Annual Report: Department of Public Services and Administration; SITA

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Meeting report

Public Services and Administration Portfolio Committee

PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
13 November 2002
ANNUAL REPORT: DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICES AND ADMINISTRATION; SITA

Chairperson: Mr J Gomomo (ANC)

Documents handed out:
DPSA Annual Report 2001-2002
Presentation on SITA Annual Report

SUMMARY
The Department of Public Services and Administration briefed the Committee on their annual report. The State Information Technology also presented their annual report. Both outlined their activities for the past year, their objectives and programmes for the following year.

MINUTES
Annual Report of the Department of Public Services and Administration
Ms Engelbrecht and Mr Rapea, representing the Department, noted that DPSA has played a leading role in the Governance and Administration cluster with respect to the transformation process. The medium term objectives of the Department include developing appropriate policy frameworks and instruments for public service. Implementing initiatives to combat corruption in the public service. With respect to anti-corruption, the Department had established an anti-corruption unit in April 2001 and a strategy on anti-corruption was approved by Cabinet in January 2002. In their presentation the Department also referred to their employment equity figures, the skills development of employees broken down into different grades. They also outlined their expenditure for the 2001/2 financial year. (Please refer to the attached presentation)

Discussion

Mr LM Kgwele (ANC) commended the report as being comprehensive and noted that a great deal had been done by the Department that was admirable during the year. He felt that there was room for improvement in the Department's anti-corruption efforts. Mr Kgwele drew the Committee's attention to the target groups for employment and equity concerns listed in the report by the Department of Public Services and Administration. He noted that the Department had not reached their targets for the employment in these target groups and questioned the Department on what was being done about it.

Mr Rapea agreed with Members that employment equity is a serious concern. He drew the Committee's attention to the fact that although the Department did not reach their targets in 2002, everyone who left their position in the Department left to the public sector in South Africa and not to the private sector in South Africa or abroad. He concluded from this that members of his Department were being poached be other Departments. This is a loss of training but indeed a reflection on the standard that is kept in the Department.

Mr M R Baloyi (ANC) enquired about the nature of partnerships undertaken by the DPSA.

In response to Mr Baloyi's question on the partnerships entered into by DPSA, he explained that the Department wets the appetites of the provinces, and the onus is on the provinces to seek the DPSA's aid to help them improve service delivery. He lamented the fact that the Department does not have the same option open to them as the National Treasury has in terms of Section 100 of the Constitution, detailing the right to intervene in provincial matters. Unfortunately all the DPSA can ask for are reports detailing service delivery progress.

Given these restrictions, the Department is trying to reform their efforts in a restructuring plan. Mr Rapea responded to the rest of Prince Zulu's concerns by explaining that the restructuring program is not a short program. It is a four-year initiative. Falling under this restructuring plan are many current problems experienced by the Department, including grant reception. He elaborated by saying that grant money was not reaching the desired destination due to the recipients not knowing where to go to get the payout of the grant. On the question of sick leave, he proposed that leave should be audited.

Prince Zulu (IFP) asked about the 'brain drain' that South Africa has been experiencing and the effect that this has on the target groups mentioned in the Department's focus on employment and equity. He wondered if the brain drain was not responsible for the unsuccessful attempts to achieve the desired quotas mentioned in the report under review. Other concerns Prince Zulu had at this juncture included the Department's restructuring program and the format that such a program has been given, as well as the format of the new leave system that the Department has implemented.

The Department then responded to the questions raised by Members. He commented on Prince Zulu's question regarding the 'brain drain' and said that since it is just a matter of inter-departmental transfer and not immigration, that the brain drain did not have much effect in his Department.

Mr M Waters (DP) then brought up the problem of enforcing regulations in the Department. He cited examples, including the verification of qualifications and the completion of asset registers by the senior management. He asked the Department whether there is a culture of compliance in the Department and if not, what could be done to bring about such a culture with respect to departmental regulations. Mr Waters extended the question posed by Prince Zulu before him regarding sick leave. He asked how this new system is coping, mentioning to the Committee that R20 billion a year is lost due to sick leave. He further enquired over the Anti-Corruption Unit, following on from the point raised by Mr L M Kgwele. His question focussed more specifically on when the program is envisioned to come to fruition.

