Department of Higher Education and Training on its 1st quarter performance report of 2015/16

Meeting report

Introductory remarks

The Chairperson welcomed the Department and began by noting that it was vital for the Department to resolve the outstanding challenges in the Adult Education and Training sector.

Mr Blade Nzimande, Minister of the Department of Higher Education and Training (DHET) had submitted an apology, as he had to attend a Cabinet meeting.

Dr B Bozzoli (DA) objected to the absence of the Minister and Director General.

The Chairperson asked that the Committee be prioritised by the Director General in future, as he was responsible for accounting to the Committee on behalf of the Department. She decided to allow the presentation to continue, despite the Director General's absence.

Mr Y Cassim (DA) objected to the Director General's disrespect for the Committee by being late.

Mr M Mbatha (EFF) said that another Committee of which he was a member had been attended by the Minister, Deputy Minister and Director General when the relevant department had presented.

The Chairperson accepted these concerns, and said the Deputy Minister had failed to apologise for his absence. She was concerned that this was an indication that the cordial working relationship between the Committee and the Department was being undermined.

Mr E Siwela (ANC) said that he thought the presentation should continue.

Mr Cassim said that he thought the Director General, Minister and Deputy Minister should be present for any presentation by the Department to the Committee.

The Director General of the DHET, Mr Gwebinkundla Qonde, then arrived. He apologised for arriving 20 minutes late, as he had been at a media briefing which was meant to end at 9h30, but had run late. He was welcomed by the Chairperson

The Deputy Minister attempted to send a late apology through one of the representatives of the Department present. The Chairperson said that his apology was not accepted, as it had been submitted late.

Mrs J Kilian (ANC) said that, in principle, all those in the Committee thought that when the Department was under scrutiny, the Minister or Deputy Minister should be present. She said that the Committee meeting on a Wednesday could be the problem for the Minister.

The Chairperson said that the Minister should possibly miss a Cabinet meeting once a quarter.

Dr Bozzoli said that the core business of the meeting was to tell the Minister the Committee's views on various matters.

Mr C Kekana (ANC) suggested that when the Minister could not be present, the Deputy Minister should stand in.

Mr Cassim repeated his proposal that, whenever there was a departmental presentation, the Minister and Deputy Minister should be present, and any timetabling issues should be sorted out by moving a Committee meeting.

Dr Bozzoli seconded the proposal.

Mr Siwela said that the proposal should be postponed to another day and be debated then. He said the Committee was meant to meet on a Wednesday, according to the Parliamentary programme.

The Chairperson agreed on this point. She said that the proposal was procedurally closed, because no one had objected, and that the Committee should proceed with the Department's presentation.

First Quarter Report on Performance

The Director General invited Mr Firoz Patel, Deputy Director-General in charge of Planning and Monitoring, DHET, to take the Committee through the presentation.

The Department went through each of the programmes it runs. These were:

• Programme 1: Administration

• Programme 2: Human Resources Development, Planning and Monitoring Coordination;

• Programme 3: University Education;

• Programme 4: Vocational and Continuing Education and Training (VCET); and

• Programme 5: Skills Development.

For each of these programmes, the relevant Deputy Director General explained how many of the targets set for that programme had been achieved, and reasons why some had not been achieved. Those targets not achieved fell largely under programmes 4 and 5. Finally, the Chief Financial Officer explained the state of the Department’s budget during the quarter. (See document attached)

Mr Patel said that on Programme 4, the Department had chosen to take on Adult Education and Training, rather than allowing the provinces to handle the matter. There was no data or systems in respect of this area, and the Department was doing this from scratch. The targets identified by the Department were simply putting basic minimum standards in place as a starting point to improve the efficiency of the system. The Department was working with the Auditor General to improve the system.

Mr Zukile Mvalo, Acting Deputy Director General in charge of Skills Development, said that on Programme 5, two further targets had been achieved since the presentation had been compiled. These referred to monitoring reports and new artisan learners.

Mr Theuns Tredoux, Chief Financial Officer, DHET said the reason for the high percentage of spending during this quarter (45.2%) had been uneven spending in Programmes 3 and 4.

The Director General said that for the last five years, National Treasury had reduced, not increased the DHET budget. This had constrained the Department in many instances, and he encouraged the Committee to provide support in this area.

