Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, StatsSA & National Youth Development Agency on their 2016 Annual Performance Plan

Public Service and Administration

13 April 2016
Chairperson: Ms B Mabe (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Strategic and Annual Performance Plans:
National Youth Development Agency 2016 Annual Performance Plan 
StatsSA 2016 Annual Performance Plan [Documents not available email [email protected]]

The Department  of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME), National Youth Development Agency (NYDA) and Statistics SA presented their Annual Performance Plans (APPs). All of the entities indicated where they derived their mandate and how they were aligned to the National Development Plan and other strategic plans.

DPME was a division of the Presidency, set up to assist the President in his exercise of executive authority and in line with the Constitution's objectives and aspirations. It had been able to lobby for more funding, from the National Treasury, and some could be passed on to the NYDA in time. This increase in budget resulted in more capacity. It would receive R836 million in this year, including transfer amounts. The DPME seeks to facilitate long and short term plans that capture the 14 outcomes, and assesses the strategic and annual outcomes of departments. It hoped to develop a strong culture of monitoring and evaluation in government to get continuous improvements. Poor outcomes were traced back to planning weaknesses, and there was a need to promote coordination and responsiveness of government to the needs of the public. Its programmes and focus were described, and some of the indicators had been revised, with the help of Statistics South Africa. Some areas of Operation Phakisa had been visited by the President. The DPME would also assist in assessing legislation to try to avoid unforeseen consequences. The Presidential  Hotline was a continuing project, although it faced some challenges. It was liaising with the School of Governance to set up course to address areas that were lacking. It expenditure patterns were outlined. Members were worried about the DPME's own vacancy rate, asked if it could start to evaluate local government, and appreciated the pending review of its strategy. They asked for comment on how deep-seated was the problem of poor response by government. They noted problems in getting through to the Presidential Hotline, asked if there was an SMS or internet service for access by disabled people, and  asked why the DPME was focusing on only some municipalities, not all. The DA Members expressed their view that there possibly was not a need for DPME to exist as a separate department, saying that it was costing a lot of money for few tangible results, criticised the duplication to be found across many areas of government, and asked what results had been achieved from Operation Phakisa, and the return on investments. The Chairperson made the point that having multiple institutions did not always mean duplication of functions. They asked about its legal standing to intervene in municipalities, if it was running case studies or pilots, what collaboration it had with other departments and StatsSA, and what the plans were for recruitment of women and the disabled. They asked if it monitored the performance of Directors General in government.

NYDA noted that it was aiming to have increased visibility to the youth, and that some of its programmes that it would be taking out on Youth Day would combine with other government services. It described its internship programmes to get more youth involved to take ownership of the Agency. The NYDA Act was presented under review. NYDA would use statistics from StatsSA to determine resource allocations. It wanted to address its own HR. It aimed to give every young person excellent service with the potential to effect real change. The Youth Employment Pan had been created, and there was a conscious decision to to separately account for youth with disabilities, and youth in conflict with the law. The change in some of the performance indicators was pointed out. Members felt that the Agency was moving in the right direction, were pleased to hear of its clean audit, but thought it still had a problem with visibility in the rural areas in particular. They discussed the 都econd chance・ matric rewrites, and when this would be taken back by the Department of Basic Education, and also impressed the need for proper career guidance. They asked for more information on how youth would be assisted, and once again the issue of duplication was raised. They asked if NYDA had considered extended office hours, and its progress in implementing the Youth Policy.

StatsSA emphasised that statistics were vital to creating positive change, and demonstrated what some of the statistics were telling the country about poverty head counts, demographic growth and shift, whether this had resulted in any additional benefits, and education and housing trends. Some of the statistics showed that the position of young people had not improved in terms of their education and property-ownership advancement and that this indicated that there was no growth. Statistics can assist in deciding which problems to deal with first, and they also reflects the urgency. A huge amount of knowledge would be lost if knowledge systems crashed, and that meant there should be a strategy to protect technology. The budget was R2.4 billion for 2017/18, dropping then rising again to R2.2 million in 2019/2020. Members greatly appreciated the presentation, said it should be presented to all committees, and commented on some of the statistics they found particularly interesting, asking in particular about university figures, funding of learners to study in Cuba, the access to disability services by foreign students but not necessarily by locals who were unaware of the services, and the need for ongoing census. They spoke to the fact that parents cold not afford to pay for their children's educational needs, and this would need to be on the priority list of government. It seemed the plight of the African child was not important. Members also asked about the succession plan and the unfilled posts. 