Mr Rapea told the Committee that there will be meetings during December to discuss strategies on how to keep people in the Department. As a start to discussing a problem, these meetings should take into account that it is not the money involved in employment that contributes towards employees leaving, but rather the lure of a change in environment.

In response to Mr Waters' questions, Mr Rapea acknowledged that verification of qualifications of employees by the Department is a priority. During interviews for senior management, a certificate of qualification is compulsory. Any questions emerging from the study of these certificates are posed telephonically to the appropriate institutions and people. He noted that this process applies mainly to senior management positions and proposed that they be applied to less senior positions.

In response to Mr Waters' question surrounding the completion of asset registers, he explained that this process was confidential and therefore could not be analysed for compliance by senior management.

Mr Rapea explained that the old system used to depend on the number of years the recipient of sick leave had been with the Department. This resulted in a large number of days being applied for sick leave. The new system decreases the amount of days allowed for application. The Department now needs to evaluate how this new system has worked. He proposed that a complimentary effort would be to devise a 'wellness' program that might further decrease the number of days of sick leave applied for. Such a program might involve ways to alleviate stress. In addition, he observed that disability leave needs clarification. For example, a person who has undergone a heart bypass operation needs disability leave. The big question for clarification in this regard would be how long this disability leave would need to be. The final question by Mr Waters concerned the Anti-Corruption Forum and the progress this has made. Mr Rapea admitted that this forum was not working the way that the Department would like it to work. The relationship between the Government, business and civil society definitely needs improvement. Reports on the Anti-Corruption Forum need to be handed in and analysed. The organisation is in its formative stages.

Ms L Maloney (ANC) reiterated that previous questions concerning the numbers of people leaving posts in the Department, and questioned further hat approaches were being taken to keep trained employees inside the Department.


Mr Rapea mentioned that there are strategies to keep trained individuals in the Department after training. One such strategy was to make individuals work for the Department for a month for every R5000 spent on them for training.

Mr B Bell (DP) raised a number of concerns. The first issue concerned the verification of qualifications issue brought up in the previous set of questions. He wondered whether the Defence Force or SAPS were expected to comply with Department regulations. He then followed up on the questions already raised on the Anti-Corruption Forum. Had there been any report presented on this program. He observed that the Audit Committee had not submitted to the Department, and he wanted to know why. He explained that the Chief Internal Auditor of the Department complained about the lack of experience in auditing of people working under him. He asked whether it was not this that was the problem behind no reports being submitted for scrutiny by the Department.

Lastly, Mr Bell was concerned about the number of senior managers entering and leaving the Department. He observed that in the Annual Report it showed that nine senior managers entered into the Department, with four of them leaving. He wondered whether this caused instability in the DPSA and whether or not the Department could address this instability.

In reply to Mr Bell, Mr Rapea started with the issue of the verification of qualifications. He said that the SAPS and Defence force was subject to Department regulations, but there were inefficiencies in the process. He commented on the Anti-Corruption Unit, noting that the report on this unit is expected in the first half of next year. On the lack of expertise of the auditing staff and the lack of a report from this sector of employment, he assured the Committee that this state of affairs in this sector of the Department is not an issue to be overly concerned about. He pointed out that the Department's efforts in trying to work with external bodies to get the situation corrected.

On the issue of senior management, he apologised to the Committee about the format of the statistics in the final report and warned against any false impressions that these statistics may give. The statistics surrounding senior managers included transfers in and out of all senior managers combined. The turnover of senior managers in the Department is between 14% and 15%. One can deduce that managers move around, but this trend is less than that observed by the norm in other departments. The movement display by the statistics signifies movements of senior management within Departments.