Discussion

Dr Bozzoli said that the question of unfunded mandates had been raised before by the Committee. The Department was receiving increased mandates without further funding. Various new areas had been transferred to the Department’s mandate, but problems were already showing. She had previously expressed her concerns about transferring Technical Vocational Education and Training (TVET) institutions to the Department on 1 April. She was concerned that these significant areas in education were being managed by an under-funded Department.

Mr Siwela asked what would happen to the Department's targets from this point. Would they be revised, or would they continue to be worked towards in this financial year? If the latter was the case, he asked when they would be achieved. In respect of Programme 1 (Administration), he asked what the role of the State Information Agency would be.

Ms Kilian said the Committee was concerned that only ten of the 43 targets set by the Department had been achieved. Despite the good reasons given, she was particularly concerned about Programmes 4 (Vocational and Continuing Education and Training) and 5 (Skills Development), and supported Dr Bozzoli's request for an update on the college sector. She asked which elements of the targets would have budgetary implications. She was concerned that it was unclear what to expect in terms of the budget. She asked how the Department planned to try and level out salary packages. It seemed as if the Department was like a bicycle rider going down a hill, and just trying to stay on top of the bicycle. The real impact of this transfer of functions was unknown, but this system could not be managed without funds.

Mr Cassim also drew attention to the transfer of TVET colleges to the Department’s mandate, supporting the proposals for a full presentation report on this function shift in particular. He questioned whether the Department had the capacity to manage these colleges. Many colleges he had visited lacked the managerial support needed to face the various challenges before them, which affected both the colleges and their students. He asked if the Department had the capacity to manage the more than 50 colleges across the country. What were the Department’s plans to fix the systemic problems outlined in the presentation? Many of the problems arose from a lack of concern on the part of the provincial departments since the function shift had been announced. With regard to artisan learners in particular, what was the plan to meet the expectations of young people through the rollout of this programme?

Mr Mbatha asked, in relation to Programme 2 (Human Resources Development, Planning and Monitoring Coordination), how the Department had manoeuvred their way around the labour relations issues it had identified. What had the Department been doing to keep harmony with the unionised labour force? One of the biggest nightmares of higher education was the roll out of TVET colleges, which he predicted would in the next two years represent the majority of higher education institutions. They could not be treated like universities, and he advised that the Department should pursue new relationships with, for example, provincial health departments and get them to build health centres next to TVET colleges. He raised concern about the risk of an explosion of HIV/AIDS at TVET colleges.

Ms S Mchunu (ANC) said that insufficient funding for higher education was a concern. She asked whether an interview had been conducted to replace the Deputy Director General for Skills Development, and if so, when the chosen candidate would be appointed. She asked about the impact of the Higher Education and Training HIV/AIDS Programme (HEAIDS) programme. She said that the area of research and skills development consistently failed to show a pleasing report, and suggested the Department and Director General should focus on this area. In terms of artisans, what was the Department’s response to those Sector Education and Training Authorities (SETA) who failed to provide the information required for their own admission.

Mr Kekana asked, in terms of Programme 1, whether the shortage of certificates was the fault of the Department. When on oversight visits, the Committee had heard that colleges often lacked certificates. He raised concern about the effect of the Department’s unmet targets on the vicious cycle of poverty and economic growth of South Africa. He asked how the TVET college system would be improved, because this was a big concern.

Department’s response

The Director General agreed that it was a good idea to put together a comprehensive report on the effect of the function shift, and undertook to create and submit such a report to the Committee. On the capacity of the Department generally, he said that effective structures were needed. In the TVET sphere, governance was the chief issue. To date, all colleges had councils in place which were trained, and were now merely being overseen by the Department. Basic minimum policies also needed to be in place. To date, 41 policies had been developed across the college sector. He had worked with the Auditor General to determine what internal controls were needed in terms of governance, and college councils. Some colleges did not even have full asset registers, which was a concern.

The majority of problems in the colleges were due to a backlog in disciplinary processes. These were being looked into by the Department.

The Department had been rolling out a programme on HIV/AIDS at the university level, but this had been unavailable to TVET colleges previously. This programme was now being rolled out to TVET colleges, so that the country's youth could be supported on this issue.