 

Meeting report

Department  of Planning Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME) 2016 Annual Performance Plan briefing
Mr Tshediso Matona, Director General, Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, noted the alignment between the Strategic Plan of the Department (DPME) and the National Development Plan (NDP). He pointed out that the DPME monitored the performance and service delivery of other departments. Mr Matona stated that the medium term strategic framework (MTSF) plans were drawn in 2014/2015 and since then the strategic plan has not changed, but is currently under review, as the Executive had felt a need for a shift. The philosophy of the monitoring is hoped to strengthen departments and also to identify specific interventions. Mr Matona cited the problem of non-payment of suppliers within 30 days; here the DPME calls on suppliers and departments and will make interventions.

Mr Matona said that there had been an increase in budget thus resulting in new capacity and increased posts in the Department, from 340 posts to 500. The budget would increase from R754.2 million in 2015/16 to R994.3 million in 2018/19. For the current financial year the budget is R826 million, which included the amounts to transfer to the National Youth Development Agency (NYDA).

Mr Matona noted that the mandate of the DPME was in line with supporting the President in his exercise of executive authority and he pointed out that it is strategically located within the Presidency, to assist the President in pursuing the objectives and aspirations of the Constitution.  Several documents  supported this mandate. The Department  seeks to facilitate development of long term and medium term plans as captured in the 14 outcomes targeted by government. Strategic plans and annual outcomes of the departments are also assessed. National Treasury (NT) saw that this task was better performed by the DPME and would support it to do so.

The DPME hoped to develop a culture on monitoring and evaluating in government to continuously improve implementation. Some of the root causes of poor outcomes were traced back to planning weaknesses, and there was a need to promote coordination and responsiveness of government to the needs of the public .

The work of the DPME was organised in five programmes:
Programme 1: Administration ・ with a prime aim to obtain clean audits as it is a representation of good governance
Programme 2 does the core work of the Department
Programme 3 focuses on performance or government departments
Programme 4 deals with integrated planning in medium and long term time frames
Programme 5 speaks to youth development and empowerment

Mr Matona spoke to the Annual Performance Plan (APP) for 2016. Some indicators need revising either because they were pitched too low or they need revising in the MTSF. Regular reports were produced on targets by departments. Governance and capacity formed a major focus area with the help of Statistics South Africa (Stats SA) evidence, to make interventions. DPME hopes to attain clusters of data that will be deployable in particular areas, and had already started to work on this. The document of development indicators that it produced assisted in tracking the progress.

The President had visited some of the locations of Operation Phakisa, and this will also be launched in areas of land reform and agriculture.

Another part of the Department's mandate is to assess legislation. Visa regulations, for instance, should have been more closely assessed to avoid the unforeseen and unfortunate consequences. DPME would brief Cabinet, although provinces are supposed to do their own research.

The Presidential Hotline was being maintained as a complaints line. Mr Matona said it is fairly useful and effective, but has its challenges and it was currently engaging with the State Information Technology Agency (SITA) because the platform was inherently problematic. It hopes to increase capacity building and knowledge. Many problems that the Management Performance Assessment Tool (MPAT) has diagnosed are due to leadership issues and the DPME had been liaison with the School of Governance to conduct courses.

DPME was currently working with National Treasury to review the budget. A process that is being developed to assess how the work of departments impacts on youth development to ensure more purposeful targets on youth. Finally, he noted that the DPME has developed several tools to help it fulfil the mandate.

Mr Pieter Pretorius, Chief Financial Officer, DPME, said the functions of the Ministry and Deputy Ministry were transferred from the Presidency to the Department  in the 2015 Adjustments Budget, increasing the budget allocation from R717.7 million to R754.2 million. The Department spent 98.4% of its allocated budget (excluding NYDA transfers) and 99.3% if these were included. The DPME was  more or less on target with projections. The expenditure pattern for 2015/6 on compensation of employees was around 52% of total expenditure, and professional services comprised 9.3% of the budget. The budget for the current year was increased by R4.8 million rand, allocated specifically to evaluation. A change in allocation was R29.5 million to create new posts, and with the increase in administration, it was likely to have to outsource HR.