Dr B G Mbulawa-Hans (ANC) commented on the Annual Report from the point of view of a medical doctor. She agreed whole-heartedly with the 'wellness' program suggested by Mr Rapea. However, she was most concerned about the Project Team set up to address HIV. No time frames have been given to the project team. She suggested that the Committee take a serious interest in the issues that the project team would look into. She also noted that while this was not the time to discuss budgets, the Committee should take note of the budget given to this team in the future, and stressed that the budget must be looked carefully into. She lastly enquired over the IPSP and how it can assist the provinces.

Mr Rapea reiterated his point about the Department going where it is wanted, and that the service it provides is open to anyone who wants it. This means that the Department does not go where it is not wanted. The provinces determine where the priorities are in their area and they choose their area of focus.

Presentation by SITA
Mr Ken Modise, CEO, State Information Technology Agency, presented an overview of the SITA Annual Report. The functions of SITA include providing information technology planning and advice, promoting the use of information technology to improve service delivery and providing research and a centre of excellence on electronic government. Mr Modise outlined the organisational structure of SITA and the operating model focus. He noted that SITA's market profile has improved in the last year. Their achievements included implementing a process of ensuring that all participating government departments are certified and assisting the DPSA to establish the Centre for Public Service Innovation. (Please refer to the attached presentation)

Discussion

Prince Zulu stated that SITA envisioned an administration system for municipalities. He wondered what SITA's proposals were for the improvement of administration in local governments. The second part of Prince Zulu's question enquired after details of SITA's 'Master Plan'.

Mr Modise first dealt with the issue regarding the administration system that municipalities have and the improvements that are being looked into these systems. He explained that the local governments have their own system and that it wasn't simply a case of taking one system that works and placing all the provinces on that system. Each province has its own unique set of problem areas that need to be dealt with by unique systems of their own. He went on to mention three costs typically associated with an administration system. These costs were costs for maintenance, human capital, and coordination or structure. Mr Modise stated to the committee that a Pilate program was under way, currently assisted by a Belgium company, with a focus on local authorities. He said that these issues were going to be studied in this Pilate program.

With respect to SITA's 'Master Plan', Mr Modise said that the focus in DPSA is on how technology assists a well thought out plan, and not the other way around. There is a need to support a Department effectively, so a technology plan needs to run with the business plan.

Mr Bell was deeply concerned over the computer literacy problem South Africa is experiencing at the moment. He spoke of his visits to the rural area branches of the SAPS and was shocked to discover that the employees did not use computers, and preferred typed or written notes.

Mr Modise acknowledged Mr Bell's point concerning computer literacy, and agreed that the biggest challenge for SAPS is to extend literacy, and not just technology. If the rural areas had all the latest updated technology without knowing how to use it, it would be pointless. He explained that public workers are uncomfortable with sharing information, and prefer to keep their own records on paper knowing that the information is kept safe.

Ms Maloney asked if the SITA Act needed an amendment for the Gateway project, and if so, if the Committee could look into a possible amendment.

Mr Modise assured her that no such amendment would be needed.

Mr Kgwele questioned SITA on their possible objectives of either privatising or restructuring.

Mr Kgwele noted that the goals of affirmative action and equality on the basis of race have been well accounted for in SITA's annual report. He wanted to know from SITA what their position was on equity between people on the basis of ability and associated disability. Previously disadvantaged people alone cannot solely benefit from the principles of equality and dignity propounded by SITA.

In addressing Mr Kgwele's question on whether SITA was privatising or restructuring, Mr Modise told the Committee that SITA's core business is the important thing, for example government procurement. Everything that is not in the core of SITA's business is outsourced.

The question posed by Mr Kgwele on SITA's treatment of people with disabilities was answered by Ms Engelbrecht (DPSA). Ms Engelbrecht told the Committee that 2% is the goal set by the Labour Relations Act, but the Department has not been able to get the numbers much past 1, 4%.

Mr Gomomo concluded with a few general points. He pointed out that the initial plan of a local department has an effect on government spending and trends. He emphasised the absolute need of any Department to have a set plan, which is informed. If what is needed in a rural area is water, and the Department spends large amounts of money on a housing project, the plan of the Department is not informed or connected to grass roots level needs of the community. Having a good plan that is connected to these needs will save time, effort and money.

The meeting was adjourned.

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