Mr Patel said that an adjustment of the Department’s targets would be subject to a formal process involving the Minister and other parties. One of the reasons for moving Further Education and Training colleges to the Department was the inconsistency in the management of colleges across different provinces. In terms of labour relations, people newly transferred to the employ of the Department would come with the same conditions of service as previously, but these would need to be equalised over time. Funding problems arose from trying to get through the Mandating Committee of Cabinet, and collective bargaining issues. This was the cause of delays in getting funding. The issues around the harmonisation of labour relations included cost factors, problems that had arisen previously at the provincial level, and trying to please all employees. The issues with reporting were due to attempts by the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation to regulate the various departments.

Dr Bheki Mahlobo, Acting Deputy Director General in charge of Vocational and Continuing Education and Training, addressed the comment by Mr Cassim about the inability of the Department to respond to requests for support by college principals. He said that the Department had made every effort to support these requests, but the policy of the Department was to increase the capacity of principals to manage their own institutions, rather than holding their hands. Intervention by the Department should be the exception rather than the norm.

The Director General added that college management was to be supported and capacitated, not managed.

Mr Mvalo said that the Department was targeting specific gaps in the trades market. Those who were applying for testing often needed a closure of gaps in their skills set. He said that people were leaving the system, notably artisans and chief artisans.

Ms Lulama Mbobo, Deputy Director General in charge of Administration, said that the Department could not procure information technology (IT) services itself, as this was the role of the State Information Technology Agency (SITA). The appointment of the new Deputy Director General in charge of Skills had gone ahead, and was before the Cabinet.

Mr Patel added that, with the function shift of FET to TVET colleges, principals of colleges had either the same, or less, human resources responsibility as before. The high court had held that colleges must be monitored by their councils firstly, and failing that, the Minister. This was not the role of the Director General or his deputies.

Ms Diane Parker, Acting Deputy Director General in charge of the University Education Branch, said that HEAIDS had been extended to all colleges, due to increased funding from donors. However, the funding from global donors would end at the end of this year. The Department was working with the Departments of Social Development and Health to deal with this issue. It may be helpful, she suggested, for the Committee to invite the HEAIDS programme to present and report on it. One milestone was that 100 000 new students had been tested within six months last year, having come forward voluntarily.

Ms Kilian asked, in terms of Programme 2 (Human Resources Development, Planning and Monitoring Coordination), whether the policy and legislative matters were on track.

The Director General assured her that they were.

The Chairperson expressed the Committee’s general displeasure with the Department’s performance. Preparation for the function shifts now taking place should have been started when the President had founded the Department. She drew attention to the effect the Department’s failures would have on the National Development Plan. The white paper on this issue was at the implementation stage. The Committee was depending on the Department’s innovation in order not to fail the people of South Africa. The Committee had taken note of the new reporting guidelines by the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, and further said that these were preliminary.

There had been late submission of the first quarter report by the Department. She said that procrastination was the thief of time, and urged efficiency from all present, as this was required by the Constitution. She asked for full information, rather than preliminary reports in future. There was consensus among Members of the Committee that the Department should return to the Committee with a progress report on the function shift and the Sector Education and Training Authorities’ (SETA) landscape and skills shortages. These should be coupled with an implementation plan. She urged that all agreed targets should be timeously achieved and top management should strive for excellence. The Committee had done everything in its power to ensure an increased budget for the Department. Her concern was that the Department was not spending in line with the Treasury norm of 25% of their budget per quarter.

Mr Patel asked that, through the liaison officer, the schedule be looked at in line with the Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation’s (DPME’s) new general measures regarding reporting schedules.

The Chairperson said that the Committee would not.

Ms Kilian suggested that one reason the report had been called preliminary was because the DPME had not yet verified the figures.

The Chairperson said that, if education was not well funded, people from poor backgrounds would be unable to access education, and therefore not able to achieve. She suggested the Department would have to do more with less for the time being.

The Director General undertook to be guided by the National Development Plan, taking into account funding realities.