Mr Matona recapped that the Department has developed tools to fulfil its mandate and will optimise key priorities.

Discussion
The Chairperson said monitoring and evaluating is the heart of public administration. She said that the vacancy rate was not satisfactory and she hoped to see it improve by the time of the next presentation. She asked if DPME had the capacity to cover all organs of state, and when it would start to evaluate local government, where most of the complaints were received. Any department moving towards a billion rand budget should be moving strongly to service delivery. The Committee was pleased with the pending review of strategy. She asked that the DPME continue to support the National Planning Committee. She asked how deep-seated was the poor response of government, and to what extent it affected service delivery.

Mr M Dirks (ANC) raised an issue on the Presidential Hotline, which had been discussed in previous meetings, when Members said that they were unable to get answers from the number, and asked if the problem had been addressed.  He agreed that the real problem with delivery lay with local government, and the Department痴 key focus areas pointed to use of the local government model. Previously, the DPME reported that it was focusing on selected municipalities, but he wanted to see all municipalities looked at.

Mr M Ntombela (ANC), spoke to the key areas of responsiveness of government and the needs of public, and asked what were the main problems inhibiting the effectiveness of these in the provinces. He asked which provinces had a problem in not paying their contractors on time. Were there any examples, other than Marikana, where problems had been directly solved as a result of the DPME? He asked if steps had been taken where departments were not honouring their commitments to employing disabled people. He asked what were the tangible results of Operation Phakisa to date, in terms of jobs actually created, and the return on investments.

Ms R Lesoma (ANC) mentioned that some departments claimed to have no legal standing to intervene in municipalities. She asked what legal standing the DPME had, and whether it was working under pilots or case studies. She asked if collaboration with Statistics South Africa was intended, as its reports could assist the DPME. She wanted to see DPME plans for recruitment of women and those with disabilities in particular. She commented, in respect of monitoring of service delivery, that  Batho Pele prescripts were perhaps not respected by front line service personnel.

Mr Dirks said he wanted to raise a matter about one of the Western Cape municipalities. He told his DA colleagues that this was not intended to be a political question, but he was deeply concerned.  A particular municipality allegedly gave R1.9 billion extra, from money meant for the poorest of the poor, to households who did not qualify for benefits. The equitable share for municipalities should be going to the poorest of the poor.

Mr S Motau (DA) stated that there is no need to apologise for such questions. There had been a view that the DPME should not be a separate department but a programme within the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA). The DPME claimed d to be growing and efficient, yet the Minister never speaks of it. He asked what the return on investment was in having more than one department dealing with this kind of work and what authority the DPME had to ensure that its recommendations would be followed.

Ms W Neuhoudt-Druchen (ANC) asked about the accessibility of the hotline to deaf people, and why there was no SMS or email facility. She asked also about collaboration between the Department and Stats SA.

Mr A van der Westerhuizen (DA), noted the large shift in spending. He expressed his concern at the duplication in monitoring function and said that if a person were to complain to the SA Police Service, he would be told to go to the Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID), and both the Department of education and Heads of departments might be monitoring the same things, causing confusion and waste of resources. Each department  would monitor aspects which are important to it specifically. The monitoring of the performance of Directors General in departments was problematic because the information given is supplied by that very person, and he wondered if there had ever been reports on incompetence of any Director Generals. He was worried whether DPME was actually producing value for money. The late Minister, Collins Chabane, had said that the emphasis must be on compliance rather than improvement. He wondered if this Department was providing more value than the fact of having the department was taking away from other public service priorities.

The Chairperson asked if there was anything to make Mr Van der Westhuizen support the budget vote; Mr Motau had long held this stance, so she was not sure that he would change his view.

Mr van der Westhuizen replied that the position of the DA would change if there were sufficient facts to persuade it to do so. He respected Mr Matona and it was up to him to see if he could persuade the DA. 

Mr Matona reminded Members that the establishment of DMPE came about in recognition of the problems to be addressed, particularly the culture of doing things as they had always been done, rather than seeking to improve. Growth of the departments was one form of continuous improvement, but activities would have to be monitored. The DPME would not stagnate but grow and improve also.

