. The Goods and Services budget was reducing in real terms over the medium term and the Department was keeping its cost containment measures in place as to ensure that there would not be overspending or wastage.

The presentation then looked at a summary of the estimates of national expenditure, economic classification and finances per programme. In terms of the status of posts at the end of January 2015:

-The staff establishment: 107 (excluding 14 additional posts)

- Posts filled: 103

-Vacant posts: 4

-Transfers and terminations: 3

Mr Robertse then took the Committee through planned action on current vacancies, the status of current critical vacant posts and progress made on Committee recommendations.


The Chairperson noted although in the APP, targets were key for the Committee in terms of oversight and there was no reference to indicators in relation to targets in the presentation. What was the nature of interaction when deciding on the budget with other institutions? When the Committee last met with the DNA Board there seemed to be issues with communication and that the Board had to make use of its own petty cash in terms of expenses. What would be the approach moving forward with the DNA Board to ensure it was on the same level as the DPCI Judge? On the issue of vacancies, some high-ranking posts had been vacant for two years – it was critical these posts were filled to ensure long-term stability in the entity. Going back to indicators, for instance with the issue of legislation, already in the second quarter two pieces of legislation were scheduled to come before the Committee but what was the plan for the outer years?

Mr Rapea responded that change in terms of leadership contributed to positions not being filled because in the past 18 months there had been three heads of the CSP. It was important to have a permanent head of the institution to allow for stability and to ensure that all positions were filled. This would positively impact on the work the CSP did. The vacant positions were advertised including that of the Secretary, CFO, Head of Monitoring and Evaluation, Head of IT and the closing date for the adverts were 18 March. Very good response was achieved: for the post of Secretary, there were 63 applications while for other positions there were over 200 applicants that the team had to sift through.  He was not involved in the process as it could be a conflict of interest in terms of the position of Secretary. The position of CFO was also prioritised and he hoped whatever the selection was, the candidate had his heart in the public service and not other areas.  On the issue of legislation, in 2016/17 six pieces of legislation would have to be finalised but in the outer years, two other pieces of legislation was being looked at; the actual legislation was not yet finalised for the outer years but this would become clearer as time went on. 

Mr Mbhele sought clarity on the procedure of the White Papers after approval by Cabinet – would the Papers be gazetted? It was important that the Committee track that process. With the economic classification, one of the only two items that seemed to increase was contractors; what did this comprise of and why was this jump in the budget seen for contractors?

Mr Rapea outlined that a White Paper was not law but were policies and once approved by Cabinet became policies, which guided how amendments and regulations were dealt with. There were plans to communicate with stakeholders across the country.

Mr Robertse added that with the contractors, this was mostly related to imbizos and other events; the actual amount of increase was not a lot in the budget.

Mr Maake questioned the DNA Board which was an unfunded priority – how did the CSP determine the budget if the priority was unfunded? Was the budget ring-fenced? Was the Board responsible for its own budget or would it have to go through the admin of the Secretariat to access that funding?

Mr Robertse explained that he was involved in all meetings with the Board informing them of the various financial issues etc. and arranging travel to ensure they did not pay out of pocket around travel and accommodation issues. Around R400 000 was spent on the travel of the Board for which they did not have to pay anything. There were some delays but the CSP had now received the final allocation to pay the Board and this would be done in this financial year. The Secretariat also engaged with the Board in the strategic planning session on how government budgeting worked and how funds would be made available to them. The CSP had limited funds and there were other matters to take into account like appointing staff for the Board based on the Public Service Act as stipulated in the Act; this process was already underway. The CSP was in constant communication with the Board and assisting them in ensuring they did not have to pay anything out of their own pocket.

Mr Mulaudzi wanted to know what the strategy of the CSP would be to address the tension between the Western Cape Community Policing Board and the CPF.

Mr Redelinghuys sought clarity or some indication of when the White Papers, particularly the White Paper on Policing, would be implemented because they were central to the work the CSP did.

Mr Rapea said details on the White Paper on Policing were not provided because it was presented to the Committee last year. As soon as it was approved, the Secretariat would begin with the implementation plan.  

The Chairperson noted the increase in the budget for advertising and asked for an indication as to why this was the case given that National Treasury asked that such expenditure be constrained. What was the view of the Secretariat on the growth of Lieutenant Generals in SAPS? What was the role of the CSP in the restructuring process, was any input provided on the part of the Secretariat? Should the Secretariat not be more proactive in analysing this policing environment? He wanted to get a sense of the actual strategic role of the CSP in such a scenario because at the end of the day, the Secretariat contributed to a SAPS that more professional. 

Mr Rapea replied that the CSP did not make any contribution to the restructuring policy but the White Paper would actually change this status.

The Chairperson clarified that with advertising, looking at the APP, there was an increase in the outer years and his question was how this related to the National Treasury guideline to reduce spending on such items in principle. An issue also raised with SAPS was targets in the MTSF being below the departmental target. An example for the CSP was the conducting of safety audits where the target was only two in the outer years; the question was when the targets would come together. What was the current status of the monitoring and evaluation tool of the CSP in terms of its current application during oversight visits? What coordination was occurring with other provinces to ensure there was a common approach in supporting CPFs?

Mr Rapea responded that the M&E tools would have to be reviewed and revisited because assessment showed it seemed as if there differences in how the tools were used in the provinces so a review would clarify some of these issues. StatsSA was also assisting in the process.

Mr Maake thought some of the things done under restructuring were by recommendation of the Farlam Commission and he was sure the White Paper would say something about the restructuring. The question was if these processes would move together. Were the recommendations from the Farlam Commissioner a must or was it just a term? If it was a must it did not make sense why the implementation would be unfunded. 

Mr Rapea indicated that the panel of experts established by the Minister would deal with recommendations and look into all of them in terms of implementation. He had not thought about the links between the current restructuring process in SAPS and the White Paper; the CSP was not asked to provide input on the restructuring process. To clarify, the White Paper would be the overarching policy for policing and this would inform how the SAPS Act and other Acts were amended and support the legislation.

The Chairperson noted reference to research projects in the APP but he asked if there was a full list of NDP-related matters that still needed to be implemented.  He heard what was said about the audit and risk committee but sought clarity if the Committee would be fully staffed by outside, independent individuals.

Mr Rapea answered that the audit and risk committee would comprise of all external not internal individuals.

The Chairperson questioned if ICT was fully functional or if the Secretariat was still dependent on SAPS.

Mr Rapea said that the CSP was still using PERSAL and was not yet on LOGIS but it was not dependent on SAPS.

Mr Maake asked if the SAPS research unit related to research within the CSP. 

The Chairperson noted the briefing on the issue was postponed for the institutions to have bilaterals but the presentation would still happen,

Mr Rapea indicated that the CSP had a presentation on the matter ready to brief Members. He awaited the Committee's invitation

The Chairperson thought it was important to have clear timelines in terms of the APP of the Secretariat. The Committee was destined to meet Friday morning but this might be shifted to Thursday afternoon at 14h00 depending on whether the reports would be ready for adoption. This would be communicated to Members.

The meeting was adjourned. 

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