Progress Report on Migration of Adult Education and Training

Following a request by the Committee, the Department gave a presentation on the migration of Adult Education and Training to the DHET from the provincial governments. The focus of the presentation was on the migration of employees from the provincial payrolls to the national Persal automated payment system. Mr Patel sought particularly to explain why some employees had gone unpaid for up to three months in the past year. One of the main causes had been late or inaccurate employee information received from the provinces. Further problems had been caused by employees in Limpopo being promised a pay rise just before being transferred to the employ of the DHET, without any legal basis. The total cost of honouring this raise would have been R66 million, and it had therefore been impossible to do so.

Discussion

The Director General said that some spaza shops were better managed than some of the Adult Education and Training (AET) colleges with which the Department had worked.

The Chairperson reminded Members that this presentation had been requested when Members’ offices had been inundated with calls about unpaid salaries.

Dr Bozzoli said that it was depressing to hear about the challenges, and impressive to see how the Department was dealing with them. She said that reports by the Department now failed to mention universities, and was concerned that universities might be being sidelined in the light of the massive problems in other sectors.

Ms Kilian also congratulated the Department on managing the process remarkably well. She said that the harmonising of the conditions of service would be a massive challenge, and asked for the Committee to be informed about how the sector ran and what qualifications were required. She also asked if qualifications of people in the system were being verified. Regarding the lack of cooperation from provincial departments and MEC’s, she recommended that certain officials in certain provinces should be reported to the Public Service Commission for investigation. This was needed to stop the fraud and corruption endemic in other departments.

Ms Mchunu said that the function shift was never expected to be plain sailing. She asked how many educators had resigned from the employ of the Department due to the non-payment of salaries, what effect this had had on teaching and learning, and what plans were in place to fill these positions. She agreed with Ms Kilian that the harmonisation of conditions of service was crucial.

Mr Mbatha was also impressed with the presentation. He agreed that provincial MEC’s who had increased salaries six months before the transfer to the DHET should be attended to. This kind of activity could lead to the new employer being taken to the Bargaining Council. He suggested that agreement should be reached as to what students should expect when walking through the doors of a TVET college. He also suggested that the prices of courses should be regulated at this stage, to avoid certain councils opportunistically charging more.

Mr Kekana asked how central government control could be used when one wanted to change to a better system. Was there some kind of measure or recourse that could be taken to make measures move more efficiently, otherwise there would continue to be hiccups in the migration process?

The Director General responded that at AET and TVET colleges, the Department was addressing transitional challenges and matters, but that at universities there were no aspects of transition, only ordinary performance matters. This was why AET and TVET colleges received more attention. However, 57% of the Department’s budget of R32.8 billion went to universities. This sector was not neglected or sidelined by the Department.

Mr Patel suggested that delaying the transfer of colleges from provinces to the national Department would have led to problems. Now that the Department had the files, they could begin to check for those who did not meet the minimum qualifications for adult educators. He suggested that those who had been teaching for some time without appropriate qualifications might have to be given concessions.

In answer to Ms Mchunu, he said that there had been 150 resignations in the last three months out of a total of 18 000 adult educators. Most of these were for reasons other than non-payment of salaries.

In answer to Mr Mbatha, he said that the Department had a solid foundation for harmonising quality, etc. now that it controlled the budget and quality standards.

Ms Mbobo said that those who had resigned had been replaced immediately.

The Director General added that, while transferring these functions, the Department would be met with many disclaimers and excuses.

Mr Mbatha asked about the disciplinary process involving the Deputy Director of Finance at the Motheo TVET College, which had been taken over by the Department.

The Director General said that the disciplinary inquiry was quite advanced.

Adoption of Committee Minutes

At this point, the Chairperson had to leave, and Mr Kekana acted as Chairperson.

The minutes from the last meeting of the Committee were considered. Some minor corrections were proposed. Adoption was proposed by Mr Mbatha, and seconded by Mr Siwela.

The minutes were adopted.

Vote on Draft Report of the Committee

Mr Cassim said that, due to a lack of meaningful discussion on the specific issue, many of the Recommendations made by the Committee did not appear under that heading, but rather in the “Observations” section.

Mr Mbatha agreed, noting that the items under the “Recommendations” section carried more weight than those under the “Observations” section.

The Committee then proceeded to go through the various points that should be moved from Observations and Recommendations.

It was decided that the report would be subject to further amendments and considered by the Committee again next week.

The vote on the adoption of the draft report was postponed to next week.

The meeting was adjourned.