The Chairperson said that people had been asking whether corruption levels had improved, and she noted that corruption had been reported and actions taken by the DPME. Teams at different levels did not necessarily mean that there was duplication. If they complemented each other, this would be value for money.

Mr Matona stated that the issue was whether DPSA could meet the requirements for strong monitoring and evaluating capacity at the core of government. The Department modelled itself on other jurisdictions ・ an equivalent was found in the Prime Minister's office in the UK, in the USA and the BRICS countries. Its functions had grown from performance monitoring to planning, as monitoring would follow planning. Monitoring and Evaluation was happening separately from planning, based on what was planned to be done. DPME has a clear vision, and wanted a structure in the centre of government to bring about the change that the Constitution speaks of.

On the question of value, he said that the budget of the DPME was under R1 billion, and it was monitoring more than R4 trillion worth of administration ・ that must be considered. Much would have to be done, and it was still a long road, to change the culture of the public service, and strong interventions were needed. The DPME is a young Department and these things would not happen overnight, but required time and focus. He noted the scepticism about the DPME's relevance, but said it would be focusing on achievements, and illustrating how the achievements to date would not have been possible without the DPME. For instance, 30  000 invoices had been paid within 30 days, so that was one tangible improvement.

In answer to Ms Newhoudt-Druchen, he said that there was an e-mail facility:  [email protected].

Over time DPME will cover all municipalities but in the meantime the main focus was on those in bad shape. The problem was too huge and would have to be broken down into manageable portions. Some municipalities were approaching the Department directly. DPME is chasing up on Director Generals also. In regard to Operation Phakisa the President was in Port Elizabeth last Friday to give progress reports. The Department has an equity plan in place and when it does recruitment, it takes this into consideration, and a new Head of Human Resources will be responsible for this.

Ms Lesoma said that DPME needed to move closer towards creating real economic activities for people living with disabilities.

National Youth Development Agency (NYDA) 2016/17 Annual Performance Plan briefing
Mr Waseem Carrim, Chief Financial Officer, NYDA, apologised for the absence of the Chief Executive Officer. He noted that the Agency (or NYDA) aims to be credible and capable and mainstream youth into society. The NYDA derives its legislative mandate from the NYDA Act and other legislation that provided a structure of implementation of youth development programmes, and called upon the NYDA to evaluate and monitor all programmes which aim to integrate youth in society. It further instructs the Agency to take a uniform approach to ensure all major stake holders prioritise on youth development The NYDA Act is under review and amendments should go through Parliament this financial year.

Poverty indicators from Stats SA indicate the well-being of the youth of South Africa, and how they are affected. NYDA uses these to give careful consideration to accurate resource allocation. One of the aims of the Agency was to correct the human resource deficiency within the Agency, although it had a high salary bill. Government also  needs to establish a culture of a strong work ethic within the sector.

Mr Carrim stated that the main aim of the Agency was that every young person entering an NYDA branch must experience excellent service and must leave the branch changed and inspired by services s/he received. There has been a repositioning of the National Youth Service programme as well as an economic programme to align with the current economy. To promote its visibility NYDA was utilising its various offices across the country, and there have been 200 young interns employed through the Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA) programmes. These interns will support the running of these offices. As part of the build up to June 16, the Agency will be conducing road shows, especially in rural areas. He stated that this road show will not only be taking NYDA services, but also other government services, to these remote areas.

Another plan of the Agency is the Youth Employment Plan 2030 that has been submitted to the Deputy Minister, along with the Integrated Strategy Plan. There will be a Youth Development Institute launch with the University of Johannesburg.

The strategic framework is guided by the APP process described by National Treasury. The main focus is to align the strategic orientated goals and objectives for service delivery with budget. There was a conscious decision to to separately account for youth with disabilities, and youth in conflict with the law.

He outlined the new Key Performance Indicators (see attached presentation) and said that whereas the previous plans referred to numbers of communities to be assisted, this had now changed to 渡umber of community development projects supported by NYDA・. There is a focus on creating more jobs. The number of youth participating in youth service is also referred to.

NYDA has sustained a clean audit so there could be a lesser amount allocated to compliance costs in the budget.

Discussion
The Chairperson said that NYDA was moving in the right direction and she hoped it could sustain its clean audit. She said that the main problem still with NYDA was its visibility in rural areas, which had not really been spoken of in the presentation. She had hoped to see a comparison of needs and allocations, because it is clear that the needs are greater than the budget. She asked how NYDA will fund new requests on its data base.

