Higher Education Budget Review and Recommendations Report (BRRR)

Meeting report

The Chairperson explained that although Committee Report on the Higher Education and Training 2014/15 Annual Report was circulated for Members to look at, it would not be discussed until the next meeting. Should Members have any inputs, please forward these and they would be discussed during that meeting.

She thanked Members for supporting the Higher Education Summit on 15 to 17 October. They all benefited from the information provided there. They all had a better understanding now of what was happening in the colleges. There were resolutions that the Department came up with but the Committee’s job is to ensure that the resolutions and implementation are sped up so that they can intervene in the space and come with solutions to help.

Dr B Bozzoli (DA) expressed concern that the BRRR was not being discussed during that meeting. The Committee had already cancelled the previous day’s meeting and they were postponing the discussion yet again. She was under the impression that the reason the Committee rushes these Annual Reports so quickly was to have the BRRR ready before the Medium Term Budget Policy Statement speech that afternoon? If the Committee is going to consistently postpone the BRRR then there is no point in having it at all. The Committee has made no inputs into the Medium Term Budget Policy Statement in spite of serious concerns in the budget reported on by the Department. Does that mean that this Committee is absolutely pointless?

The Chairperson explained that although Dr Bozzoli’s concerns made sense, the BRRR still needed to go through quality assurance. The issue here was that once the report has been adopted, it becomes available for public consumption. They need to ensure that the document is a quality document. Also, the document had been handed out, just not discussed yet.

Dr Bozzoli wanted to know who the recommendations were for. She had thought that they were for the interim budget.

The Chairperson reemphasized that the document needed to go through quality assurance. Many Committees had rushed to deliver their report and they had been riddled with mistakes. To avoid that, they had received an extension to ensure there were no mistakes in the report they submitted.

Committee Fourth Term Programme
The Chairperson noted that the Draft Programme had been circulated and needed to be adopted. There are a lot of things that are happening that need their attention and the Committee needs to address them.

- On 14 October: The briefing by the Department did happen when it was supposed to. The Budgetary Review is currently in progress, the stakeholders have been interrogated and the BRRR compiled.

- On 28 October 2015: They have a briefing by the National Skills Fund (NSF) and the Construction Education and Training Authority. The Committee agreed to keep this item regardless of the fact that they will also be discussing the BRRR as well.

- On 4 November 2015: They agreed on the Media, Advertising, Information Communication Technologies Sector Education and Training Authority, and Energy and Water Sector Education and Training Authority briefing on their Annual Reports 2014/15

- On 11 November 2015: The Chairperson proposed a visit to Stellenbosch University instead. This is the only date that the University had open for the Committee to visit. The TVET/CET item scheduled for 11 November  was then shifted to the 18 November.

- 18 November 2015: Briefing by Department of Higher Education and Training on the function shift of Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVET) and Community Education and Training (CET) sectors

- On 24-27 November 2015: The Committee is having an oversight visit to some Universities and TVET colleges in the Eastern Cape and Kwazulu Natal to assess their performance in governance, administration, and transformation.

Dr Bozzoli suggested also vising Fort Hare University while they are in the Eastern Cape.

The Chairperson’s concern is that she does not want to address all the TVET colleges together because they do not all have the same problems.

Dr Bozzoli suggestion just focusing on the weak colleges and stagger them at different times.

Mr C Kekana (ANC) suggested seeing them individually. In the end, the Committee agreed to see all the weak ones come to the same venue but at different times individually.

Coming back to Dr Bozzoli's recommendation, the Chairperson wanted to know what Universities they had agreed to visit and how they could fit in Fort Hare.

The Committee Secretary reminded her that they were visiting Walter Sisulu University.

Ms Mchunu reminded the Chairperson that Walter Sisulu University is in Mthatha which is very distant from Alice where Fort Hare is.

The Members discussed different options for when and how they could visit each college. Amongst them was just visiting Fort Hare and then visiting WSU at a different time. In the end the Members decided to visit the WSU campus head office in East London while visiting Fort Hare. They would visit both on the same day.