Mr P Mncwabe (EFF) appreciated the expansion of the Agency in opening offices all over the country and its reduction on administration costs. He raised the issue of 都econd chance matric rewrites・ that needed to be taken back to the Department of Basic Education, and said career guidance was very important, and would result in significant savings, enabling the NYDA to focus on technical training of artisans, which was needed.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen noted that youth with disability would be separately dealt with, but asked what form the interventions would take ・ training, education, or assisting with business plans, and how would this latter proposition work. Would the NYDA go with the youth to banks to access loans, and who would follow upon the matter?

Mr van der Westhuizen said that there was a general perception that the youth institutions in general had failed young people, because, amongst others, of a lack of clear mandates, resulting in duplication and overlap. He wanted to know who could be asked to respond on , or be held accountable for, the national youth policy.

Ms Lesoma asked about the Solomon Mahlangu scholarship, saying that this needs to be monitored. She asked if the NYDA had looked into the possibility of  extending office hours to increase visibility, as well as developing technology for young people to access the Agency. She also asked about the progress it had made in implementing the Youth Policy 2015-20.

Mr Matona noted that the National Youth Policy is the responsibility of government, coordinated by DPME, as the NYDA is  merely an implementing Agency working with para structures.

Mr Cassim agreed, and said this was how the NYDA understood its mandate. The team is working hard to sustain the clean audit. There is a need for more resources to increase its visibility in rural areas and to meet the demands of young people

Mr Cassim spoke to the issue of second chance matric rewrites. The NYDA had approached the Department  of Basic Education, who had indicated that it was not ready to take on this project until last year, but then at the last moment it backed out. At the press conference, the Department of Basic Education announced a pilot in second chance rewrites. NYDA had decided that this will be the final year that it could handle second chance matric rewrites, and a formal hand over will be done after that.

Mr Cassim noted that the NYDA had always traditionally assisted youth with disabilities, but never until now crafted a specific plan. Needs would be assessed and assistance given in line with the set requirements. In relation to the business plans, he noted that NYDA did not have any relationship with the banks, but did have relationships with other small funding institutions. The Agency had not thought of extending office hours but its policies do not consider overtime.

The restructuring programme was complete, and a budget had been submitted. Mr Cassim stated that there will be more monitoring and evaluation to keep track of programmes. A mobile application is being developed to allow youth to access NYDA over the internet. Moreover, all branches will be Wi-Fi hotspots as budget becomes available.

Mr van der Westhuizen asked why in relation to the matric rewrite there is one site in Western Cape, seven in Kwa-Zulu Natal and two in Northern Cape just two sites. He asked how the Agency determined how many sites to have in each province. In answer to a query where that information was found, he said that he had found it on the website of the Department of Basic Education.

Mr Cassim asked where the data was coming from.

Mr Cassim said Mr van der Westhuizen seemed to be referring to Department of Basic Education痴 programme, and not that of NYDA, but he would verify the information.

The Chairperson suggested that DPME must lobby for NYDA or share resources as it is the only vehicle that government uses to reach young people.

Statistics South Africa (StatsSA) 2016 Annual Performance Plan

Mr Pali Lehohla, Director General, Statistics South Africa, stated that the  key issues isolated and discussed in his presentation were poverty and unemployment. He stated if statistics did not result in positive action, they would be useless.

According to the statistics, the poverty head count had been reduced in South Africa. They also showed that the country was entering a 電emographic winter・, with women having less children than in the past; the current figure was 2.57 on average. There had not been any particular benefits seen from this decrease in numbers, as there had been in China and Europe, which raised questions why. In relation to education, the education levels of black people were still lower. 

Mr Lehohla stated that race is a strong indicator of what marks a person would attain. He showed a graph indicating students of different races matriculating and going to university, yet there is a difference in results, with black still at the bottom. The group of focus was the youth, aged 15-24, and there is no demographic dividend showing that the children were advancing on their parents, which is problematic because it indicates no growth. In relation to housing ownership, he pointed out that in 2010, unlike in 2014, youth got the better share of the housing, but now the adults are taking over from the youth. Mr Lehohla said property is part and parcel of transforming society, yet black people still owned the smallest  amount of property. In relation to the  current priority of education Mr Lehohla said the main question was how to teach students with other underlying issues, and how the priority shift would happen? It is found that blacks are the most unequal in the South African society, not in terms of money, but unequal in poverty. He stated that this destroys black society and there needs to be a prioritisation ・ perhaps of all the needs together. Statistics can assist in deciding which problems to deal with first, and they also reflects the urgency.