Dr Bozzoli brought up that four universities are currently closed and said that there is an emergency in the country even though the Minister says it is not a crisis. It is an unprecedented event and needs to be addressed. The solution that was taken by the Department yesterday did not make students happy and she predicted further protests. When is the Committee going to consider this as an emergency issue? She talked about how they are there to represent the people – not too be bureaucrats. The Committee needs to do more to push for bigger funding for universities. She suggested inviting the Minister to come and talk to the Committee and brief them on his plans. He is answerable to the Portfolio Committee and so far his response to the issues at hand has not been satisfactory.

The Chairperson, on the other hand, said that she was aware of the Minister’s intervention and said that she thought it had been a prompt response. He has talked to the media and contacted the vice chancellors. She also said that Members can also talk to the media and recognized Dr Bozzoli for representing the Committee well in her media interview.

Dr Bozzoli responded that she was representing her party, not the Committee.

The Chairperson said, from her position as the Chair of the Committee, she saw it as representing the Committee. Mr Siwela and herself had also talked to the media. She did agree, however, that the Minister does need to come and report to the Committee.

Mr E Siwela (ANC) agreed with Dr Bozzoli that she was representing her own party because he did not agree with her views. He then went on to warn that they might not have the time to do everything they want to do if they keep adding more things onto their plate. However, he does agree that the Minister should be invited to the Committee.

Prof T Msimang (IFP) supported the idea of inviting the Minister to the Committee. He felt that the Minister’s actions have not resolved anything. If the students continue defying the status quo, this thing is very likely to spin out of control. So, the Committee needs to sit with the Minister to find out what other actions he means to take to resolve this issue.

Mr C Kekana (ANC) challenged Dr Bozzoli's comment about this being the first time that four major universities have been closed. He said that it is not a fair comparison because in the past it was part of the status quo but this was transformation. When you’re changing things, it does not happen very easily. He is of the opinion that this is the toughest time that the country has ever gone through in its history. He said that one can expect, now and then, to have fires burning. He does not have a problem with inviting the Minister but wanted it known that he thought that the Minister did well the day before by going and talking to the Chancellors. That is where the real problem is, not inside a Committee. He was wary of the danger of what would happen if the Committee did not let the positive decision the Minister had taken, make a difference. He thought they should give the issue a day or two to see its effect before acting. Also, if the Minister comes to the Committee, he is not sure what the Committee will do then. Do they have proposal for the Minister?

Ms S Mchunu (ANC) supported the idea of inviting the Minister to the Committee. She also supported the idea of waiting to see what happens in the next couple of days because right now, it would be too fast. They need to allow the universities to deal with this issue and then, when the Minister comes to report, he will have more concrete information to share with them.

The Chairperson countered that a crisis situation warrants a crisis intervention. She wants to let the Minister handle the issue. She also wants people to know that he is being held accountable for his actions. It is vital for the people to know that Parliament is not just doing nothing – they are holding the Minister accountable. She proposed to call the Minister in on the 28 October for a briefing right before the BRRR. The Minister needs to come and account to the Committee - what is his plan and possible solutions?

Ms Mchunu was concerned they might not be able to complete everything on the agenda for the 28th.

Mr Kekana said that the 28th should be fine. They can schedule the Minister for one hour only. He can present for 30 minutes and they can have a 30 minute discussion thereafter. Then they can continue with the rest of the agenda. The Minister could also cover the NSF so that will be taken care of as well.

The Chairperson called for and received consensus on Mr Kekana’s suggestion.

Dr Bozzoli called the Chairperson’s attention to the message that she had sent to the Chairperson where they had agreed (reluctantly on Dr Bozzoli’s part) to go to the "Treasury" Committee rather than the Committee host them. She wanted to know when that was going to happen.

The Committee Secretary explained that this was actually tabled to the Standing Committee on Appropriations last week on the 14th.

The Chairperson advised the Committee Secretariat that they needed to keep her updated on information and that timeous updates and responses were necessary.

Dr Bozzoli explained that the Committee needed to challenge Treasury and find out exactly why they were not putting money into this portfolio. She feels that if they wait too long, they will miss the budgetary deadline.

The Chairperson led the conversation back to the Committee Programme.
The Committee adopted the amended Programme.

Committee Minutes
Minutes for the 9 September, 13 October and 14 October meetings were adopted by the Committee.

Meeting adjourned.

[Apologies: Mr Y Cassim (DA), Mr M Mbatha (EFF), Ms Kilian (ANC); Mr K Mahumapelo (AGANG)]