Statistics SA gets its mandate from the fundamentals of the African Charter on Statistics which is still waiting for ratification in South Africa, the SA Statistics Act of 1999, Agenda 2063 and the National Development Plan. Statistics provided the knowledge, access and basic freedoms that are all needed to come up with cognitive plans. He states that in attaining all these statistics there should be consequences for non-compliance. He noted that a huge amount of knowledge would be lost if knowledge systems crashed, and that meant there should be a strategy to protect technology.

Mr Lehohla said he would provide a detailed budget at a later stage but in summary, for the 2017/18 year there was a budget of R2.4 billion in expenditure, dropping in 2018/19 to R2.1 billion and rising to R2.2 billion in the 2019/2020 year. .

Discussion
The Chairperson thanked Mr Lehohla for his passion. She asked him to explain what he meant by 堵overnment should give a full tested programme・. She urged that StatsSA should be presenting to every committee in Parliament, because the statistics revealed serious issues such as decline of fertility, which is a two way stream, education, knowledge and health. Poverty has reduced through government intervention, but she asked for clarity whether this was due to employment being on the rise or government grants. She also asked for an example of when StatsSA have been a conduit. She noted that she was also worried about the drop outs from universities, most of which were funded by government, through different government programmes. She asked what the root cause of the drop outs were ・ and said that at the University of Pretoria it tended to be the local students who dropped out and the foreign ones who finished. She was also worried to hear about government funding learners to study in Cuba. She said that the country was still very far from closing the  inequality gap,and asked if  StatsSA could suggest some useful interventions. She finally wanted to know what were the punitive measures for non-compliance.

Mr van der Westhuizen said that he had noted that one major budget cut was on survey operations, and capacity is needed to do surveys. He also asked why the budget was raised, then reduced again very quickly, saying this is not a healthy trend. He asked about the  frequency of the National census, making the point that the ability to plan, monitor and evaluate will be limited unless proven through mathematical modelling.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen expressed concern with what is going on in education, asking where the focus on Early Childhood Development was seen to work. Grade 1 did have subsidies, but pre-school and grade R pupils had to pay. If parents did not send their children to early education for lack of money, this meant that the children ・ largely black children ・ would already be disadvantaged. Speaking from personal experience, she said that children with educational difficulties needed help from an educational psychologist, and many parents also could not afford this. This should be something on the priority list of government. Whilst many universities had an office for disability, foreign students would go and apply for extra time to do their examinations, but local students did not know of the facility

Mr Dirks stated that StatsSA is ranked highly internationally, so it is particularly important to pay heed to it, as a credible and reliable institution. He was concerned that the plight of the African child was not improving, although the view was held that after twenty years of all children being able to access the same schools, they should be competing at equal standing. He asked for StatsSA's views.

Ms Lesoma raised a question on the succession plan, saying that StatsSA seemed to revolve around the person of Mr Lehohla, and she wanted to know how StatsSA would continue along its energetic path when he moved on. She asked what caused the unfilled posts he said from where she was sitting Stats SA revolves around Mr Lehohla as a person, how does Stats SA aim to ensure the energy moves across. She asked the cause of the unfilled, but funded, posts, and also asked how far StatsSA had gone to ensure that the irregular expenditure did not recur.

Mr Lehohla responded that Stats SA is trying to move beyond merely providing statistics to also providing an entire picture of what is happening, and a plan for that. Without planning, there would be unstructured projects on projects, so a proper framework is needed. In regard to the questions on education and the black child, he noted that there were many factors that worked against the black child ・ including books, food, fragile household. There needed to be a total plan for education.

He noted that no government department could be arrested for being non-compliant, so that enforcement was a problem.

The reason for the decline in the budget was linked to the different services offered. He assured the Committee that there were many very competent young people on the StatsSA team who work really hard and are ready to take on projects. Finally, he reiterated that statistics must be treated as real and important, to make meaningful choices.

The meeting was adjourned. 

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